FFFA! Best Free Mortgage Tower Plans


It’s that time of the week again, lets do our regular end of the week news round up and open topic discussion thread.

Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:

Canada: 3rd most overpriced
Inventory graph update
More Vancouver Facts
Estimate with Zoopraisal
Not your 90s market
The biggest condo sale
Newest price drops: free mortgage
5 more towers at Metrotown?
Magic marketing on the coast
Who lies and why?
Renters: copy your landlords ID
Squamish Data
Slowing at the debt trough
Has Vancouver hit bottom?
Largest price declines
Realtor Hunger Index

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

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I was recommended this blog by my cousin. I am no longer certain whether or not this put up is written by him as nobody else recognize such designated about my difficulty. You are wonderful! Thanks!

Son of Ponzi

Richmond has one of the highest child poverty rates in BC.
And BC has the second highest in Canada.
With all the businesses being demolished and replaced by condos, I’m not sure if there is much employment left in Richmond.
I know many of the companies have relocated to Burnaby.


“Richmond… with average 33k salary per family in that city”

Note how in a few posts 33k “average income” has morphed into 33k “average salary per family”.

FYI the official median family income for 2006 in Richmond was $67,627, average family income was $74,790.


That’s 2006 census data and we don’t have the 2011 numbers yet, but I doubt they are going to be down. Things haven’t change that much since.


I declare to the CRA. I just mention it because I am an example of someone who lives here buts whose income is not local. Not that I wouldn’t show up in the average income stats sooner or later.


I earn nothing here

You mean you are a nonresident and domicile in the US, or do you declare your income to CRA? Because if the latter you are earning income here as much as an EA programmer.


I don’t hate Vancouver. I moved here because I liked it. And my income all comes from my US company. I earn nothing here. That said, I’m not stupid enough to buy a house here at these prices.


“There are 475 houses in Richmond between 1 million and 2 million dollars on the market, with average 33k salary per family in that city, who is buying these properties?”

Actually nobody is buying them. How many sales where there last month in Richmond in that price range? Not many.


“who is buying these properties?”

Some ways come to mind:
1) People who had prior higher incomes and saved it.
2) People who are not reporting, or are convincing their banks, that they currently have higher incomes.

Until recently banks were using #2,3 to complete “stated income” loans. That is now more difficult to achieve due to a recent government crackdown on these types of loans, so we are left with #1.

I know we all hate Vancouver, but people will work in other locales, make their money, and move to Vancouver, accepting lower incomes in lieu of a perceived better lifestyle. We should acknowledge that goes on to some degree.

UBC in Crisis Mode

There are 475 houses in Richmond between 1 million and 2 million dollars on the market, with average 33k salary per family in that city, who is buying these properties? Something is not right.

Do your own search:


@ Guy Smiley: I’ve actually been out of the country for the last three weeks, just got back into Sydney yesterday on the always lovely YOW->YVR->SYD route. I don’t know if anyone has Ottawa data handy but things are crazy in Eastern Ontario, I’ve never seen so much property for sale back home. It looks like the market down here is finally starting to stall again, rate cuts had been providing some momentum for investors to pick up the slack from the completely MIA first-home buyers. There have been four straight weeks of declines with prices down 1.91% over that time, a few more weeks of down movements and the year to date price increases will be wiped out (up 0.82 per cent in 2013). Of course this is being dismissed by the usual suspects as noise, we’ll see what… Read more »


How about Richmond?

Look at it this way: high prices in the desirable areas amounts to a tax on lazy/ignorant investment decisions.


China’s economy grew at its slowest pace for 13 years in 2012, and it has so far surprised on the downside, bringing warnings from some economists that the country could miss its growth target of 7.5 per cent for this year.


Son of Ponzi

High Incomes!
How about Richmond?
Average income 33k, Buying Million $ homes.


‘Surrey only 1/3 of Vancouver West’

– expected density increases
– higher incomes
– speculation

It’s not just a HAM problem, look at Main/Cambie at 16th. High prices and urbanists convinced Vancouver has arrived.


if **real** rates go up,

Assume that inflation is able to be controlled, that’s all that matters. Ass u me

Son of Ponzi

Is your real name Tsur?

Son of Ponzi

Why is Surrey only 1/3 of Vancouver West?
First it’s more like 1/5.
Second it’s FENG SHUI.


Yalie: “As I’ve said before, the effect of foreign money on this city’s RE prices is undeniable. The only question is the size of the effect.” The real estate industry answers that question for you. Not publicly but with their actions. Do you ever notice what the real estate industry lobbies for? They want easy credit with long amortizations. If it was foreign money driving the market why would they bother with this? Did you hear the real estate industry make any noise when investor immigration rules were being tightened? No. But they cried bloody murder when amortizations were shortened for CMHC insured mortgages. If foreign money was driving real estate to any extent the real estate industry would be lobbying for easier access for foreign money and more investor immigration, etc. I have never heard the real estate industry… Read more »


Yalie: “the latter explains why Vancouver and Toronto are so much more expensive than the rest of the country.”

Umm, so property values should be the same across the country regardless of city or location? If it wasn’t for foreign money a house would cost the same in Vancouver as Edmonton?

Maybe you can start out by explaining the difference in price between the different cities across the lower mainland which are all subject to foreign money. Why is Surrey only 1/3 the price of Vancouver West? Why were there price difference pre bubble?

RE Canary

Guess what.
Texas has become a hotspot for HAM.
Sounds familiar?



‘Houston and San Francisco are the nation’s healthiest housing markets heading into 2013. They have solid fundamentals, without the extreme price swings of Las Vegas, Phoenix, or Detroit’

The 10 Healthiest Metros for Housing in 2013
1 Houston, TX
2 San Francisco, CA
3 Bethesda-Rockville-Frederick, MD
4 San Antonio, TX
5 Austin, TX
6 Seattle, WA
7 Omaha, NE-IA
8 Peabody, MA
9 Fort Worth, TX
10 Louisville, KY-IN

Texas is enjoying a high wage oil industry renaissance, as the oil industry is re-tooled for domestic oil originating, refined fuel exports… and in keeping with the central thesis of Dutch Disease.

patriotz, please GFY


““Houston is a boomin’. Housing?”

Housing in Houston looks purty durn cheap to me, pardner.



Stop you are both right. There is excess savings in the world today and China is a big source of that excess. It has found its way into Vancouver directly through property purchases and, more importantly, indirectly through capital flows into the Canadian economy. Both are pretty much over for now as Canada is now widely considered a poor investment largely because of the property bubble.


you guys heard of the Dutch Disease? This is what we’ve got in parts of British Columbia, especially Vancouver Island and the Okanagan, and the whole of Alberta. Not so sure about Vancouver, which is a little more complex. The short of Dutch Disease can be found in the quotations below. The long can be found in this article from Atlantic Mag http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/05/what-if-we-never-run-out-of-oil/309294/?single_page=true ” Petroleum revenues, if they are large, exercise curious and malign effects on their recipients. In 1959, the Netherlands found petroleum on the shores of the North Sea. Money gurgled into the country. To general surprise, the flood of cash led to an economic freeze. Afterward, economists realized that salaries in the new petroleum industry were so high that nobody wanted to work anywhere else. To keep employees, companies in other parts of the economy had to… Read more »


“And yet Edmondton’s prices are still half Vancouver’s prices.”

Edmonton has always been 1/2 as expensive as Vancouver, including 50 years ago when not only the PRC but Hong Kong was dirt poor and nobody tried to explain away the difference by invoking foreign money.