Close your eyes and load up on debt
This National Post commentary is one of the most direct attacks on Canadian personal debt levels I’ve seen in the mainstream media.
The takeaway is this: YOU are responsible for your own debts, don’t go whining to anyone if it gets you into trouble.
It’s mindboggling to think that an entire population can look at what happened in the US when personal debt levels got this high and shrug it off.
Analysts and economist are filled with forecasts of doom, and that was before the latest figures showed debt had continue to pile up over the past year to a record 163% of household income, which is where the U.S. was before the 2008 collapse, and about 10 points higher than anyone thought. As the housing market cools and home prices slip, a lot of people could find themselves making monthly payments they can barely cover for a house that isn’t worth what they thought it was. If you can’t cover the mortgage, you just have to pray the roof doesn’t start leaking or the furnace fail.
And borrowers won’t really have anyone to blame but themselves. The warnings are out there. The examples are rife: all anyone has to do is examine the experience of U.S. homeowners over the past few years. The dangers aren’t a secret, they’re just being ignored.
But people keep borrowing, because it makes them feel good to spend, because they’re too busy to think about it, because they figure they can cover the payments in the short term and will deal with the future when it comes. And because they can always blame it on someone else when the roof caves in.
Read the full article here.
October 29th, 2012 at 1:28 am 1
“It’s mindboggling to think that an entire population can look at what happened in the US when personal debt levels got this high and shrug it off.”
Because Canadian banks know they will get bailed out if housing market crash like in US.
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October 29th, 2012 at 3:36 am 2
This is how our earthquake was reported in China.
“Canada’s west coast rocked by 7.7 earthquake” – photo: “Ruins”
Not the best image for BPOE.
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:00 am 3
I wanted to take the opportunity to invite the VCI crew to a seminar I’ll be putting on in November:
http://realestate2013.ca/
A special invitation to the bulls, who will have an opportunity to publicly discredit the bear thesis during the Q&A session.
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:02 am 4
@VMD:
“photo: “Ruins””
They don’t look like Haida to me. But I guess the Chinese can’t tell the difference.
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:08 am 5
“The examples are rife: all anyone has to do is examine the experience of U.S. homeowners over the past few years. ”
So why didn’t the Cons start to restrict credit back in 2006 or 2007 and prevent this problem from happening in the first place?
The article completely ignores the fact that this massive rise in consumer debt was enabled by government loan guarantees.
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:26 am 6
Did the National Post say anything when the Conservatives injected steroids into the CMHC? Did they chide Carney on Zero interest rates? Did they complain about loose lending at the Canadian banks?
These things do not happen over-night. They develop gradually in response to a number of bad policy decisions, most of which the National Post was very happy with.
A bit late now isn’t it???
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:47 am 7
Why people are indebted up to their eyeballs?
Let me give you an example that demonstrates nicely.
Have you shopped for a bicycle lately? There are city bikes, hybrid bikes, road, touring, commuter, mountain, jumper, downhill, and oh yes, custom bikes too. Walk into any bike store. Bewildered by the colours and styles, you can easily drop $5,000 on two wheels. A cautious spender should do their research first!
But if you should ask in a biking forum how much you should spend on a bicycle for say, riding to work, you will soon find out that $500(!) buys you a “starter” bike that can be “upgraded” for a few more hundred dollars to a “reasonable level of performance”. You will be warned in no uncertain terms to never buy a $300 “department store” bike (Yes that includes Canadian Tire.) lest it fall apart on the way home. I won’t say how many pleasurable KMs both on and off road I’ve covered on my no-name made in China Walmart special. Which I bought for $60. Used.
I love bicycles, but they have become yet another instrument for marketers to extract every penny of disposable and borrowed income from hapless consumers.
We’ve been sucked in by “needs” like Iphones and Ipads. Apparently these premium priced Apple products are what we should have or what we should aspire to have. We believe it when a Future Shop rep tells us that a 50″ TV screen is the minimum size for an average living room.
We see real estate agents in Vancouver state that a $600,000 condo is a “starter home”. Yes, after buying this, we can immediately start looking for something a bit more well, substantial.
When my young kids (6-8 years old) started to watch TV, we would play a game called “What are they trying to sell me?” Highly recommended for adults too.
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October 29th, 2012 at 7:31 am 8
From the Sydney Morning Herald
Unconscionable tactics that soured investment property venture
http://tinyurl.com/9mfhvrk
“”This was a disaster and for the sake of my young family I need answers,” Bellamy later wrote to authorities, wanting to know how an investment that was meant to have paid itself off in just eight years went so wrong.”
(Coming soon to The Vancouver Sun.)
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 8:05 am 9
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October 29th, 2012 at 8:09 am 10
@Ben Rabidoux:
Hey Ben,
The seminar sounds awesome. Are there any plans to have a webcast?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 8:09 am 11
Finally someone in mainstream media puts the blame where it belongs (50% of it). I am tired of all the excuses and scapegoating that has been going on for years. If you took on more debt than you can handle, it’s your fucking fault! You are NOT a victim. So STFU!
Too bad, that this will mostly fall on deaf ears. In the end, it will be capitalism’s fault all the while the banks will be receiving taxpayers’ money to cover losses caused by their own stupidity.
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October 29th, 2012 at 8:14 am 12
Hapless consumers? No. Childish and stupid – yes.
Odd. I don’t have these “needs”…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 8:16 am 13
@patriotz: “The article completely ignores the fact that this massive rise in consumer debt was enabled by government loan guarantees.”
Sometimes people have to think for themselves and not depend on the government to do it for them. A new concept for you?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:05 am 14
Can someone make sense of this poorly written Vancouver Sun article?
“Fourteen per cent of all trips were taken on public transit in 2011, the highest proportion since TransLink began recording its trip diaries in 1994.
…
The proportion of transit and cycling trips grew faster than that of trips taken in cars, which grew slower than the population.
Cycling trips as a proportion increased 26 per cent, transit was up 17 per cent, walking increased by six per cent and car trips increased by four per cent. The population grew by six per cent.”
That last paragraph is a real stumper. How can the PROPORTIONS for ALL categories have increased??? As a PROPORTION OF ALL TRIPS, cycling is up 26%, transit is up 17%, walking is up 6% and car is up 4%. That just does not make sense. If the proportion of same categories is up then the proportion of other categories must be down. You cannot have a proportional increase in all categories of trips. The proportional increases in some categories have to come at the expense of other categories. These numbers only make sense if we are talking about absolutes, not proportions. It may be true that transit ridership is up, cycling is up, walking is up, and driving is up on an absolute basis if there are more total trips due to higher populations. But if we are talking about proportions, all categories of trips cannot have increased.
Am I missing something?
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/metro/Transit+continues+climb+Metro+Vancouver/7463693/story.html
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:07 am 15
From what I know from the Debt Crackheads I’ve enountered in the past 10 years, guaranteed they will deny all personal responsiblity when things go pear-shaped.
It’s going to be sob stories on the front pages of the Vancouver Sun, with a “Foreclosed” sign in the background of the 4 year old pressed sawdust monster house. And the media will eat it up because it makes for a compelling story for simple-minded people.
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:07 am 16
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:16 am 17
@patriotz: So why didn’t the Cons start to restrict credit back in 2006 or 2007 and prevent this problem from happening in the first place?
The article completely ignores the fact that this massive rise in consumer debt was enabled by government loan guarantees.
Enabled? It was absolutely, positively, deliberately created by them. Given the facts in evidence, I don’t see how anyone could conclude otherwise.
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:20 am 18
@Berniebee:
Debt-ridden family rises to the ’100 Thing Challenge’
Family heirlooms, bed frame purged in anti-consumerism effort
- For some over-extended families in the not too distant future, the “100 thing challenge” might become a need, not a choice..
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:24 am 19
Not sure if this forum has seen this interesting article that quantifies capital flight out of China:
“Astronomical sums of money are fleeing China at a much higher velocity than has previously been estimated, according to recent reports.
One report by Washington-based Global Financial Integrity estimates China suffered a net outflow of $472 billion last year, the equivalent of 8.3 per cent of gross domestic product.
Another report by the Hong Kong-based head of research for the Standard Chartered bank, Stephen Green, suggests at least $80 billion fled China in just the third quarter of this year.”
http://www.vancouversun.com/Business/asia-pacific/Waves+illegal+money+leaving+China/7461039/story.html
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:29 am 20
@Deliverator: Data shows that the bubble started forming in 2002 – 4 years before Cons came to power. (That does not mean that Cons are innocent – a lot of fuel has been added to the fire during their reign)
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:30 am 21
@Berniebee:
This link is related to your comment. Enjoy!
http://kentsbike.blogspot.ca/2012/09/so-i-went-automobile-shopping.html
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:37 am 22
@VMD
“Tired of being on the “status-quo, middle-class treadmill” of mindless consumption and mounting debt, the Glad-Timmonses undertook a project that most people would consider drastic: paring their worldly possessions down to 100 items…Included in the items Glad-Timmons and her husband either sold or gave away were cross-country skis, a handmade wooden chest that once belonged to her paternal grandfather and their bed frame. She and her husband now sleep on a mattress on the floor.”
I am all for ending “mindless consumption and mounting debt” and getting rid of cheap Made-in-China plastic crap from Wal-Mart, but I think this really is overkill. She got rid of a hand-made wooden chest that belonged to her grandfather! That sounds like a family heirloom, something with sentimental value, something one-of-a-kind with character as it was hand-made. Getting rid of something like that confuses the point this family is trying to make. The problem of mindless over-consumption is that we have so much crap that carries little personal meaning in our lives and that is made so cheaply it is almost meant to be disposable. We need to be able to distinguish between meaningless crap and stuff that carries intrinsic meaning and value. A hand-made wooden chest passed on through the generations belongs in the category of things that have intrinsic value and personal meaning.
Also, getting rid of the bed frame and having the mattress right on the floor is probably going too far as well.
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:48 am 23
@coc:
Don’t be a cock. It’s “Canadians on Credit”.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:56 am 24
@Anonymous #14:
Maybe the proportion of trips taken by yellow helicopter is down!
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October 29th, 2012 at 10:05 am 25
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October 29th, 2012 at 10:34 am 26
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October 29th, 2012 at 10:51 am 27
I spend a lot of time in the USA these days and here are two stories from Chicago….
The hotel manager told me that he bought a one level 2,100 sq ft condo for $375K in 2001, and by all accounts it is beautifully appointed with all the latest finishings etc., and in a desirable area. He tried listing it this year and the 3 x realtors he interviewed all came in at a starting price of $125K…ouch! He is staying put.
My taxi driver Juan, bought a triplex in downtown Los Angeles in 2003 for $325K and life was going great until the recession hit. Because the work situation in California is so bad he moved to Chicago and set up business. He tried to sell his triplex this year and the realtor suggested listing it at $125K. He is keeping the property in LA and supports it from Chicago. He says he works 7 days a week and a minimum of 14 hours per day and often 16-18 hours per day just to pay the bills. He says its not like Chicago is booming with biz, but it is way way better than California.
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:15 am 28
In the “asking price steep decline” category, here is a very serious candidate of “the most millions I have to give up to sell my property”…
4898 Fannin Ave, Vancouver, BC V6T 1B2: $4 million in asking price reduction since March (and still priced over assessed value!).
Greed will soon be replaced by fear in this case…
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:24 am 29
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:48 am 30
@Berniebee: Douchey casual riders spending thousands of dollars on bikes is one of the reasons bike theft is out of control. This effects us “cheap bike” owners because whole racks of bikes are stolen at once.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:54 am 31
Hong Kong imposes Tax on Foreign Property Buyers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-29/h-k-imposes-property-tax-on-non-locals-on-bubble-risks.html
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:58 am 32
some more stats on regional sales data in September.
note Avg Sold price / Listing price.
lowest was Richmond, Van West, West Van, and Whistler SFH, as espected.
also note Avg days on market.
http://www.westca.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=4478693/lang=schinese.html#4478693
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 12:03 pm 33
@Simple
No plans for a webcast at this point. Sorry. You not from Vancouver?
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October 29th, 2012 at 12:42 pm 34
@mike: Canada needs a similar law but the boys in Ottawa does not have the balls.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 12:51 pm 35
Realtors trying to sell condos in the Lower Mainland are getting creative…
“Don’t get caught with your pants down! Protect your home with our price drop guarantee! Call us for details. 604.988.3020!”
Check out the picture here.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:07 pm 36
@Makaya: Unfortunately it looks like previous buyers are naked from the waste down…
http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=12421260&PidKey=-1917434989
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:19 pm 37
@Ben Rabidoux:
“No plans for a webcast at this point. Sorry. You not from Vancouver?”
Yes. I am from Vancouver. However, like so many others, I could not afford to live there and relocated my small family to Toronto last fall.
I know that there are other VCI community members in the same boat and it would be great to have a chance to see your talk. If the webcast is a no-go, no problem. I am sure the talk will be discussed nicely here.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:24 pm 38
@Makaya: “…price drop guarantee!”
Finally, inadvertent truth in advertizing. Freudian slip?
If you buy this condo now, we guarantee that the resale price will drop by at least $100K.
What an opportunity! Where do I sign up? I’ve never lost $100K before.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:31 pm 39
Scams: And how many mainland Chinese buying site unseen will be scammed too? The smell of mold in leaky walls does not show on pictures.
Debts: the people I know who continue to borrow do it because they believe most people are more in debt than they are, therefore the government will do something to save the population. So they feel sheltered. Some others feel a depression is coming, so better enjoy life when we still can. Not to mention those getting ready for the end of the world (december 2012 is close).
Educating the kids: when we go shopping, we hunt for the marketing fairies that hide everywhere and whisper in our ears buy! buy! The kids are good at it by now. One of them made a show the other day that was making fun of commercials: he created his own lies. He kept saying ‘buying this will make you happy.’ He is 8.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:32 pm 40
@More Data Please: It’s more like we are guaranteeing a price drop for all the previous buyers.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:32 pm 41
@ YVR
Can you change your handle? Most people in this city aren’t as stupid as you are, so you’re not very representative of your moniker.
FWIW, I think he may have been trying to illustrate how extreme price drops can happen in the lower “entry level” price ranges, and the havoc they can wreak on peoples lives.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:41 pm 42
@Makaya: 700 Marine (just down the street from the Kimpton) is also offering discounts on unsold units of up to $75k. I checked their website and it appears that only 11 of 26 residential units have been sold. There is a ton of new supply in NV with many more coming online in the next year or so.
The Remix (beside 700 Marine) is now selling brand new (haven’t even torn down the existing buildings) condos at a price per square foot that is below those of neighbouring existing buildings. This will not end well for a lot of people.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm 43
@Anonymous:
“Sometimes people have to think for themselves and not depend on the government to do it for them. A new concept for you?”
Hardly, it’s what I’ve been saying on this forum for years. And doing myself.
You are peddling the same line as the article itself – that this mess was simply the result of irresponsible consumers rather than the outcome of a deliberate government strategy.
Governments have a responsibility to act in the best interests of all citizens, present and future, regardless of how responsible some of today’s citizens choose to be.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:45 pm 44
@Anonymous: “How can the PROPORTIONS for ALL categories have increased???”
The Vancouver Sun article is wrong when they use the term “proportion” for the increase. The % increases are for the number of absolute trips. So, car use is up 4% in absolute terms but down in porportion (since population increased by 6%).
The original press release form Translink (available on their website) makes this clear.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:55 pm 45
@No Money Down:
Whiney Aussie: ”This was a disaster and for the sake of my young family I need answers,”
OK here’s your answer. You’re a fool who thought he could get something for nothing by paying a ridiculous price for a RE investment, and you lost money, which is what happens when fools pay ridiculous prices for investments.
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October 29th, 2012 at 1:57 pm 46
Are you really that dumb? “Most people in this city aren’t as stupid as you are, so you’re not very representative of your moniker.”
You said most people in Van aren’t that stupid? If that is the truth then they would not bid up the prices to this level. Duhh
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 2:34 pm 47
@bubbly: The Cons added fuel to the fire with the US meltdown in full view. To me, that makes them especially culpable.
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October 29th, 2012 at 3:33 pm 48
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-29/h-k-imposes-property-tax-on-non-locals-on-bubble-risks.html
is this new tax rule going to drive even more HAM to vancouver?
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:00 pm 49
@Anonymous: Singapore, Australia, and now Hong Kong had passed laws to curb real estate speculation from foreigners, mainly to the Mainland Chinese. Wake up Canada before its too late. Write to Ottawa!
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:05 pm 50
@No Money Down: That’s the classic Caucasian On Credit mentality. Taking zero personal responsibility.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:05 pm 51
New Listings 168
Back On Market Listings 5
Price Changes 179
Sold Listings 144
looks like it will be a high sales day
keep in mind this is all lower mainland
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:24 pm 52
@HFHC: Have not seem price changes surpassing listings and sells. Must be the message is getting around.
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:40 pm 53
@Deliverator:
I’d go one step further and say that the lenders and Conservatives actions were predatorial on home buyers. Every conservative MP should loose their pension until the debt is paid back. And every lender should have to eat the first 20 percent of the loss rather than the taxpayer.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:41 pm 54
@HFHC:
I’m betting those sales are all for big discounts.
Remember, it takes sales to bring averages down
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:47 pm 55
@No Money Down: That’s the classic Caucasian On Credit mentality. Taking zero personal responsibility.
______________
Yup…just look at those pictures of lineups for the release of the new iphone or tablet…ooops…sorry…I forgot it is always the other version of “Caucasians on Credit”
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:47 pm 56
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:52 pm 57
@boogeybear: “Every conservative MP should loose their pension until the debt is paid back.”
Or better yet, force them to sell their tinfoil hats and return the crop circle and cattle mutilation implements.
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October 29th, 2012 at 4:58 pm 58
a realtor “friend” just posted this on facebook wall
“Some Great News from our neighbors down south which will impact Vancouver Real Estate in the months to come:”
with this link
http://money.cnn.com/2012/10/24/real_estate/new-home-sales/index.html?section=money_realestate&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=linkedin&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fmoney_realestate+%28Real+Estate%29
Really? we follow the states lead?? hasn’t felt that way in the last 6 years
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:03 pm 59
New Listings 163
Price Changes 170
Sold Listings 143
TI:18743
http://www.paulboenisch.com
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:07 pm 60
@Anonymous:
“Singapore, Australia, and now Hong Kong had passed laws to curb real estate speculation from foreigners”
All of the above have government policies which deliberately inflate the price of RE. That’s the real problem, not foreigners, and that goes for Canada too.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:10 pm 61
@Anonymous:
“Some Great News from our neighbors down south”
Great news indeed – it took a drop down to 1/2 of Canada’s current prices for the US to hit bottom.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:12 pm 62
Asians are great at saving and entrepreneurial ventures.
But when it comes to RE, they become brainless zombies.
Must buy, must buy! At all costs.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:20 pm 63
i want to unlike Paulb’s post but I would never do that to him
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:35 pm 64
@VMD:
Thanks VMD great info. It’s too bad that they lump Squamish in with Whistler though. They are obviously two separate markets with different dynamics and an average price will not be reflective of either market.
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:35 pm 65
@Simple
I’ll look into the possibility of a webcast. I’d also love to do seminars in Toronto, Ottawa, and Montreal….as the extreme weakness in the latter two markets should go mainstream in early 2013. Maybe one of those might work better.
We’ll see how this one goes…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:38 pm 66
kansai92: “But when it comes to RE, they become brainless zombies.
Must buy, must buy! At all costs.”
i did not know that 70% of households that own in Canada are Asian!! Who knew.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:40 pm 67
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October 29th, 2012 at 5:53 pm 68
@ bull bull bull
except this time the government is out of bullets.
drop lending requirements again, people will choke on debt within a year and collapse the economy more when it comes time to pay back.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:02 pm 69
@Take A Gander:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XQQm7h1GAwE
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:13 pm 70
LOL Coc’s in the IPhone lineups…
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:26 pm 71
@Ben Rabidoux:
Sounds great Ben. Why let Garth present your material when you can do it yourself.
I’ve signed up.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:32 pm 72
I still laugh whenever I read of CoC’s on this board.
So sad but so true. I’m caucasian, and thinking of escaping North America sometime in the next 10 years to avoid the unfunded liability crisis that is going to hit when CoC’s get off their credit fix and start going into convulsions.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:41 pm 73
900kCrackHouse ” thinking of escaping North America sometime ”
where you are going? it is the same everywhere more or less…you just have to turn off your TV and pick wisely your circle of friends and you will avoid all consumer porn
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:48 pm 74
Just had another disagreement with a roomie here in Calgary about the Van Re market. He owns a home in Coquitlam. Doesn’t see any correction happening there. Did I tell you that he can’t find any work there as an architect and that’s why he came to Calgary? Told him I was willing to bet money it corrects more than 25%. He says no….I said I’d make a wager to say that it’ll happen at least that much over the next two years and if I’m wrong I’d pay him. Wouldn’t go for it.
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October 29th, 2012 at 6:56 pm 75
The other night, I went to a highschool unofficial reunion get-together. Thanks to social media, way more people showed up then expected.
Including some we didn’t really know.
One guy walked around the room (dressed all businesslike with a big smile), polling everyone on whether they were married and had kids. Then he said he has a big suburban house, two kids, and all the middle class toys. I thought “Yeah, good for you, buddy. We probably never had one conversation in highschool and now you care about my family life for some reason.”
I didn’t stick around near enough to hear what he did for a living. Next day, I looked him up online. Ah yes, a mortgage broker. LOL.
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October 29th, 2012 at 7:00 pm 76
@sickooo: Brazil or Chile… Chile especially has a low tax, low debt structure are are well setup for future success. They don’t have the problems of an aging population and you would surprised what the take-home pay of an educated professional is in some of these countries. After tax income can be often higher or much higher than here. Especially if compared with Vancouver.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 7:01 pm 77
Here’s another beauty. Most of us know that deflation isn’t what’ll get us. At least not if the governments and those that control the money flow have their way. We know that by the so-called “quantitative easing” approach. I went to what can be considered one of the cheapest grocery stores here in Calgary to buy a couple things. I bought 4 potatoes and the smallest bottle of liquid washer detergent I could find on the rack. 9 Bucks…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 7:24 pm 78
@900kCrackHouse
did you travel there to have a feel for it?
i was in Buenos Aires 12 years ago and liked the lifestyle very much. but i have already established business here so it is hard to just leave everything and go. but as soon as i retire, and i am planning retiring in 55 i would consider moving somewhere south.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 7:35 pm 79
@sickooo: Yes – I have visited virtually every South American country except Colombia. I fell in love with Argentina as well when I was there. It would be a fabulous place to retire.
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October 29th, 2012 at 7:43 pm 80
“Why let Garth present your material when you can do it yourself”
speaking of, why pay Garth to be your investment adviser when all he does is buy ETFs and bank preferred shares??….talk about an easy portfolio, can’t believe anyone would pay him 1% on top of the associated MERs
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:38 pm 81
@Ben Rabidoux: You could look into Google+ for the webcast. Their hangouts are really slick and its simple to use – no software to install or anything. Anyone with a Google account (i.e. Gmail account) can view. I use it all the time.
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:40 pm 82
c’mon you pussies, CoC really does mean Caucasians on Credit. It’s funny cause its true!
And HAM, it means recently arrived Chinese with more money than brains (earned through ill-gotten gains) throwing it around on real estate like drunken sailors. Paying for one Baby Boomer pension at a time with each house purchase. The whining CoCs will look back one day (after the melt down) and all wish the HAMers were back in town.
What’s the point of having a bulletin board-style blog with anonymous names if you can’t throw some condescending stereotypes around (which happen to have a ring of truth)!!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:53 pm 83
@604x: “c’mon you pussies, CoC really does mean Caucasians on Credit. It’s funny cause its true!”
I’m white and my brother in law is asian. I was born outside Canada, he was born in Canada. I rent, he owns. I could live for several years without working on my savings and investments. He’s been using his HELOC to pay the monthly bills.
To me, CoC = Canadians on Credit. My family illustrates this point quite vividly.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:57 pm 84
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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October 29th, 2012 at 9:57 pm 85
An earthquake with magnitude 6.2 occurred near Prince Rupert, BC, Canada at 02:49:02.70 UTC on Oct 30, 2012
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October 29th, 2012 at 10:22 pm 86
@UnagiDon:
TRUE. At my workplace most of the people own their houses. It’s including a lot of Chinese (born in China and Canada), Philippines, Iranians, Russians, British, etc. All of them bought houses with credit. Most of them still carrying a huge debt. I rent and don’t have any debt. And I’m Caucasian.
So, it’s not about skin colour. It’s about average Canadian who can’t stop spending and still thinks that it’s different here.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 10:53 pm 87
@Aleksey:
technically there is a connection to being caucasian if you are iranian or indian.
so, you might just be right, unagiDon – though i’m sure you’d rather just troll some cakers.
i prefer canadians on credit – most of my white friends refuse to buy real estate due to the horrible value and the fact that we were raised here; some are professionals with many years of school, making 75-100k and are still living in basements, low rises in the west end, socking away money, enjoying their lives, taking vacations, etc. we know our parents paid between 50-100k for their homes through the late 70s and 80s – we know that wages have not risen correspondingly, so therefore..
the whites (and many, many young chinese-canadians – though i reserve the right to mock any and all hyphens if i cannot call myself a wasp-canadian on any employment forms) whom i know that HAVE jumped into the market in the last 3-4 years are some of the most irritating and obnoxious boosters of their purchases you’ve ever seen. they know nothing of macro or even basic econ, no idea how amortization works, no idea about CHMC or investment immigrants, and they ALL say that the chinese are going to buy their properties for 2-3x what they paid. everyone i know that has purchased have been buying further and further east – coquitlam, poco, maple ridge, langley. some of renting friends have simply up and moved to alberta where they’re pulling down more money than god at the moment, with no plans to return.
my approach with the buyers i know is: eyes open, ears open. there’s no point in telling them anything, even if you give a shit about them. you can’t help delusional people. when you realize they are declaring an income of 17,000 yet getting approved for 300-400k mortgages to buy condos you know something is very, very wrong. many of them are borrowing 100k+ for DPs from their parents life savings or HELOCs. these are cooks, waiters, assistant managers of restaurants, bars, hotels. i have no issue with an executive chef buying a nice home, but the guy pouring coffee should probably go in debt for an education instead. (and even that’s looking like a crap shoot)
you got sauce on your face
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 10:59 pm 88
@Aleksey: So true. Know someone with some gains in RE and finally holding properties debt free.
What’s next ? Get a new mortgage using current properties to buy more “investment” RE.
Some COC get anxious when they have no debt and really believe prices will go up with no limit.
The news about the market are still not out, that explains today’s paulb numbers.
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:04 pm 89
Hey folks,
Sorry to take us off topic (Van RE Bears are right – bulls will see…)
I thought some of you would enjoy this:
http://www.facebook.com/canadafipapledge/info
A pledge in support of the Foreign Investment Promotion and Protection Agreement between (FIPA) Canada and China.
We as Conservative MPs want to eliminate public concern over the China-Canada FIPA and support the Prime Minister’s decision to sign the treaty without significant public consultation or parliamentary debate. We want the Canadian public to know that we absolutely stand by the value of this agreement to all Canadians.
We believe strongly that, unlike the recent $2 billion arbitration claim by Chinese insurer Ping An Insurance Company against the taxpayers of Belgium, that Canadian taxpayers will never have to bear a burden of this kind under the FIPA agreement we have reached. We recognize that a similar scale of ruling against Canada would represent the entire earnings for one year of 60,000 Canadians.
We therefore want to put this support in terms Canadians will understand and that will illustrate how strongly we stand behind this agreement. Here is our pledge to the Canadian Public:
If there is an FIPA ruling on a claim by a Chinese company against any level of government in Canada above $5,000,000, we as Conservative MPs responsible for promoting and enacting this treaty will voluntarily pay additional federal income tax equivalent to our gross MP salary for 2012.
By signing this pledge, we show that we stand behind what we say: average Canadians will not be negatively impacted by this treaty.
Signed:
Name Riding Signature
Think any MP’s will be brave enough to sign?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:23 pm 90
@604x: This is a fun forum except when people start bringing in race. Stay on target: speculation, not race, is key.
They want you to be distracted by the nebulous, nervous, and hurtful taboo of race because it distracts from the root cause of what ails Vancouver.
“Intolerance is itself a form of violence and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.”
Now, kind friends, laugh at me and “dislike”.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:24 pm 91
Heard an ad on radio today – we will lend you at low rate EVEN IF YOU OWE MORE ON YOUR HOME THAN IT’S WORTH. The last part of the phrase was literally repeated 3 times.. Businesses are starting to reach out for the ever-growing underwater cohort
Hot debate. What do you think?
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October 29th, 2012 at 11:52 pm 92
@Ghandi: “This is a fun forum except when people start bringing in race.”
Agreed. People with low self esteem and little self worth like to blame all their problems on other races. What they need is a mirror to figure out who to blame.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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