Pictures please: Exterior electrical boxes

We had a post a little while back about one of the reasons we see so many leaky condos around here: Improper installation of the wrong electrical boxes on exterior walls.

Robert Funk has sent in an updated informational PDF showing a simplified view of the right and wrong electrical boxes for exterior use.

And now he’s requesting pictures of any electrical boxes on exterior walls before lights or plugs are installed. If you can get any shots from construction projects around you he would very much appreciate them before Monday Aug 27th.

Here’s an example of an electrical box installed on an external wall:

The shots he’s requesting are closeup of those installations:

All shots showing how many different ways there are to install electrical boxes are useful:

Roberts says:

Even if the stucco, siding, lights and plugs are installed. I just need as many pictures from across Canada and as fast as I can get them.

For years I have been pushing to get the illegal electrical plates off of the market because of the damage that I see.

It was easy to blame these products because they are un-certified. After hundreds of emails and digging deeper into the problem I have come to the root of the problem.

Necessity is the mother of invention and now I understand why these products were introduced to the market and why they were accepted in the first place.

28 years ago the owner of a siding company in Vancouver was sick of trying to install siding around lights and make the installation look good. First he started to take plywood squares, cut circles in them and install Jay-Channels around them.

This was a great fix, the light sat flat and the siding or stucco had a good termination point. Builders liked this idea so much that he ended up with 2 full time employees just making the parts. This gave him an idea and off to the patent office he went. Next to find a tool maker and voila you have a plastic product. He did do his due diligence and went to see a consultant at the Richmond CSA office.

The consultant said that there was not really a standard (CSA C22.2 No.18.2-1987) developed yet for that particular type of product. The law states that if there is a clear and determinable need for a product and no other certified products exist then the next closest product may be used. For 28 years his product has been the industry standard and thereby is Grandfathered, not as a certified product but, the next best thing.
Codes and standards change but no standard has been developed around or for these products. What has changed is the Electrical code, from allowing Type 1 boxes to being used on the exterior walls, to Type 4 boxes being used. There was a need for the code to change so it did change but was never enforced.

Over the years several other companies have come out with cheaper and cheaper products, this combined with Type 1 boxes being installed, is one of the factors in causing damage to buildings.

The real blame falls on the root of the problem, enforcement of the Code. Several Municipalities and Provinces have come back and stated that they don’t think this problem exists in their jurisdiction but will look into it.

Let’s help them look into it, I drove around Vancouver, Burnaby, Surrey and Langley on the weekend to take some pictures and all I saw was Type 1 boxes. I could tell that several of the builders had struggled to make the boxes work. Some didn’t look to bad, still illegal and only a hand full were done well.

So let’s start with the basics, I want as many people across Canada as possible to take pictures of new construction installations and send them to me. Just tell me what city they are coming from. We are so close to solving this problem that I can taste it and soon it won’t taste like rotten wood anymore

Here’s a PDF with the picture request and email address for pictures. Pass this around if you could, I need the pictures by Monday 27, 2012 or sooner. Cheers

Robert

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AfroFrancophone
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AfroFrancophone

What does Robert needs those pictures for? BTW, never a good idea to publish an email on the open like that. Spam robots are never far away…

Bull! Bull! Bull!
Guest
Bull! Bull! Bull!

First it’s the Olympic Village, and now Leaky Condos? Good job staying current.

Let’s hear more about judgement day for speculators and debters. Tell me how prices are collapsing, and sinners are being cast out of their homes. Oh, that’s right. Everything is chugging along in the market. As usual.

Mick Murphy
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Mick Murphy
Robert Funk
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Robert Funk

I want/need the pictures of outside boxes because several districts have said that all the boxes installed in their area are done properly. Or maybe I just like looking at things that are done wrong.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

If these electrical boxes are made in China they’ll likely catch fire at some point.

That would solve the leaking problem quickly.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I talked yesterday with a contractor who claims to have studied moisture problems in depth in order to design new zero-energy types of houses. Acoording to him, part of the leeky condo problems in an overuse of vapour barriers. buildings can be too air-tight and moisture is trapped in the walls. A real issue in high humidity climates.

By the way, he also mentioned he does not understand how some contractors are allowed to use material containing high levels of formaldehyde to build inside parts of houses, like floors and stairs, and that he would not live in a newly built condo, especially with children.

Finally, he mentioned that LEED technology is still at its beginning and requires a very high level of maintenance, and therefore he would not buy a condo in the Village at False Creek.

Bull! Bull! Bull!
Guest
Bull! Bull! Bull!

@Anonymous: Of course. Your damp, moldy, east van basement suite (aka bear cave) is the best place to live. You made the right choice. Good for you.

Legacy
Guest
Legacy

@Bull! Bull! Bull!: I used to live in a basement suite when I was in college. Fortunately it wasn’t damp or moldy, but it was too dark for my taste and I didn’t like someone living upstairs from me.

So the next place I rented was the main floor of a house, and guess who lived in the basement?

The owner.

If that’s what it takes to buy a house in Vancouver the trolls can have it.

Anonymous
Guest
Anonymous

I can’t believe it’s 2012 and we still haven’t solved the leaky condo problem or sold all of the Olympic Village condos. What a sluggish town.

FlipFlop
Guest
FlipFlop

@ Bull Bull Bull

What would be your recommendation for a current renter that has a sizable DP and wants to own?

Buy now or wait?

Just curious.

Bull! Bull! Bull!
Guest
Bull! Bull! Bull!

@FlipFlop: Do whatever you feel is natural for you. For bears, this means staying in your underworld abode.

Bears live in caves. It would be foolish for me to take an animal out of it’s environment.

If I told you to fly high like an eagle, at the first slight gust of wind you’d get scared of the heights and fall to earth. Then you’d blame me for the ‘bad’ advice. Despite the fact that all the other eagles are flying high and have been for a decade.

You’re a bear, so stay in your cave.

Dear bear,

how’s the view down there?

Your’s truly,
eagle.

patriotz
Member
@Mick Murphy: The first part was OK, then he started drinking the Kool-Aid: Vancouver’s mild climate and progressive green government make this city a magnet for many Canadians who endure frigid winters in 95% of the country. Demand, in other words, isn’t going away. Canada doesn’t have a lot of temperate areas that are attractive to aging Boomers. Hello? The article starts off describing all the people moving out and how unaffordable it is, then talks about the city being a “magnet” for the rest of the country? How on earth is a boomer from outside the city going to be able to afford to retire in Vancouver? The migration statistics speak for themselves. He is also apparently ignorant of the major bust going on now in BC’s true retirement destinations, the Island and the Okanagan, despite their never getting… Read more »
jesse
Member

I’m going to keep beating this price-rent horse. Spectrum 1 unit going for 253 price-monthly-rent.

Please feel free to post other examples. These types of units will be interesting to track in the next few years.

Dan in Calgary
Guest
Dan in Calgary

@Bull! Bull! Bull! Says: “Dear bear, how’s the view down there? Your’s truly, eagle.”

You can’t spell so I’m not sure you’re literate enough to get this, but you remind me more of Icarus than an “eagle”. If it’s any consolation, Icarus soared higher than eagles.

AfroFrancophone
Guest
AfroFrancophone

@Mick Murphy: That yankee doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

“As long as the Canadian economy remains strong, the demand for Vancouver housing isn’t going away.

Yes, you could certainly argue that the good-winter-weather attraction also applies to places like Florida and Arizona, where there have been major housing crashes.

But there are significant differences in our two countries, especially in mortgage lending.”

Well, Florida and Canada both have recourse mortgages. Florida was ground zero of the RE crash in the US.

So no, it’s NOT different here.

ArthurFonzarelli
Guest
ArthurFonzarelli

We have decided, again, not to buy this year. Been the same since 2007. But we are going to move to either Bowen Island or Squamish to rent while the wee ones are still at home. Looking at a nice place on Bowen that was just taken off the market – absolutely gorgeous house listed at $599K that is renting for $1800. By my math that’s a monthly price:rent of 333 or 27.7 annualized.

What’s considered relatively “normal”?

EastVan
Guest
EastVan

Was anyone else contacted by a firm conducting a survey for CMHC? They called me yesterday and wanted to know if I owned a condo, and how many condos I owned. Since they only wanted to speak to people who owned condos, I declined, but sounds like CMHC wants to learn how many people own more than one condo…

jesse
Member

http://www.moneyville.ca/article/1241845–rbc-offers-45-000-for-mistake-if-client-leaves-in-31-days-roseman
Take your mortgage elsewhere, RBC tells customer

A bit of a rambling post, but still interesting to see what happens when baby doesn’t get his bottle.

jesse
Member
gordholio
Member

bullsh*t bullsh*t bullsh*t: Time for you to leave 2010, when *some* of what you spew may have been partially legit, and step forward two years into 2012 – the Crash Zone. It’s done, it’s over, the bubble/zeppelin is belching flames, and the devestation has already commenced.

Not even the RE-funded MSM slimes can spin this one. Your attemtps to do so look even more pathetic.

Fly high like an eagle, implode like the Hindenburg.

Simple
Guest
Simple

@Bull! Bull! Bull!:

“Bears live in caves. It would be foolish for me to take an animal out of it’s environment.”

I would remind you that bulls live in pens, knee deep in their own shit and are eventually led to the slaughter house.

Where the hell did you come up with that bear = bear but bull = eagle analogy anyway?

Patiently Waiting
Member
Patiently Waiting
@Mick Murphy: “For one thing, this city’s seen, and is still seeing, a huge wave of cash coming in from China, boosting home values. While it’s true this makes B.C.’s housing market reliant on the Chinese economy, many of those homes bought by Chinese were bought with hard cash, not highly leveraged, U.S.-style funny money (subprime loans, etc.). Plus, Canadian banks have much stricter lending standards than their U.S. counterparts. Also, many of the homes bought by Chinese immigrants here are second homes. “They’re insurance policies for wealthy Chinese in case things in China turn south,” a Vancouver realtor told me recently. “Some of them are vacation homes, and sit empty. They’re seen as insurance policies for a rainy day.” He should know better than talk to a local realwhore. Its the weakest sellers, not the strongest, who take the… Read more »
jesse
Member

@Patiently Waiting: ” And how does he know so many HAM bought with cash?”

Because everyone knows that rich people are rich!

Rich people buy expensive things. Vancouver is expensive. Therefore rich people buy Vancouver. Sounds legit.

Girlbear
Guest
Girlbear

Ben Rabidoux talking about the so-called “balanced market” in Canadian RE…

http://theeconomicanalyst.com/content/balanced-market-nonsense

registered
Member
registered

@7 Bull! Bull! Bull!: Seek professional help.

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