Vancouver Flippers in Trouble

Some of you may recall various ‘flippers in trouble’ blogs during the US bust.

They were popular in California, Nevada and Miami.

These chronicled various sales or attempted sales of real estate that didn’t work out as a road to easy riches.

They were the Nelson laugh of the housing bear.

Well in case you missed it Vancouver now has it’s own version.

condont

Vancouver Flippers in Trouble chronicles local sales or listing prices that work out as a loss. Here’s what they say on their ‘about’ page:

A website dedicated to following the bursting of the Vancouver Real Estate bubble by documenting real-life losses on properties purchased during the bubble.

Know of any flippers in trouble? Enter the details in the comment section or in the contact form below and we’ll try to feature them on an upcoming post.

It’s not just the flippers either, sometimes those have held for a while look to be trying to squeak out without too much of a loss.

Like this place that six years later is asking $100k less than it was bought for, or this place in Spectrum that looks like it’s up for its second sale at a loss!

If you’re looking for the antidote to ‘real estate always goes up’ you’ll find it there!

82 Responses to “Vancouver Flippers in Trouble”

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    Margin Call TIme Says:
    1

    What’s missing is what percentage of net worth was lost by each failed flipper. One $100k loss doesn’t make much difference to a portfolio of $2m. The problem is where undercapitalized amateurs are responsible for fueling most of the bubble through CHA backed loans.

    If CHA backed loans turn out to be a casino credit card for penniless idiots to roll the dice on condo flips with taxpayer money, there really needs to be a crackdown with very broad and brutal consequences.

    The law should be changed to make CHA loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, the same as student loans. CHA is supposed to fulfill a social need the same way student loans do. Therefore, the consequences to borrowers who abuse the system should be similar. Make them pay back every penny until the day they die, whichever comes first!

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    Anonymous Says:
    2

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Anonymous Says:
    4

    Case Shiller has severe lag. Prices today have likely topped for rest of year.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6

    Margin Call TIme Says:
    5

    Despite recent gains, the [Case Shiller] 20-city composite index indicated that prices remain about one-quarter below a 2006 peak.

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/home-prices-leap-in-april-2013-06-25

    But there is now reason enough for Fed to start ACTUALLY tapering stimulus since the regulator of the the US home loan moral hazard has failed to crack heads despite the 2008 worldwide financial crisis caused by pinheads like #2 @Harvey who think home price cost of carry in excess of rent is a good idea.

    Hey @Harvey, you stupid fuck, how far up do you think home prices would be up in Canada and US without the government backed loans. Fuck you, parasite!

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    Margin Call TIme Says:
    6

    RE Flippers.

    If CHA backed loans turn out to be a casino credit card for penniless idiots to roll the dice on condo flips with taxpayer money, there really needs to be a crackdown with very broad and brutal consequences.

    The law should be changed to make CHA loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, the same as student loans. CHA is supposed to fulfill a social need the same way student loans do. Therefore, the consequences to borrowers who abuse the system should be similar. Make them pay back every penny until the day they die, whichever comes first!

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    my god the trolling.

    i almost want this bubble over just to get rid of the trolls.

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    Jeopardy Says:
    9

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    Don’t get too excited about Dallas hitting new highs…

    http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/5716-Charlestown-Dr_Dallas_TX_75230_M76108-34874?row=377

    That is what $1.35 million gets you in Dallas – 6400 sqft of luxury on close to half an acre. Dallas and Denver did not have the crazy price appreciation that most of the rest of the country had.

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    The law should be changed to make CHA loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, the same as student loans.

    That’s a terrible idea. No loans should be exempt from bankruptcy, including student loans. Tuition and student loan debt have grown to massive bubble proportion in the last few years precisely because of policies like this.

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    Burnabonian Says:
    13

    I disagree with Yalie.

    Bankruptcy is designed to help the unfortunate from becoming street people. It’s not a “get out of jail free” card that nullifies all consequences of taking massive gambles with taxpayer’s money.

    If you lose your job at the GM plant and you can’t make your payments anymore, it’s good for society if you’re allowed to start fresh.

    But if your “job” is to borrow a million dollars, abuse a social program to backstop it with a million taxpayer dollars, and then take it to the roulette wheel, the downside to you should be exactly as real as the upside.

    Yes, you and your cantaloupe-sized balls might be given a cool hundred thou despite having done no productive work. But you should also face the risk of losing a hundred thou and having to spend the next 20 years paying it back with interest.

    That single policy change would probably cool 80% of the frothy speculation that takes place in our country.

    (Of course this would be impossible to implement, because there is no reliable test to determine whether someone is a homeowner or a speculator. Which is exactly what draws these vermin to the housing market.)

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    DaMann Says:
    14

    Student loans should be exempt and for good reason. It became popular to leave school at say 22 or 23, declare bankruptcy immediately and kiss off $50k in debt and start fresh. Credit will be back to normal after a few years just in time to start your life in full. Don’t want student loans exempt? Fine, don’t have them government backed then…

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    Contestant #1 Says:
    15

    Bagholders sympathizing with Bagholders?

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    space889 Says:
    16

    @Yalie – then what’s the point of bankruptcy is no loans are discharged?? Are we going back to the debtor prison of the past?

    Also what do you think would happen if all a person have to look forward to is a life of debt slavery? Do you think the person is more likely to redoubt their efforts, work harder and longer, live in poverty to paid off the debt? Or more likely to say screw this, you can’t get blood from a stone and if I’m going to be poor anyways, might as well just work less, get more social welfare, and live the same lifestye without all that hard work required to pay back my debts?

    If you respond by saying then social welfare should not be available to those in debt then what do you would more likely to happen? Those people would work harder or just pack up and leave, or commit more crimes?

    Personally the best option is to prevent these people from borrowing the huge sums in the first place, followed by good risk management practice to ensure those who borrow will pay back the loan, or in case of default, pay the max they can/willing without pushing them over the edge into screw this, no payment, ain’t gonna work just to pay debt mode.

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    Laurey Says:
    17

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    Left already living in San Diego Says:
    18

    here I go again:
    Are you enjoying the shitty weather in the best place on earth ?
    Don’t forget to go skiing in the morning, golfing in the afternoon and sailing in the evening. All in the same day of course.

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    VanRant Says:
    19

    Re: 17 Laurey

    Just blowing more air into the bubble and delaying the Day or reckoning. More damages when it pop.

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    Laurey Says:
    20

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    Very Little Gravitas Indeed Says:
    21

    @8: It’s interesting. During the spring bounce, we had bullish commenters offering actual reasonable discourse (never came close to touching the price:income problem but whatever! it was constructive).

    Now that the bounce is over it’s all just mindless invective. Every time I see one of these posts I imagine it was written by some specer levered to the tits on a handful of illiquid flips desperate to make someone else feel as bad as they do. Sad, really.

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    Laurey Says:
    22

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    23

    #17.
    yeah just pop a pill and everything will be fine tomorrow.
    This is how most disillusional people deal with problems.
    Sorry people, but there are no magic pills and no sugar daddys.
    You will reap what you sow.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 6

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    24

    # 20.
    I think almost all of the bears on this blog will still be alive 6 months from now.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 8

    Laurey Says:
    25

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    Barb Rennie Says:
    26

    Rather than concentrating on the individual unsuccessful flippers, I think it is more important to think about what happens to Canada. I doubt that foreign money will declare bankruptcy, or go on social services. Foreign money will lose enthusiasm for Canada and leave faster than (insert), then spread the word back home that Canada RE is poison. Buyers will be scarce and prices will plummet. For all the bears sitting on the sidelines, it isn’t a good thing because credit will be tight and financing won’t be available.

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    @space889 – I agree. Read what I wrote “No loans should be exempt from bankruptcy”. In other words, a debtor should be allowed to discharge any and all loans in bankruptcy for exactly the reasons you state.

    @burnabonian – read what space889 wrote. The whole idea of bankruptcy is that it provides both a fresh start for the debtor, as well as a system that prevents bad loans in the first place. The alternative is debtor prison, which is what the current student loan system has created due to the absurd new laws that prevent students from going bankrupt. It’s also what you’ll get if you forbid people with bad mortgages from discharging that debt.

    And bankruptcy is not a “get out of jail free card” by any means. It’s fucking awful to put it bluntly. Going bankrupt is a painful, lengthy process that I would wish on nobody.

    The real problem is government guarantees on both student loans and mortgages. Get rid of the guarantees and allow full discharge of all debt in bankruptcy, and you will see that interest rates charged by lenders will raise to reflect the true risks incurred. Which will, in, turn, lower prices for both houses and tuition.

    In short, the government should just get the hell out of the way.

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    28

    What we are witnessing, is the 20 year bullrun in the China shop coming to a crashing halt.
    The Chinese government is trying desperately to shore up the RE and stock markets.
    Remember, after every party, there is a hangover.
    Don’t buy the myth that popping Aspirin will make the pain go away.

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    @Son of Ponzi Says:
    29

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    mosessupposes Says:
    30

    Can someone who has access to the “man behind the curtain” let me know what MLS V1007009 sold for. I’ll send some good karma your way.

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    addair Says:
    31

    RBC says 10-year bond yields will be nearly twice this years low by end of year.

    http://business.financialpost.com/2013/06/24/economists-work-to-ballpark-bond-yields/

    Scary stuff!

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    Anonymous Says:
    32

    #30
    Sold for $867,500 on the 10th of June.

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    Harvey Says:
    33

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    VMD@work Says:
    34

    Taxman to demand more details on offshore holdings
    – Form for reporting foreign income revised to provide more information for audits
    – Art Cockfield, a tax law professor at Queen’s University, said the revised form is “a good idea” and that it will help the government audit certain individuals, but that it will do little to crack down effectively on tax evaders.

    “The tax cheaters, if they are committing the criminal offence of tax evasion, they’re not going to enter into compliance because of a new form,” he said.

    Cockfield said that some of the other measures, such as the whistleblower hotline, are important steps in catching people who are trying to avoid paying taxes.

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    Jeopardy Says:
    35

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    36

    #30
    for how much was it listed?

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    C. LITTLE Says:
    37

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    Anonymous Says:
    38

    #899k

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    Best place on meth Says:
    39

    # 20
    I think almost all of the bears on this blog will still be alive 6 months from now.

    I don’t know, I might die laughing at these stupid cheerleaders any minute now.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    40

    “The law should be changed to make CHA loans non-dischargeable in bankruptcy, the same as student loans.”

    Further to what Yalie said, mortgages are non-dischargeable in bankruptcy in Spain and that didn’t prevent the speculation and bubble there did it?

    The problem is that borrowers are not rational and do not anticipate a situation where they will be unable to repay. The way to discourage irresponsible lending is to make it certain that the lenders lose money if the borrower is unable to repay. That means of course, getting rid of government guarantees.

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    41

    Patriotz,
    The challenge is to separate the speculators from the “true” homebuyers.
    A penalty payment for those who sell before a certain period should be charged.
    HongKong has a 15% tax if you sell before 2 years.
    This would curb speculation and give the government extra revenue.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 4

    space889 Says:
    42

    @Yalie, I agree with what you say in principle, however removing government guarantee also generate a new set of problems.

    Take student loans for example, take away government guarantee and the rates will simply skyrocket. That makes it that much harder for students from poor family to go attend university. Yes, I know it can be done and I’m sure people will pop up saying how they worked 2 jobs while doing a full time engineering degress, so just work harder. But realistically, high education cost is a huge deterrent to higher education for poor families. I myself didn’t do grad school because I didn’t want to borrow the money. I’m of the view that education accessibility should only limit by merit, not one’s financial situation because education is the greatest equalizer and probably the only fair opportunity to all that a government can provide.

    Similarly for mortgage, it used to be that it was very hard for poor people to purchase their own homes in Vancouver until Vancity came along. I still remember their ads about how they were the first financial institution to offer mortgages on Vancouver Eastside. Again, I believe owning have more benefit than renting for a lot of family, even poor/lower income ones as long as the cost is also reasonable to their income. Yes, I know people will say renting is fine, most people in Germany rents, etc, etc. However we are not Germany, we don’t have the kind of rental protection/system they have there and likely never will. As well, relatively speaking a retiree relying mostly on government benefits will likely have an easier time if they owned a place free and clear versus having rent without strong rental price protection. Again, I know exceptions abound – eg. leaky condo, etc.

    So there is a need and place for government guarantees in certain areas like student loan, and mortgages. The issue is how to design a system that help those who truly needs the help, keep other people from getting into trouble, and keep abuse to an acceptable level such that there is net positive to the program.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    43

    “I’m of the view that education accessibility should only limit by merit, not one’s financial situation because education is the greatest equalizer and probably the only fair opportunity to all that a government can provide.”

    Then government should provide financial assistance for those students who truly need it, not enable them to get mired in debt. Once upon a time BC actually did that.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 3

    Devore Says:
    44

    “Tuition and student loan debt have grown to massive bubble proportion in the last few years precisely because of policies like this.”

    They have grown to epic proportions because they are guaranteed by the government.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    45

    On top of free University, poor students in Germany and Austria get a yearly stipend which they don’t have to pay back as long as they finish their studies with a certain grade average.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    46

    I think that student loans default have skyrocket because graduates can’t find decent paying jobs to repay the loans.

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    omfgitslikegrouponbutforcondosftw Says:
    47

    space889: For housing it is easy, just reinstate the original CMHC price ceiling that was removed in 2003. I believe it was $350k for Vancouver, which even 10 years later is a bit high for a program helping lower income Canadians. However, going back to $350k would be a very positive first step for true housing affordability.

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    Anonymous Says:
    48

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    49

    Anon,
    Read the series “The reluctant Hegemony” in the latest The Economist.
    We’re all Germans now.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    HAM Solo Says:
    50

    Maybe I’ve missed a comment on an earlier post. But, please, someone from a bank or mortgage broker, tell me the following. 1) How much re-finance activity is going on now (my guess is zero), 2) How much your actual pre-approvals are dropping for the same income because of higher rates, and 3) what volumes of new mortgage applications you are seeing now (my guess is very close to zero). I might be wrong…but please share.

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    Devore Says:
    51

    “space889 So there is a need and place for government guarantees in certain areas like student loan, and mortgages. The issue is how to design a system that help those who truly needs the help, keep other people from getting into trouble, and keep abuse to an acceptable level such that there is net positive to the program.”

    The problem is you cannot. The government can’t discriminate, and even if they find a way, there is constant pressure to keep expanding government programs and assistance. Every year the circle of eligibility expands. And once the market realizes the government will step up to back any amount of loaned money to a significant portion of their customers, prices WILL go up, which puts pressure on those who do not receive assistance who then turn to the government with their hand out, etc.

    This is the reason government guarantees should be minimal, and assistance programs should sunset, then maybe a new one brought in to address the changing needs. Likewise, all loans should be dischargeable in bankruptcy, forcing lenders to assess and price risk realistically. For the same reason we used to have debt jubilees before there was personal bankruptcy.

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    Barb Rennie Says:
    52

    How about addressing the problem of giving University education to foreign students, not the ones with student visas, but the kind that have permanent residency. The family has their PR waiting for citizenship in Canada, while their kids are getting their university education. 5-6 years later, they leave with citizenship and a university degree back to their home country to work and benefit that economy, not Canada. We need to give a University education to locals, even poor locals, so that we can retain the talent in Canada. Do permanent residents pay the same tuition as a Canadian citizen?

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    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    53

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    New Listings 232
    Price Changes 127
    Sold Listings 111
    TI:18527

    http://www.paulboenisch.com

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    space889 Says:
    55

    @omfgitslikegrouponbutforcondosftw: Yes totally agree!! I think there should also be a loan cap of say 3x, 3.5x, to a max of 4x annual income as well. So the final loan cap is the lower of $350K or 3x/4x annual income. Also, get rid of CMHC insurance for speculators and/or small time amateur landlords that buys 1 or 2 condos for flip/rental. Let private insurer do that market if there is any insurance company crazy enough to do it. Same with 2nd, 3rd, etc houses. CMHC should only really provide insurance for 1st time buyers only and only up to a certain amount. They can do other programs for say purpose build rental housing, co-ops, etc, but shouldn’t really be subsidizing speculators and small time landlords. Yeah, it puts the average guy at a disadvantage compared to big guys for RE investments but then that’s not really the government’s job anyways.

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    space889 Says:
    56

    @Barb Rennie: Yes PR students pay the same rate as Cdn citizens. In fact I think someone reported recently that real foreign students at University of Manitoba was actually protesting this very issue!! The PR students in reality are pretty much just foreign students who intend to get an education and then go back to home country with a Cdn citizenship as a bonus.

    I’m actually very pissed off at some reports that UBC will actually reserve 25% of spaces for foreign students. That’s just totally screwed up!! WTF?! The children of citizens that are funding you are 2nd class and have to line up behind foreigners?? WTF?? Entrance should be based on merit, not how big your wallet is. This is just totally wrong for a publically funded education institution. If UBC was purely private, I can at least tolerate it. But not for a public institution. One more reason why I will not donate to UBC.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    57

    “How about addressing the problem of giving University education to foreign students, not the ones with student visas, but the kind that have permanent residency.”

    Permanent residents are not foreigners. They have the same obligations and are entitled to the same benefits as resident citizens.

    If there’s a problem with some PR’s not meeting their obligations, fine go after them. But to deny legitimate permanent residents an opportunity to better themselves in the same way as anyone else would not only be discriminatory but would make society at large poorer. As does any kind of discrimination.

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    Aleksey Says:
    58

    @space889
    I have to disagree with you. Take a look at the budget of any university in BC and you will find that it’s partly covered by tuition fees from foreigners. My friend who is a foreigner student at UBC pays >25K per year in tuition fees only. Compare it to ~5K for citizens and PR. http://www.students.ubc.ca/coursesreg/tuition-fees-deposits/tuition-fees/

    My university and many others depend on international students. Regarding your remark on PR students, I have to say that I haven’t met students with PR status who has an intention to go back home after graduation, but that’s just my experience.

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    Anonymous Says:
    59

    Happy 18.5k

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    Anonymous Says:
    61

    space889

    UBC is a money making machine. It builds and sell RE to wealthy Chinese and It wants as many foreign students paying high tuition as possible.

    Part of this is to keep fees lower for locals, but most of it is to pay top dollar to the army of administrators and to attract ‘top talent’ like Tsur (ha!)

    http://www.vancouversun.com/health/dominates+salary+rankings/8196320/story.html

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    62

    Anon,
    The downside is that you’d have to go to a School in Germany.
    Here’s the choice:
    Go to German Schools that produced:
    Einstein, Beethoven, Kant, Wernher Von Braun, Nietzsche, Heisenberg, Wagner, Brahms, Schoppenhauer, Goethe, Max Plank, Porsche, Ferdinand Benz, etc, etc.
    Or to go to a Canadian School that produced what?

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    Shibor this Says:
    63

    @patrioz “Permanent residents are not foreigners. They have the same obligations and are entitled to the same benefits as resident citizens.”

    You’re quite wrong. PR’s are technically foreign nationals.

    They do not have the same rights as citizens. E.g. they cannot:

    – Vote or run for political office.
    – Hold certain jobs that have a high-level security clearance requirement.
    – Remain in Canada if convicted of a serious criminal offence and have been told to leave the country.

    In fact Bill C-43 just received royal assent; it will automatically boot PRs out of the country if they receive a jail sentence > 6 months.

    Just the facts…

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    #17

    The People’s Daily

    “The central bank is not a wet nurse to the stock market. If it saves the stock market, it will in fact be harming it,” the paper wrote.

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    65

    Yesterday, detractors said the June TI is way lower than last year’s June TI.
    Fact is as of June 24 TI is 18527. Last year at July 2, TI was 18,800.
    With 6 more days to go, we are on track to do better than last year.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 9

    You can call it something else, and everybody has until now. But that doesn’t change a thing. Trying to solve a debt problem with more debt creates bigger bubbles. In the end, there’s one rule that always applies: credit bubbles lead to debt deflation, and the bigger the bubble, the more deflation there will be. It’s inevitable. And it’s not all bad: it cleanses the system, albeit in a painful way. But the longer you try to postpone it, the more painful it becomes.

    http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/deflation-by-any-other-name-would-smell-as-foul.html

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    Anonymous Says:
    67

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    68

    Anon,
    I knew you would fall into that trap.
    Hitler was born and raised in Austria!
    Bingo!

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    Anonymous Says:
    69

    Shibor those aren’t all “rights”. PRs for all intents and purposes are citizens, some have been in Canada over 60 years, and have never bothered to get citizenship. Why would they bother? They already have valid passports issued in Europe.

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    Dyugle Says:
    70

    http://www.canequity.com/stats/canadian-mortgages/british-columbia/index.phtm
    In response to how the mortgage business is going.
    In a word Ouch!

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    specuskeptic specuskeptic Says:
    71

    @anon and son of ponzi. Every time you run afoul of Godwin, God kills a kitten.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    Laurey Says:
    72

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 14

    Anonymous Says:
    73

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11

    Barb Rennie Says:
    74

    In China and Hong Kong, Vancouver is known for getting an education for your kids, cheap sushi, lots of good chinese restaurants in Richmond, and good clean air. Vancouver is not known for gainful employment, or investing in a business. After your child gets a UBC degree, take them back to Hong Kong or China to make some real money. The parents may buy a house, a car, dim sum, but that’s about all you’re going to get.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 3

    Van coffee Says:
    75

    Barb –
    Exactly.
    In addition, some of them keep the house when they leave and rent it to dumb locals like me.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3

    Barb Rennie Says:
    76

    Barb –
    Exactly.
    In addition, some of them keep the house when they leave and rent it to dumb locals like me.
    —————————

    And you are helping them pay off their mortgage? Those asians sure are smart. Can’t play hockey, but they have the money to buy box seats at GM place.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 5

    Anonymous Says:
    77

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 14

    Anonymous Says:
    78

    At Langara: 20% of the seats are for international students. They have first priority for registration in the courses of their choice.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    Anonymous Says:
    79

    ‘Go to German Schools that produced:
    Einstein, Beethoven, Kant, Wernher Von Braun, Nietzsche, Heisenberg, Wagner, Brahms, Schoppenhauer, Goethe, Max Plank, Porsche, Ferdinand Benz, etc, etc.’

    Your list is curiously missing the most infamous gang of evil criminals the world has ever known. Do I have to tell you who they were?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

    Sunshine 123 Says:
    80

    Re: Barb Rennie #26

    “…Rather than concentrating on the individual unsuccessful flippers, I think it is more important to think about what happens to Canada.”
    Hey racist bitch, don’t ever use Canada as your reason to make Nazi statements. As a Canadian, you certain don’t speak on my behalf…watch your back next time you out walk in Vancouver…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4

    Sunshine 123 Says:
    81

    RE: Barb Rennie #26

    “How about addressing the problem of giving University education to foreign students”…

    you are kidding me, right ? When does a racist cares about education ? If you actually finished high school, you might have developed some insight beyond the ones your incestive family has provided for you…We need a stronger monitoring system on this blog to screen out Nazis like this from spilling their hate on to the public.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Hymie Garshman Says:
    82

    Real estate is great!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

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