FFFA! Rate, Drop, Evaluate, Condos

It’s that time of the week again!

Time for another Friday Free-for-all.

This is our regular end of the week news roundup and open topic discussion thread for the weekend.

Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:

-Poloz: long term rates headed up
-Evaluate my condo deal
-Condo Market Report
-Vancouver housing drop song
-10 reasons the gold bugs lost their shirts
-

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

108 Responses to “FFFA! Rate, Drop, Evaluate, Condos”

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    Many Franks Says:
    1

    Looks like the Macnab bros’ “get drunk in a limo, buy a condo” stunt was so successful that they’ve ditched it and are now trying unmanned drones.

    “We kind of wanted to showcase the properties like Hollywood-style trailers. We just wanted to make them as cool as our properties are that we’re trying to sell,” Jordan said.

    Finally, someone to give the Michael Bay treatment to drizzle on windows.

    The Macnabs are able to fly the drones inside the rooms of homes and condos, but must obtain a special permit from Transport Canada every time they use it for commercial purposes.

    They’re even required to submit a flight plan of the drone’s path through the homes.

    …seems perfectly practicable…

    “Right now the buzz is awesome,” Jordan said.

    Just don’t get your finger caught in it.

    True to form, the MSM basically gives these guys free advertising on the back of a totally manufactured non-story.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 1

    Many Franks Says:
    2

    And on the heels of a lot of “Canadians ready to pay down their debts” triumphalism:

    Fewer Canadians planning RRSP contributions this year: bank polls

    Fewer Canadians are planning to put money into a Registered Retirement Saving Plan this year simply because they can’t afford it, say surveys by two big banks.

    Both Scotiabank (TSX:BNS) and Bank of Montreal (TSX:BMO) say many Canadians have other expenses, such as car payments and paying down debt, that are preventing them from making a contribution.

    Scotiabank found that 31 per cent planned to contribute to their RRSP, down from 39 per cent last year. BMO said 43 per cent of those surveyed planned to contribute, down from 50 per cent in 2013.

    …and that’s the numbers of people *intending* to contribute, which is not to be confused with the number of people who actually do.

    A new survey found that 53 per cent of Canadians still haven’t opened a TFSA and the main reason is not having enough money, according to ING Direct. The yearly limit for a contribution to a TFSA is $5,500.

    Worth repeating: most Canadians haven’t even opened a TFSA. That’s staggering.

    Meanwhile, Royal Bank’s (TSX:RBC) annual RRSP poll found that more than half of Canadians said saving for retirement was their top priority, compared with 48 per cent who were focusing on paying off debt. That’s a reversal from last year when debt reduction outranked retirement savings.

    However, credit monitoring agency TransUnion has predicted the average consumer’s total non-mortgage debt will hit an all-time high of $28,853 by the end of 2014.

    Summary: Canadians overwhelmingly are concerned about huge debt and insufficient retirement savings, but are proving totally unable to deal with either.

    And let’s not pretend that the two-latte-a-day savings plan is going to turn this around.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 3

    I think our ideas of retirement are going to change due to new longevity technologies that are on the way. I think many of us are going to live far beyond what the actuaries are predicting. The whole concept of Freedom 55 will seem absurd by the end of the next decade.

    I think a lot of people won’t even retire, they will just work less in their retirement years.

    The other way to avoid that is to keep ahead of the curve and save, build your wealth early and let it grow. That’s my plan because I’m staying around till at least 120 and hopefully 150.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 20

    I think our ideas of retirement are going to change due to new longevity technologies that are on the way.

    You and Ray Kurzweil, huh?

    A couple of years ago, I was on the ferry to Bowen Island for a sailboat race. All of the skippers were aging boomers, and every table I passed hosted a conversation about who’s got cancer, dealing with arthritis, or the finer points of browbeating your doctor into approving knee surgery.

    This is what aging looks like now. It’s impressive. It’s also unutterably expensive, and it’s breaking the health-care system. If you’re curious about how health care will evolve, I’d recommend focusing on economics instead of science fiction.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 46 Thumb down 2

    RealityCheck Says:
    5

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 26

    RealityCheck Says:
    6

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 26

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    7

    #4
    bang on!
    All this longevity comes at a price tag that will ruin the economy.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 4

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 18

    Ponzi, the whole idea that government should provide everything to everybody is insane. The existing systems will have to change. CPP can’t last as it currently is. We’ll have to keep bumping up the age that people get benefits. Public sector pensions will have to change. Retiring with a gold plated pension at 55 is no longer reasonable. It made sense 50 years ago, but not with the current demographic trends. And finally, health care is going to have to change. I think we are going to be faced with some tough decisions going forward. The government won’t be able to provide people with the absolute best medicine and technology.

    If your life plan is based on government fixing all your problems, you might be in for a bit of a shock when it doesn’t turn out that way. My retirement plan will assume that I am completely independent and not reliant on others. I live a healthy lifestyle for those reasons.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 16

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    10

    Dave,
    This reminds of the yogurt commercial way back.
    The 100 year old Russian ladies claiming they owed their longevity to eating that specific brand of yogurt.
    Turned out they all lied about their ages.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3

    ….The 100 year old Russian ladies claiming they owed their longevity to eating that specific brand of yogurt. Turned out they all lied about their ages…..

    And the yogurt.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 3

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    12

    # 11
    good point.
    Just like the Realtors, whose pictures on their business cards are at least 20 years younger.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 1

    RealityCheck Says:
    13

    dave:

    Simple solution.

    Bases personal tax on wealth and not income. The uneducated masses who are the bottom 80% are too blind to see this.

    In our extended families, the richest people are the ones with the lowest working incomes. Furthermore, they all qualify for baby bonuses, pharmacare, etc. Yet they live in the biggest houses and drive the nicest cars.

    Too blind i tell you.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 6

    Funky monkey Says:
    14

    Realitycheck I don’t think most people in Santa Monica have ever heard of Vancouver. 23 degree high in Santa Monica today hi of 28 on Tuesday.
    I bet the people down there are wishing they are spending the winter in Vancouver.
    Oh and do an mls search I was down there a few years ago and home prices where the same or less than Vancouver.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 3

    So the headline on the Vancouver Sun website says that Canada lost jobs but BC added jobs in December.

    But full time jobs were -10,300 for the month in BC and part time was +23,100 so that’s a pretty hollow gain. Tough to buy real estate on a part time job isn’t it?

    All the while, starts perked up in December and are now closing in on 19,000 on a trailing 12 month basis.

    From econ 101, when supply goes up and demand goes down what happens to prices?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 2

    @Dave,

    If it doesn’t look like I will make it beyond 120, then I will bury all my gold to find in the next life.

    I met a traveller from an antique land
    Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
    Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,
    Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
    And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
    Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
    Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
    The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
    And on the pedestal these words appear:
    “My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
    Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”
    Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
    Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
    The lone and level sands stretch far away.

    –Shelley

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1

    Ouch!

    Canadian real estate has taken a 10% haircut over the last 10 months just from the drop in the C$, while holders of US equities have gained at least 10%.

    All indications are that the C$ will continue to sink. That will likely put more pressure on nervous foreign holders of Can RE to sell, especially with higher rates looming.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 4

    Statistics Canada says 45,900 jobs lost in December, unemployment rate rises

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-loses-nearly-46-000-jobs-in-december-1.2491374

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    RealityCheck Says:
    19

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 24

    RealityCheck Says:
    20

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 24

    Barb Rennie SS Says:
    21

    To 2.79% 5 yr. NEVER AGAIN (previous post)

    “Asians like free. Hilarious and true. Stating a simple fact does not make one racist”

    Caucasians like to bitch instead of working harder. Stating a simple fact does not make one racist”

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 20

    @20

    Don’t normally respond to “dips” but here goes:

    ” Foreigners will buy on dips ”

    -Even “dips would not be dumb enough to buy with the sinking C$.
    -We just had the worst Can jobs report possible.
    -Higher rates are a certainty.
    -Demographics continue to deteriorate.
    -Affordability remains at insane levels.
    -Despite the recent buying panic by pre-approved borrowers to beat the rate hike, prices haven’t budged.
    -Those rocket scientists who borrowed from the future will create a big gap in demand come spring.

    Could the situation possibly be any worse?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 35 Thumb down 2

    Brian Ripley Says:
    23

    re #19 Reality Check’s “Expect 2.99% mortgages very soon again.”

    Why not? There is a precedent. Check out the 30 year chart of the Japanese 10yr Yield which has a mean of just over 3%:
    http://www.chpc.biz/2/post/2014/01/fed-stress-index.html

    As software “consumes the world” and apps replace labour, we are going to need long term low cost money to start building new social policy infrastructure like efficient buildings, transportaion etc. I live in a 10 year old Vancouver building that uses electric crappy baseboard “toasters” as a heat source. There is a lot of stuff to fix in Canada.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    24

    Who are the job seekers in Canada?
    (for a clearer photo, tab the little icon on the bottom right)

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/jobs/who-hired-who-fired-canadas-labour-market-ends-year-with-a-whimper/article16278774/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    Here we go again with helicopters and RE. Arabs and Iranians will like it.

    http://bc.ctvnews.ca/drones-getting-buzz-in-vancouver-s-real-estate-market-1.1632914

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 6

    RealityCheck Says:
    26

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 27

    RealityCheck Says:
    27

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 32

    space889 Says:
    28

    I have to go with Dave on this one about longevity. John Mauldin’s latest Thoughts from Frontline letter just happens to cover quite a bit about the revolution in biotech and potentially increasing longetivity – read the Age of Transformation part. It’s pretty amazing, though if it does come to pass, our society will likely segregate into a world like Justin Timberlake’s Time Out.

    https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/forecast-2014-the-human-transformation-revolution

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 6

    Canada is about to get punished by the US recovery.

    The media pundits called us prudent for avoiding the 08 crisis, the reality of the situation is that we managed to put it on pause as our debt continued to pile on.

    The problems with “booms” in todays economy is that they are credit fuelled, unfortunately basic arithmetic states that credit growth cannot continue indefinitely.

    The US took its lumps, painful ones, but they delevarged and are ready to enjoy another bout of credited fuelled growth.

    Canada on the other hand has managed to pile on record high mortgage debt, record high consumer debt, all in a time of record low interest rates. Not the wisest of decisions, deleveraging with escalating rates will be exponentially more painful for the over extended consumer.

    Couple this with weak commodity prices and you have a recipe for some pretty poor growth. This is being clearly reflected in the jobs numbers. Not that many expected that abysmal of a release.

    The upside? CAD goes down and Americans begin to buy up Canadian assets again.
    The downside? This does little but benefit the 1% who control 90% of the assets in Canada.

    Its all cyclical, euphoria is in the air. Canada is a safe heaven, not a growth nation. We are the “gold” of countries, shiny and coveted with little else to show.

    And not unlike gold, we won’t enjoy boom times until money flees the equities bubble down south and again pursues safe heaven investments – thats when gold, and Canada, benefit.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 39 Thumb down 3

    space889, I sometimes think we forget to see the forest through the trees. We have guys like jesse giving out financial planning advice, but how often do we consider game changers like an increase in longevity? I don’t think our government is, nor any public sector retirement plan. I certainly don’t think most people are anticipating this. And maybe a lot of people won’t go down the longevity path by choice.

    I think life planning decisions need to take those things into account, unless you’re on the lead bullet retirement plan. Housing is a big part of financial planning of course. What does Vancouver look like in 50 years if people are living to 120 and working till 90? Kids will be moving out of their parents basements at 55 instead of retiring.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 7

    taylor192 Says:
    31

    Can we finally IP ban RealityCheck for this comment in #27?

    I don’t see the value he adds to this site as his posts are consistently voted into neverland. It is time to tell him to find a bull RE site.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 9

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    32

    Dave and space,
    Just don’t think it’s gonna happen.
    Old diseases are making a comeback. There’ll will be pandemic of Alheimer’s and other cognitive related diseases.
    Can’t beat Mother Nature. Enjoy life while you’re still healthy.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2

    /dev/null Says:
    33

    Around here I try to keep quiet and read because RE isn’t my expertise (which I why I’m here). But as someone with some knowledge around biology I have to say that, in my opinion, adding the next 40 years to life expectancy (i.e. from 80 to 120) is going to be a much harder nut to crack than the last 40 (40->80). We can’t do it well in simple organisms yet, so progress in humans seems to be far down the road. I’m happy to be proven wrong, though.

    To me it seems unreasonable (if not financially irresponsible) for pension plans to now be planning that Dave and his peers will live to 120.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 2

    /dev/null Says:
    34

    On topic:

    Stuck: Why Americans Stopped Moving to the Richest States
    http://m.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/stuck-why-americans-stopped-moving-to-the-richest-states/282969/

    Americans aren’t simply moving to the states with the lowest unemployment (Oregon, Tennessee, and North Carolina all have jobless rates above the national average). More importantly, we aren’t moving to states with the best records for low-income families getting ahead. In fact, we’re often fleeing the best places for a upwardly mobile middle class.

    According to Harvard’s Equality of Opportunity Project, the states with the most upwardly mobile cities include Pennsylvania (with five of the top 12 cities), New York and New Jersey (Albany, Newark, and New York are in the top 30). All three states are seeing net emigration, according to the Atlas map. Five of the 11 worst cities for poor children to move into the top quintile are in Tennessee and North Carolina—two of the few states to see more inbound moves in 2013.

    This doesn’t make much sense if you envision American families rushing to the most promising metros. It does make sense if you see American families rushing to the most affordable homes.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

    tedeastside Says:
    35

    99% of people in Los Angeles have never heard of vancouver BC,
    not that an American would ever move to Vancouver anyway

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 11

    UBC in crisis mode Says:
    36

    Talking about jobs (non existed in Vancouver), Canada’s only high tech company CGI is famous now:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/11/us/us-parts-ways-with-contractor-for-troubled-health-website.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    /dev/null, that’s the inherent problem with ‘black swans’. They are pretty hard to plan and make contingencies for. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    We shall see about this one. Here’s hoping I don’t have to bury my pot of gold next to Ozymandius. I want to live a long time because I like me.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 6

    @RealityCheck #25

    ” By the way, do you own your home? or are we just basement swelling armchair economists? ”

    I feel kind of silly responding to a troll twice in one day, but just to set you straight:

    I’m a retired builder, probably three times older than you (yup, believe it or not, not every poster on this site is under 30).

    I was buying investment properties when you were probably stealing hubcaps or bringing apples to your teacher.

    Yes, I own my own home, but I have sold several investment properties over the last 6 years with the proceeds having earned a lot more in equity markets than any RE would have.

    And no, I wouldn’t say waiting for RE bargains after the shakeout is being pessimistic.

    Now fuck off and go back to biting your nails over your next mortgage payment.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 64 Thumb down 6

    @Dave,

    I want to live a long time because I like me.

    I’ll drink to that!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

    I am doubtful that baby boomers are going to be the generation that extends average life expectacy beyond 100. A baby boomer I know told me he expects just the opposite–baby boomers will have shorter life expectancies than their parents’ generation (who live to about 80) and are going to really start dieing off once they hit their 70s. He said this is because a lot of baby boomers have decades of hard living under their belts–they’ve inbibed more on booze and drugs than the generations before them. Many baby boomers in their 50s are still trying to live as though they were in their 20s. Think about all the cougar baby boomer women who go to the bars and party hard. I hate to cite this as an example, but look at the women on Real Housewives of Vancouver–most in their 40s and 50s and boozing it up and partying as though they were in their 20s. Decades of hard partying are going to have to take their toll. The baby boomers are not aging gracefully. I know a lot of baby boomers who are seriously angry about getting old, age is a very touchy subject for them, and they are doing everything they can to seem younger. The baby boomers are a generation who are simply refusing to get old and make way for the younger generations. We see that also with delayed retirement. Boomers are going to be working more in the old age compared to their parents’ generation given boomers’ high debt levels. It may keep them active, which can be a good thing. But working in your 60s can take a physical toll and take years off your life as well. I think baby boomers will put up a good fight and will push off aging (or the appearance of aging) as much as they can. But eventually it will catch up with them and we will see a rapid drop off. People who haven’t taken great care of themselves or people who have years of partying and drinking under their belts can seem fine for a long time and then they hit 70 and it is a rapid decline. So the idea that boomers are going to be extending life expectancy beyond 100 is just not something I see in the cards. Of course there will be exceptions, but I don’t see that becoming a major trend.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 11

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    41

    @33: “adding the next 40 years to life expectancy (i.e. from 80 to 120) is going to be a much harder nut to crack than the last 40 (40->80)”

    Almost all the increase in life expectancy from 40 to 80 years has been the result of virtually eliminating mortality in children and young adults, due to vaccination, maternal and neonatal care, and industrial safety. Not having a world war lately has also helped. We really haven’t gained much ground at actually extending the natural life span.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 36 Thumb down 6

    Randy Randerson Says:
    42

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-loses-nearly-46-000-jobs-in-december-1.2491374

    Looks like our Canadian economy, led by our great leader Harper, is going down the crapper faster than we can say “This time it’s different!” No matter how low the mortgage rate is, if you don’t have a job, it makes no difference.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 2

    Best place on meth Says:
    43

    @Dave

    “My retirement plan will assume that I am completely independent and not reliant on others.”

    Sure Dave, completely independent.

    Except for all those people and companies you’ll rely on to supply you with your food, electricity, gas, communications, durable goods and clothing.

    Unless you’re planning on living off the grid, farming, fishing and making your pants out of hemp.

    If you are then good on you.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 4

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    44

    Further to the life expectancy discussion.
    If you’re ancestors kicked the bucket early, you’re likely to do so, too.
    The Japanese are a good example.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4

    tedeastside Says:
    45

    do all these new immigrants to Canada see pictures of California/Florida and then kick themselves

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 13 Thumb down 9

    BPOM….. ya.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    New Listings 208
    Price Changes 55
    Sold Listings 47
    TI:11953

    http://www.paulboenisch.com

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 83 Thumb down 1

    Johnny-boy Says:
    48

    Psoted this on the wrong day

    I heard something CRAZY today. My wife says a friend, who is trying to sell her apartment, was asked by the Realtor to consider INCREASING the price by 30K. The borrower will get a larger mortgage and then the seller pays back the buyer the $30 k on the side which the buyer will use for closing costs and to pay the mortgage for a year and a half. I would not have believed it if the source was not 100% sound.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 44 Thumb down 2

    Aggregator Says:
    49

    Seems like CMHC has an interest to improve the quality of life in other countries rather then here in Canada.

    CMHC in China

    Working with community organizations, the private sector and all levels of government in Canada, the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has been assisting China in providing innovative solutions to high-rise building developments and construction standards. It's a project that has improved quality of life, safety standards, and environmental practices for millions of Chinese citizens...

    Three weeks of production, and five months in the market later, CMHC has been overwhelmed with contact requests due to the success of the website and search engine marketing campaign. Clearly, The Secret Sauce Factory provided a world class brochure website that enables CMHC to improve the quality of life, safety standards, and environmental practices for millions of Chinese citizens…

    They didn't put two bankers on CMHC's board for nothing you know.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 19

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    50

    Johnny Boy,
    You should write a book.
    Tips like this could make you a billionaire.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    51

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 18

    @Johnny-boy #49:

    “My wife says a friend, who is trying to sell her apartment, was asked by the Realtor to consider INCREASING the price by 30K. The borrower will get a larger mortgage and then the seller pays back the buyer the $30 k on the side which the buyer”….

    Wow, what an awesome scam… er, I mean, idea!

    1. The used house salesperson gets the nice commission on the sale.

    2. When the “buyer” that the used house salesperson is paying off.. I mean, “found” fails to make more than a couple of mortgage payments, the place is foreclosed on and the buyer’s credit is only hurt for a few years. But at least the buyer got 30k out of it, it hey after all that was part of the bargain for the buyer! And probably more than 30k, as I’m willing to bet that the realtor/buyer will “up” the differential they want once your wife’s friend is hooked. Bonus points if the buyer was on his/her way out of the country anyways, and this was a nice way to make a few bucks.

    3. When the banks are left holding a shiat mortgage that is not even close to the resale value of the place, they aggresively start tracing the money and asking your wife’s friend the hard questions. Oh joy!

    Your wife’s friend gets all the pain, after the others got all the gain. She is put in the enviable position of having to defend herself against any army of bank lawyers, and apart from legal fees she eventually has to fork out for a huge settlement. That’s if she’s lucky. If she’s not lucky, as a bonus she also gets a criminal fraud conviction and a permanent record.

    But HEY! Who cares if the seller is held responsible for most of the legal blame, and has to endure a legal circus? At least she sold her place, right? It was worth the risk because… Vancouver? Whut? LOL

    P.S. Perhaps your wife’s friend trusts that the buyer is being honest, is not a fraudster? Makes sense, especially considering how honest the buyer has already proven to be in dealings, like with the bank. ;)

    P.P.S
    Even if the buyer is legit and not a fraudster, of course any legit mortgage has a small possibility of foreclosure. Any. (e.g. In Victoria, it is estimated that 15%-20% of sales last year were foreclosures!) Your wife’s friend can live with the excitement of wondering if the legit buyer made this month’s payment on time, of wondering if today is the day that the bank’s lawyers will be knocking on her door and that shiat will be hitting the fan. After all, the buyer already proved his/her financial acumen, right?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2

    Johnny-boy Says:
    53

    Crikey. The problem is everyone involved in these deals wants it to happen.

    The seller wants to sell, the buyer wants to buy with no skin in the game, the mortgage lender wants the commission, the realtors want the commission, the banks want the business and then try and siphon the risk off to the CMHC. So who is to minding the store? No one. They all have something to gain until it goes sour and the tax-payer is left holding the debt.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 5

    “the tax-payer is left holding the debt.”

    The CMHC (and all taxpayers by extension) is only left holding the bag when the banks have followed all the rules.

    And that is why the banks don’t want to make loans based on fraud.

    If there is fraud involved, or negligence, the CMHC is not going to just roll over. They are going to look at everything closely and put such loss on the banks’ books. Otherwise all the rules are meaningless and the banks have little incentive to look out for fraud, so the banks can just shrug their shoulders and turn a blind eye.

    When the banks are left holding a big loss, they follow the trail to the people who committed the fraud. Those people will likely have done this numerous times. The banks will sue for damages, and criminally prosecute.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 23 Thumb down 1

    Some guy wants your friend to kick back proceeds from a bank loan? What a great idea! I mean, I can’t think of any reason that wouldn’t be OK, the bank gets its money back, right? No reason why that wouldn’t be considered fraud.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 1

    left already living in San Diego Says:
    56

    here is some reality check:

    Best place on earth where you can ski in the morning, play golf in the afternoon and sail in the evening:
    http://www.weather.com/weather/5-day/Vancouver+CAXX0518:1:CA

    Some remote city, but not world class like Vancouver:
    http://www.weather.com/weather/5-day/San+Diego+CA+92109:4:US

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 8

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    57

    There are already about 800 net listings this month.
    Don’t see them reflected on the MLS.
    Probably not enough staff.
    Times are tough with the low sales.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 7

    Just to follow up on yesterday’s employment numbers, in 2013 (rounding to the nearest 000) BC lost 18,000 full time jobs and added 14,000 part time jobs.

    So how is the market supporting all these completions? It would be interesting to know how much the market is supported by astronaut families but it seems like the RE industry and gov’t doesn’t appear to be too interested in finding out.

    Big rally in bonds yesterday (lower yields) but I suspect for the US at least it’ll be temporary and that yields will drift higher over the course of the year, which will pull Canada higher as well, Poloz said as much.

    As it stands currently the bond market supports 5 year fixed rates as low as 3.29%, still a long ways from 2.99% or 2.79% for that matter.

    The fundamentals for RE going forward are terrible and deteriorating.

    Check out this realtor lie, 3rd floor, 650 sq. ft. condo in yaletown just listed about ~15% over assessed.

    http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetails.aspx?propertyId=13949515&PidKey=2079264708

    “Can” be rented for $3000/month furnished according to the listing, of course there’s no way of disproving that except to note that a unit much higher up in the building (looks to be about 15th floor) that is 790 sq ft is currently vacant and has a craigslist asking rent of $1940.

    http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/apa/4275568072.html

    Obviously it’s a lie, and is being pitched as an investment, I work in the investment industry and if I told a lie like that my professional future would be at risk but it’s business as usual for a Realtor.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 38 Thumb down 0

    victoria Says:
    59

    But but wait …. They said that BC was the greatest place on earth. What is going on. We even have it on our license plates.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/07/norway-greatest-place-on-earth_n_4550413.html?utm_hp_ref=canada-travel&ir=Canada%20Travel

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 2

    1)Record $40-million sale of Vancouver condos to Middle Eastern royal signals housing market is peaking

    http://business.financialpost.com/2013/09/20/record-40-million-sale-of-vancouver-condo-to-middle-eastern-royal-signals-housing-market-is-peaking/

    2)Madonna launches fitness club in plug for Toronto’s slumping condo market

    http://business.financialpost.com/2014/01/10/madonna-launches-fitness-club-in-plug-for-torontos-slumping-condo-market/

    3)what soft landing bullish realtors see no slowdown at all forstrong housing market

    http://business.financialpost.com/2014/01/09/what-soft-landing-bullish-realtors-see-no-slowdown-at-all-for-strong-housing-market/

    4)Inside Miami’s famous Versace mansion, which just sold for a bargain US$41.5-million

    http://business.financialpost.com/2013/09/17/inside-miamis-versace-mansion-which-just-sold-for-a-bargain-us41-5-million/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    CRA news

    The good news: CRA To Monitor Electronic Funds Transfers
    10 January 2014
    The Canadian Government is consulting on draft legislative proposals designed to strengthen the Revenue Agency’s (CRA) capacity to combat international tax evasion.

    The plans were first announced by Finance Minister Jim Flaherty in his 2013 Budget. If implemented, a range of financial intermediaries will be obliged to report to the CRA any international electronic funds transfer of CAD10,000 (USD9,222) or more. The new requirements are expected to enter into force in 2015.

    Bad news #1: Whistleblower program aimed at recovering billions of dollars from tax evaders facing delays

    Bad news #2: “Canada Revenue Agency looking to cut auditors despite rise in tax-haven cases” (not gonna insert link here to avoid triggering spam filter)
    January 2, 2014
    The Canada Revenue Agency is planning to cut auditors at the same time it acknowledges difficulty in tracking and collecting billions of dollars in unreported income from domestic and international tax evasion.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    income tax return for aduit? anyone got this letter?

    http://forums.redflagdeals.com/income-tax-return-aduit-anyone-got-letter-1435779/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    Aggregator Says:
    64

    I wasn't aware of CMHC offering private sector assistance in foreign countries. All I know is that they keep saying taxpayer risk and the crowns operations should be reduced, yet every year that goes by the giant squid's tentacles spans out even greater along with liabilities swelling to new record highs.

    It all goes back to a report conducted by the University of Calgary titled The Role of Crown Corporations in the Canadian Economy, that concluded:

    A Crown corporation has partial agency status if it has agency status for some purposes and non-agency status for others. The Bank of Canada, for example, is designated as an agent for fiscal purposes only. This means, for example, that if the bank is involved in a private-sector contract (e.g., the construction of a building), the contract would not bind the Crown. On the other hand, if the bank, say, transacts in foreign exchange markets, it would be acting as an agent of the government and the Crown would be legally bound by the bank’s actions. Similarly, the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) is an agent of the Crown except for its activities involved in the establishment of branches and the employment of agents. This means that agents employed by CMHC are not agents of the Crown.

    So if CMHC agents, as in employees, are not agents of the crown (government), then who are they working for and is there any conflict of interests with regards to private sector and NGO programs who benefit from taxpayer's money?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12

    tedeastside Says:
    66

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 16

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    67

    Ottawa urged to ease fiscal restraint after dismal job report

    Time for…. more “Economic Action Plan” commercials and another few 100,000 TFW’s.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 3

    patriotz @ 41,

    governments will just legalize all drugs, including hard drugs. That will balance it out.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    tedeastside Says:
    70

    wanna really embarrass Vancouver? just compare career opportunities in Vancouver with Los Angeles

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 12

    I’ve updated my whimsical price-rent ratio for Vancouver-area apartments to December 2013.
    http://twitpic.com/drxmuj

    This takes the Vancouver apartment MLS-HPI and divides it by the CMHC surveyed 1 bedroom rent, then normalized to 2005 levels.
    - Peak was about 135 in mid-2008
    - Current value is about 115
    - 2005 was 100
    - The 1990s were bound between about 75 and 90

    To revert price-rent back to these ranges over five years, with 2% annualized rental growth, would require drops of:
    Price-rent_target Change_required_%
    70 -32%
    80 -22%
    90 -13%
    100 -3%

    There are two scenarios I see, one is that the discount rates of the 1990s return as economies improve and labour markets tighten up, in which case prices are due for a drop of around 10-30%. If discount rates can and will remain low for a prolonged period (ie decades), 2005 prices are more reasonable, in which case drops may only be 0-10%. I’m not knowledgeable enough to meaningfully comment on which discount rate is plausible going forward but…if you take the latter camp (and many people are) then, for apartments on a region-wide basis anyways (and YMMV), I wouldn’t be surprised to be apartments at “fair value” before the next provincial election with no worse than -10% price erosion.

    As we have seen in 2012 and 2013, prices don’t move in a straight line, so between 2014 and 2018 or so, if price-rent is to “revert” I would expect YOY price changes to be variable. To take the 2005 scenario that would be an average price drop of between -1% and -3%. That may not seem like a lot but if we have a few “good” (ie flat or slightly positive) years that means a few dogs thrown into the mix. Or it might be a constant plod of between -1% and -2% annualized.

    I don’t know about detached. This is a “vancouver condo info” blog, after all ;)

    My two cents.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 20 Thumb down 5


    Many baby boomers in their 50s are still trying to live as though they were in their 20s. Think about all the cougar baby boomer women who go to the bars and party hard. I hate to cite this as an example, but look at the women on Real Housewives of Vancouver–most in their 40s and 50s and boozing it up and partying as tho”..etc.

    TY, I read enough.
    My observation is that most women babyboomers are juggling work, home, rearing children/teens/young 20′s, caring for aging parents, possibly looking after an ailing husband, filling in functions that a cut to the bone health care/social system in not doing anymore, and dealing with their own health issues due to stress and overload.

    Sadly when times are hard, it seems some need somebody to blame, and women is an easy target (based on a “bar study”?).
    I think what the real frustration is that there is a widening of income gaps, extreme income gaps. Not good for economy or society.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 5

    mls watch Says:
    73

    I sometimes hear my boomer colleagues complain about the “me-me” generation when talking about young people. Well… when I hear the same boomers talking about not retiring at 65 because ‘life would be boring’ or ‘ I need to pay taxes on my 2 million $ house,’ I am wondering…

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 19 Thumb down 9

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    74

    Famous Ironwood mall! :)
    MLS #V1030982

    Don’t miss KINSBERRY! Dlx newer T/Hses just across famous Ironwood Mall, No % Rd & Rec facs nearby. Super for this approx 1560 sf Big size; 3-lvl loverly S-N expos. airy unit. Rare 3-car attach garage. 2.5 full baths, 3 bedrooms & big den. Master bdrm @ quiet rear side. On Main Fl: 9′ hi ceiling, s/steel modern kitchen appls w/gas stove. Cosy elec F/pl. Balc. Lamin wood fl. Qlty granite counters all thru & alarm, b-in vacuum, trendy interior color paints. Esy access to Hwy to (Nth) Vanc & to (Sth) Massey Tunnel. Bal of 10-yr Home Warranty etc. Meas approx.
    ————
    Would you hire this Realtor?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3

    @73

    I hate to fuel an off-topic discussion, but it’s pretty severely messed up when people could consider retiring (which is to say, not working) as altruistic and working as selfish. It’s not like there are a finite number of possible jobs out there to be occupied.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 6

    N, see you at the bar?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    mls watch Says:
    77

    ‘It’s not like there are a finite number of possible jobs out there to be occupied’

    It is the case for at least 80% of the people I know: their company hires a young person when an older employee retires.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    @mls

    That is why you should not base outlook or policy on your own observations: there is just too much noise there. Consider population growth over any long period of time, and then think about how the employment rate has (or has not) changed over the period you are considering and you will see that jobs are constantly being created (and eliminated). Or consider how the unemployment rate changed (or did not change) when women entered the workforce.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    Our premier Vancouver-based company’s stock performance today:

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=lulu&ql=1

    But who needs MSFT, BA, AMZN, COST, etc when we have Lululemon?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0

    Paint My Walls Says:
    81

    Well fellow bears, I think I am in a little bit of trouble with the wife now over bloody real estate.

    Despite knowing for years my position on real estate; the fact that our monthly investment returns and portfolio growth cover our mortgage; despite seeing projection of financial freedom in less than 10 years; and 5 year rent vs buy calculations that see us up 6 figures, my wife wants to buy.

    She has witnessed her young friends have “stability” and “profit” with their decision to buy new builds in Calgary and Toronto within the last two years. Of course, its the classic my house went up 30k (but not accounting for selling and moving costs) as one of them has to move.

    Classic MSM and realtor fed garbage about ‘throwing money away on rent,’ wanting to be able to decorate, being able to paint the walls. Of course, questioning these assumptions are not valid, because ‘she shouldn’t be chastised for wanting what she wants’ (and oh yes, I have tried every angle under the sun to make the case – calm, rationale, emotional, pre-emptive).

    No amount of rationale argument is going to dissuade her. Seeing an extra six figures in her hands because of renting for a few more years, coupled with more flexibility for a better lifestyle (traveling, dinner out, conspicuous consumption), will not even dissuade her. It boggles the mind. And knowing that we are giving up that flexibility (where we currently travel alot and entertain) has not sunk in yet.

    I have her on a trial mortgage budget for one year, and ever time she wants something, I am coming back with, ‘not in the budget.’ If she is comfortable not having a life all so she can ‘paint the walls and have stability’ for the year’ after one year, we may have to buy.

    While I acknowledge my own faults and hers in this financial debate and decision, I cannot help but piss on the government for their inflationary housing policies; the mass media for their RE driven agenda and financial support; for the growth of reality housing and DIY shows (literally, how many can you make); and the RE dominated economy of Vancouver, and in fact, Canada; and the triumph of emotion over reason.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 44 Thumb down 3

    2.79% 5 yr. NEVER AGAIN Says:
    82

    #81 – Tough position and sadly not uncommon. There is so much presure to buy and “grow up”, “settle down”, “build equity” that the pull can become almost unstopable to many.

    There is also a thinly (and at times not so thinly) veiled attitude that renting is for losers who can’t afford to buy.

    At the end of the day, not every decesion in life is (or should be) based on financial sense. If buying sets you back but it makes your wife happy and you both enjoy your life without being streched too thin that who is anyone to say you shouldn’t do it?

    In the end it might come down to what will make the family the most happy?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 1

    space889 Says:
    83

    @George – if you read that John Mauldin piece I posted about the new revolution in biotech then you can see that when those breakthrough comes, the hard partying lifestyle of boomers aren’t going to be a problem anymore. They just need to either inject some stem cells to rejuvante the failing organs or grow a replacement in the lab and put it in when it’s ready. About the only major organ they can’t replace right now is the brain but I’m guessing technique of shortening the telemeres can be used to reset brain cells back to a young age. This is a potential game changer for human life expectancy and you bet boomers will want it and vote to have public healthcare pay for it to boot. Screw the self-entitled young brats as they would say, we are the greatest generation period…..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4

    @Paint

    All painting and most decorating can be undone when you move out. As long as you know you can stay there for a fairly long time, and as long as the money you are saving by renting is greater than the cost of repainting, just go for it. If you are in an older place, and you don’t have particularly unusual tastes, many landlords will actually be fine with leaving it, if you check first. (It saves them having to paint.) I completely redid the place we are in now, including new flooring, moldings, etc.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    space889 Says:
    85

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 15

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    86

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 18

    Paint My Walls Says:
    87

    #85

    Don’t usually respond to trolls…but maybe read the post first Spacey…

    I acknowledged my own and my wife’s faults, hence taking responsibility….

    Never said I was ‘so sophisticated’…but I will take that description as a compliment

    And your comments sure add value – repeating ‘no one ever has to buy’ sure trumps a financial forecast where your net worth has gone up six figures….

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2

    @ Paint My Walls #81

    Don’t even think about it!

    At least wait until late summer.
    You’ll be glad you did.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    90

    @82: “There is also a thinly (and at times not so thinly) veiled attitude that renting is for losers who can’t afford to buy.”

    I always find this funny. If I’m renting a property that I can’t afford to buy, that means it’s costing the owner more than it’s costing me.

    So who’s the winner and who’s the loser?

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 1

    Patriotz: stop injecting logic into these discussion! You can hardly expect graduates of an 8 day Realturd course to cope with logic in addition to their heavy coursework.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 1

    asalvari Says:
    92

    franko@88,

    Can you please elaborate a bit more ?

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0

    @ Paint.
    Yes the budget for home ownership is a must before you buy otherwise you do not know how it will impact your lifestyle. Another thing is you should always rent in the neighborhood you intend to buy; so you find out who the problem neighbors are. You do not want to buy next to a teenage party house where the parents are absent most of the time or a grow op. Living in the area for a year before you buy makes sense. You could perhaps do them both at the same time. As an added bonus every time the landlord needs to fix something, you deduct the landlords cost from your budget to get a real feel for the joys of ownership.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0

    UBC in crisis mode Says:
    94

    Condo price drop

    where is the largest drop in price in metro Vancouver? UBC condos dropped about 5% last year.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    tedeastside Says:
    95

    Seattle has Boeing, Microsoft….Vancouver has 1-800-got junk

    no wonder educated people call Vancouver ‘the mistake on the pacific’

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 15

    Bag it and tag it Bag it and tag it Says:
    96

    @ #48 Johnny_Boy
    “I heard something CRAZY today. My wife says a friend, who is trying to sell her apartment, was asked by the Realtor to consider INCREASING the price by 30K. The borrower will get a larger mortgage and then the seller pays back the buyer the $30 k on the side which the buyer will use for closing costs and to pay the mortgage for a year and a half. I would not have believed it if the source was not 100% sound.”

    Please track down the name of the Realtor. We should be sending this tip to CMHC antifraud:

    On-line: http://www.antifraudcentre-centreantifraude.ca
    Toll Free: 1-888-495-8501
    Toll Free Fax: 1-888-654-9426
    Email: info@antifraudcentre.ca

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 1

    Why don’t you incorporate a baby into the equation and the mother not earning full income for a year, and then incorporate babysitting/baby clothing/toys/furniture into the “trial year”.
    Throw in a leaking roof, broken fridge, and the week ends fixing/renovating something which is hard since you have a screaming baby and/or hyper kids wanting to “do stuff”. Oh yes, you need more furniture now and more stuff b/c you have more room to store more junk.

    If I had a hubby that was like your wife, I would have him guarantee that he is going to stay healthy and stay employed and earn a good income and if still too big expenses he will guarantee to work a 2nd job, b/c I don’t want to work 2 jobs and have the right to be sick now and then. (That is why I don’t buy in this market)

    Some friends only tell the good stuff, and not the bad. It is about ego. I think “ego” has a big play in the housing bubble.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

    alexcanuck Says:
    99

    Paint My Walls @ 88
    Take wifey on a European vacation; Ireland, then Spain. Shortly before you leave pull up a bunch of media articles from shortly before it all fell apart, explaining why it is different there and not a bubble, point out how you can change the places and names and present them as articles explaining why it’s different here and not a bubble. Rich foreigners moving assets, climate, in-migration, growth, new economy, running out of land, all of the talking points were there.
    After seeing first-hand the aftermath of debt-fuelled housing bubbles the only problem you may have is her new desire to buy a really nice villa in Spain for 20% of the bubble price and spend three months a year there!
    I haven’t personally seen Ireland but I have been to Spain during October 2011 and it was really evident then, and from all accounts it’s far worse now. And that is with both the Spanish and the European governments doing their best to delay the reckoning, the full damage and extent of losses is still not recognized. The banks own many thousands, perhaps millions of houses that they can’t sell because once they do they can’t pretend they are worth anywhere near what the books still say they are. Meanwhile they have been looted and destroyed, but officially they will recover their value any decade now and then it will all have been a bad dream.

    Still a great place to visit though! Deals abound, the country, cities and coast are beautiful (away from the rotting looted abandoned developments) and the food is still great.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2

    Paint the Walls Says:
    100

    #98 Squeako…

    Ironically, we have a 6 month old now, and have outlined the need for my wife to go back to work despite her reluctance to do so. If we rent, there is no need for her to work. If we buy, that option is out of the door – we will forever need a second income unless we move to a more affordable area / lifestyle.

    Of course, our friends back east living in small town Ontario (Picton) live on a teacher’s salary with mom at home, 3 kids, and they are building a new home in another small town. Raising 3 kids on 90k (high school teacher with 14 years experience) in a small town is a little easier than raising a family in Lower Mainland or the Lower Island. Kudos to them though, as he wanted to be mortgage free at 40 (which he now is this year) and now as he puts it “has time for travel/visits”. Smart…of course when you buy your house for 175 ten years ago and now sell it for 300k helps with one’s financial freedom.

    If my wife wants this path, we could totally buy in that area, be mortgage free, have one income, and still be comfortable. But alas, that is not what she wants…

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

    @ asalvari #92

    ” franko, can you please elaborate a bit more ”

    Sure, just see post #22.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    alexcanuck Says:
    102

    I see now Paint My Walls is in Ontario. Remove climate as a talking point, add centre-of-the-world and it’s all still valid.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 1

    专业硅胶条|硅胶管|硅胶护套|耐热硅胶管| Says:
    103

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 11

    New Listings 294
    Price Changes 74
    Sold Listings 97
    TI:12078

    http://www.paulboenisch.com

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 60 Thumb down 2

    orthomol Arthro arthritis pain treatment Says:
    106

    arthritis pain treatment Excuse, the question is removed

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 3

    rvorsten rvorsten Says:
    107

    Freedom 55 is so 90′s. The Boomers will be working well into their late
    60′s. People in their mid 40′s are just starting to think about retirement and what that’s going to look like. Too little, too late!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    camping tips Says:
    108

    Thanks for some other superb report. The best place in addition may just any individual wardrobe variety of details in this an ideal way connected with writing? I own a demonstration in the future, using this program . in the search for these information and facts.

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