The presales suing starts again
If you’ve been in Vancouver for a few years you may remember the last time the market took a dip was in 2008.
As prices fell we started to see more and more stories about buyers trying to get out of presales contracts and developers going after buyers for the difference between their deposit and the current market value of the condo.
Well looks like we’re starting to see legal wrangling over presales contracts again, the most recent one is buyers trying to get out of their purchase agreements at the Hotel Georgia.
Falling Vancouver real-estate prices and widespread expectations that they’ll fall further have sparked a rise in lawsuits from condo buyers who want to get out of their presale contracts.
The trend underscores the importance for developers to scrupulously follow the Real Estate Development Marketing Act (REDMA) – because failure to do so can render sales contracts unenforceable and enable buyers to get their deposits back.
“People wouldn’t be looking for the return of their deposits if the units were worth more than or as much as they purchased them for,” Harper Grey LLP partner Bryan Baynham told Business in Vancouver.
The most recent string of lawsuits involves Georgia Properties Partnership’s (GPP) Residences at Hotel Georgia project, which is set to be complete in December – one year later than the developer promised buyers.
Baynham had filed six lawsuits from buyers of units at the Residences at Hotel Georgia as of October 24. He expects to file more.
The project has 156 units. As of September, 96 were sold.
If prices continue to fall in Vancouver you can bet we’ll see more legal action over presales contracts, both from buyers and developers.
November 1st, 2012 at 1:32 am 1
Wary of Future, Professionals Leave China in Record Numbers
So the crooks at the top want to leave, and the people who do the real work want to leave too.
Does this sound like the superpower of the future?
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:14 am 2
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:21 am 3
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November 1st, 2012 at 6:06 am 4
The Party will not let their skilled workers leave. Look for a clamp down by the Chinese on this.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 6:12 am 5
@logic:
Which means China becoming more like Brezhnev’s USSR, which it already resembles IMHO.
The more the Party resists reform the more severe the eventual reckoning.
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November 1st, 2012 at 6:59 am 6
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November 1st, 2012 at 7:02 am 7
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November 1st, 2012 at 7:21 am 8
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November 1st, 2012 at 7:44 am 9
@cappucino: “China is creditor nation, west is debtor.. who is going to get hurt?”
Creditor. Check history.
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November 1st, 2012 at 7:57 am 10
@Anonymous: “Nice to see you stay on topic again.”
If you believe (as Muir and Somerville have stated) that immigrants from China are buoying Vancouver real estate, then the post is indeed on topic. From page 2:
“Zhang Ling, the owner of a restaurant in the coastal city of Wenzhou, is one such worrier. His extended family of farmers and tradesmen pooled its money to send his son to high school in Vancouver, Canada. The family hopes he will get into a Canadian university and one day gain permanent residency, perhaps allowing them all to move overseas. “It’s like a chair with different legs,” Mr. Zhang said. “We want one leg in Canada just in case a leg breaks here.””
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:13 am 11
@patriotz: Alternate link “Chinese Wary of Future”:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49635055
Additional thoughts.
What happens when design/automation efficiency catches up to cheap labor and all the plastic dogsh** can be squirted out and shipped from North American factories?
Wages in North America could also come down a bit without lowering living standards if the cost of basic necessities like shelter decrease.
Also, at what price less than double, do domestic versions of Chinese origin products become more attractive? China definitely has cost leading cheap labor, but for how long and at what social cost is it sustainable?
Many are beginning to have doubts about the total cost of the current situation particularly in regard to importing lawless/unethical Chinese business practices where only the cheap goods were being imported before.
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:38 am 12
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:42 am 13
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:50 am 15
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:02 am 16
@patriotz: Nope but still better than Vancouver? I mean we keep hearing professionals and those with important skills like Doctors wanting to leave and head for greener pastures. At the same time, we are not only attracting crooks but the worst kinds here. Why? Because it doesn’t matter how evil, murderous, or destructive you are, if the country you are escaping from wants to execute you, Canada can’t deport you back unless and until they can guarantee you wouldn’t be executed or be killed in prison. Which other country in the world has this? None that I know of.
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:05 am 17
@Confucius:
Exactly. Patriotz first post for the last 2 days has been brainless OT China flame bait.
Can we start discussing unpasteurized milk again, or something?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:08 am 18
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:09 am 19
Regarding professionals migrating, but trying to swing it back on topic-
Well, looks like we’re going to need more lawyers to deal with all these prepares lawsuits…
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:13 am 20
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:35 am 21
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:37 am 22
Hey. Give it a rest with the personal attacks and discuss this:
http://www.yattermatters.com/2012/11/eyes-on-vancouver-average-home-price/
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:42 am 23
#8 @cappucino: “China is creditor nation, west is debtor.. who is going to get hurt?”
Creditor nations always take the brunt of it, because there is no recourse for international sovereign debt. China’s surplus is also a function of its trade policy. It has to acquire growing reserves to hold its currency down. This is not exactly “virtuous” and it does not represent “savings”. By doing this, China is suppressing the standard of living of the majority of Chinese people. The trade surplus is withheld from them and flows into corrupt activities.
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:49 am 24
Wow, a sea of foreclosures on the postings this morning! What’s with the postings dorks, OD on your Halloween candy?
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:53 am 25
Troll index really high today. Will we beat the record low sales day of yesterday?
From Yatter Matter’s blog:
For Detached: Listings up 17%, and Sales down 18% from last year. That can’t be good for the bulls…
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:54 am 26
That country over there:
http://www.alsosprachanalyst.com
That country over there:
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2012/09/chinas-shadow-banking-system-collapses.html
That country over there:
http://www.mpettis.com
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:09 am 27
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:17 am 28
@cappucino: unfortunately, recourse of international debt might mean war (like world war)… let’s hope the economic situation will stabilize before the world get to that point (again).
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:17 am 29
rp1 “The trade surplus is withheld from them and flows into corrupt activities.”
he-he you mean corrupt activities like this one, just off the press:
“Curt Schilling Sued Over Misappropriated $75 Million Rhode Island Development Agency Loan”
Doping cyclists, UK banks which manipulate every possible thing they are involved with, and now embezzling one-time baseball millionaire greats with bloodied socks… Is nothing sacred anymore? more here:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-01/curt-shilling-over-misappropriated-75-million-rhode-island-development-agency-loan
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:27 am 30
hey rp1 since you started about corruption here is one more nugget for you:
this morning still hot from the press
“Barclays Fined Record Amount For Channelling Enron, Manipulating California’s Electricity Market”
“It just is not Barclays’ year. After being exposed (so far the only one) as a ringleader in a massive LIBOR-rigging scandal which cost Bob Diamond his job, yesterday the British bank added insult to injury, after the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) fined it $470 million – the largest penalty ever levied by the energy regulator, and even larger than the bank’s LIBOR fine – for getting caught doing what Enron got caught doing about a decade ago: manipulating California’s electricity markets.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-01/barclays-fined-record-amount-channelling-enron-manipulating-californias-electricity-
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:44 am 31
@vhb
What was total sales for the month?
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:42 am 32
@FlipFlop: See here from yesterday’s commenting. Reported REBGV sales will be about 60 or so less than this. My guess is for sales being reported as 1860, with inventory 17500, for MOI 9.4
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:49 am 33
I love the troll logic: Levering up and buying real estate in Vancouver is confident and brave, but home prices in Vancouver will never fall and anyone who wants it to are losers.
Cmon guys, you can’t have it both ways. Those arguments might let you sleep at night, but you’re not fooling anyone here.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:56 am 34
OT: But this is what journalism should be all about. This guy is a hero.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20163430
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:59 am 35
Wow: From Garth’s blog:
————————–
Another West Richmond sale,
7834sq lot
6691 gibbons road.
this is a multimillion dollar area
1258k assessed value.
1258k asking march 2012
reduced 1198k may
1058k july
898k oct
sold 845k
Ouch!
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November 1st, 2012 at 12:12 pm 36
Property volumes increase but remain at near record lows
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ON VCI
VANCOUVER, B.C. –November 1, 2012 – The pace of property sales in Greater Vancouver increased from September 2012 but continued to languish at near record lows through October 2012. October 2012 had the second lowest monthly sales volumes for the month of October in the past 12 years. Sales volumes slowed throughout the month with daily sales volumes decreasing from 93 sales per market day in the first half of the month to 86 sales per market day in the second half of the month. The current sales pace and persistently high inventory levels have resulted in approximately nine months of supply being on the market.
GVREB reports that residential property sales of detached, attached and apartment properties fell to 1,964 in October 2012, the second lowest total for the month of October in the past 12 years. This total represents a 15 per cent decrease compared to the 2,308 sales in October 2011. In contrast with the fewer selling days in September 2012, October 2012 had 2 additional selling days compared to October 2011. Adjusting for these selling day differences, both September and October 2012 had a pace of sales approximately 22 per cent below the comparable month of 2011.
October 2012 showed little change in the market direction compared with September with prices remaining flat to modestly negative. Lower liquidity available to buyers on credit has reduced the ability of these buyers to make purchases while cash buyers or those obtaining low ratio mortgages have not been affected by changes in mortgage rules. This has resulted in a change in the mix of properties being sold and has put upward pressure on average prices while standardized Reference Prices have been decreasing. Although there is a significant excess of properties available for sale compared to the current number of active purchasers, properties which are priced appropriately for the market are successfully and quickly finding buyers. Selective and patient buyers have been successful at obtaining significant discounts from motivated sellers with aggressive low offers being accepted in many cases, especially on higher priced properties. Industry insiders have noted that the effects of mortgage rule changes have now been realized into the level of market activity and that sales volumes are not expected to decrease further without external economic changes. Industry experts however predict that prices will continue to fall slowly and high inventory levels will continue in most areas. GVREB also notes that although Months of Inventory (MOI) decreased for most areas from September 2012 to October 2012, when compared to October 2011, all areas had significant increases in MOI with detached MOI up in most areas by over 75 per cent.
New listings for detached, attached and apartment properties in Greater Vancouver totalled 4,271 in October 2012. This continues to be slightly above the average listing rate for the past 12 years. In addition, the sales to new listing ratio of 46.0% was the second lowest of the past 12 years. As listings slow through the end of the year, inventory is expected to decrease significantly as typical seasonal listing expirations occur.
The number of active listings at the end of October 2012 was 17,363. Month-end inventory decreased compared to Setpember 2012 as October was 5 per cent below September’s closing inventory. MOI also fell for the first time in eight months falling to 8.8 based on the total sales in October 2012. The change in MOI from September to October however was impacted by the number of selling days in each month. Adjusting for the higher or lower number of selling days, MOI fell from 11.1 in September 2011 to 9.7 in October 2012. The adjusted MOI for detached properties fell from 12.6 in September 2012 to 10.3 in October 2012 while attached and apartment MOI fell from 10 to 9.2.
The Residential Reference Price for all residential properties in Greater Vancouver over the last 12 months decreased by 0.9 per cent to $603,000 in October 2012 from $608,400 in October 2011.
Sales of detached properties in September slowed to 807 units, a decrease of 17 per cent from the 974 detached sales recorded in October 2011, and a 17 per cent decrease from the 976 units sold in October 2010. October 2012 was the second lowest sales volume of detached in the past 12 years. The reference price for detached properties fell modestly to $930,000 compared to $939,900 in October 2011.
Sales of apartment properties fell to 811 units in October 2012, a 15 per cent decrease compared to the 958 sales in October 2011, and a decrease of 18 per cent compared to the 984 sales in October 2010. The reference price of an apartment property decreased marginally to $366,000 from $367,800 in October 2011.
Attached property sales in October 2012 totalled 346, a 9 per cent decrease compared to the 382 sales in October 2011, and an 8 per cent decrease from the 377 attached properties sold in October 2010. The reference price of an attached unit decreased 2.7 per cent from October 2011 to $459,000.
“GVREB is a not for profit real estate bulletin prepared by industry analysts and market participants. Comments, information and questions can be sent to the general e-mail box at gvreb1@gmail.com”
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November 1st, 2012 at 12:20 pm 37
Toronto condo projects on hold as sales plunge:
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/11/01/toronto-condo-projects-delayed-as-sales-plunge/
And they are talking about 3Q 2012 numbers, just wait for dismal October and 4Q!
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November 1st, 2012 at 12:28 pm 38
Condominium developers have quickly reacted to a downturn in the housing market by cancelling or delaying projects, according to a new survey which says sales dropped 30% in one quarter.
Toronto condo projects on hold as sales plunge
Prices are starting to drop too…maybe young Canadian families will soon begin to take back THEIR cities.
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November 1st, 2012 at 12:33 pm 39
@YLTNboomerang
Sorry for the repeat….
At least we’re crowding out Bull! x3 with the truth, so that’s a good thing.
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November 1st, 2012 at 12:40 pm 40
Ugh, someone turned a single family house into 3 suites…what a waste:
http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/3377366021.html
I like these comments:
“This suite is very private and has a unique view of the tree lined streets. Excellent for a quiet single or couple looking for a lot of space and great neighbourhood. May not be ideal for those looking for a backyard and or are sensitive to noise as there is some noise transfer to the suite below and or someone adverse to stairs as there are two flights of stairs to the suite. There is a total of three suites in the house and there is currently long term, kind and quiet tenants in the other two suites.”
“Quiet” is key as they did such a lousy job splitting the place up that you can hear your neighbors sneeze!
“Parking is permit parking in front of house, typically no trouble getting a spot right in front.”
Typically no trouble…but sometimes you are just going to have to circle the block. I live around here and guess what, it’s a problem, especially when you have a single family house converted to 3 units with no parking (carport is now a carriage house I believe).
Moonbeams density nightmare begins…
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November 1st, 2012 at 1:18 pm 41
Mainstream now:
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/11/01/condo-market-driven-by-over-eager-buyers-and-faulty-math-analyst/
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November 1st, 2012 at 1:29 pm 42
@YLTNboomerang:
Wow and you only pay $1200 per bedroom for that privilege! Jesus.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 1:33 pm 43
@mclovin: from the article:
The truth is slowing starting to surface. I repeat my theory again: if it took large scale fraud in the US to get to 70% of home ownership, it probably took fraud of similar scale to get to the same level in Canada…
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November 1st, 2012 at 2:06 pm 44
Makaya: ” if it took large scale fraud in the US to get to 70% of home ownership, it probably took fraud of similar scale to get to the same level in Canada…”
fraud? in Canada? nooooo.,it can’t be true….we are law obeying citizens, we have values, rule of law and other crap people have been saying here on the board
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November 1st, 2012 at 2:09 pm 45
@space889:
“if the country you are escaping from wants to execute you, Canada can’t deport you back unless and until they can guarantee you wouldn’t be executed or be killed in prison. Which other country in the world has this? ”
The entire EU, and many other countries some of which may surprise you, such as South Africa.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/landmark-ruling-confirms-south-africa-cannot-deport-people-risk-death-penalty-2012-07-27
Since you asked.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 2:15 pm 46
@Makaya:
Article: “This is surprising because banks generally talk about (mortgage) pre-approvals being in place for approximately 70% of units before the development loan is released to the developer.”
This is nonsense, a bank cannot pre-approve a mortgage for a property that won’t be finished in ~2 years because neither the buyer’s income, interest rates nor market price at closing time are known at present.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 2:17 pm 47
#29 @star wars: Small potatoes:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-goldman-gambled-on-starvation-2016088.html
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:02 pm 48
@YLTNboomerang: I thought people were praising this kind of densification? rather than resorting to condo towers that are soulless and you don’t ever know or meet or talk to your neighbors??
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:09 pm 49
@patriotz: So South Africa just started last year while Canada has had this for like more than decade. Plus, how many of those crooks would even know South Africa has this, and even if they do, how many would move there given their extremely high crime rate??
As for EU, it is extremely difficult for people to immigrate to EU to get citizenship from non-EU countries or conduct refugee claims from what I heard. Whereas Canada, all you have to say is refugee and everyone bends over backward for you. People like Lai Changxin would not have been able to stay in EU for as long as he did on a refugee claim, regardless of death penalty issue or not.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:12 pm 50
@space889: I’ve lived in a single family home near 25th and main and an apartment building In point Grey. By far the friendliest neighbors were in the apartment building.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:18 pm 51
@patriotz: Also, if EU is as easy as Canada, why aren’t the Chinese crooks streaming over there enmass? I think they have even better free health care and school and social programs than here, and there are large Chinese enclaves in a lot of the big cities. The reason is that it is not easy, especially for countries with extradition treaty with China.
Canada in this regard enjoys a very high brand awareness in China.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:21 pm 52
@Anonymous: Hi, I don’t disagree….I was talking about condo towers – especially the new ones. I lived in apartment building before and people do seem friendlier and more willing to socially bond if one makes the effort.
Condo tower owners don’t seem like that. Riding up in an elevator with other owners is kind of like riding up in an elevator in an office building with people from different companies. It’s all silences and glances at how soon before my floor hits.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:47 pm 53
@space889: This is strange, and it’s supposed to work the opposite way. I know the NAR in the states is trying to pump the connection between buying and neighborly ways, so it’s odd that in my experience it’s the opposite. Neighborhoods and buildings with mostly owners seem to less friendly than rental areas. I wonder why that is?
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November 1st, 2012 at 3:53 pm 54
@space889:
You are confusing two issues that have nothing to do with each other, namely extradition and immigration.
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November 1st, 2012 at 4:30 pm 55
why are maintenance fees so much higher on the east coast? is it the possibly included heating costs?
A one bedroom there could easily fetch $500 a month in Maintenance fees, where in Vancouver it might cost $300 tops
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November 1st, 2012 at 4:36 pm 56
what is this crap about
Carriage houses with a modern twist in #Coquitlam attract 500 pre-registered potential buyers as October was a good real estate month. #CBC
by BellePuri via twitter on November-01-12 at 4:26:48 PM
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November 1st, 2012 at 4:57 pm 57
@Anonymous: Just curious – on the east coast are stratas required by law to factor in the true cost of future repairs and upkeep? If so, this might account for the differences.
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November 1st, 2012 at 5:00 pm 58
Here is what I have for month end numbers. Will differ a bit from official numbers, as usual. The source of this is Paulb’s daily postings. Thanks, Paul!
The numbers are slightly different from what Van Dweller posted yesterday because he left out Friday October 19th.
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November 1st, 2012 at 5:01 pm 59
I’m not sure.
Maybe with the depreciation reports that are mandatory come Dec 2013 the fees in Vancouver will rise.
but seriously, have you looked at condos in Toronto? some one bedrooms have fees close to $700 a month.
My last condo in Van was $260 which included heat and hot water (older building, hot water heating)
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November 1st, 2012 at 5:04 pm 60
@Anonymous: Maintenance costs out east have to include snow removal costs. Suckers. They often also include hydro.
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November 1st, 2012 at 5:07 pm 61
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November 1st, 2012 at 5:39 pm 62
New Listings 148
Price Changes 99
Sold Listings 74
TI:17719
http://www.paulboenisch.com
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November 1st, 2012 at 6:22 pm 63
thanks PaulB, good start!
let’s keep these sales below 100
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 6:40 pm 64
@space889: I actually noticed the opposite. My formal building was purpose built rental tower at Beach and Thurlow…now I rent in a condo tower at Pacific and Richards. I find people in the condo building much more likely to say hello in the evelvator…but that’s just my experience.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 6:58 pm 65
18k party next week!!
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 7:43 pm 66
How were the sales for Oct against historical norms?
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November 1st, 2012 at 7:45 pm 67
@jojomalone: Maintenance costs out east have to include snow removal costs. Suckers.
Here in bc we don’t include rain removal costs in strata fees. We just let it build up in the walls for a few years and then pay a big special assessment to fix it.
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:04 pm 68
Sales in October
Copied from VHB’s numbers.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:20 pm 69
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:23 pm 70
Some good news…
http://www.theprovince.com/news/bc/ICBC+sheds+staff+following+damning+report/7486037/story.html
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:55 pm 71
Here are the November norms.
BTW, on my PCS the stuff that is selling is going for serious discounts off asking. Stuff like listed at 750 in September; sold for 650. Listed at 980 sold for 820. Maybe those asking prices were just pitched way over market, but I say that price movement is happening.
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November 1st, 2012 at 8:59 pm 72
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:26 pm 73
@VHB: Do you mean these to be October numbers or November? I’m assuming November is a typo? Thnx.
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:34 pm 74
I’m really starting to notice price changes in west side apartments….took awhile but its starting for sure:). Kinda exciting but not as exciting as it will be 18 months from now!
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:48 pm 75
@mac: That is November in post 71. I’m looking ahead, not behind!
Good Format posted the October numbers downthread.
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November 1st, 2012 at 9:54 pm 76
@Anonymous: Please share what asking price declines you’re seeing. I see drops that are way smaller than they need to be to find buyers.
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:12 pm 77
So are these the 2nd worst sales for Oct ever?
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:46 pm 78
@Anonymous: where ‘ever’ is defined as ‘since 2001′; yes.
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:48 pm 79
@space889:
“if the country you are escaping from wants to execute you, Canada can’t deport you back unless and until they can guarantee you wouldn’t be executed or be killed in prison. Which other country in the world has this? ”
You rally don’t appreciate how important this is until you see it happening. Back in college (80′s, insert joke here) the Iranian family in the neighbouring apartment had a BIL who was Iraqi (Shia). He had fled to Iran (yes, really) to escape persecution in Iraq, married into the Iranian family, who had then moved to Canada en masss. Good moves so far. However, Immigration Canada (IC) found out his Iranian papers were bogus, and picked him up and were hastily going to deport him back to his country of citizenship, Iraq. Dude was in a world of sh@t as at that time the Iraq authorities treatment for guys like him was to come onto the plane when it landed, drag him out onto the tarmac and shoot him on the spot. The family was frantic trying to stop IC from deporting the guy, but making little headway as Iraq was somehow favoured at the time. I don’t know how it turned out for that family, but am really glad the policy got fixed or maybe IC became less naive in the intervening years.
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November 1st, 2012 at 10:56 pm 80
Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike:
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:09 pm 81
hot Asian money, indeed…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20121101/as-china-politics-corruption/
Well-loved. Like or Dislike:
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:10 pm 82
@Rusty’s Ghost:
Communist party of China is worse, Iraqis are babies compared to that octopus.
Hot debate. What do you think?
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:12 pm 83
Oct 2011 sales were already in the slow-down zone that lead to the terrible spring selling season. Oct 2012 is worse. Historically, we should be seeing 90% S/L in November. Not going to happen. Correction ongoing.
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November 1st, 2012 at 11:30 pm 84
@Chabar:
you have been reported for re-education
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November 7th, 2012 at 10:56 am 85
each time i used to read smaller content which as well
clear their motive, and that is also happening with this post which I am reading now.
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