Pictures please: Exterior electrical boxes

We had a post a little while back about one of the reasons we see so many leaky condos around here: Improper installation of the wrong electrical boxes on exterior walls.

Robert Funk has sent in an updated informational PDF showing a simplified view of the right and wrong electrical boxes for exterior use.

And now he’s requesting pictures of any electrical boxes on exterior walls before lights or plugs are installed. If you can get any shots from construction projects around you he would very much appreciate them before Monday Aug 27th.

Here’s an example of an electrical box installed on an external wall:

The shots he’s requesting are closeup of those installations:

All shots showing how many different ways there are to install electrical boxes are useful:

Roberts says:

Even if the stucco, siding, lights and plugs are installed. I just need as many pictures from across Canada and as fast as I can get them.

For years I have been pushing to get the illegal electrical plates off of the market because of the damage that I see.

It was easy to blame these products because they are un-certified. After hundreds of emails and digging deeper into the problem I have come to the root of the problem.

Necessity is the mother of invention and now I understand why these products were introduced to the market and why they were accepted in the first place.

28 years ago the owner of a siding company in Vancouver was sick of trying to install siding around lights and make the installation look good. First he started to take plywood squares, cut circles in them and install Jay-Channels around them.

This was a great fix, the light sat flat and the siding or stucco had a good termination point. Builders liked this idea so much that he ended up with 2 full time employees just making the parts. This gave him an idea and off to the patent office he went. Next to find a tool maker and voila you have a plastic product. He did do his due diligence and went to see a consultant at the Richmond CSA office.

The consultant said that there was not really a standard (CSA C22.2 No.18.2-1987) developed yet for that particular type of product. The law states that if there is a clear and determinable need for a product and no other certified products exist then the next closest product may be used. For 28 years his product has been the industry standard and thereby is Grandfathered, not as a certified product but, the next best thing.
Codes and standards change but no standard has been developed around or for these products. What has changed is the Electrical code, from allowing Type 1 boxes to being used on the exterior walls, to Type 4 boxes being used. There was a need for the code to change so it did change but was never enforced.

Over the years several other companies have come out with cheaper and cheaper products, this combined with Type 1 boxes being installed, is one of the factors in causing damage to buildings.

The real blame falls on the root of the problem, enforcement of the Code. Several Municipalities and Provinces have come back and stated that they don’t think this problem exists in their jurisdiction but will look into it.

Let’s help them look into it, I drove around Vancouver, Burnaby, Surrey and Langley on the weekend to take some pictures and all I saw was Type 1 boxes. I could tell that several of the builders had struggled to make the boxes work. Some didn’t look to bad, still illegal and only a hand full were done well.

So let’s start with the basics, I want as many people across Canada as possible to take pictures of new construction installations and send them to me. Just tell me what city they are coming from. We are so close to solving this problem that I can taste it and soon it won’t taste like rotten wood anymore

Here’s a PDF with the picture request and email address for pictures. Pass this around if you could, I need the pictures by Monday 27, 2012 or sooner. Cheers



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Robert Funk

Thank you to all who sent in pictures, even the dirty ones. 78 photos in all, 12 are usable but more than I was expecting.


@AfroFrancophone: The only thing people here need to do is stop complaining about voting moderation. Just because you are a “bear” does not mean we will agree with everything you say. Especially don’t complain about voting that happens in the first few minutes, who knows who’s pressing buttons. Take it or leave it, we’re not here to stroke your ego. People can agree and disagree with each other simultaneously on different issues, or even different aspects of the same issue.


I find the readers (and posters) on this blog are pretty educated on finance and economics, I was curious as to work experience and educational backgrounds of the posters – anyone want to volunteer their information? If so – please do.


@How much??:

I don’t know what HFHC covers, but I am sure it is probably Surrey and Langley. PaulB’s numbers are the ones that are more accurate for our purposes though, because they cover the REBGV’s numbers (the numbers everyone tracks when they refer to “Vancouver”). When people say “Vancouver is down 15%” it really means Richmond, Burnaby, etc.


@Ramaya: Your reaction tells more about you than it does about me. Did I hit a nerve?



Sorry, but folks are getting tired of you with all your scolding, calling people racist and other crap you talk here. Maybe you should go and post shit on Chinese forums, they will vote you up.


EA’s PopCap Games cuts jobs
The company eliminated 50 jobs in North America
fyi “PopCap Vancouver is located in a converted waterfront warehouse in the heart of Vancouver’s historic Gastown District.”



iPad seems to like the site better tonight.

Thx for all you do.




A lot of people on this site are bearish because, in general, they are adversive. That is to say, hey see the worst in many things. Their predominant experience is one of aversion. They don’t like Vancouver and at the same time, they do not like outsiders. They feel threatened by a wide range of things and they feel that many people are deserving of various negative outcomes. We also have a few goldbugs, anti-capitalists and so on. It comes with the territory.

How much??

Okay… Looking at HFHC and PaulB’s numbers here has me confused. If you figure out the difference between the two, you get something odd. The additional area that HFHC numbers capture would have a net of 42 listings and 58 sales today! So does this mean the outlying areas had a sell/list over 100%??? What additional areas are being captured with the larger numbers? Would love to know which suburbs are this crazy hot/delusional.


I got voted into foreclosure today because I disagreed with a guy who wanted to strip new canadians from their citizenship if they don’t buy homes AND live here, so the country doesn’t turn into an insurance policy for ‘foreigners’. My point was that arbitrage is a direct consequence of free market capitalism. And Canada could not ban ‘foreigners’ (read, new canadians) and at the same time allow ‘true’ canadians to keep their citizenship after they retire in Costa Rica, the Carribean or in the USA. Because this, too, is arbitrage at work. Quite a few people seemed to disagree with me, because I dared to voice an opinion at odds with what seems to be the general consensus on this site. And the funny thing is I am a bear myself. So, what does this say about the people… Read more »


Copied from PaulB’s number Date Listing Sales S/L Price(+-) Inv Inv(+-) Aug-01 258 61 23.6 99 18,708 Aug-02 182 49 26.9 114 18,740 32 Aug-03 202 93 46.0 92 18,799 59 Aug-06 0 0 0 0 - Aug-07 232 113 48.7 128 18,784 -15 Aug-08 210 49 23.3 105 18,851 67 Aug-09 195 120 61.5 119 18,816 -35 Aug-10 169 96 56.8 118 18,806 -10 Aug-13 206 103 50.0 124 18,788 -18 Aug-14 239 97 40.6 125 18,811 23 Aug-15 175 53 30.3 110 18,826 15 Aug-16 183 76 41.5 91 18,792 -34 Aug-17 169 59 34.9 86 18,848 56 Aug-20 245 85 34.7 126 18,875 27 Aug-21 206 63 30.6 114 18,925 50 Total-Cur 2,871 1,117 38.9 1,551 217 5-day avg 196 67 34.4 105 23 Total-EST 4,436 1,655 37.3 2,394 19,107 399 August numbers year sell list… Read more »


@jesse: “I’m going to keep beating this price-rent horse. Spectrum 1 unit going for 253”

Yes if they could get $1500 per month rent for a 1 bedroom on the 8th floor in Spectrum. Doubtful unless you bring in an undesirable tenant like a hooker. As an example here is a 1 bedroom in Spectrum with an ASKING rent of $1325 on the 21st floor.


Sorry so late!

New Listings 206
Price Changes 114
Sold Listings 63

Mid month office stats are up


“I have two master degrees, one of them in business/economics.”

having credetials and being sucessfull in life are two different things. some make good use of their education and turn it into profit. others, not so much; a bunch of student debt and bookworm! in your case, it’s the latter.

by the way, why are you so touchy today? it’s just a anomynous blog. why displayed somewhat persona in the blogworld.


@A voice of reason: Experience? You’re talking about a guy with no job.


What if a third button was added called “Troll”. If the Troll button gets ten hits, the comment is foreclosed. If we agree with the comment we vote up and if we disagree with the content, but the comment is not a troll, we vote down.

A voice of reason

@Best place on meth: From your post I can tell that you have experience with the collective bargaining process. I hereby nominate you to be our rep an tell the bulls what what. Preferably suggesting they insert some sort of object in an orifice.


There were too many sales today, i’m glad Paulb was too upset to post the numbers.


As a bear i am kind of sensitive and easily disturbed. I find reading bull posts upsetting. I want my little space in the sun.

Best place on meth

@A voice of reason:

I think the trolls should form a union if they feel they’re being mistreated.

Then they can appoint a representative to present a list of demands and we can appoint a representative to tell their representative to fuck off.

Then they can go on strike.


asking 15.9M

sold for 12m again another large purchase


New Listings 248
Back On Market Listings 18
Price Changes 144
Sold Listings 121

ALL lowermainland

A voice of reason

I think we should introduce “troll Tuesday”. The idea is that Bears, Bulls, Gazelles or whatever you are; you spew garbage and all comments get voted down… Period. If someone says anything on point or poignant, well…. That’s a definite vote down! Should make for a quick and entertaining read… With a magnifying glass if you have one handy. Let’s get started right now by voting this baby down into oblivion!!


@dyugle: The problem with that is that comments get voted down, not because they are stupid or inappropriate etc., but because they don’t conform to the accepted worldview on this blog. There are people, such as myself, who thirst for a real forum where bulls and bears can meet and discuss issues seriously, and not get mocked or voted into “Foreclosure”, just because we dare disagree with you on something. VCI could be such a blog if it was differently set up and the whole Foreclosure thing removed. Voting up or down is fine, but obscuring those who disagree is not.