BC, hype, supply

Will the Trump brand work its magic in Vancouver?

February 18, 2013 admin

..And what exactly is the magic of the Trump brand?

If you’ve been paying attention to the Vancouver condo market for a while you might remember an interesting twisty tower planned for downtown – the Ritz Carlton was going to be a high end tower with a Arthur Erikson inspired twist.

But in the dark days of 2008 the global economy all of sudden realized it had to pay some bills after a big ‘ol credit binge.

Many projects were affected and the Ritz Carlton was one of the larger ones in Vancouver to be put on hold.

Well, news from CBC says it’s back, but it’s no longer the Ritz Carlton as the developers have purchased the Trump name to stick on it now.

It’s a curious strategy as most of the news from the recently constructed Trump tower in Toronto has been overwhelming negative.

It all started with ‘investors’ complaining they were misled and trying to get out of their contracts by suing the developer who then sued them back.

Buyers then complained to the OSC but were told there would be no action on the matter.

Then there’s the falling glass.

It will be interesting to see if the Trump brand has a more magical successful effect here on the west coast.

Hopefully so because I for one would like to see some towers that vary from the standard clones on our skyline.

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UBC in Crisis Mode

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It failed in Toronto, so NO.

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Yalie

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My prediction: the project will get 2 stories off the ground before being abandoned, just like it was for most of the last 20 years.

This site is cursed.

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“It failed in Toronto”

Au contraire, it worked very well in Toronto. Nothing attracts stupid, greedy fools like the Trump brand.

But the Toronto project was at the right time in the market cycle while it may already be too late in Vancouver.

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Short'em High

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Playing the Bankruptcy Game for Fun and Profit

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/02/15/bc-notbankrupt.html

“Unless I win a lottery, there’s no job that I can get that can, you know, satisfy this debt.”

“The only reason I went bankrupt is because I trusted the [bankruptcy] trustee … he gave me bad advice.”

The new couple bought and sold a half-million dollar home, which was in his wife’s name, for a profit. Morrell said most of the money went to cover mortgages and other costs.

“This [questionable bankruptcy] happened extremely easily,” she said. “And it could happen to anybody.”

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Bo Xilai

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The Trump Brand is the real estate version of the Nigerian Letter Scam.

It’s designed to only attract and entrap the truly moronic, greedy and clueless.

Anyone with half a brain will avoid it like the plague.

Those who fall for it are too embarrassed to come out as “victims”.

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J

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Trump entering the market is the “jump the Shark” event that everyone will point to 3 years from now when the market has bottomed out.

I love the “Nigerian Letter Scam” reference by Bo

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Anonymous

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Trumps brand is so tainted now it shows how clueless these developers are. Pretty much every project with the Trump name has been a big loser for investors over the past 5 or more years. These properties usually sell for less than 50 cents on the dollar if they get completed at all. It should be good for the Vancouver lawyers though.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/05/19/judge-allows-florida-case-against-trump-to-proceed/

After the Fort Lauderdale building ran into financial trouble, Mr. Trump exercised his right to terminate his licensing agreement and removed his name from the building, which remains empty and unfinished. Dozens of buyers lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in deposits, and they are now suing Mr. Trump, claiming he deceived them about his role.

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RFM

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Regarding the Trump Tower Las Vegas

Hit by the 2008 crash, early buyers sued (unsuccessfully) to get out of their deals:
http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/aug/30/las-vegas-trump-tower-victorious-lawsuit-remorsefu/

and now, they are selling the units as timeshares, clearly reflecting that they can’t sell them legitimately as stand-alone units

http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2012/sep/06/trump-tower-las-vegas-strip-sells-300-units-timesh/

A very thorough piece about Trump Tower and Las Vegas in general:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/mick-brown/8822323/Busted-flush-Las-Vegas-on-a-losing-streak.html

I agree with other commentators, I would avoid this place like the plague. And I, too, predict it will never complete, leaving a half-built skeleton with a 10 storey deep garage below it.

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Anonymous

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Some people have found a way to make money from Trump projects.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aY.tf4kEIyPk

Robert Cooper says he has found a way to make money in South Florida’s real estate bust. Cooper, an attorney in Aventura, Florida, sues for refunds on deposits in the nation’s largest condominium market…
Condos on which they made deposits of up to $1,000 a square foot in 2006 are now selling for $125 to $350 a foot, said Jack McCabe, a real estate consultant in Deerfield Beach, Florida.

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UBC in crisis mode

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Media’s role

Now it is time for CBC and CTV / Global TV to do a thorough investigation about Trump scams, to redeem themselves as trust-worthy information source.

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Anonymous

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@Yalie: Yes! Every time someone tries to haul the tarps off that site my bear heart goes pitter-pat. It’s cursed indeed.

How far back can we follow its history? Before it was Trump it was Ritz-Carlton; in 2003 it was purchased by Holborn Group; in 2000 it was purchased by Cadillac-Fairborn. (See this summary from 2005.) Anyone have its history going back to the ’90s? This really is Vancouver’s construction boom/bust poster boy.

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Many Franks

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Sorry, that last anonymous was me.

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rumblefox

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yep… this site has had one failure after another – I remember driving by half built projects when I was still in high school – 20 years ago. putting the trump name on this building is one of the most asinine ideas ever. you just have to google trump toronto and see the sh*tshow that the project in Toronto has become.

something like the W Hotel brand might make sense here but Vancouver is at over capacity for hotels in any case.

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mac

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Wakey wakey bears: Some guy named Chris Bullard has just posted this on the MAC Marketing facebook page about the letter he sent to the competition bureau. Those same numbnuts who were supposed to do something about the stranglehold RE boards have on sales info which went nowhere: The Federal Competition Bureau of Canada has commenced an investigation concerning the marketing fraud MAC has been engaged in, here’s the letter I got back from them: Our File: R619171 Dear Mr. Bullard: Thank you for the information you provided to the Competition Bureau regarding MAC Marketing Solutions. The role of the Bureau, as an independent law enforcement agency, is to ensure that Canadian businesses and consumers prosper in a competitive and innovative marketplace. Information brought to our attention by consumers and businesses is very important to our work as it contributes… Read more »

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asalvari1

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ok, I am at loss here, can someone help me understand the following:

What mac did was dishonest, but it was not advertising. It was news coverage produced by major news channel. MAC did serve bogus information in dishonest setup. HOWEVER, its burden of the new channel to weed the bad from good data and ensure truthful coverage. Thus, I have several questions :

1. Why everybody is super excited on MAC being penalized based on marketing rules, this was NOT marketing (officially).

2. Why nobody is talking on the news agency work ?

In fact, I am completely pissed off the news channels that were 1: produced such a garbage, 2: copied the garbage from each other without any background checks. WTF?

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N

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@asalvari1

It’s nice when journalist get it right, but they have no legal responsibly to do so. People often lie to the media. Think about murderers who falsely claim to be mystified by the disappearance of their victim and beg the public for help. Or think about the lead-up to the Iraq war.

On the other hand, there are various laws and regulations covering situations in which a person knowingly lies for financial gain.

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Anonymous

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“MAC better come clean, cause it’s starting to get ugly.”

I think this is already ugly for Mac. Their brand is toast. What developer would bring them on now? They are damaged goods. Their license in under review. Pretty tough to sell a condo with no license. On top of that no news cast is going to be filming their line ups and project launches anymore. Regardless of what the fallout of these investigations is Mac is done in my opinion.

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Odnoc_Reggolf

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The best thing for MAC to do would be to spend some big advertising dollars with local CBC and CTV television stations. This gesture would probably be highly welcome in cash starved news rooms and get MAC back on the good side of these broadcasters. This would ensure that Cameron McNeil continues to get favorable air time as an “astute real estate observer” for his quote-worthy statements.

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HAM Solo

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http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/11/high-income-couple-has-to-deal-with-some-real-estate-headaches/

This is an ugly story. Note that the Alberta couple has dropped $270,000 in value on a $510,000 British Columbia property they rent out only in the summer (in the winter there are no takers).

The location is not disclosed, but my guess, South Okanagan. What a perfect place for the real shit to start hitting the fan without the MSM catching wind of it. Note that the downpayment on that place was $190,000 … seemingly conservative. Except when you start paying $500K for a property that only rents in July and August for $2000/week (before expenses), you are in for a world of trouble.

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addair

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I’f love to see the Trump Tower built.
It would be a cool looking building to break up the monotiny of the same old.
And it would be even cooler “if they build it and they won’t come”.
Can’t think of a better way to add some 500 units to inventory in one swoop.

That said, does anyone know the consrtuction schedule or if the design has changed from the last concept?

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“Dozens of buyers lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in deposits, and they are now suing Mr. Trump, claiming he deceived them about his role.”

Commonplace and again indicative of the stupidity of those who buy into Trump projects. Trump’s role in these projects (if any) is spelled out in the contracts, which these people (or their lawyers) were supposed to read before signing.

Having the Donald’s smiling face on the marketing material does not constitute deception in any legal sense, any more than it does for other celebrity marketers.

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RFM

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Regarding the Trump Tower Las Vegas

Hit by the 2008 crash, early buyers sued (unsuccessfully) to get out of their deals:
http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2011/aug/30/las-vegas-trump-tower-victorious-lawsuit-remorsefu/

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RFM

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and now, they are selling the units as timeshares, clearly reflecting that they can’t sell them legitimately as stand-alone units

http://www.vegasinc.com/news/2012/sep/06/trump-tower-las-vegas-strip-sells-300-units-timesh/

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RFM

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A very thorough piece about Trump Tower and Las Vegas in general:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/mick-brown/8822323/Busted-flush-Las-Vegas-on-a-losing-streak.html

I agree with other commentators, I would avoid this place like the plague. And I, too, predict it will never complete, leaving a half-built skeleton with a 10 storey deep garage below it.

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RFM

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Holborn has not updated its website and identifies this building by a different street address than everyone else seems to use.

http://www.holborn.ca/developments/upcoming-projects/1151-west-georgia

Bubble? What Bubble?