2nd most expensive home is a tear-down

The second most expensive property ever listed in Canada is a teardown in West Vancouver.

It’s like an itty-bitty Versaille on a waterfront lot.

But there’s something special about this waterfront lot:

Asked how the home has changed since 1964, Tsavdaris answered: “It hasn’t.”

The current owners, who have lived on the West Bay property since 1978, are looking for something smaller, according to McLaren. “They just want to pull the value out of the land. It’s the last piece of flat waterfront,” she said.

That’s right, it’s the absolutely last piece of flat waterfront until the next waterfront teardown comes onto the market.

109 Responses to “2nd most expensive home is a tear-down”

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    How misleading is this?
    Have imaginary houses like these sold before?
    What kind of prices?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    Name taken Says:
    2

    fucking politicians and their increased taxes… As if 43.7% was not high enough. They are spending money on stupid tv ads and all kinds of bullshit projects like that indian movie event so now people get to pay more tax and businesses get further hit on top of PST.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 26 Thumb down 10

    LOL
    50-year old house is a tear-down… Tell this to Germans or Italians!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 1

    @2:

    The surprise of this year’s budget is a personal tax rate increase, the first one proposed in B.C. since the Liberal party formed government in 2001. It would impact British Columbians with annual salaries of at least $150,000, and would take effect April 1. The rate for high income earners would move from 14.7% to 16.8%, still the lowest among Canadian provinces;

    All I can say is that if this tax increase applies to you, suck it up fella.

    http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/02/19/b-c-budget-proposes-first-personal-tax-hike-since-liberals-took-over-in-2001/

    Sloppy journalism note: of course income taxes apply to incomes, not just salaries.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 9

    Liberals have been accused of producing a structural deficit. What happened to all those surpluses last decade?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2

    Teranet shows -2.5% YOY. Compare that to 40% drop predicted by some. Peanuts! :-)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 5

    Anonymous Says:
    7

    4% MSP Premiums increase.

    50,000 elderly immigrants (65+) enter Canada per year. Many in BC.

    Fraud rampant in Care Card ‘borrowing’ by international students, TFW, and now visitors from Mexico as visa free travel will soon be in effect.

    Canadians sure are naive. The FIRE industries are laughing.

    End immigration until we get our house in order.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 9

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 18

    Many Franks Says:
    10

    Some nice “hey, look at the totally obvious Canadian housing bubble” coverage at wallstreetpit.com, including a nod to VREAA.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

    Groundhog Says:
    11

    @@jesse

    Your math does suck. At January’s -0.8% monthly decline pace it would take about 5 years. The average credit bubble takes 4-7 years to fully play out on the downside.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 0

    phiscal. Says:
    12

    how many years until we see the bottom at -40% then? 10? 15? my math sucks, help me out.

    Wow! Your math really does suck. Consider that the market was still rising until around June of last year, do you think that means we’re falling at 2.5% per year, or something faster?

    Not a trick question.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0

    Groundhog Says:
    13

    Having poor basic math skills is a prerequisite for being bullish on Vancouver RE.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 62 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    14

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 23

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Don't make eye contact Says:
    17

    “my math sucks, help me out.”

    This dummy needs to go back to the Remax office and join the solitaire tournament. Better yet, I hear that the dismal market has give realtors lots of free time to do continuing education. Here are some your opportunities:

    1. Advanced posting pictures on the internet;
    2. How to successfully commit fraud on national TV with fake buyers;
    3. Advanced lawn sign installation techniques

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 2

    Groundhog Says:
    18

    @@Jesse

    Assuming 2.5% inflation and a 0.8% decline every month it would take about 5.5 years, so until around 2018 to hit 2001 real house prices.

    So yes, if you’re waiting for a bottom you’ll have to wait 5 years at this pace (and according to the “experts” I’m sure they’ll say this stat is indicative of a flat market). But at that point you’ll probably be too scared to buy anyway. Trying to time the bottom is a as fruitless an activity as trying to time the top. Best to hone up on your math skill and when it makes sense to buy, buy. It may make sense to buy well before 2018.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

    asalvari1 Says:
    19

    @phiscal
    ” Consider that the market was still rising until around June of last year, do you think that means we’re falling at 2.5% per year, or something faster?”

    This got to be trick question. Is that 2.5% seasonally adjusted or not ?

    :-^)

    (just joking..)

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    Why the hell is this news??? This place has been listed non stop for the last 4 years. It started at $30 million in March of 2009 and then January 2012 they raised it to $37.9 million. The listing expired obviously and now they relist 2 days later for $37.9 million again and all of a sudden it makes the sun, the province and the local news… Our media is horribly lacking.

    I’m going to list my Burnaby home for $37,988,888 and see what happens.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 63 Thumb down 1

    How is 16.7% provincial tax rate lower than Alberta’s 10%? I am well aware that the Alberta tax is a flat tax, but still there is a cross over point. The Ernst and Young tax calculator shows Albertans pay less overall tax after about 126,000 for 2012.

    Perhaps the author could change the note to “still the lowest tax rate when you exclude the places where taxes are lower.”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2

    #20 An Observer
    “I’m going to list my Burnaby home for $37,988,888 and see what happens.”

    I wish it could make the news. That would be so much fun. Please do =)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0

    oainted turtle Says:
    23

    Best part of the article about the budget:
    ‘The biggest source of new money is Mr. de Jong’s proposed sale of surplus properties owned by the province. These include parking lots and a vacant school on Vancouver Island. The government hopes to recoup $625-million on their sale. More than half of that amount is already booked for the coming fiscal year. Without the proposed property sales, the government would not balance its fiscal 2013/14 budget, let alone show a surplus.’
    Apparently, those properties have been for sale for a year. No taker…
    Priced too high may be?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    24

    “Trying to time the bottom is a as fruitless an activity as trying to time the top.”

    I think that Vancouver and Canada in general are headed for a nominal bottom lasting several years, which has actually been the norm both in Canada and the US.

    The US has seen a noticeable upswing from last year’s bottom but I think that’s a delayed effect of the interest rate cuts of a few years ago. Canada got the interest rates cuts on the way up and I don’t think there’s going to be anything to produce a quick bounce from the bottom. Particularly not if interest rates go up at all going forward.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 0

    Many Franks Says:
    25

    When you have to go all the way to the New York Times to try to sell a 2BR apartment, you know there’s trouble.

    Concerns about global financial turmoil have made buyers more cautious in recent months, said Jeff Fitzpatrick, a Vancouver-based agent for Sotheby’s International Realty Canada. New mortgage lending restrictions have reduced buying power for many Canadians; the total number of sales in the Vancouver area was down 30 percent in 2012, Mr. Fitzpatrick said. Despite this, he added, sellers mostly are sticking with their prices, which have fallen only about 10 percent over the same period.

    How things have changed in just 6 months, hey?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1

    @Many Franks

    You can buy that apartment for $1,598,000, or rent one right under it for $3500/month:

    http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/nvn/apa/3529396875.html

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0

    Many Franks Says:
    27

    Patriotz: Very interesting! The bundles of $20 bills keep clogging up my toilet; I knew there had to be a better way.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1

    “At January’s -0.8% monthly decline pace it would take about 5 years”

    Price drops in January are typically higher than in the summer.

    Just saying, if prices are going to revert 40%, to quote BTO, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

    And I get downvoted. Yeesh!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0

    Re: Timing the bottom

    Keep in mind the bottom on a graph isn’t necessarily indicative of when the best deals were had. I’m sure there will be buyers that snap up places 6 months before the bottom is “in”, that end up with better value for the RE buck than those that wait (in fact, I plan to be one of them).

    The guidance that I’ll be using on my purchase is 4 fold;

    1. Can afford it? Keeping it under 4x combined HH income, and make sure I can absorb an interest rate shock, or pay a premium to avoid one.

    2. Can it carry free with a renter, if I decide I want to move and can only sell for a loss? Including prop tax, repairs/maintenance, and any other possible associated costs (no strata fees for me please).

    3. Will it improve my family’s lifestyle? We want to be closer to the city, and want a lot larger than a postage stamp. We’d also like a neighborhood, so Vancouver West is out for now.

    4. Caveat emptor. Spend some money and time making sure there aren’t any massive disasters hiding behind the dry wall, or under the dirt. Look at lot drainage, have the home checked for mold, go over the structure with a fine tooth comb, have my plumber friend check the plumbing, and my electrician friend check the electrical, and don’t hire some ass-hat home inspector out of the Yellow Pages.

    When I find a home that fits those criteria, and a buyer that’s desperate to sell in a market that has shit the proverbial bed, I’ll offer him a stink bid and call him once a month to see if he’s ready to accept it (might need a few of these marks, but eventually one of them will cave).

    Luckily, the alternative is where I’m renting right now, which is pretty sweet, so what’s a guy to lose?

    That’s my plan anyway.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 27 Thumb down 0

    I’m not calling for a return to 2001 real. Some are calling for -40%. I think price-rent will fall 40% for condos and SFH away from the city core, but that does not mean prices will fall 40%.

    A plausible path for Vancouver is a drop of 5% per year for 5 years; in combination with at-inflation rental gains of 1% (let’s assume gains are lacklustre). That’s (tap tap tap) 8.34 years to get 40% reversion. Correct me if my math is wrong.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3

    According to the Teranet data, Vancouver house prices are down 5.1% since the peak reached in June, 2012. I.e., 5.1% in 7 months. That’s pretty major. However, to put the absurdity of Vancouver current level of house prices in its proper context, consider that if house prices were to somehow continue to fall at this rapid rate continuously, Vancouver house prices would reach the year 2000 level in…..10 years.

    Yes, that’s right, house prices would have to plummet at the current rate (and, considering the history of house price changes everywhere, a 5.1% decline in 7 months is properly characterized as “plummeting”) for another TEN YEARS just to get us to a reasonable house price level.

    This is just the beginning people…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 21 Thumb down 1

    taylor192 Says:
    32

    MSP premiums should increase with inflation, the problem is healthcare spending is increasing at ~6% and needs to be reigned in.

    I know we like to talk about government waste, yet 6% healthcare increases are a bigger worry. This is not sustainable, and the only way to reign it in is to make tough decisions about the quality and type of care. The kind of decisions that had a 80+yo woman die in Toronto cause ambulances were redirected to more urgent victims. People are up in arms about her death and demanding more spending, yet her death is a glaring example of the decisions we have to make to keep healthcare spending in line.

    How long before we have the “Quietus” from the novel Children of Men? where elderly who burden the system choose to die in exchange for money to help their families.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 5

    specuskeptic specuskeptic Says:
    33

    Screaming from the top of the page “Home prices in Canada fall for 5th straight month”

    (http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/02/20/business-teranet-housing-index.html)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

    If the HPI continues to trend down as predicted by yvr2zrh
    February HPI YoY %-change predictions:

    Year-Mo: Richmond_SFH   Van_West_SFH   Burnaby_SFH
    2013-02: 928000?(-9%?)  1980000?(-10%)  910000?(-4%?)  
    2013-01: 933100(-6.3%)  1995300(-7.5%)  921800(-2.3%)
    2012-12: 938100(-6.5%)  2004000(-5.5%)  951000(+0.4%)
    2012-02: 1019100(____)  2204500(_____)  948400
    2012-01: 996200(_____)  2156800(_____)  943200
    2012-12: 1003700(____)  2119800(_____)  946800

    looks like some more tanks for the Bear Camp are in order!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

    Developers selling trying to sell direct without marketers and realtors: http://www.hoperty.com/

    Looks like certain middle-men are going to be squeezed out of the business.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

    Short'em High Says:
    36

    @Rate of decline/depreciation

    Keep in mind, word really hasn’t gotten out that prices are even going down yet. Once this sinks in, many people will have the following epiphanies:

    (1) “Oh wait, they’re talking about ME, on the news. My realtor and friends were wrong… OMG, I’m going to be wiped out if I don’t do something!”
    Sell now or be priced in FOREVER!

    (2) Events on the economic calendar will reinforce the trend and disseminate the fact that paper wealth is evaporating along with job income that was sustaining the credit driven prices.

    (3) There WERE NO CASH BUYERS. Price to actual income in the Vancouver bubble will be another driver. The mythical “cash buyers” were a cheap marketing trick that could never be disproven. People will realize that the whole thing is literally a house of cards – a ponzi scheme. At that point, it will be every man for himself.

    My earlier question still stands for those who have talked to their listing agent recently. What is the best argument that you’ve heard for not listing today? Please post!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 50 Thumb down 0

    Anonymous Says:
    37

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Hey You Guys Says:
    38

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Groundhog Says:
    40

    High troll index must = low sales day today

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 1

    Burbs Boy Says:
    41

    Derp “middle men getting squeezed out”

    It is the reality that as business models mature and very slowly figure out how to capitalize on the IT changes sweeping our world that it will have profound effects on what work needs to be done and how goods are sold. I see this daily in my line of work, changes that flatten the sales channel and give direct access for the End User to the Manufacturer. This drives such a huge amount of cost out of the chain that it is inevitable that it will occur. I work with a pretty tech savvy crew and it is still taking us time to truely capture these changes and make them work, but we are doing this every year. Realtors are simply process and information conveyors… they will be replaced by applications that will capture those services in a nice easy to use bundle that the Masses can use… just as it happened (actually is still in the process of happening) with banking, retail sales, etc. Long term Realtors will have to radically change what they are offering (and find a new model that makes money) or go the way of the Dodo bird. Good analogies would be the music industry who did NOT get in front of the curve and has been fighting tooth and nail to hold on ever since… or the print industry which is collapsing in on itself as we speak (some papers are successfully making a transition to a new model). Look to larger (more lucrative) markets (USA) to see this in action already. By Bye Realtors.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    42

    Retirees face years of hardship after savings run out: survey

    Fully 42 per cent of Canadians polled said they have never saved for retirement, including 47 per cent of 55- to 64-year-olds.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 1

    painted turtle Says:
    43

    @Makaya RE: journalist looking into marketing malpractices in Vancouver RE.

    Do you know if she will also investigate the impact of Cam’s lies on the social fabric of the city.
    For example:
    http://www.theprovince.com/mobile/news/vancouver/Vancouver+Mayor+Gregor+Robertson+soon+have+task+force+investigate/7296329/story.html

    ‘However, the results also suggested people think Metro Vancouver is fragmented along ethnic and cultural lines. Two-thirds of respondents agreed that while most people are tolerant of different ethnic groups, most prefer to be with others from a similar background. Almost half agreed that people who live here and don’t speak English aren’t trying hard enough to be part of the community and 55 per cent feel there is too much foreign ownership of real estate. Forty-two per cent of respondents said they had not been to an event put on by an ethnic group other than their own and about a third said they do not have a close friend outside their own ethnic group.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    painted turtle Says:
    44

    Example 2:
    “Over 60 per cent of residents aged 25 to 34 see Vancouver as “a resort for the wealthy,” with “too much foreign ownership,” according to the survey. Frustration around housing is leading many to incorrectly place the blame on foreign owners from Asia, according to Reimer.
    “There is a strong tension around race,” Reimer said. “We have to get ahead of that.”

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/whoarewe/Part+Four+Residents+feel+Metro+divided+along+ethnic+lines+survey+finds/6814996/story.html#ixzz28LXmeHN9

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    @painted turtle

    I don’t know what she’s going to include in her article, but I can certainly pass along any idea, information, or evidence to her.

    Your link is not working.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0

    Vote Down The Facts Says:
    46

    Painted turtle, how could respondents tell whether those who don’t speak English are trying hard enough unless they’re checking individuals over a long period of time? Simply noting that non-English speakers exist isn’t sufficient without knowing how long they’ve been here for. There will always be new non-English speaking arrivals, which would likely bias any casual observations.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 7

    Democrass Says:
    47

    “how could respondents tell whether those who don’t speak English are trying hard enough unless they’re checking individuals over a long period of time?”

    The mere fact that they can’t speak english is conclusive proof that they are not trying hard enough. The should have learned before they got here.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 6

    Vote Down The Facts Says:
    48

    Patriotz, that stat is brutal. Do people expect the government to take care of them during their retirement years? I appreciate that some people simply cannot afford to save, but almost 50% of the most prosperous generation in history?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 1

    Wow. The tax increases are really bothering that bull who posts under various names. I guess s/he agrees with the idea that less money in people’s pockets means less money for real estate… and restaurants, shops, movies, theatre, gas and the rest of the economy. S/he must be a real estate agent. S/he is somewhat aware although the brain isn’t fully functioning.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

    Groundhog Says:
    50

    @VDTF

    “Patriotz, that stat is brutal. Do people expect the government to take care of them during their retirement years?”

    Yes, because they wouldn’t want to put the burden on their already over-indebted kids. But somehow they think the government can magically create money to pay them, they don’t realize that relying on the government is relying on their already over-indebted kids.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    OK. More good news for the bears. This comes from an “exclusive” area of the West side… in an enclave in which the majority of houses have been bought by PRC and sit empty or with one kid in it… you don’t have to believe in HAM to hear me out… but you can believe that there were 3-4 holdout families from the old days that have put their places on the market in time for Gung Hey Fat Choy spring market as their agents have instructed. Today, my friend tells me the PRC families are packing up and going home, leaving their homes, wives and children for another year. No offers on the remaining SFHs now for sale. Not yet anyway. So it’s true Gung Hey Fat Choy saw an influx of visitors but the majority of them seem to be keeping their exposure to high-end Van RE as is.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 5

    Vote Down The Facts Says:
    52

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 26

    Look at this multi-family development in North Burnaby.

    http://mlslink.mlxchange.com/DotNet/Pub/EmailView.aspx?r=1718248214&s=BRC&t=BRC

    There’s a $33k (7%) price drop for this particular listing. Apparently being sold by the developer.

    Note the description “10 homes retaining!” (it likely means “remaining”, but perhaps the other units have collapsed and only these 10 are “retained”, I don’t know). Units in development – 18. So the complex was finished in 2012, but almost half still unsold.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0

    Re #50 Groundhog:

    ““Patriotz, that stat is brutal. Do people expect the government to take care of them during their retirement years?”

    Yes, because they wouldn’t want to put the burden on their already over-indebted kids. But somehow they think the government can magically create money to pay them, they don’t realize that relying on the government is relying on their already over-indebted kids.”

    And yet, many boomers are able to lend their kids money for their first-home’s downpayment. Wait, was it only a “story” fabricated by the media / RE marketing companies?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

    Bag it and tag it Says:
    55

    @Short’em High
    “Keep in mind, word really hasn’t gotten out that prices are even going down yet”

    I think end of year assessment notices will be the wake up call for most. You’ll be able to feel the collective adrenaline shot, in the air.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

    Wakeup call Says:
    56

    Can’t really understand all those forecasts that our market will drop some 5% per year for the next 5 or 10 years. Markets just do not behave like that. None ever, stocks, housing or tulips. The momentum always shifts gears with emotions.
    I think the best example we have is the recent US housing crash, and perhaps our own corrections in 95, 90, and of course 82 which were somewhat faster but still nasty.
    Without any hocus pocus crystal ball stuff, I’ll stick with the US example which saw most of the damage done in the first 18 months and then drop at a slower pace, and then languish.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 1

    @Wakeup call

    The momentum shift in the US was a little different than what you are describing but also much different than the 5% per year x 5 to 10 year concept.

    12 months from peak – average drop: 6.3%
    24 months from peak – average drop: 22.8% (16.5% for year)
    36 months from peak – average drop: 33.9% (11.1% for year)
    48 months from peak – average drop: 34.2% (0.3% for year)

    So it was really after about 12 months of smallish drops where things then opened up and were catastrophic for the next 24 months.

    This doesn’t mean that Vancouver will follow but I would not be surprised if it did, more or less. We’re currently at month 8 and down 7.6% for lower mainland SFH

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 37 Thumb down 0

    Sidelines Says:
    58

    Senior manager leaves MAC Marketing: http://tinyurl.com/9w8yw36

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 0

    RE #58 MAC senior manager leaving:

    “McNeill would not name the senior manager nor say whether he fired the employee or the person quit.”

    So, how do we know whether there’s indeed a senior manager fired?

    “Evidence that the RECBC takes discipline seriously is clear from two a list of actions on its website. For example, the RECBC announced yesterday that Re/Max Select Properties representative Christina Croner was reprimanded and fined $1000 and that Homeland Realty representative Edward Wallace Walker was suspended for one week and fined $1,500 in incidents not related to the MAC scandal.”

    These are ridiculously bad examples of RECBC taking discipline seriously. A $1000 fine? That’s called the “cost of doing business”. One week suspension? That’s called an extra vacation!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 40 Thumb down 0

    Short'em High Says:
    61

    @Bag it and tag it Says:
    …assessment notice adrenaline…

    There are many dates before this one in 2013 but yes, add to point #2, economic calendar:

    From the web site: BC Assessment is a provincial Crown corporation that classifies and values all real property in British Columbia. On December 31, BC Assessment sends property owners a Property Assessment Notice telling them the fair market value of their property as of July 1 of that year.

    It would be interesting to know how long it takes for people to receive the notices and read them. During the income trust stock collapse, people often didn’t realize they were in fact wiped out until they finally opened the monthly paper brokerage statement on the Saturday following. Many were buying those investments with the misplaced belief that they were as secure as inflation indexed government bonds – eg: “buy and forget”. The price collapse information dominated the news cycle every day for weeks, but many didn’t connect the headlines to themselves personally. Many were genuinely surprised that they owned the very thing that collapsed weeks after the event.

    Regarding top reasons not to list. Here’s one. @vangrl’s friends did indirectly suggest a “top reason not to list”. Recall that they were the ones with a property that declined in price and were thinking of buying another property on the dip. Thus, the reason not to list was “we’ve always made money on real estate”, or “we’ve never lost money on real estate” ,or even more simply “real estate always bounces back”. Does real estate always bounce back? I nominate this as a thread topic.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    62

    “I imagine if the shoe was on the other foot you’d not be so demanding.”

    No doubt you wouldn’t think of immigrating to China in the first place, but if you were going to immigrate to another country where English is not commonly spoken, wouldn’t you want to try to learn the language to the best of your abilities before you go?

    Remember I said immigrate not visit.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 3

    Democrass Says:
    63

    “I imagine if the shoe was on the other foot you’d not be so demanding”

    My parents are imigrants and they learned english before the came. Thousands of others have also done so. Why would you consider that demanding?

    I find it totally rediculous that you would not insist that immigrants be able to speak english when they move to an english-speaking country.

    What else do you consider too demanding? Paying taxes?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 4

    Anonymous Says:
    64

    This house in West Van is just ridiculous… I’d rather buy Pam Anderson’s Malibu home for 7.5m. Really really out of touch.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    65

    ” During the income trust stock collapse, people often didn’t realize they were in fact wiped out ”

    The only people who got wiped out were the idiots who were all-in income trusts and leveraged, often as recommended by their “financial advisors”.

    The whole stock market fell just as much in 2008-9 as the trusts had a few years earlier.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2

    bon jovi Says:
    66

    does anyone know anybody that is over 50 and that is not saving for retirement? How they think? How long they think they would be able to work? What is their thought process? I have trouble understanding this. My in laws are retired and i know for sure they saved quite a bit of money but i obviously they are in minority.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2

    Patiently Waiting Says:
    67

    Notice how in Quebec, young people all speak English, regardless of how strongly they feel about their French heritage. The rest of North America speaks English.

    Vancouver is getting known as a place where you might not get served in English. I guarantee you this is affecting tourism or the opening of any kind of corporate operation that requires English speakers.

    This is hurting Vancouver economically.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 25 Thumb down 9

    Anonymous Says:
    68

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Wakeup call Says:
    69

    Thanks Observer #57

    Down 16.5% between 12 months and 24 months after peak puts the fastest portion of the slide prety close to my 18 months. But hey, I don’t mind waiting another 6 months until the meltdown slows down a bit.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1

    Short'em High Says:
    70

    @patriotz Says:
    …wiped out were the idiots…

    The income trust crash is the most similar to the present all in leveraged RE as recommended by their financial advisor realtor.

    It is more similar than the other stock bubbles because people are going to actually be notified by the government that their equity is wiped out.

    There is very little difference between the Minister of Finance announcing your income trust shares tax incentives are now illegal after some fixed date and BC Assessment mailing a notice stating that your home is now worthless relative to the equity you put in.

    There’s not a doubt they are idiots. The question is just how thick their skulls are. There must be a significant population of pea brained bone heads with a head composed of a solid mass of bone 8 inches in diameter and a tiny interior cavity where the pea brain is located.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 4

    Name taken Says:
    71

    patriotz, you are an idiot of you think that “suck it up” is how it works. Taxes will migrate away from BC.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 18

    other ted Says:
    72

    Reminds me of this:

    “At its height, in 1989, real estate in Tokyo sold for as much as $139,000 a square foot—more than 350 times as much as choice property in Manhattan. Such valuation made the land under the Imperial Palace in Tokyo notionally worth more than all the real estate in California. ”

    http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2009/02/what-was-lost-and-found-in-japans-lost-decade

    If you were to ask me what valuation was more ridiculous I would pick the place in West Van.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    Democrass Says:
    73

    “patriotz, you are an idiot of you think that “suck it up” is how it works. Taxes will migrate away from BC”

    LOL. Hey, guy, high taxes are just the cost of living in the best place on earth. If you haven’t go the balls to pay high taxes, you can move east and “migrate away from BC”.

    There is a line up of super rich dudes from all over the world with the balls to buy real estate here and pay taxes higher taxes. Everyone wants to move here. A couple of percent in income taxes is not going to push away the global elite. Not when you can sail in the rain and ski and swim in freezing water (while it’s raining) all on the same rainy day. Did I mention that we have the sea wall? No place in the world has that. It’s worth paying higher taxes to live here.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 36 Thumb down 5

    Vote Down The Facts Says:
    74

    “I find it totally rediculous that you would not insist that immigrants be able to speak english when they move to an english-speaking country.”

    Firstly, there _is_ a basic language requirement for most avenues of immigration – FSW, PR, and Citizenship.

    Secondly, do you expect somebody here on a temporary basis to be fluent in either English or French on arrival? What level of fluency do you expect? Should it be legal to deny somebody entry to the country for not knowing how to spell “ridiculous” or that “English” should be capitalized?

    “What else do you consider too demanding? Paying taxes?”

    Strawman.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 17

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    75

    “Secondly, do you expect somebody here on a temporary basis to be fluent in either English or French on arrival? ”

    No, we’re saying that someone who is immigrating should be as fluent as possible, as I expressly pointed out.

    Or are you saying that a lot of “permanent residents” really only intend to stay temporarily? Well I think we might agree on that.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2

    That history on that house is unreal. I won’t post it here but WOW!

    New Listings 262
    Price Changes 104
    Sold Listings 100
    TI:15364

    http://www.paulboenisch.com

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 117 Thumb down 1

    This 2.1% is the thin edge of the wedge. The second the NDP get in BC’s max bracket will go to 50%+.

    The sad thing is tax revenue will decrease as it always does after a certain level is reached.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 13

    Inventory up 113… Sweet!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 2

    Total days	19
    Days elapsed so far	13
    Weekends / holidays	7
    Days missing	0
    Days remaining	6
    7 Day Moving Average: Sales	117
    7 Day Moving Average: Listings	248
    SALES	
    Sales so far	1260
    Projection for rest of month (using 7day MA)	703
    Projected month end total	1963
    NEW LISTINGS	
    Listings so far	3543
    Projection for rest of month (using 7day MA)	1488
    Projected month end total	5031
    Sell-list so far	35.6%
    Projected month-end sell-list	39.0%
    MONTHS OF INVENTORY	
    Inventory as of Feb 20th, 2013	15364
    MoI at this sales pace	7.83
    

    Tomorrow that 174 sales day from last week drops out of the 7-day average. So, if we ‘only’ get 100 sales, the projected MoI will go back up over 8.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 2

    By 13th business day of Feb:
    2013 vs 2012
    Sales:1260 vs 1526 (-17.4%)
    TI:15364 vs 14436 (+6.4%)

    By end of last month, Inventory was up +5.6% YoY
    Now the gap has re-widened to +6.4%
    will be interesting to watch.
    (Some of us, including me, were projecting TI to drop below last year’s due to decreased listing #’s in early 2013. I’ll be happy to be wrong!)

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 45 Thumb down 1

    Anonymous Says:
    81

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Anonymous Says:
    82

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    Name taken Says:
    83

    Re #77: “The sad thing is tax revenue will decrease as it always does after a certain level is reached.”

    exactly!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 7

    Anonymous Says:
    84

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Anonymous Says:
    85

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Some Guy Says:
    86

    “you are an idiot of you think that “suck it up” is how it works. Taxes will migrate away from BC.”

    Not so much, really:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/business/high-taxes-are-not-a-prime-reason-for-relocation-studies-say.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    From the NY Times article:

    “The notion of tax flight “is almost entirely bogus — it’s a myth,” said Jon Shure, director of state fiscal studies at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a nonprofit research group in Washington. “The anecdotal coverage makes it seem like people are leaving in droves because of high taxes. They’re not. There are a lot of low-tax states, and you don’t see millionaires flocking there.””

    To include some real estate content in this post, I’ve noticed in the area I look at (tri-cities) that there are lots of new listings at the high end of the market (> $1 million), but not much being listed in the lower end SFH market, I wonder if others are seeing the same pattern (smarter wealthy folks bailing, middle class sheep still sleeping?) or if there is any way to track the mix of listings over time.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 2

    Anonymous Says:
    87

    “The sad thing is tax revenue will decrease as it always does after a certain level is reached.”

    Yes but what the Liberals are trying to do is get reelected by balancing the budget. The alternative is they don’t balance it, the NDP gets in and tax rates increase significantly more. The 2% is nothing compared to what you will see with the NDP in. And yes that will mean net tax revenue will be reduced and another one term NDP.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 13

    Some Guy Says:
    88

    Sorry, I meant to also post this relevant quote from the NY times article on the myth of tax flight (@86):

    “To the extent that people leave a state, or shun a potential destination, they do so primarily for other reasons, such as to find **more affordable housing**, better job prospects or a more attractive climate.”

    Emphasis added :)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2

    Democrass Says:
    89

    “Canada is a free country where you can speak any language you want.”

    Speak what you want at home.

    Why should taxpayer pay for translation services in court proceedings, multilingual publications, translators in hositpals, ESL classes and teachers for a bunch of self-entitled rape-the-system immigrants who don’t bother learning the language?

    “You would have fit in well in Nazi Germany.”

    Wrong. The language ability of immigrants was not on Hitler’s mind according to every history book I’ve read.

    “Regardless of how you feel that is what the voting public wants”

    Wrong again. The voting public voted in a government that has made English or French language skills mandatory in new immigrants.

    You don’t know history and you know current events. You must be a real estate debtor.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 48 Thumb down 8

    Democrass Says:
    90

    Look at the listing history of this place (posted on http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress.com/) The asking price rises 300% from 2009 to 2011 when a new house was built at this address. Those were the gold rush days. What price will this owner get for his gamble?

    #6 ) Address:2145 HARRISON DR, Fraserview, Vancouver East

    April 22, 2007 V642727 $658,000 $0 0%
    May 02, 2007 V642727 $618,000 $-40,000 -6%
    May 23, 2007 V642727 removed after 31 days
    January 05, 2008 V682087 $709,000 $0 0%
    February 13, 2008 V682087 removed after 39 days
    April 11, 2008 V700510 $779,000 $0 0%
    April 30, 2008 V700510 $748,000 $-31,000 -4%
    July 01, 2008 V700510 removed after 81 days
    August 23, 2009 V783441 $759,000 $-20,000 -3%
    November 28, 2009 V783441 $749,000 $-30,000 -4%
    December 24, 2009 V783441 removed after 123 days
    February 10, 2011 V868248 $2,398,000 $0 0%
    August 12, 2011 V868248 removed after 183 days
    February 13, 2013 V989991 $1,688,000 $-710,000 -30%

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

    Anonymous Says:
    91

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Anonymous Says:
    92

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    Anonymous Says:
    93

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Patiently Waiting Says:
    94

    The huge emerging problem with languages is elder care. Up until now, there’ve been very few non-English speakers in care homes. Just wait, in a few years the language problem will be a crisis.

    How do you deal with a dementia patient, family too busy to help much, and no ability to communicate with staff? The whole system will be under stress from this.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 4

    VancouverSun: MAC Manager resigns after marketing employees posed as Chinese buyers http://t.co/x6DQ1kB4Pz

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2

    VultureBoy Says:
    96

    FYI. On the MAC facebook page:

    “For over ten years, MAC Marketing Solutions has strived for excellence built on a foundation of honesty, integrity and professionalism. This was rocked 10 days ago when poor judgment resulted in an inappropriate and uncharacteristic incident. I apologize for that incident and pledge that nothing like this will ever happen again at MAC. Having had the opportunity to assess the situation I have taken decisive actions. Although it will take time, we hope that we can earn back our good reputation and your trust. This situation has been difficult for everyone and as a company, we will learn from this, grow stronger and be better for it.

    Regards,
    Cameron McNeill
    President, MAC Marketing Solutions”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 3

    Name taken Says:
    97

    Some Guy #86- first of all, people moving and taxes moving are not exactly the same thing. Taxes are actually much easier to move. What do you think accountants and tax lawyers are busy with? The last time I checked going rate for a good tax lawyer it was $650/hour. Who do you think pays that and why?

    Second, if some newspaper published something then it must be the ultimate truth, right?

    It is not a myth. I know of both current and future dollars that have already left BC because of PST.

    Finally, there is another aspect here- instead of moving taxes folks can choose to simply forgo income. This whole progressive scale is unfair because to sustain higher income you have to spend more of your time and somehow additional time that you don’t get to enjoy life gets taxed at increasingly higher rates. So at some point individuals will simply choose to take the time rather than what is left from the incremental income after unreasonable taxes. In simple terms higher taxes demotivate economic activity. This results in lower tax base which in turn results in lower taxes collected. Not a myth, simple reality.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 10

    painted turtle Says:
    98

    @bon jovi RE: people who do not save for retirement.

    I know several people who are close to 50 or over and spend like there is no tomorrow. There are different attitudes. The most prevalent is a latent form of depression = the ostrich strategy. The task ahead is so demanding that they decide not to think about it. The justifications are many:
    1) I might be dead before age 65, so what is the point.
    2) carpe diem
    3) I still feel very young, I have plenty of time to think about it
    4) The government will not let me down because there are many people like me
    5) if the Jones can spend money on a new flat screen TV, then it means I can do the same
    6) one day I will start investing and my money will grow fast because I will seek the best advice
    7) I haven’t found happiness yet, so surely it is not yet time to think about old age: I must have fun first.
    8) If everything goes wrong, my kids won’t let me down

    I call it because if you evoke the future with them, they get upset, they just clearly do not want to think about it, and those who have good math skills suddenly lose them.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2

    Elephant in th room Says:
    99

    It pretty much goes without saying that the deadbeat retires are going to be almost all white people.

    Immigrants save like crazy and its a lot more common for their kids to feel responsibility towards their elders.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 14

    The hottest thread on a Chinese forum in the past week (well, beside my two threads which are at 129k view counts combined), is about someone bragging about his investment in Las Vegas generating 8% cap rate, which is miles ahead of the 1.5% cap rate he get from his investment property in Vancouver.

    Lots of people asking for PMs of his realtor/property manager’s name.

    Even the local “HAM” is abandoning Vancouver now…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 4

    Some Guy Says:
    101

    @97 “Second, if some newspaper published something then it must be the ultimate truth, right?”

    Well, at this point it is the world’s most reputable newspaper, the NY Times (and the experts and studies quoted in the article) vs. some unsupported anonymous assertions by you.

    I guess people can choose who to believe. Those still on the fence, might want to note your support of voodoo economics in @83 (the idea that tax receipts go down when rates go up and vice-versa), another standard right wing talking point that is sadly at odds with reality for any realistic level of taxation.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 7

    Ahhhhh! Please stop with the old folks, language, and tax talk. It’s booooring and not very RE at all. Seems like everday, late afternoon-ish, the blog gets high jacked with some crap non RE chatter. Come on, people! And if you’re gong to go off topic, for God’s sake at least be entertaining.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 2

    Anonymous Says:
    103

    Lots of knob posts today. I guess local realturds are cruising the blogs rather than dropping off resumes at Starbucks. I sympathize; applying for jobs you’re not qualified for is daunting .

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 3

    Absinthe Says:
    104

    Although that home is hideous, it alarms me that something just 50 years old and ostentatiously and expensively built at the time is considered a “teardown”.

    I have friends in Great Britain living in lovely 200 year old flats which were not built by shipping magnates vomiting money into a pile of marble and gold; certainly, if you’re going high end, expensive usually has a shelf life of more than half a century. Man alive.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

    Vote Down The Facts Says:
    105

    Absinthe, most of the price paid here is for the land and not the structure. Conversely, in London at least, much of the land is owned by the Duke of Westminster and you’re paying for a leasehold.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 1

    Anonymous Says:
    106

    Patiently Waiting Says: “How do you deal with a dementia patient, family too busy to help much, and no ability to communicate with staff? ”

    OK you win the dunce cap for the day. If you have ever been to a health care facility you would realize the majority of workers are made up of non whites who speak other languages in addition to English. One of the reasons for immigration is so we have health care workers to care for the elderly. If you have ever been in a hospital or old age care facility you would see MOST of the staff are ESL. This comment shows how dense some people are.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7

    [Business leaders offer solutions to chronic pension shortfalls]
    The proposals coming from Bay Street on Wednesday include a system for voluntary contributions to Canada’s national pension plan, and compulsory savings schemes like those made popular in countries such as Singapore.
    http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/20/business-leaders-offer-solutions-to-chronic-pension-shortfalls/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    Anonymous Says:
    108

    Name taken Says: “The last time I checked going rate for a good tax lawyer it was $650/hour. Who do you think pays that and why?”

    Someone who is under investigation for tax evasion?

    Otherwise you hire an accountant for 1/10 the cost like everyone else.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    Anonymous Says:
    109

    Patiently Waiting Says:

    “February 20th, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    The huge emerging problem with languages is elder care. Up until now, there’ve been very few non-English speakers in care homes. Just wait, in a few years the language problem will be a crisis.

    How do you deal with a dementia patient, family too busy to help much, and no ability to communicate with staff? The whole system will be under stress from this.”

    have you got any idea what kinda training it takes just to be a caregiver? people pee infront of your door too much, you can not go past beyond your living room.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1

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