$100k price drop guarantee
With more and more noise in the news lately about falling sales and prices in the Vancouver real estate market developers are getting creative.
When even the real estate industry predicts prices to be lower in the future how do you sell new condos?
How about offering a $100k price drop guarantee?
Crabman points out that’s what the Kimpton in North Van is offering.
It’s not entirely clear how it works, but lets assume they don’t mean that they guarantee prices will drop $100k in the next two years.
“New guaranteed prices are what you will pay today and are net of the $100,000 price protection guarantee provided by the developer and registered on the title on closing”
Here’s the ad:
And here’s a shot of the sign currently on the building exterior:
This is certainly an interesting alternative to the many stealth price drops that we usually see: free car, etc.
What do you think? If you’re looking to buy but concerned about falling prices would the price drop guarantee make you more willing to purchase?
November 7th, 2012 at 4:28 am 1
CMHC’s Changing voices:
FEB 17, 2011
CMHC: Home prices to track inflation
“The existing home market will remain in the balanced to sellers’ market range in 2011 and 2012,” CMHC chief economist Bob Dugan said in a release.
AUGUST 14, 2012
CMHC: Average prices, which are down about 5% in Vancouver this year from last year, are expected to climb about 2.6% by 2013, both in Vancouver and across B.C.
NOV 6, 2012
The average annual MLS price in Metro Vancouver is projected to end 2012 down 6.4% to $730,000 and then drop a further 0.3% in 2013
The resale market is projected to move from a buyers’ market to a more balanced market by mid-2013 in B.C.
We see a pick up in growth in both employment and the economy next year, and that’s what leads to a slightly stronger outlook for housing.
The number of sales in Metro Vancouver is forecast to end the year 18 per cent lower than 2011, but then to increase 11 per cent in 2013, shifting the market back to balanced territory before the end of next year, the CMHC forecast says. A sales-to-new-listings ratio between 45 and 60 per cent is considered balanced, while a lower ratio represents a buyers’ market and a higher ratio represents a sellers’ market, Frketich said.
(wait.. isn’t a buyers vs sellers market determined by Total Inventory vs Sales?)
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:15 am 2
Hahaha… Don’t these guys know they’re supposed to obscure the fact that prices are going to drop? Somewhere Cam Muir just spit out his coffee even though he wasn’t drinking any.
Also, the two year window is hilarious. How would you prove the condo has lost 100K in 2 years – by selling. Oh great, if the guarantee is triggered you only took a $99K bath in 2 years. MUST BUY NOW!
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November 7th, 2012 at 6:30 am 3
That’s it. I’m getting out of Vancouver and moving to Seattle. Washington State has cheaper real estate, higher paying jobs, AND legalized marijuana!!! How can BC possibly compete with that?!?!
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November 7th, 2012 at 6:36 am 4
@VMD: It’s not a “buyers’ market”, it’s a lack of buyers market.
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:07 am 5
Just received an e-mail from Bosa and seems like all the developers started to promote cash credits or other price guaranties. This is what it says :
$5,000 credit on all One Bedroom Homes
$7,500 credit on all Two Bedroom Homes
$10,000 credit on all Larger Two Bedroom Homes
They started selling in May but apparently must be having a hard time with current pricing so giving some discounts maybe will push a bit faster. This is the new building in false creek BTW. I am still waiting for the 50% drop then I will buy a 2 bedroom (currently, applying the cash credit at 578k) .
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:38 am 6
@Anonymous: Will the COSTCO in Bellingham sell weed?
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:07 am 7
I think the weed issue is huge for BC real estate. All the years of washing money by buying places, fixing them up with cash and then flipping them into clean profits has also fueled our market in a huge way! The export market just took a HUGE hit and all our production is too much for just BC. Watch for pot prices in BC to fall due to the oversupply. This will in turn hit the producers and the various ways they wash their money.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:15 am 8
In regards to the price drop guarantees I’m guessing they are completely worthless. Probably written by the shell corporation that does the development. If the guarantee is invoked there will be no money available at that point and there will be no recourse for the buyer. Happened with rent guarantees in the early eighties.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:25 am 9
i’m also one of the people that believe that drugs are one of the pillars holding up the bubble. now that WA has legalized it nammers and caucasians on credit have another revenue stream cut.
everything seems to be working against this market.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:31 am 10
@Ted:
Totally agree with you. The guarantee only is good for the life of the company making it. The company goes broke – the guarantee is useless. But it does signal out, to the smart buyer, those companies that are potentially “con men”.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:34 am 11
Another potential loss for revenue for BC.
“Canada’s Resources Minister, Joe Oliver, said Wednesday he is confident the U.S., under re-elected President Barack Obama, will approve TransCanada Corp.’s TRP -2.27% Keystone XL pipeline, according to news reports. “It is clearly in the U.S. national interest,” Oliver was quoted by Dow Jones Newswires. The pipeline would carry Canadian oil-sands crude to U.S. refiners. It was rejected earlier this year, pending further review of its environmental impact”
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:47 am 12
@B.R.A.Z.E.N: I agree with that 100%.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:48 am 13
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:54 am 14
@data junkie
what, he is afraid of his approval ratings?
you have no really idea how politics works.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:54 am 15
I want to know if they guarantee that the price will go down $100,000 in two years or if they guarantee that the price will go down $100,000 every year for (at least) the next two years?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:59 am 16
I guess they will sell pot in liquor stores…
According to bc.ctvnews.ca/how-might-legal-marijuana-in-wash-impact-b-c-1.1025789#ixzz2BYak5uDs :
Even if B.C. doesn’t follow in Washington’s footsteps, legalization in the U.S. could still deliver a blow to the province’s drug lords, Heed said.
“You will see the proceeds that criminal organizations are making here in B.C. by delivering the product to Washington State decrease substantially because they will no longer be able to reach the black market,” he said. “In fact, [they will] have eliminated the black market.”
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/how-might-legal-marijuana-in-wash-impact-b-c-1.1025789#ixzz2BYak5uDs
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:08 am 17
@DOW: Considering I’m a former lobbyist, I have to laugh at you saying I have “no idea how politics works”.
Honestly, aren’t there enough reasons to predict a large correction in Vancouver property prices without grasping at straws like what direction Alberta’s pipeline might go in? For starters, even if they built Northern Gateway instead of Keystone XL, it wouldn’t create very many jobs in B.C. Secondly, the Kalamazoo spill has made XL an unpopular political hot potato in some states that Obama literally just won, so I doubt he’s going to turn around and piss them off by giving a shady, incompetent company authorization to run thousands of miles of pipe through ecologically sensitive areas, at least not without serious modifications to the plan.
Honestly, I suspect there’s going to be a lot more emphasis on domestic production. XL isn’t impossible, but there’s a LOT of things that need to change before it becomes remotely workable on the political side.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:08 am 18
marijuana possession is still federal offense in US so i don’t know how all this will sort it out.
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:17 am 19
The way I read it is that the price you pay already includes the $100K price drop guarantee. Or in other words, you are buying the place at a price that’s $100K below current market price. So the guarantee is pretty much not even a guarantee for anything.
And just for Patriotz, before you go spewing about market price being what the buyer is paying to buy the place by definition. Please re-read what I said and remember other people don’t care about what your definition of market price, they have their own and they make their decisions based on their definition, not yours.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:17 am 20
Doesn’t the $100,000 guarantee IMPLY that prices may go down more than that? If they are so sure prices won’t go down by more than that, give a 100% guarantee forever. No?
Rookie marketing dept.!
It’s like that condo complex on Fraser Hwy in Surrey that has a big billboard with a number on it which states how many condos are left. It’s been stuck at 68 for months.
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:20 am 21
@data junkie
“it wouldn’t create very many jobs in B.C.”
it is not so much about jobs. it is about royalties that Alberta would have to share with BC. Mucho dineros, my friend. Listen more carefully to Mrs Clark next time she talks about it.
@data junkies
” the Kalamazoo spill has made XL an unpopular political hot potato in some states that Obama literally just won”
Are you color blind? Did you watch last night election? From north-south, border-to-border it is all red states.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:42 am 22
@Reality Check: I think the only guarantee is that previous buyers are guaranteed that they’re already down $100k.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:47 am 23
good call on whoever suggested to short Rona (was it Ham Solo?)
Rona profit drops on lower sales
“Rona saw its progress interrupted in a quarter marked by a decline in the Canadian hardware-renovation industry as a whole,” the Boucherville, Quebec-based company said. “The drop in sales, coupled with more intense competition, put pressure on gross margins.”
- the housing downturn still has a long way to go..
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:49 am 24
@space889:
By Joves, I think your right! I think what they are saying is that they have dropped their prices $100k from the “market price” (Yes, the one that they couldn’t move these condos at). So if you bought for $100k less than “market price” you wont lose any money if the “Market price” goes down. The only problem is if real market price goes down then the “market price” will be a price at which you won’t be able to move your condo. Evil bastards!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:56 am 25
There’s always ONE developer that breaks ranks and tries these “guarantee” schemes. Happened last time — in The Year That Shall Not Be Named — and I think condohype had a few examples headlined before s/he stopped posting.
All these are schemes to get around the crux of the issue, that prices are too high. But if there’s anything I’ve learned from the Sweatered One it’s that prices are to be dropped only at the uttermost end of need.
There are other schemes too. Care to help me formulate a list? Here are some to start:
- “Fire sale” prices, a giant weekend sales push well below market price
- 2 for 1 deals (buy a condo, and get another condo in Ohio for free)
- Developer pays your mortgage and strata fees for the first year
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 10:33 am 26
Nice graphic, now they’ll just bend him over and
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November 7th, 2012 at 10:41 am 27
Smoking pot, is a stinky, filthy habit. I hate the smell on your clothes from being around them and I hate having to breathe their second hand smoke. I see enough “baked” drivers and bike riders doing absolutely stupid things on our roads every day.
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November 7th, 2012 at 11:01 am 28
@DOW: “it is about royalties that Alberta would have to share with BC. Mucho dineros, my friend. Listen more carefully to Mrs Clark next time she talks about it.”
Nobody cares what she says until its “would you like fries with that?” or maybe “I plead guilty”.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 11:05 am 29
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November 7th, 2012 at 11:15 am 30
@boogeybear: Potheads can get their hands on dope any time they feel like it.
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November 7th, 2012 at 11:25 am 31
@space889:
” Please re-read what I said and remember other people don’t care about what your definition of market price, they have their own and they make their decisions based on their definition, not yours”
This is actually the point that I and Jesse have been making. The purpose of these incentives and guarantees is to fool people about what the actual market price is.
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November 7th, 2012 at 11:42 am 32
@painted turtle: ““You will see the proceeds that criminal organizations are making here in B.C. by delivering the product to Washington State decrease substantially because they will no longer be able to reach the black market,” he said. “In fact, [they will] have eliminated the black market.””
It’s about time folks surrendered – the war on drugs was lost before it started. Society’s Viet Nam! But, with a 100% tax, there’s no way the black-market is going to disappear, as a matter of fact, I think it’ll grow because the bogus tax rules will be so easily circumvented. Small time growers will flourish!
Still, any way you smoke it, bad news for BC Bud industry.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 11:59 am 33
I have to reply to Saint Patrick’s post from last night (10:04pm). It got foreclosed, and I don’t give a damn that the post was insulting to me (I don’t care what trolls say), but I was *shocked* at how many up-votes it got. Especially considering the nature of this blog, where I expect a larger number of people to be financially competent…
Here’s Saint Patrick’s post:
>“M” is a completely brainwashed zombie. So happy to pay all those taxes and get nothing in return. We are taxed to death!!!!! And it’s “M”orons like him that assist in the raping of the Canadian people.
>
>Do you have any idea how much revenue is generated from “gas tax”? More than enough to pay for the roads.
>“Property tax” more than enough to pay for the police and water.
>“Corporate tax” pays for health care and military.
>
>“Personal income tax” pays the interest on what it costs to have the bank of Canada lend us our own money.
>
>Fucking brainwashed fools. No wonder Canada is being given away
For those people to gave this post some upvotes, here are some things to know about taxes and finance:
“So happy to pay all those taxes and get nothing in return”. Healthcare, roads, bridges, defense, etc. We get lots of stuff in return for taxes paid.
Property tax: that pays to operate the city. Garbage, sewers, roads, water, parks, schools. If there’s money left over at the end of the year, the city either spends it on more stuff for the city, or saves it. With the exception of the Olympic Village, cities aren’t allowed to spend more than they receive in taxes.
Corporate and Personal taxes: pays for national defense, national parks, healthcare, operation of the government, social programs (eg welfare), etc. Also pays to subsidize things like public transit, ferries.
Gas tax: pays for roads & etc. Also pays for the purchase of transit buses, SkyTrain, and other initiatives to reduce fuel consumption.
On the whole, keep in mind that our governments (provincial and federal) are spending more than they take in via taxes. This is a key point– if you imagine that we’re spending all sorts of money that it’s just disappearing– well, it’s not. After the government pays for everything, there’s less than nothing left. Foreigners are lending *their* tax money to us so that we can keep things running like they are.
Do I agree with the government’s deficit spending? No. But Canadian citizens have voted in governments that keep up the spending while cutting taxes, forcing the government has to borrow to keep their promises to the public.
“Personal income tax pays the interest on what it costs to have the bank of Canada lend us our own money.”
WOW. This is the difference between countries like Canada and Zimbabwe. If a country could print money to achieve prosperity, Zimbabwe would be the richest country in the world. Evidently it didn’t work out that way.
Foreign governments buy Canadian debt (ie, lend us money) in order to fund our deficits. Since it’s their tax money that they’re sending over here, they want us to pay them some interest. Sounds like a reasonable proposition to me.
Similarly, past deficit spending by our governments have resulted in a large federal debt. (in BC, a large provincial debt). We pay interest to the countries that lent us this money. That money bought the infrastructure that lets us live a high quality of life. Since we owe the money back to them, we pay them interest. Sure, we could claim bankruptcy as a nation and repudiate the debts, but then we’d have them coming here in tanks to reclaim assets of comparable value to the debts. Just like how if you file for personal bankruptcy, your creditors will seize everything of yours that they possibly can.
If you do seriously believe that we’re being taxed to death, getting nothing (or very little) of value in return for the taxes, and you have a solution to the problem, by all means speak up! Let’s have a debate!
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:24 pm 34
@M-: It’s a bit like that old Monty Phython sketch, “What have the Romans ever done for us anyway?!?!” Someone answers: roads… irrigation…. fresh water…..sanitation….medicine…education… ohhh and the wine…. baths… and it’s safe to walk in the streets at night!
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:31 pm 35
@M-
While i do very much like National Parks, decent roads and other infrastructure etc and am even happy to pay for social welfare, there is an inherent, intractable amount of wasted money in this country to which alot of my tax dollars go:
MP pensions alone put me on the angry side of the fence over taxes. We all know someone working for the government and have heard the stories of how ridiculously little everyone works (my office on Pender used to look directly into a gov office building and i literally watched my neighbor play solitaire for years!). City workers standing around or lazing in the front of their unnecessarily large and nice trucks. Early retirement, bankable sick days and wayyy over the top compensation for firefighters, rcmp, teachers and many other public employees based on time on the job for a position they can never get fire from. Early retired police making 6-figure salaries to police the transit system here in BC while they collect pension (the “private” transit system we are heavily subsidizing with taxes here in van is something to throw a tantrum over).
While i hardly feel that i am getting taxed to death, let’s face it – our taxes are not well spent and it should make all taxpayers angry. And the idiotic and unnecessary deficits at all levels of government are criminal. We’ll all be paying for the abuse of our big, communal credit card.
However, I did not up-vote Saint Patrick though – he called me a an f’n brainwashed fool. That guy is an asshole.
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:33 pm 36
@Anonymous: “bogus tax rules will be so easily circumvented”
Tax rates on alcohol in Canada are high too. Are they widely circumvented? In fact, the law allows production of wine and beer for personal use in Canada. You can make as much as you want as long as you don’t sell it. Yet, most people still buy their stuff at the liquor store anyway. The same goes for tobacco. Grow your own tobacco and save big, right? Yet, everyone still buys their dirty cigs (plus tax or risk tax evasion bust). If you think evading tax is easy, think videotape and civil/criminal summons – then garnished wages or property lien. No police guns involved. Pay the tax, or pay through the nose is how that works.
@boogybear re: “filthy habit and health/fire/moron hazard”
I pointed out many threads ago that both pot and tobacco can be vaporized instead of burned to extract the active ingredients. For medical pot this is the indicated delivery method. No real doctor would advise burning the stuff. WA State 502 legislation also specifies that impaired driving statutes will be ammended to exact punishment for “baked” drivers. As for addicts, obviously there is no way to legislate the stupidity out of some people. So, why not make them pay extra taxes instead?
On this issue I see big dollar signs for government. As I pointed out in my analysis of the WA 502 tax rate in yesterday’s post, the criminal value add amounts to at least 50% of the cost to consumers of pot. Putting that $100-$150/oz into general revenue and reducing policing costs is revolutionary if it is done properly. Canada/BC already has a profitable liquor control and distribution business – just add some shelf space for pot and vaporizers at the local liquor store and be done with it.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=1oz+of+marijuana+price
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:38 pm 37
re pot –
as a resident of the West End, I can tell you that pot is very easy to get, smoked openly, and tolerated by most of the police around here (and no, I don’t smoke it, and really dislike the smell).
since this is the case, why don’t we just follow WA and CO and start taxing it. at least then we can cut out the criminal profits (and much of the violence attached to these) and use the tax take to help fund health, education, etc.
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:39 pm 38
@space889:
Regarding what market price means, and it’s usage. Words and terms have meaning for a reason, otherwise we might as well babble at each other. I believe market price as defined in an economics/finance context has been stated and agreed to here many times. If we’re using it in a sarcastic sense to talk about what airy fairy current buyers / developers are thinking we can use quotes – “market price” – like Bailing in BC did.
Otherwise, Tsur Somerville can get away with redefining the word “bubble” anytime he wants to.
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:45 pm 39
@Guy Smiley: my office on Pender used to look directly into a gov office building and i literally watched my neighbor play solitaire for years!
What kind of job do you have where you can just sit watching someone play solitaire for years?!? You must work for the government!
Kidding!
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November 7th, 2012 at 12:56 pm 40
@anonymous – Teehee, that was pretty funny. You i upvote sir.
I apologize to everyone out there who works for government and puts in an honest day’s work everyday. There are lots of hard working people in the public system. But you know you are outnumbered by ones i’m complaining about…..
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:19 pm 41
Some quick question..
REad some here say, “Im going to the states to work there instead”
How? You need a green card and that is not easy to come by, also, dont they already have millions unemployed already??
I am a much needed worker, but they are still not hiring in BC, even we sure could use more staff at my work.
Off topic.. Are these guys some rare brain surgeons that specialize in a particular region of the prefrontal cortex?
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:38 pm 42
Assessed value of Horseshoe Bay ferry terminal slashed from $47 million to $20 dollars
‘Ridiculous’ change comes at $1 million cost to municipal coffers
The decision essentially strips the municipality of about $250,000 of anticipated property taxes in 2013, meaning a possible 2% increase in property taxes for homeowners.
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:41 pm 43
@squeako:
(just for laughs)
There will be a huge demand in Washington for BC’s vast marijuana expertise.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:46 pm 44
@data junkie:
i wholeheartedly agree with you re: XL Pipeline not going through – it’s just not going to happen – but 9 people apparently think Obama is as big a hypocrite as his predecessor.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:49 pm 45
@DOW:
just because they’re republican doesn’t mean they approve of the pipeline – many of them are talking about Keystone XL being in the same vein as we talk about CNOOC gobbling up bloated Nexen – THOSE GODDAMN FOREIGNERS ARE TRYING TO POISON OUR LAND.
there are conservatives of many stripes.
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:52 pm 46
I see a lot of price changes in my neighborhood. Most are not aggressive (-20k).
Houses sit for a long time and open houses are quiet.
But, now and then, you see an open house full of HAM and the house get sold quickly.
Strange things happen.
For example, there was a sound and large house for sale at 1.2 millions that sat for months.
Close to it, a dump was sold for land value at 1.2 million in one go (HAM).
I don’t really get it…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:52 pm 47
@jesse:
“the sweatered one”
hilarious!
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:57 pm 48
@boogeybear:
hey, the 50s called
they want their Chesterfields back
seriously, you make it sound like heroin or worse, nicotine – so obviously you have no clue.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:59 pm 49
@Naked Official #9000 Says:
Why don’t yo re-read what Joe Oliver said. Key point from the paragraph in order to help you out: “It is clearly in the U.S. national interest,” Oliver was quoted by Dow Jones Newswires.”
Blue and Red states are irrelevant. It is puppet show for the masses. what matters are national interests.
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November 7th, 2012 at 1:59 pm 50
@squeako:
Don’t need a green card, a TN1 visa is available for many professions, there is probably someone on this board who has used one and can explain it to you.
Yes there are millions unemployed but it’s mainly a structural thing, in many of the above professions there’s lots of demand, some employers will even pay to relocate.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:07 pm 51
@Guy Smiley: On the efficiency of government spending, I concur that there are many ways it could be improved.
With regards to our transit system, note that it’s not private– it’s owned by the provincial government, as per the South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority Act. I have no comment about the (disappointingly-common) strategy of transit police “double-dipping”– receiving retirement income, and getting hired to work again in the public sector doing the same work as before…
Disclosure: I’m a TransLink employee.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:08 pm 52
@Guy Smiley:
‘outnumbered’
in the interest of rigor
what numbers?
SHOW ME THE NUMBERS
my family members are or have been employed by the government and they come home/did come home exhausted everyday.
the Koch Brothers called, they want to thank you for spreading their message.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:08 pm 53
@More Data Please: “Tax rates on alcohol in Canada are high too. Are they widely circumvented? In fact, the law allows production of wine and beer for personal use in Canada. ”
Yes, but your overlooking the significant fact that it takes very little in the way of effort, specialized knowledge,any special facilities or equipment to grow good weed while alcohol takes a lot of effort, at least some knowledge and equipment and facilities to make even a shitty drink. In addition, alcohol is heavy, difficult to transport and takes up a lot space (the so called weight/volume to buzz ratio) and can kill you if you do it wrong (although I think that’s generally overstated).
Don’t kid yourself, if most people still smoked tobacco, like they did in the old days, at todays tax rates, they’d be growing their own tobacco and selling some of it.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:17 pm 54
@DOW:
i can’t re-read something i never read – all i saw on the TV was a boatload of angry farmers and ranchers saying they don’t want some “foreign oil company” running a pipeline through their land or not.
eminent domain be damned – i’m with Data Junkie on this one
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:24 pm 55
@Anonymous:
“but your overlooking the significant fact that it takes very little in the way of effort, specialized knowledge,any special facilities or equipment to grow good weed”
ah, this is hogwash..
lets be honest about growing ‘good’ weed – it can be a lot of effort, very time consuming and a labor of love.
there are also a myriad of ways your crop can go wrong (infestations/mold/over-under feeding or watering etc) or even worse, GETTING VIOLENTLY RIPPED OFF – i know a couple of people that have been tied up at gunpoint – a huge risk to your personal safety – have you seen some of the hoodlums the lower mainland has produced? not just anti-social, entirely sociopathic. they’re not after weed to smoke it, they want to sell it to put coke up their noses.
it’s not the weed the drives people insane and to violent crime – it’s the cocaine/alcohol mix.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:28 pm 56
@M-:
I don’t like the phrase “double-dipping” as it implies that people are getting paid twice for the same job. The fact that someone is drawing a pension from a previous job is irrelevant to their qualifications for performing a job in the present. That includes the case where both the previous job and present job are in the public sector.
That’s a separate issue from whether the compensation for the previous or current jobs is excessive.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:31 pm 57
@Anonymous: “Yes, but your overlooking the significant fact that it takes very little in the way of effort, specialized knowledge,any special facilities or equipment to grow good weed while alcohol takes a lot of effort, at least some knowledge and equipment and facilities to make even a shitty drink. In addition, alcohol is heavy, difficult to transport and takes up a lot space (the so called weight/volume to buzz ratio) and can kill you if you do it wrong (although I think that’s generally overstated).”
Here’s how to make a perfectly decent beer or wine: go to your local u-brew store. Give them a bit of money, they’ll hand you clean equipment and the necessary ingredients. You put the ingredients into their clean fermenter and mix (the u-brew employee will tell/instruct you on exactly how to do it). Come back 6 weeks later, and you bottle your end result. Done. Easy. If the quality’s shitty, most u-brews will give you your money back. No risk.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:43 pm 58
@Naked Official #9000: For what it’s worth, I’m a public employee, and I come home tired every day.
Mind you, it’s not because my work is particularly taxing, it’s because it’s stressful and frustrating spending half (or more) of your day doing pointless paperwork to jump through the government’s hoops to prove that you’re not spending the public’s money in an improper manner, AND to prove that you’re giving competitors a chance at government contracts.
I have worked in the private sector– there I justified my work, got it done, paid my contractors, and moved on. If a manager were to get suspicious about financial irregularities, they could look into it and fire me if I wasn’t doing things ethically.
On the positive side, there are so many checks and balances I probably *couldn’t* get away with much of anything, and they’re not going to fire me as long as I *follow their rules*.
One other thing about public service: if you do a fantastic job at something, at most there’s a thank-you, but it won’t be remembered. If you make a decision, and it improves some things but worsens others, then even if it’s better on the whole, you’ll be remembered for the perceived failure forever. There is exactly zero incentive to take risks and innovate.
These are problems in the public service, and I don’t have any good answers.
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November 7th, 2012 at 2:45 pm 59
squeako Says: “How? You need a green card and that is not easy to come by, also, dont they already have millions unemployed already??”
they are circling down the drain. 16 t in debt and counting
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:00 pm 60
@Naked Official #9000
Doing nothing is often the most tiring thing of all. Especially when keeping up the charade of being endlessly engaged.
PS – the Seinfeld show called – they want their tired old catchphrase back.
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:01 pm 61
Just called the Kimpton’s sales office to get clarification on how the price drop guarantee works. The $100,000 gets paid into trust and at the end of the two year period, an appraiser is brought in to value the property. If the value drops (ya, like it won’t) you get refunded that amount by up to $100,000. Oh, and apparently today is the last day for this promotion and guess what…there will be a “blowout sale” this weekend to move the final five units. I was told that five sold last week so I should hurry and buy. Funny how there were only four units left prior to putting up the price drop guarantee on the sign.
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:07 pm 62
@ M-
I think you’ve hit on the next great franchise opportunity (in WA and CO at least) … U-grow’s! Pop in, choose your seeds and your specialized soil, come back in 5 weeks.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:08 pm 63
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:11 pm 64
@Naked Official #9000:
ah, this is hogwash..
No it’s not!
lets be honest about growing ‘good’ weed – it can be a lot of effort, very time consuming and a labor of love.
Ya, for pot heads. For folks that just want a buzz, they don’t give a crap.
there are also a myriad of ways your crop can go wrong (infestations/mold/over-under feeding or watering etc)
Of course, but little invested, little lost
There’s no inherent violence related to weed! Violence, is artificially induced because the activity is illegal and therefore inherently risky. When it’s not illegal anymore, theres no risk and the violence will subside. Remember Prohibition – there was lots of violence then too – what happened after booze was legalized?
In any case, we’ll leave the outcome to the history books. We can take up this discussion in two years after we see what really happened.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:16 pm 65
@boogeybear: “So, you like your recreational drugs. Like I said I don’t give a damn. You’ve been a hypocrite for years by supporting crime and saying that legalizing would be good for our society. Now you want your irresponsible actions legitimized. Maybe its time you grew up.”
Evidence that idiots don’t only live in the US.
PS: I think that’s ‘Grow Op’.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:20 pm 66
@More Data Please: But they’re not planning to sell pot that can be vaporized. Burning and inhaling smoke causes the small blood vessels in your mouth to cauterize, making your gums recede. Any dentists can tell how heavy of a pot smoker you are, just by looking in your mouth. The receding gums make a heavy smoker look like they have abnormally large teeth. The smoke also adds to increased wrinkles and premature aging. It’s not the dope – but the smoke. The dope just makes you act stupid.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:27 pm 67
lots of west side houses for rent with max terms of 5,6,7 months….me thinks they can’t sell and are renting till the spring.
should be a fun spring..
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November 7th, 2012 at 3:44 pm 68
If it weren’t enough to have the annoyance of the furnace installation guys last week ($5k hit to the landlord), now the basement is leaking. Oh, what is the landlord going to do????
Hot debate. What do you think?
10 
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:10 pm 69
People who complain about MP pensions generally don’t understand how horrible a job it is to be an MP.
Do you know how much flying an MP does, especially one from the West, or way up north, or the Maritimes? When Parliament is in session, they have to fly to Ottawa on Sunday night, work long hours (18 hour days when a big bill comes down) until Thursday night, when they have to fly back home to Fort Northern Bumfuck or wherever they represent so they can do constituency work on Friday. Then they have Saturday with the family, and Sunday it’s back to the airport again. When the House isn’t in session, they don’t just all fuck off to Hawaii- they do constituency work, fundraisers, campaigning, all of that jazz. It’s a terrible job.
When you consider that we’re trying to attract 300 people from all across the country to make the most important decisions facing our country, I’d damn well hope we offer them an incentive equivalent to what your average AHL goon makes. I’m not saying we end up with that calibre of talent in the end (far from it, thanks to the riding nomination system), but you can bet your last dollar we won’t IMPROVE that quality by screaming murder over MP salaries and benefits.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:11 pm 70
@boogeybear: Vaporizers use ordinary pot.
To be clear, I was talking about ordinary pot.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporizer_%28cannabis%29
The opportunity for the government to educate people on using the product safely with respect to mouth and respiratory tract would be an added benefit of taxation. Simple awareness of vaporization over combustion would also eliminate second hand smoke and fire hazards in multi-unit dwellings from both pot and tobacco use.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:15 pm 71
boogeybear Says:
November 7th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
The dope just makes you act stupid.
——
So does beer. But that is legal.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:19 pm 72
Actually, the #1 reason being an MP sucks (and the big reason I never jumped from lobbying to working for a party, despite a few offers when I lived in Ottawa), is that a lot of the Canadian public are pants-on-head retarded, and I could never pretend to respect my constituents when they came into my office with boneheaded complaints.
I used to laugh/cry when I heard from my friends about MPs being screamed at in their constituency offices over potholes in the local streets, or problems with the local school system, or what their condo board did. Just a bunch of mouthbreathing idiots complaining about The Government as if it’s one massive blob, with no separation of powers, that shares information on how to come and personally screw you over.
So just remember that, when foreclosures really start rolling in, and people clamor for the government to Do Something.
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:27 pm 73
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:27 pm 74
boogeybear Says:
November 7th, 2012 at 3:20 pm
The dope just makes you act stupid.
——
So does beer. But that is legal.
So does prostitution. But that is illegal. I am all confused
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:29 pm 75
@Guy Smiley:
nothing Larry David has created can ever become tired or old
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:33 pm 76
@Anonymous:
oh i have no doubt things will be better for society after prohibition is ended
but things will be even better for society after all the victims of 90 years of Anslinger’s propaganda are dead. so give it longer than 2 years – try 30 or 40.
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:34 pm 77
@Anonymous:
there was a name for people like him once
they were called “good germans”.. “and they thought they were free”
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:35 pm 78
@data junkie: What are they doing when a big bill comes down that they have to spend 18 hours working? They’re going to vote the way they’re told anyway. Besides, you get to fly business class, it isn’t that they have you stuffed in the luggage compartment.
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:40 pm 79
@data junkie:
and if you reduce MP salaries/benefits they are far more liable to being bought off with bribes and ‘gifts’
just ask Mr. Fadden:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2010/06/22/spying-csis.html
tell me again about the FIPA and CNOOC and Nexen
and tell me again about the coal miners we have to ‘import’ from the country with the worst coal mining safety record in the world.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:41 pm 80
@More Data Please:
hey, you sound like some kind of HARM REDUCTION ADVOCATE – boogeybear and his church buddies are gonna getya
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:43 pm 81
@boogeybear: The way our stupid system works (and I’m simplifying a lot here), you basically have to keep a quorum of butts in seats to keep the procedural gears moving, and avoid the other party sneaking in a poison pill amendment or spiking the bill. One of the ways to prevent this from happening is to keep the house running day and night to try and get through any filibustering attempts, and grind that mother onwards. It happened with last year’s budget, for instance.
As for flying business class- true, but seriously, would you happily fly cross country twice a week just because you got a little more legroom? It’s still a godawful Air Canada flight staffed by refugees from a Soviet penal colony. And business class only happens on the first leg from Ottawa to Calgary or Vancouver or Moncton; once you take the second leg to your backwater home town, you’re on Bearskin Airlines, which has no classes to speak of. The hemorrhoids all come in the same size.
Hot debate. What do you think?
15 
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:44 pm 82
@boogeybear:
here’s your beau
http://thearrowsoftruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/reefer_-_anslinger.jpg
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:48 pm 83
@Burgundy: Sure they’ll legalize pot before allowing someone to make a living without having to get out of bed in the morning. So how are all these big teeth dope smokers gonna get laid, if prostitution is illegal.
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November 7th, 2012 at 4:52 pm 84
@data junkie: Or wait in your office until you hear the bell and rush in for the vote.
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:12 pm 85
dow plunge protection team was on a break today. holly smolly. 4 more tears
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:13 pm 86
@data junkie: ….Do you know how much flying an MP does, especially one from the West, or way up north, or the Maritimes…
Good thing you weren’t in Jones-town, you clearly enjoy Kool-Aid.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:15 pm 87
New Listings 153
Price Changes 101
Sold Listings 81
TI:17636
http://tinyurl.com/paul-boenisch
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:19 pm 88
“I honest never saw this coming.. never..because the boom has been here for a while like 4, 5 years.” Maria has been trying to sell her 1BR loft for more than 3 months. “It’s very stressful.. sometimes I’m not sleeping well”
… the condo sales may be dropping but the construction is still going strong esp in the downtown core, with over 50k units under construction in GTA.
http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/life/video/234763–condo-sales-dropping-in-toronto
sob sob.
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:19 pm 89
New Listings 153
Price Changes 101
Sold Listings 81
TI:17636
http://tinyurl.com/paulboenisch-fb
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November 7th, 2012 at 5:39 pm 90
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November 7th, 2012 at 6:14 pm 91
@Not much of a name…:
” The $100,000 gets paid into trust and at the end of the two year period, an appraiser is brought in to value the property. If the value drops (ya, like it won’t) you get refunded that amount by up to $100,000.”
So the market price on the property has dropped below the amount owing on the mortgage and the homedebtor gets paid his $100K or whatever? Doesn’t that imply that the homedebtor’s claim is senior to the mortgage? Have these guys run this one past the banks or CMHC? Or maybe it only applies if the buyer pays cash?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 6:27 pm 92
A $100k price drop grantee is better for the developer than a $100k price cut. Seems like a smart gimmick to move inventory.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 6:44 pm 93
Just really impressive persistence of new listings this late into the fall. Gimmicks/schmimicks, if ownership to population ratio tells us no one needs a house, if losses in the aftermarket are killing the condo pre-sale market…this sucker is dead. Even the last chick in small town BC has cut off her Farrah Fawcett hair by now, and the word must even be getting out in dumbville.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 6:59 pm 94
@boogeybear: Dude, at least half the faculty at any University partake of the bud now and then. One “pothead” I know is a millionaire owner of a high tech business. Mind you, people like this don’t walk around in public smelling like a bong
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:01 pm 95
Had lunch in a cheap and cheerful Chinese restaurant today. Three guys came in and sat near me. Couldn’t help overhearing their conversation. All three were experienced tradesmen and unemployed. They were talking the entire time about what jobs were available. Mostly they complained about how poorly paid the positions were. One guy said that he was going to apply for an apprenticeship, the other guy said he wasn’t eligible because his ticket indicates he has x hours of work, and the response was that it was a slightly different position from what he normally does so he doesn’t have to show it.
Underemployment is a huge problem right now. It’s not just college/uni grads facing this problem. The downward pressure in all economic sectors seems to be affected. We can talk about how unemployment figures are not so bad, but it seems to me that it doesn’t really capture what is happening “on the ground”.
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:10 pm 96
@thepartyisover: “We can talk about how unemployment figures are not so bad”
Unemployment is a luxury few can afford nowadays. Even if you can get EI (which is the case for fewer and fewer workers), benefits are low enough so you aren’t able to take the time to search for a job in your field. You just grab what you can to survive. Hence, underemployment instead of unemployment.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:14 pm 97
@thepartyisover: “Underemployment is a huge problem right now”
So is overemployment, people being asked to do more work for the same pay. Everybody’s screwed!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:15 pm 98
” but it seems to me that it doesn’t really capture what is happening “on the ground”.”
yeah, i know a person that is part time and on/off for 4th year. she does not have even steady part time. but in official statistics she is counted as employed. she is desperate.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:38 pm 99
@Patiently Waiting:
Dude? Dude?
Even Ashton Kutcher grew up. You’ve lost an entire decade smoking that crap.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 7:47 pm 100
Are they going to put warning photographs on the pot, like they do cigarettes. And what are they going to be. A fat guy with a bag of Cheetos.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:01 pm 101
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:05 pm 102
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:11 pm 103
Meanwhile, back in Toronto, some are trying to fight the plan to turn a huge commercial bakery into 27 condo towers:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/11/07/mr-christies-bakery-workers-at-centre-of-fight-to-keep-industrial-land-from-condo-developers/
I don’t see what the problem is, really. After all, we don’t need things like jobs and factories any more. As long as we keep building more condos, eventually we can all get rich from real estate without having to work.
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:47 pm 104
@Yalie:
maybe we can cement boogeybear into the foundation
probably won’t shut him up, though
cheetos! praise the lord, heathens! bong water!
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November 7th, 2012 at 8:55 pm 105
I think boogeybear needs to hit the vape and chill out a bit.
C’mon man, join the Choom Gang- if it’s good enough for the most powerful man in the world, how bad can it be?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:50 pm 106
460 sales in the last 6 work days is the lowest 6 work day total of the year since Jan 23 besides a 2 week stretch in late August to early September. We’re getting accustomed to these low numbers but they are actually very bad even compared to the rest of this horrible year in sales
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November 7th, 2012 at 9:59 pm 107
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November 7th, 2012 at 10:01 pm 108
A few quick calculations and comments for November sales (and beyond).
- The average daily sales change from 2011 to 2012 aggregated monthly has been -22% stdev 5%.
- If we take the average drop and apply it to November’s relative to 2011 it suggests 88 average daily sales, with 1stdev range 82-93 average daily sales.
- November 2010 and 2011 daily sales did not exhibit any significant trend or bulge — sales remained relatively consistent throughout the month though were slightly worse in the second half of November 2010.
We are currently trending on the lower bound of the 1stdev range. It’s a bit too early to place a high confidence on November month-end sales but, as of now, things are looking to be tempered a bit compared to October. (August-October averaged 75,80,88 daily sales.)
It looks like there was a small “sales blip” in October (call it a magnitude 6.0 blip). This might be noise but there may have been a cause for it. A speculation is there were some final loan approvals before OSFI changes were due to be implemented on October 31st.
Long and short, the fall has provided little in the way of additional sales for owners, agents, and the rest of the FIRE food chain. I expect 2012 will show marked income drops for many real-estate-sales-commission-based positions. As we start looking into 2013 and considering the possibility that a sales drought is a multi-year event, not a blip like during the GFC, things may get a bit more real. If weakness does become extended, keep your eyes and ears peeled for some more pointed emotional outbursts.
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November 7th, 2012 at 10:11 pm 109
@FlipFlop: assuming “giggle stick” is a euphemism for marijuana, nope, not me.
Despite not using it, I support legalization & regulation, if only to take the criminality out of it… We should stop wasting police resources (those cost tax dollars!) chasing criminal gangs, when we could easily just get the gangs out of the business by legalizing it.
As it stands now, anybody who wants marijuana can buy it easily, so the police impact can’t be that big. It’s just expensive and harder-to-find because of the prohibition premium. Put it in liquor stores, give the criminal profit margin to government in the form of taxes, and use those taxes to pay police to chase down the hardcore drugs.
It takes forever for the cops to get enough information to get a warrant to break up a grow op; policing is ineffective. Just take the profits out of the game.
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November 8th, 2012 at 12:06 am 110
I think there’s a case to be made for the harm reduction on the user side as well. It’s not like we’re talking about 5% of the populace here. There’s a lot of nasty weed out there that I certainly don’t want to smoke (or want my kids or father smoking).
The current medicinal channel in Vancouver provides a high quality (no pun intended) consistent product, in many forms (edibles, tinctures, oils, hashish, buds, etc), by people that are knowledgeable about the plant, and keen to help you choose the right application for your preferred usage. It’s a safe place, it’s convenient, it’s controlled and requires ID.
The fact that this type of safety and efficacy isn’t afforded to everyone is a travesty, when you consider the numbers involved. How many honest, hardworking Canadians are being forced to acquire their marijuana through unsafe, inconvenient, dangerous, criminally run channels that help fuel the violence in their own neighborhoods? Or end up smoking crap that some amateur grower didn’t flush properly, that’s still full of fertilizer. Or buying dime bags on Granville Street that some douche bag laced with chemicals, so that people will think it’s really good.
For a plant. Ridiculous.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 8th, 2012 at 1:42 am 111
Very easy to offer a $100,000 price drop guarantee.
Simply price the unit $100,000 more than it is actually worth.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:13 am 112
http://www.680news.com/news/national/article/419766–flaherty-says-u-s-budget-crisis-could-push-canada-into-a-recession
Flaherty says: “we are not going to stand by and have the Canadian economy slip deep into a recession with high unemployment.”
This sounds like over-reaching to me. To his credit, he did say “in response to an external shock”.
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November 8th, 2012 at 3:49 am 113
@rp1:
This is just another attempt to blame the inevitable collapse of the Canadian RE/consumer debt bubble on external events.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 8th, 2012 at 4:02 am 114
@patriotz:
flaherty is hilarious when he gets flustered..
if the ‘fiscal cliff’ scenario happens, what will the CCP say to the 1.5 billion in the working/peasant/lumpenproletariat classes when their export market crumbles and their t-bills are worthless? should be a fun century! better get that deep water navy started..
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:12 am 115
Flaherty says: “we are not going to stand by and have the Canadian economy slip deep into a recession with high unemployment.”
so printing presses are getting warmed up. this will not end well.
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:23 am 116
@rp1: Shovel Ready or Ready to Shovel IT?
Any tips on how to get in on this?
The real comedy gold of stimulus/QE is imagining Bernanke giving up on buying instruments and simply directly hiring workers to move dirt from one pile to another in the parking lot of the Federal Reserve.
Does Carney have his own “shovel ready” comedy plan?
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:45 am 117
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November 8th, 2012 at 8:45 am 118
October blip?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/hu-opens-chinese-congress-with-call-to-fight-corruption/2012/11/08/c761985e-29a0-11e2-aaa5-ac786110c486_story.html
Will this bring more CCOs to our shores?
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November 8th, 2012 at 9:36 am 119
@patriotz:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the add states that the price paid is net of the $100k price drop and that amount is registered on title. Wouldn’t the buyer essentially have to come up with $100k cash just to put into trust? So much for the down payment. Instead of having to have $150k as a down payment to avoid CMHC, the buyer will now have to have $230k ($130k dp plus the $100k into trust). No wonder they didn’t sell any of these units. This is also after trying to “give” away a BMW with a purchase not so long ago.
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November 9th, 2012 at 12:01 am 120
[...] -Winter freeze for Vancouver sales? -RET better than a new condo? -Calgary & Edmonton beat Vancouver -Don’t bet on inflation for home prices -Rent Vs. Buy -Everybody must get stoned -West Van waterfront acreage $20.00 -Rona sales struggling -Shadow inventory? -Mr. Christie you make good condos -Really low sales [...]
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November 10th, 2012 at 12:47 am 121
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