BC, debt, presales, prices

It’s a good time to be a lawyer

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98 Comments

Looks like we’re at that point in the housing cycle again…

Pre-sales buyers (including former PM Kim Campbell) are suing a developer to get out of their pre-sales contract now that the condos they bought are worth less than they agreed to pay.

And of course the developer is suing them right back to enforce the contract.

Campbell put down a $368,000 deposit in October 2007 for her unit, valued at purchase at about $1.8 million, Baynham said. The unit was promised for completion in December 2011, he said, but only completed in mid-January 2013.

The lawsuits come as housing sales in B.C. have dropped by 24 per cent in February 2013 from a year earlier, the B.C. Real Estate Association said last week, while prices have dropped eight per cent.

The downtown Vancouver highrise condo market seems to have been particularly hard hit. According to the blog Vancouver Condo Report, February MLS figures show highrise prices downtown have dropped by about 18 per cent over the past 12 months.

“Nobody would get out of any real-estate transaction if the value of the unit, albeit delivered late, is more than the purchase price,” Baynham said.

“The perception of my clients, and I don’t know if it’s true or not, is that they can’t sell these units for what they purchased them for, and therefore they want their money back.”

Of course, the justification for escaping the contract isn’t that the value of the property has gone down – the buyers claim is that the completion date was delayed without proper notification. The Developer disagrees:

However, the developer’s lawyer, Ken McEwan, said there was no late completion, no failure of disclosure, and Campbell and others have “simply overlooked” terms in the original contract.

“People are perfectly happy in 2007 to sign a contract in the belief that the market will keep going up and they will make money,” McEwan said Saturday in an interview.

“And we say, there was no failure of disclosure, and we are relying on the contract that everyone entered into back then, and allocated the risks.”

McEwan added that the developer is counter-suing Campbell to enforce her purchase deal.

Read the full article in the Province.

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g

“Egg on the faces of all those who laughed at the proclamation that Whalley will soon be the next Yaletown.”
Surrey will always be Surrey no matter how many high rises are built.There is just too much “trailer trash”there.

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patriotz

“I think the conservative government has solved the language problem going forward by requiring English or French proficiancy in new immigrants. ”

It was already virtually mandatory for independent immigrants, and is still not required for other classes.

All talk and very little walk, but it seems to be working as seen from your posting.

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Bag it and tag it

“A 50-storey building is being planned for Surrey Central next to the new library and new City Hall. The building will be a hotel, condos, and offices”

Egg on the faces of all those who laughed at the proclamation that Whalley will soon be the next Yaletown. In fact, I may head down there this weekend to watch the girls walk by in their Lulus, while sipping a low fat, no whip, carmel macchiato.

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Democrass

I think the conservative government has solved the language problem going forward by requiring English or French proficiancy in new immigrants. Hopefully this language issue will fade away in time.

While I hate what the Cons did with real estate, so far I like what they are doing with immigration.

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bon jovi

@short new cars is like high potent drugs to some people. real story, friend of mine. in love with new grand cheeroke. but does not have even for admin fees and destination charge let alone a deposit. desperate to get a new car. does not want to entertain entry level model that is 40 k but it has to be top, fully packaged model that is 60k. problem is that that is very popular vehicle and chrysler keeps interest rate for financing for that particular model very high for todays market at 4.9%. so here is the solution that he figures it out. get this. he will refinance the mortgage and try to get more money as a HELOC loan, ALready has HELOC that is maxed out from 2 years ago. Thinks the property went up in price within this… Read more »

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Turkey

@@Vote Down The Facts,

> Where’s the rush to the exits we’ve been told about?

Richmond.

For new builds, the next shoe to drop is probably the re-introduction of the PST (including the transitional rules) on April 1st. For example, none of the ~dozen vacant or incomplete spec-builds in Strathcona are listed on MLS right now. I suspect a bunch of them will try their luck again after April 1st.

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@Vote Down The Facts

> Where’s the rush to the exits we’ve been told about?

Richmond.

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space889

@Knucklehead80 – The guy posting that comment is not Chinese. Ok maybe he looks Chinese but he’s not Chinese, he’s a Canadian. Or in a political incorrect term – he’s a banana (or a twinkle in US). Personally, I totally understand why his Chinese patients want to speak Mandarin with him over English. Most of them, even the UBC stdents, don’t speak English as first language and therefore uncomfortable describing everything in English as they don’t feel they can do a proper accurate description, and likely afraid they wouldn’t understand everything in English either. I would think that as a doctor, he wouldn’t want to misdiagnose patients or have patients not following instructions properly due to mis-understanding/mis-translations. I have been in Canada for over 25 years now, I work in English only environment and is consider fluent, yet I still… Read more »

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Vote Down The Facts

“How about the title topic of this thread for starters?”

Hardly.

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b5baxter

@Anonymous1 Says:
“Is it me or listings seem stuck in the low 16,000 range.”

The same thing happened last year. In mid March the inventory stalled before taking off again. Maybe related to spring break?

Inventory increased on average 20/day over the last seven days.
Last year it was 15/day during the same seven day period.

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spit

#77 – Good to be out

Best analysis/lol comment of the year!

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@vanpire

I’m glad you enjoyed that piece. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion. Heaven knows there have been plenty of incorrect predictions made on this board. And you can’t predict the future any better than that woman on global. So, we’ll have to wait and see exactly what happens.

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vanpire

This morning on Global News the resident “business expert” (the one with a mandatory british accent) asked everyone not to panic – although the prices will drop this year, there will be no US-style crash.
The reason?
Baby boomers who were expected to enter the market in droves are healthier and wealthier than everyone expected PLUS there are adult children living with them who cannot afford to move out, so there – nothing to worry about.
Truly hilarious shit, totally made made day.

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Many Franks

@Short’em High:

“The problem is the incentive [to save] is not there right now with rates the way they are. The incentive is to borrow and it’s a problem,” said Robert Kavcic, senior economist with BMO and one of the authors of the report.

“You can’t fault Canadians for not doing the right thing.”

BMO… Hey, that rings a bell… Where have I heard that acronym before? Oh yeah:

Over the weekend, Bank of Montreal cut its five-year fixed rate by 10 basis points, from 3.09 to 2.99 per cent. That’s the lowest the rate the bank has offered for a posted rate since the start of 2012.

“Our message to Canadians is simple,” BMO vice-president Ernie Johannson said. “Go fixed, go five, lock in now at a terrific rate and become mortgage-free faster with a shorter 25-year amortization.”

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Q

A 50-storey building is being planned for Surrey Central next to the new library and new City Hall. The building will be a hotel, condos, and offices.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/03/18/bc-surrey-new-complex.html

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Short'em High

@Road Observer #74, Re: gym membership and new luxury car.

From

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/02/09/canadas-cheap-car-loans-has-eerie-trappings-of-housing-crisis/

“Today you can afford just about anything if you don’t have to pay for it right away.”

Those that take on these luxury car credit schemes will find they’ve actually chained themselves to a 3000 pound financial boat anchor when the financial tide finally rises above their nose. A few months of driving a fancy car to the gym membership will be paid by future years hopeless grinding poverty with no money for gas and food let alone a gym membership.

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patriotz

“Strangely enough this was produced by a mortgage broker.”

That would explain a clanger like “Income and Expenses: For each $100 earned $163 is spent (per household)”.

There are similar issues with some other graphics, but still it’s nice to see someone in the RE business not wearing rose-coloured glasses.

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Guy Smiley

Canadian Debt Infographic

Nothing much new here, but it’s always nice to see things in pictorially. Strangely enough this was produced by a mortgage broker.

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Guy Smiley

1

“the exclamation “holly sh*t” can be used in more then one way here, no ?”

Maybe you’re confusing ‘holy shit’ (exclamation) with ‘wholly shit’ (more of a declaration). Both might be appropriate. I pray these overpriced condos will have leakage problems in which case we can then call them ‘holey shit’ (description) as well.

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patriotz

“Where’s the rush to the exits we’ve been told about?”

How about the title topic of this thread for starters?

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asalvari1

@good to be out

“That equates to a cost of $41 per sh*t averaged over a 10 year period.”

the exclamation “holly sh*t” can be used in more then one way here, no ?

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Good to be out

@ 2 Anonymous

I visited the developers web site. At $1.88M suite 3603 works out to $1880/sqft (unbelievable). I tried to view the floor plan but you have to pay a $50 subsciption first (absolutely absurd). But let’s say, for the sake of argument, the bathroom in this suite measures 8 x 10 or 80 square feet. That’s $150,000 “worth” of floor space.

That equates to a cost of $41 per sh*t averaged over a 10 year period.

Cost of toilet paper not included!

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James

Even Prime Ministers can be the Greater Fools:

– greedy (wanted big money doing nothing)
– arrogant (started the case which is destined to be lost)
– stupid (in 2007, it was pretty obvious that the bubble is here, and it wont end well. she will lose the case)

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HAM

Short em,

I have all the data for the MLS in the lower mainland and Whistler/Pemberton. But its too much work to post everything because I dont have much time. The database can only be accessed through windows explorer and I am always out on the road and only post here with my phone. I try to give as much info as possible when I am able to.

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Road Observer

From my observations on the road here in Vancouver, I am seeing more young people driving BMWs and Benzs especially at gyms. I get a little bit jealous sometimes. How is this possible?

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