TD: Houses 10% overpriced nationally

Somebody over at TD bank looked in their crystal ball and saw interest rates rising.

They say that a combination of factors including increasing supply, softening demand and the expectation of rising interest rates mean that home price across the nation are overvalued by about 10%.

It says markets such as Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal and Ottawa are likely more overvalued than markets in the Prairie and Atlantic regions, and will likely see more of an impact.

The national housing market and worries about a real estate bubble have been key concerns for policy-makers for several years.

Recent indicators have suggested the market may be headed for a soft landing instead of a bubble bursting, but concerns have persisted.

Full article here.

127 Responses to “TD: Houses 10% overpriced nationally”

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    UBC in crisis mode Says:
    1

    In January, 2014, 117 detached sold in Van West, average $2.14 millions. This is the separate market which has nothing to do with local economy, income, interest rate, etc. ALL HAM.

    More are coming to North Van, as it is cheaper there (< $2 million).

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 41 Thumb down 10

    “Recent indicators have suggested the market may be headed for a soft landing instead of a bubble bursting”

    So what was the last 5 years for Vancouver condos, and pretty much everything in BC outside of the near-burbs of Vancouver? Chopped liver?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 3

    If it doesn’t impact Tamara Taggart, it’s not important.

    Who cares about Abbotsford….? Tamara doesn’t live there….

    ;-)

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 31 Thumb down 4

    Van Coffee Says:
    5

    I post here infrequently, but read the comments here daily.

    10 years ago I was a HAM denier. Now I have little kids, and one of them is in a private pre-school in the west side and I have spent the last few years living on the west side.

    Unless you live over there or spend considerable time over there, I can see how people would still deny the existence of HAM. I was at an event recently for my daughter’s pre-school. Not all parents are HAM, don’t get me wrong, however it is probably close to 50%.

    I was speaking with one mother there. Here are the facts of her situation. Her spoken english wasn’t that bad – I actually complemented her on it. She owns a house around 33 & Arbutus (I didn’t ask her exact address as that would have been weird). She has two kids (one goes to pre-school with my daughter) and the other (boy) is at Shaughnessy Elementary. She is from Shanghai. Husband is not here. He is in China. She does not work. Her biggest complaint was that her son doesn’t speak enough english at school because all his friends there speak Mandarin.

    This is typical HAM. This infuriates me.

    I am not a racist and I don’t despise the mainlanders that are here. They are generally good people. They are, however, using the deck of cards they have been dealt.

    And the deck of cards is being presented by OUR government to them. This issue is Economic Immigration.

    I am a huge proponent of “good” immigration. I don’t care where people come from. What I care about is people that want to come here to work, PAY INCOME TAXES, and build our society. We need to attract these people. We need to remove people that want to NOT PAY TAXES here, bid up the cost of housing, and make it harder for business and people that work and live here to succeed.

    I am against this “economic immigration”. I don’t care if it’s rich Russians, Chinese, Americans whatever….

    I have been complaining about this for a while now, and moaning about it on this blog and privately to my friends and business associates. Nobody disagrees with me.

    It is not racist, but we need to stop this flood of economic immigrants. Yes most of them are Mainlanders. We need to stop them. They are still the minority and many are not even immigrants yet, so they don’t even have a vote.

    What can be done about it?

    I have never been politically active; however, I am considering publicly taking this cause up because:

    – It is a major issue impacting a large portion of Vancouver.
    – It will resonate with people like me (people that vote that have money).

    I will be labeled a racist for sure.

    My questions for this public forum are:

    Should I pursue this independently or is there a strong independent lobby group that has been formed to address this issue?

    My wife is Chinese (born and works here just like her parents) and she has the same view as me. Does this cause resonate with other local Chinese / bananas?

    Federal government is reviewing / changing the rules to address some of this economic immigration? What is actually happening? My understanding is that many new mainlanders are pursuing the “Quebec Option” yet still moving to Vancouver.

    Any other thoughts?

    Cheers,
    VC

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 145 Thumb down 31

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    6

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 46

    Van Coffee Says:
    7

    SOP –
    you think so?
    The Mainlanders I know are mostly transient. They are here for the kids’ schooling, and then they pretty much leave. They don’t put down roots. Wouldn’t stopping new ones help to end the cycle?

    VC

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 5

    #5 Van Coffeee

    I hear you. I live Van West, children goes to
    schools in West side.

    >strong independent lobby group

    This unfortunately in City of Vancouver or B.C., I know are
    R/E Developer supporting, therefore, welcoming immigration
    and like bike lanes to make gated-community to pump up house prices,
    no matter what if they pay tax or no-tax.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 14 Thumb down 9

    Vancouver home sales jump 30% in January from a year ago, board warns people to ‘price’ home right

    http://business.financialpost.com/2014/02/04/vancouver-home-sales-january-2014/

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0

    Madashell Says:
    10

    “Ottawa to give IRS information on Americans living in Canada.”

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/ottawa-to-give-irs-information-on-americans-in-canada/article16710461/

    Will China be next?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1

    Re Van Coffee.
    This is Vancouver so the last thing people will listen to are facts.
    Here is a great idea though from Mish:
    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.ca/2014/02/barcelona-to-fine-owners-of-empty-homes.html

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    12

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Joe Mainlander Says:
    13

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    born a Vancouverite Says:
    14

    @5 Van Coffee

    I agree with all your comments as I too, was born here. I don’t know if there is a strong independent lobby group that will tackle some of these issues but if you start one, I will support you.

    This parent at your preschool with the son at Shaughnessy – the only reason she is not sending her son to a private school is because he would not pass the English requirement test. That is why she is concerned about his English language ability. You should have asked her if BC medical premiums are subsidized or not due to perceived low income.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 48 Thumb down 4

    tedeastside Says:
    15

    Abbotsford´, God’s chosen people don’t live in Abbotsford…
    God’s chosen people live in Vancouver, according to proud vancouverites

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 8

    UBC in crisis Says:
    16

    “Sales of detached properties in January 2014 reached 728″ according to the RE Board. So 117 detached over 2 million is 16% of all detatched sales in January, 2014 from such a small area.

    Even a few 10 million property sales will screw the average.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 4

    re: #8

    “…and like bike lanes….”

    It is a bit odd ot throw bike lanes in here. After all, HAM tend to view bikes negatively. In that culture they are symbols associated with poverty and get in the way of the big SUVs. It seems that if you believe the whole HAM narrative you would welcome bike lanes.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 9

    Too late Van Coffee. A small group coming and going is one thing. Catering to the free healthcare and education needs of a billion people won’t end soon. And you can’t count on the government to stop it because they can charge an entrance fee to pay for their stupid pet projects be it Olympics, social housing, or whatever, left or right.

    Australia now moves wealthy investor immigrant visa to four point three MILLION DOLLARS and the Chinese are lining up. And the government knows it’s the Chinese too. That’s why the investor visa is called either 188 or 888.

    I’m just going to get a set of rags and start cleaning Beamers, Mercs and Jaquars. That’s my new business model. Buy a condo and start scrubbing.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 12

    Going to get some bristle board n’ write up some signs

    Clean = 清潔

    More clean? = 更乾淨

    My wife cleans too! = 我的妻子也清理

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 12

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    20

    @8: “I am against this “economic immigration”.”

    Sorry if this sounds like a nitpick but officially an economic immigrant is someone not admitted as family class, refugee, or on other humanitarian grounds. That is skilled workers are offically economic immgrants (as they are in fact).

    What you are talking about is investor and business class immigrants.

    No political party is in favour of eliminating investor immigration. Not even the NDP, which on the other hand wants to give priority to family class.

    The Cons are experts at giving the impression that they are going to do something and then doing nothing. Remember the supposed crackdown on bringing in parents and grandparents?

    All political parties give high priority to winning over recent immigrants who still identify with the home country. I guess the question is whether restricting the immigration of rich people would be supported by the great majority of immigrants who aren’t. In the case of the Chinese, I’m not too sure. They likely identify with their own wealthy more than with the rest of the population (including “bananas”).

    I think the best we can hope for is a fairer taxation policy, and the only realistic chance of getting that is from a Liberal/NDP (coalition, minority, whatever) Federal government.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 4

    tedeastside Says:
    21

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 14

    Differences and disaffection will grow, tensions will rise until the point when this idiotic experiment of artificially inhabiting Canada with Chinese and creating monster-society falls apart and escalate to socio-ethnic conflict. After all someone will ask “How come we didn’t see it coming?”.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 29 Thumb down 7

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 6

    Jedi Master Says:
    24

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 23

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    25

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    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 32

    New Listings 251
    Price Changes 56
    Sold Listings 89
    TI:13603

    http://www.paulboenisch.com
    http://twitter.com/BoenischPaul

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 66 Thumb down 1

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    27

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    29

    BTW,
    Vancouver Price Drop is back in business.
    Check it out and show your support for the efforts of The Observer.
    http://vancouverpricedrop.wordpress.com/

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 24 Thumb down 19

    space889 Says:
    30

    @Van Coffee – Sorry but I don’t think the problem is the one you cite. Frankly I think having lots of these rich people coming here is good for local biz and economy. Do you realize how much money are being made off these people from – car dealerships, RE, private school, luxury goods store, local restaurants, etc, etc, etc??

    While they may not pay income tax but they do pay a lot of local sales taxes and generate service jobs.

    The problem and I think this is really what you are gripping about is that they also take advantage of our social benefits lik free health care, subsidies for the poor while living in $3M+ houses, etc. This problem is what should be fixed. However with our universal healthcare system, I don’t think it can be completely fixed so that they pay their fair share. However, simply banning them might have other undesired economic consequences.

    The best way might be to simply slap on huge luxury tax on high end homes and cars and other luxury goods that can’t be avoided by using a numbered shell company. Also, confiscate and fine the hell out of those 19 years racing down roads at excessive speed. :)

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 22 Thumb down 9

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    31

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    Bartleby Says:
    32

    I don’t often comment. But appreciate VanCoffee’s note tonight, and thought I’d add an anecdote, and a question.

    I’m looking at rentals these days because we can’t afford to buy. Even rentals seem crazy expensive–either too ugly, or too small, or in the wrong location for the money. Sometimes I find something in my Goldilocks zone, and when I call to talk to the landlord, most of the time, I encounter HAM. Take this UBC Duplex on Chancellor Blvd for example:

    Listed for 2.1 million on MLS (V998687), but was advertised for rent on Craigslist for $5000/month. Compared to the opportunity costs of that capital, carrying costs of the mortgage if there is one, and all those costs of ownership (including, at UBC, the tick-tick-tick towards the leasehold expiration), that is a BARGAIN! Even though it’s beyond what I want to spend, and not in my target area, I was too curious and had to call. I had a brief conversation with the agent’s assistant, and found out the landlord is in China, and owns several other properties nearby. Her son attends UBC, and currently lives in the duplex.

    Anyway, it is a puzzle to me still–Ms HAM surely could get much higher returns on her $$ with other investments, and you’d assume someone with so much money would have some “know how” about how to buy stock and reap more than 3% … So why wouldn’t she? Something fishy with the blasé attitude towards her investments? Or just really dumb with money? Would love to hear thoughts on this…

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 25 Thumb down 2

    UBC in crisis Says:
    33

    This duplex was purchased only few years ago for about $2.3 millions, and has been on the market for more than a year, asking $2.18 millions. No takers as it is too over priced. A similar duplex next door reduced to $1.89 millions, sold in a few weeks (months?).

    I assume this duplex is not mortgaged.

    If I need to wash $20 millions clean in a rush, do I calculate the returns of investment? No. Just buy a few houses in Vancouver, whatever the price. Forget about ROI!

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 43 Thumb down 3

    Son of Ponzi Says:
    34

    #33
    Bang on.
    Vancouver West.
    One Giant Washing Machine.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 35 Thumb down 27

    Barb Rennie Says:
    35

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 39 Thumb down 52

    tedeastside Says:
    36

    is Donald Trump a racist because he doesn’t like China …..

    can you imagine a Vancouver realtor dissing China like the Donald does… never

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 10 Thumb down 12

    Are you impressed by Donald Trump? Here’s a tweet by him:
    How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s “birth certificate” died in plane crash today. All others lived

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6

    What's with the ski season? Says:
    38

    Space889

    @Van Coffee – Sorry but I don’t think the problem is the one you cite. Frankly I think having lots of these rich people coming here is good for local biz and economy. Do you realize how much money are being made off these people from – car dealerships, RE, private school, luxury goods store, local restaurants, etc, etc, etc??

    While they may not pay income tax but they do pay a lot of local sales taxes and generate service jobs.
    __________________________

    You are incorrect. Half of our government’s revenue comes from personal income tax. A few dollars of sales tax on a cheeseburger is not the main driver.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 23 Thumb down 8

    “BTW, I am a banana – can’t call me a racist”

    I think the post that has 100+ “likes” was the one to present the “racvism” statement, then goes on to say, well I know some will call me racist, somehow that allows him to continue unimpeached.

    I’ve commented for a while here, that comment is extremely problematic. Alas I think I finally understand now, and will bid you all the best. Thanks for everything, Pope!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 37 Thumb down 22

    Wow. In one day this blog becomes HAM believing anti-Chinese. What happened?

    Maybe they’re right, I better buy now before I get priced out by the hordes. What’s Cam Good’s number?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 11

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    41

    @30: “Do you realize how much money are being made off these people from – car dealerships, RE, private school, luxury goods store, local restaurants, etc, etc, etc??”

    Virtually all of the business owners and employees thereof being not-so-rich ethnic Chinese.

    Which goes back to my original point. Politically, it’s not just about the rich ones.

    This is just another variation on an old theme. Interest groups which are organized, share a common identity and can be brought out to vote get catered to at the expense of the general population. Exhibit ‘A’, Crusty’s “EthnicGate”.

    The lower the voter turnout, the more effective such a political strategy is. So it’s really the fault of the 40% non-voting population that politicians pursue such strategies. They want to get elected and it works.

    “The best way might be to simply slap on huge luxury tax on high end homes and cars”

    Great idea but don’t hold your breath. Check out what the tax on a new car is in Singapore, where the government doesn’t have to worry about winning elections. As for high end houses, even the NDP backed off of this in the 1990’s. The problem with houses, of course, is if you go after the $2 million+ richies the $1 milllion+ greedbag boomers think they’re next.

    Of course neither the current provincial nor federal governments have any motivation to address this issue in the first place.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 4

    @Van Coffee #5:

    I just want to chime in and say I also really appreciate the comments of Van Coffee. I agree wholeheartedly with what you are saying. I really like how you are focussing on economic immigration as the problem and it wouldn’t matter where people are coming from or what race they are. I haven’t had time to give a more thoughtful response or to comment on possible strategies because I have been very busy over the last few days. So I may come back and give you my thoughts in that regard. But I just want to say THANK YOU for being willing to take this on at the political level because it really is an issue that needs to be addressed.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 16 Thumb down 3

    Luxury tax on high end houses with an offsetting rebate on income taxes. Levels the playing field and if you pay no income taxes well too bad!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 18 Thumb down 2

    Many Franks Says:
    44

    @jesse: Please don’t let yourself get chased off by a large number of up-votes on a comment you disagree with. I would miss the analytic perspective you bring to this blog — we need more of it.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 6

    Jesse #39

    I’m not sure to if I should vote your comment up or down. Don’t leave us. You are the meat in our sandwich.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 7

    Dont leave us jesse

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 8

    Boy from Brazil Says:
    47

    Every economically troubled time needs a scapegoat.

    /: #]

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 11

    10 ways Ottawa is changing how to become a Canadian citizen

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ten-ways-ottawa-is-changing-how-to-become-a-canadian-citizen/article16724611/

    About time but is it tough enough?

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2

    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    49

    looks like we can add jesse to the growing list of capitulating bears. Van Coffee is obviously not racist. it’s hilarious that you are quiting the blog on such a phony high horse.

    if people who are always wrong, like jesse, are starting to capitulate then i am honestly and truly starting to get a little bit concerned about this market.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 15 Thumb down 13

    Differences and disaffection will grow, tensions will rise until the point when this idiotic experiment of artificially inhabiting Canada with Chinese and creating monster-society falls apart and escalate to socio-ethnic conflict. After all someone will ask “How come we didn’t see it coming?”.

    Canadians are too polite for that to ever happen.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 7

    You know the left leaning social engineers have won the propaganda war when immigration issues are discussed and “racism” is immediately brought up, regardless of the context.

    I personally couldn’t care if one is from India or Ireland, Canada is bringing in people at a rate that we cannot absorb. PERIOD.

    “They” told us Canada needs high immigration numbers, 25yrs ago, to pay for infrastructure, education, health care and pensions. For the last couple decades Canada’s immigration numbers, proportional to population, have been the highest in the western world and what did we get in return? Schools are crumbling, health care is in crisis, cities are jammed, the retirement age has been increased.

    It’s more than safe to say the social engineers were wrong, but hey, don’t dare point this out because out comes the ‘racist’ claptrap. It’s all they have, they are misinformed, ignorant, self serving and stupid. Characteristics much worse than any racist could ever have.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 34 Thumb down 8

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    Van Coffee Says:
    53

    I appreciate the feedback on my comment.

    @ Patriotz – Yes you are nit picking a little :). I appreciate what I am calling “economic immigration” is really just the “investor class” of economic immigrants, which technically is only one of the various groups of economic immigrants. What I should have said is “this particular type” of economic immigrant.

    Let me reiterate – I am all in favor of bringing immigrants here to work, pay tax, and build our society and to live here permanently. In fact, I directly employ a very hard working, diligent immigrant who is using one of Canada’s immigration programs to settle in Canada, get her permanent residency (while she is a nanny for my family) and the day she gets here PR, she will be back in school to upgrade her nursing qualifications so she can “get back on with her career as a nurse” [her words not mine]. We fully support her in this endeavor.

    My wife’s family came here from China and now my wife, her dad and her mom all earn > $250k per annum and pay lots and lots of income tax. I AM IN FAVOUR OF ALL IMMIGRANTS (CHINESE OR OTHERWISE) THAT MOVE HERE, PAY INCOME TAX AND RAISE THEIR KIDS AND BUILD OUR SOCIETY.

    Jesse – I am really unclear on what I should be impeached for? I think it’s strange that having an opinion on tax policy and immigration policy is problematic? I believe one of the problems in Canadian society is that we don’t have enough people willing to publicly express their opinions.

    Do you think our current immigration system is achieving a desirable end result? I would be really interested in your response.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 33 Thumb down 6

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    54

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    Egg Hunt Says:
    55

    In my opinion, the problems we have in this city, province, and country are inconsitency and lack of fairness on taxes and benefit.

    As some mentioned earlier, as far sa you filed zero, or close to zero
    earned income (which is true), you don’t pay income taxes.
    There’s no further investigation on those who own multi million dollar house, and drive a car that worth whatever 1BR condo in downtown.

    I witnessed they applied for Universal child taxes,
    GST refund, etc. since I helped filoing taxes for my friends and colleagues.

    Some of my other friends say those people will get nailed, because it is so obvious (that they have lots of assets), but nothing ever happened.

    In my country (I am also Asian immigrant, but not from China), to receive any social benefit, EI, deduction on medical fees,
    authority will demand many papers and proof that you in fact eligible for such benefits.

    Many, of course not all, “low income” category citizens who receive benefit, in my opinion, have to go through eligibility test and
    surcharge on assets or purchase taxes on luxury items maybe good idea.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1

    patriotz patriotz Says:
    56

    @53: “Do you think our current immigration system is achieving a desirable end result? I would be really interested in your response.”

    I have already said many times on this blog that I think investor/business immigration should be eliminated and parents/grandparents removed from family class.

    I think this would greatly reduce most concerns people have. But don’t hold your breath waiting for it.

    Well-loved. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 30 Thumb down 6

    space889 Says:
    57

    @Egg Hunt – I agree and I have raised that point previously on this blog. However this will never happen because we have lots of boomers with low income and high assets base and they are not going to vote for that. Since they aren’t going to much income tax in retirement, the funding of social benefits is someone else’s problem and its “damnit, we EARNED the benefits, so shut up you lazy gen X, Y, Z, etc and start actually work!”.

    Off course, you could say well the income benefits test wouldn’t apply to people who paid taxes for x years, etc but then people will protest that’s not fair to stay at home moms, etc, etc and pretty soon it balloons to 5000 pages of rule and regulations…..sigh…

    Even if CRA requires proof of income for lifestyle – eg. How can you live in a $3M+ house with $150K car when you have no income, it still hard to close the loophole since things can be purchased on husband’s name/credit card and that doesn’t count as income. No easy way to really solve this without pissing some special interest groups off.

    A family global income test or imputed income might resolve this…ie. if your family makes $1M globally, even if it is not subject to Canadian tax, you can still get disqualified for benefits. However, I don’t think the asset rich income poor boomers will go for it.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    space889 Says:
    58

    @Van Coffee – ok I have to say I think you are trolling….Probably only about 2% of the working people in this province makes $250K+/annum and you expect me to believe that all 3 members of a family of immigrants from China make that much per annum??? I can believe the daughter/your wife might make that much if she’s a doctor/lawyer/portfolio manager or partner in an engineer firm or owns her own biz. But dad and mom also make $250K+ each??? Sorry…not buying it…

    Also, regarding your comment about your live in nanny…so basically she’s taking a position/job away from a local born Canadian who want to be nurse and lower the wage at the same, and you support that? Seriously, many healthcare/nursing jobs have been taken over by Phillipinos at drastically lower wage and reduced employment for local Canadians. I find surprising that you would support such local “outsourcing”. This is similar to the TFW program except that people get to stay permanently.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 21 Thumb down 12

    You say: “having lots of these rich people coming here is good for local biz and economy. ”

    I disagree. I would agree if the whole family of rich people came here they way other immigrants come here. But in the case of the new global wealthy, they simply look for niche markets to dump their money and bid up prices to preserve their investments. Houses in Dunbar aren’t really worth $4M. Just like flats in London aren’t worth 4M Pounds.

    Unlike previous generations of immigration, the driver of the money–usually the husband, doesn’t come witht the family. He pays no taxes on his wealth to the Canadian government. Especially no income taxes which could climb as high as 50% of his earnings.

    Instead, they pay measly property transfer tax and sometimes even avoid paying city taxes. Esp. if owner is a senior citizen, they can defer and then just leave. Heck! They can just not pay, get rude letters from the city and when the kids’ education is done disappear into the Pacific fog.

    As for restaurants, I’m not seeing the Mainlanders in many other restaurants other than Chinese restaurants. Some of which, as you know, only accept cash at the till. The Milestones on No. 3 Rd in Richmond can’t make a go of it. Explain that?!

    As for stores, I see lots of Mainlanders in the shops on Granville St. Especially this week as there are lots of visitors for New Years. So good for them. They’ll need the business now that retail space has expanded exponentially across the city along with condos. Many mom & pop retailers struggle to survive. They get a few extra sales and pass the GST and HST along to the Feds and Province. Wow.

    It’s not enough to pay for healthcare and education. Europe went bankrupt that way. We will too.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 26 Thumb down 8

    space889 Says:
    60

    @patriotz – I like the US system of investor immigrants – create at least 10 full time equivalent jobs over 5 years. If you can’t do it then please leave. Either that, or just charge like at least $1M or whatever market bearing price for the privilage. The current way produces not enough economic benefits and sells our citizenship too cheap.

    Btw, this is also why there are massive immigrants from HK and Taiwan, they are simply here for the citizenship and social benefits. Very high percentage of the 90s immigrants all went back, as well as their kids who are educated in local universities at the cheap local rate, not foreign students rate. So basically Canada provided all the services and getting no benefits in return. As I said, pretty much 90% of my highschool class who are from HK/Taiwan went right back after university, not paying a dime in income tax after 10 years of highschool and univ.

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    Egg Hunt Says:
    61

    > Space889

    True whatever you said here.
    It will be almost impossible to test by assets,
    and chase foreign income if it is not under your name.
    Everything is legitimate owning assets and declare low income
    and receive benefit.

    This is a bit off topic, but im my country,
    to receive welfare payment, you cannot own a car,
    your house cannot be a luxury one, (not supposed to, I think)
    you are required to make several trips to social services office for interviews and officer will even visit your house periodically.

    For EI payment, you can own car or any houses of course,
    but durin the benefit period, you have to visit EI office every 2 weeks to prove that you have tried your very best to find jobs but couldn’t get any till today and why.

    B.C. income tax for 2014 up, so to buy $1,000 goods,
    paying $1,120 including Gst / Pst.
    Before tax income have to come up with $2,066.
    This is very heavy tax duty for salaried individual.

    I hope I am not sounding being jealous on those assets rich – low income people!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2

    Van Coffee Says:
    62

    Hi Space889,

    I am happy to have disagreements about our views on immigration policy. I am supportive of my nanny moving on with her career because I know that people that move here, obtain more education in any field, secure employment, pay taxes and are highly motivated are the people that we should encourage to come here. We need more of them. I am 4th generation Canadian, but I my family was an immigrant a long time ago. My nanny is not taking anything from anyone. She has to work hard to secure a better future for herself.
    Regards,
    VC

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    @Egg Hunt,

    I hereby nominate your comment for best prose poem.

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    Bull! Bull! Bull! Says:
    64

    patriotz and jesse just don’t get “it”. and by “it”, i mean reality.

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    Absinthe Says:
    65

    Jesse, I hope you don’t leave.

    I did up-vote Van Coffee, but mostly about the problem of investor class immigration. But I do agree with Jesse that racialized component is a smoke-screen – and that focus can cause people to get hurt.

    There is a *class* issue here.

    Of course, I believe this class issue is growing everywhere on the planet, not just here, and that it’s malignant. But in Vancouver we’re seeing it starkly. I’m watching the middle class here die in my generation. That’s not good.

    The economic system we’ve developed worldwide is brilliant at outputting huge quantities of junk; I can say for sure that my house is a trickle-down junk-recipient, since most of our living room is other people’s cast-offs. But our economic system is bad at dignity, health, shelter, nutrition, education, balance, connection, and overall well-being: that was the triumph of the middle class, and I believed we were being told globalization would bring that to the planet.

    Instead, I’m seeing acres of junk, and diminishing everything else. An economic system primed to supply crap to the masses at discount rates. In Vancouver, it’s happening quick. But it’s Hot Money of all sorts that’s the problem.

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    Corrector Says:
    66

    I think Van Coffee said that his wife, her dad and her mom earn $250K+ all together, and not $250K+ each? That’s still quite good income $80K+ each, good on you Van Coffee.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2

    Vulture Fun Says:
    67

    All schadenfreude fans report immediately to Vancouver Price Drop.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 11 Thumb down 3

    space889 Says:
    68

    @Egg Hunt – I believe the 50% income tax rate only applies to people making over $100K/year. Though, I have seen studies where if we add up all the taxes – income, sales, property, fees, etc, etc, the average person pays ~50% which is pretty crazy.

    With regard to social benefits, I don’t know what the best way is, but the current way of just accepting everybody, especially with regard to health care is not sustainable in the long run. it is also generating animosity towards immigrants in general, even those who are working and paying taxes.

    @VC – Well, people complain about TFW taking away jobs and driving down wages. Your case of nanny is not that different from TFW. The motive of most TFW aren’t that much different from the motives of your nanny. So I don’t see why people are really against TFW but ok with this type of immigrations which usually end up with the same result.

    @Absinthe – I believe that’s what Wall-E was trying to convey…. :) Garbage piles higher than tallest skyscrappers in NY.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2

    I’m saddened that, Jesse, you would leave us because of the debate over immigration. Being an immigrant myself, I do believe “locals” (whatever that means) should have the right to voice their opinion on such a sensitive topic on immigration. If I hadn’t felt welcomed when I move to Vancouver in 2006, I would have probably left the country by now, and I don’t believe, apart from a few exceptions, that people in Vancouver are racist, quite the contrary in fact. I find people in Canada, in general, much more tolerant than many other places I have visited.

    The issue raised by Van Coffee is legitimate and suppressing the debate will not make it go away, it will just turn people into more violent form of expression. I tend to trust the Canada Immigration vetting process having gone through it myself, but I’m equally annoyed when new immigrants settle here without any intention to meaningfully integrate in their new country (i.e. learn the language, accept local customs (e.g. equal rights between men and women), and… pay income tax).

    To get back to the real estate topic, it looks like another overpriced market is about to tank… Here is what’s happening in Singapore:

    Why Singapore’s Economy Is Heading For An Iceland-Style Meltdown

    Singapore home sales collapse as cooling measures bite

    Private home sales in Singapore – one of the world’s most expensive property markets – fell more than 80 percent on year in December as the government’s cooling measures began to take effect.

    Prices have started to come down already as well, and the locals (at least the one I know) who are buried in debt are scared, very scared…

    Greetings from bitter cold Winnipeg :)

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    Funky monkey Says:
    70

    Space 889 less than 1% of Canadians make over 200k a year. According to Garth.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    The link to the second article didn’t work. here it is: http://www.cnbc.com/id/101337108

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    lololololololz Says:
    72

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    gordholio Says:
    73

    #69 Makaya: Good to hear from you. For that it’s worth, I agree completely.

    How goes it in Winnipeg? I forget why you moved out there (though I can certainly guess why you’d leave here). Do you save gobs of money? You liking it?

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    tedeastside Says:
    74

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Hi gordholio,

    Everything is great here, apart from the very harsh winter we got this year, but we have so many days of bright sunshine to make up for it. And yes, life is indeed cheaper over here, even though tax rates are higher (which sucks).

    I don’t want to bore anybody here about what I like and what I don’t like living in the prairies. My time in Winnipeg is actually coming to an end as my company is relocating my family to Toronto at the end of the summer.

    At least now I can brag about having experienced the real “Canadian Winter”. But I have to admit though, -37 (-50 with wind chill) is not fun!

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    76

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    lololololololz Says:
    77

    @ted

    it took me all of five minutes to find you on facebook. you actually live in vancouver. stop lying. you don’t actually live in santa monica

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 4 Thumb down 11

    “I read your post and all I see is a race-baiting anecdote about how infuriated you are that ‘uppity’ “Mainlanders” are settling down in your community and using your schools.”

    I think he objected to the fact that people like those he described pay no income taxes in Canada. Using public services while contributing way less than your fair share to public expenses is obviously objectionable.

    Why should those who pay income taxes be turned into the slaves of those who are economically supported by non-residents but who consume public services.

    By the way, owner occupied real estate is expect from the calculation of provincial welfare payments.

    You have people who pay no income tax, who buy multi-million dollar houses in the most expensive hood in Canada, use public hospitals and public schools and get low income benefits all paid for by the dumb Canadians who are affraid to appear racist.

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    born a Vancouverite Says:
    79

    @72 So you have no problem with people coming and using Vancouver schools without paying for them? Do you go into a store and not pay for your groceries or clothes? Taking and not paying is called theft. I pay Canadian income tax, provincial tax and civic property tax to support these schools so I think that if you use them, you need to pay tax. The issue here is taxation and not abusing the social and education programs in this country.

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    Great work by Ian Young:

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1422480/exclusive-how-mainland-millionaires-overwhelmed-canada-visa-scheme

    Quotes:

    Vancouver immigration lawyer Richard Kurland obtained the spreadsheets after making freedom of information requests, then shared them with the Post.
    He said: “The scheme has not been handled properly. The programme is dramatically underpriced.”

    “Canada’s programme was by far the most popular such scheme among rich Chinese. By 2010, applications at the Hong Kong consulate surpassed the combined number received for investor migration schemes run by the US, the UK and Australia.”

    If you don’t think there’s a problem here you’re not paying attention.

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    @space889: “I believe the 50% income tax rate only applies to people making over $100K/year”

    A marginal rate of ~45% would apply to the top income earners, but only on those earnings over ~130K/year. So a person earning exactly 140K/yr will not actually pay 63K (45%) – it will be substantially less. They will only pay 45% on the amounts above ~130K. They’ll pay taxes at the respective lower rates in each of the lower brackets. Actual rates and brackets vary by province and taxation year, so these are not exact, but you’d need to earn considerably higher than 140K/yr to actually approach paying 45% of your income in tax.

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    @BWilson

    Analysis of arrival data suggests that about 99 per cent of applications in Hong Kong were lodged by mainlanders… In British Columbia, preferred destination of most Chinese investors, mainland arrivals outstripped those of Hongkongers by 95 to one. Yet few applications were lodged in Beijing – only 252 from 2009 to 2011, compared to 63,796 in Hong Kong.

    Just plain crooks and scumbags. And we want to welcome them here to help us built better and prosperous society, nice.

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    Van Coffee Says:
    83

    They are not crooks and scumbags. They are just nice people doing as you would do if you were placed in their shoes.

    They are just playing the hand they have been dealt.

    As I said in my original post, WE ARE THE PROBLEM. It is our system. We need to do something if we don’t think the system is generating the desired result.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    lololololololz Says:
    84

    @78; 79

    If you actually want to understand the pros and cons of investor immigrants, read this:

    http://socialsciences.uottawa.ca/grei-rgei/fra/documents/Ware_Fortin_Paradis_Canada_IIP_Report_English.pdf

    Until then, using words like theft and stealing to describe investor class immigrants just gives you away as having a lightweight understanding of the issues.

    @Tedeastside

    If you are going to claim you live in Santa Monica, at least turn on your privacy settings in facebook, which clearly show you live in Vancouver, and post on Vancouver related topics daily ;-)

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    Cam Good Says:
    85

    ha ha ha. My evil plan has worked. Even this blog is full of HAM-sters!

    Ha ah ha. Time to rent that yellow helicopter again.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 5

    …..Space 889 less than 1% of Canadians make over 200k a year. According to Garth….

    Wow, only 1%! Only 340,000 Canadians make over 200k a year. How any anyone afford anything?

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    space889 Says:
    87

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    space889 Says:
    88

    @Funky Monkey – which is why I doubt Van Coffee’s post when he says that his wife’s immigrant family makes $250K/annum each….heck even $250K/annual total between dad, mom, and daughter is a bit stretch given how immigrants generally make much less than locals. Unless his wife came here very young and is now a lawyer/doctor/banker/etc.

    @Engima – I know…I was responding to some other post that claims you need to make $2K to buy $1K of stuff which as we both know it’s not true.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 6

    Can one of the HAM-sters explain why the 2nd most overvalued Canadian market (Victoria) and the 4th most overvalued market (Kelowna) are both Kosher? (No HAM)

    Can you also explain why the average Canadian home price is double the US average? Is there really THAT much HAM out there? Seems hard to believe that 3,400 immigrant investors per year have that big of an effect.

    No one here doubts that HAM exists, or that it’s driving up the prices in some sub-markets. But the fact prices across the country are nuts — including HAM-free zones — suggest HAM is not the main driver of this insanity.

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    4SlicesofCheese Says:
    90

    Ham deniers are the same as Low interest rate and lax mortgage rule deniers. Alone they may not have the power to bring us to where we are.

    But together it is the perfect storm for a Canadian Housing Bubble.

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    patriotz patriotz Says:
    91

    @68: “Your case of nanny is not that different from TFW.”

    I haven’t heard of any Canadian nannies being fired and being replaced by foreign ones.

    Please try to be more subtle with your BS.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 7 Thumb down 10

    “No one here doubts that HAM exists, or that it’s driving up the prices in some sub-markets. But the fact prices across the country are nuts — including HAM-free zones — suggest HAM is not the main driver of this insanity.” # 88

    Just a thought: If ham is driving up prices, would that not displace non hams, as in they are looking for greener pastures elsewhere, ie Kelowna or else, and thereby driving prices up in those places too?

    But, also add the “psycho” effect, “oh, the prices are this and that in Vancouver, therefore, my boonie house must be worth this amount now”.

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    Egg Hunt Says:
    93

    > Engima, > Space889

    Ok, I thought ,marginal tax (48.5%) charged on total gross income from dollar one, this is incorrect, right?
    I have to consider myself lucky, I am earning highest tax bracket salaried income for last 5~6 years, but thought everything I buy in store is 200% of my before-tax income. (I paid six figures for last 3 years in income taxes)
    – as a first generation Asian immigrant, it was stormy, rocky road,
    to start career and came to this state
    – My first job was in Richmond, selling calling cards doors to doors 20 years ago.
    Rich immigrants, I still think it is unfair if compared to gangs and sex trade workers, because they are taking huge risks earning (undeclared) income.
    Or wait a second, it is rather fair to quote Rich immigrants to the gangs, grow-ops owners and sex trade worker who may not declared earned income locally.
    My today’s poem..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6

    @Egg Hunt: “Ok, I thought ,marginal tax (48.5%) charged on total gross income from dollar one, this is incorrect, right?” … “I paid six figures for last 3 years in income taxes”

    Yes, this is incorrect, but a very common misconception from my experience. Look up marginal tax and average tax for an explanation. Alternatively, if you’re paying six figures in taxes, you’re earning at least 275K (to pay 100K) and hopefully have the services of a professional accountant. They could certainly explain this better.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 3

    Joe Mainlander Says:
    95

    @91

    Just think of the order of magnitude; Canada’s population in major centres (100k or more) equals 20 million. Could the ‘displaced’ folks from a city of 2 million really have an effect on all those cities.

    A lot of cities that saw 150% -200% prices don’t have much growth anyway. Winnipeg’s prices doubled in the last decade and it’s growing by a measly 4k per year (0.6%). There is no growth and an asian population of 4%., yet prices doubled. Wh’appen there? Hot Aboriginal Money?

    What did Trudeau senior say? Something about BC’ers living at the base of mountains and not able to look beyond them. Climb the mountain, look at the rest of the country. Stats all on line.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1

    No Noise Says:
    96

    @83

    From the first main conclusion of the study you linked:

    “While the Program structure is beneficial as soon as these immigrant investors land in Canada, the main economic benefits stem from their acquisition of valuable assets in Canada.”

    Perfect, just what we all want and need..

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1

    New Listings 210
    Price Changes 54
    Sold Listings 144
    TI:13643

    http://www.paulboenisch.com
    http://twitter.com/BoenischPaul

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    Egg Hunt Says:
    98

    > Enigma

    Thanks. I indeed make more than $275K / year,
    bui don’t require accounting services since I am
    salaried employee and only deal with T4, T4A and T5 T3,and some child care receipts only.

    I am not bragging of course, but I am bit frsutrated about this system, my income is not from corruption or undclared money, but I eaened it, but I many times feeling poor maybe just because I don’t own Signlwe Detached home here where I live.

    Someone said about Van Cofee’s fanmily income state doubtful, but he lives Van West with children, one goes to private pre-school, I believe he and his family are also one of the 1%, there are such people exist in this world.
    But again, please understand we (at least myself) are not content with the system.

    I work for financial industries for many years and I also know how crazy mortgage criteria was whatever big banks give back in 2006 to 2008.

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    Egg Hunt Says:
    100

    >Lurker

    Sorry for my spelling and bad English grammer, I am typing with very small keyboard now.
    I have PhD degree too, but not in my current field.
    I am not telling lies, and as I said I did not start like that.
    It’s been long wiiding road and I am somehow still struggling.
    I have special skills in my field and clients who pay to our company, and I continue working hard, that’s it.
    You never know though, a few of my high-skilled proessioanl friends lost jobs these days, so, take it easy…

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5

    Arthur Fonzarelli Says:
    101

    Of course HAM has had an impact on Vancouver City and Metro’s market, particularly SFH, west side / West Van overall, and pre sale attached markets. Get away from the HAM epicentre and the contrast becomes more stark. Half of it is fundamentals, half HAMophobia / media meme whoring.

    Good riddance, Jesse. Heaven forbid locals respectfully disagree with your omniscience.

    There’s a difference between intelligence and wisdom. Like his comment thst families don’t belong in the city…they should all move to distant burbs so global elites and specker douchebags can maintain ill conceived gains. Right. There’s a healthy “community”…

    Ask someone who has seen the inner workings of Chinese investment attraction including FDI and immigration programs and the shine quickly comes off the tulip. ( OK that makes no sense but it’s poetic and you get it).

    I don’t even mean him/her any ill will, but my teeth are starting to turn brown from puking in my mouth when I read his nonsense, especially on RE Talks, which I stopped visiting a long time ago.

    Guess what…with 5% down your rent covers mortgage + ancillaries in the rest of BC…get out of Van…

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    tedeastside Says:
    102

    proud vancouverites should buy a billboard in Santa Monica that says…world class vancouver if you lived here you could be snowshoeing right now!!!

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    103

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    born a Vancouverite Says:
    104

    @83

    The federal government has stopped accepting applications for the immigrant investor program since 2012 because they are reviewing the program. Perhaps the federal government has realized the costs outweigh the benefits. Here are some conclusions taken from the report you cited:

    “It is not possible to precisely estimate the additional economic impact resulting fIrom the use of investor funds, due to the lack of available information”

    “investors and their family members will consume public services such as health care services and infrastructure …. As a result, society will have to assume additional costs to provide the public services necessary to meet these additional needs”

    And finally, the study conducted a survey of the investor class immigrants and “71% of respondents conducted all of their business activities outside of Canada. This figure also explains the fact that two thirds of respondents did not have any business investment in Canada”. Most of the economic benefit comes from buying property in Canada

    I guess that clears up my misunderstanding of the facts.

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    southseacompany Says:
    105

    Barbara Yaffe tells us “Barbara Yaffe: Don’t bank on Vancouver’s real estate bubble bursting”

    http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Barbara+Yaffe+bank+Vancouver+real+estate+bubble+bursting/9478392/story.html#ixzz2sc1tv0ct

    But, then she ends her article by saying “And so, there’s really no telling what will happen this year when it comes to real estate in Greater Vancouver.”

    So which is it Barbara? ‘Don’t bank on a the bubble bursting’ or ‘there’s no telling what will happen’?

    Oh, and notice she did call it a bubble.

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    Vancouver Immigration Info. Yawn.

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    WhipMaster~kerthwack Says:
    107

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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    Re: The argument a rich immigrant pays no taxes and uses the social system and schools for free is bunk.

    The average wage earner in Vancouver making $70K per year might pay $20K to 25K per year in taxes total including income taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, etc.

    Compare that to one 300K Italian sports car (or a combination of a couple of high end German cars totalling 300K) would bring in sales taxes of $43K alone. If they buy a $5 million house they pay over $50K in PPT on the sale and then $14K per year in property taxes. One rich immigrant would pay 109K in direct taxes upon arrival with a car and house purchase without factoring in the spin offs on the income taxes paid on the $175K realtor commission or the car sales persons commission. If the house is a new build there is $100s of thousands of other taxes paid including PPT on the land purchase, PST on materials and income taxes on labour. If the rich immigrant drops another 100K per year in other goods that adds another 12K per year in sales taxes. It is way more than what the average person pays in taxes even if the wealthy immigrant pays zero income taxes. That’s why the government likes wealthy immigrants regardless if they pay income taxes.

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    Son of Ponzi Says:
    109

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    @107 “If they buy a $5 million house they pay over $50K in PPT on the sale and then $14K per year in property taxes. One rich immigrant would pay 109K in direct taxes upon arrival”

    Correction that would be $98K in PPT and $147K in direct taxes upon arrival.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Bo Xilai Says:
    111

    Headline from South China Morning Post

    Exclusive: How mainland Chinese millionaires overwhelmed Canada’s visa scheme

    http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1422480/exclusive-how-mainland-millionaires-overwhelmed-canada-visa-scheme?page=1#comments

    Funny you have to read about how crooked mainlanders are gaming Canada’s immigration system from a Hong Kong newspaper…

    Most of the commentators know Chinese mainlanders just want to launder their ill-gotten gains here, dump their families, not pay taxes and take advantage our generous social safety net and just want to use us as an insurance policy.

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    @100 “Most of the commentators know Chinese mainlanders just want to launder their ill-gotten gains here, dump their families, not pay taxes and take advantage our generous social safety net and just want to use us as an insurance policy.”

    1. Buying a house in Canada does not launder money any more than putting it in a Canadian bank account or buying equites launders money. A house is the most transparent and illiquid place you can put cash. Hardly the best place to stash ‘ill-gotten’ gains.

    2. Buying a multi million $ house and luxury cars is dumping your family? Wouldn’t just leaving them in China and walking away be an easier and less costly way to ‘dump’ them?

    3. I don’t think moving your family to Canada gets you out of paying taxes in China if that is where your income is from.

    4. Why does someone with millions of $ need a social safety net? Do you ever hear rich Americans complain they have no social safety net? No, because they have the money to buy better medical care than any social safety net can provide. For a rich person medical insurance is a rounding error on their monthly expenses. Rich people don’t need a social safety net and could care less about one.

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    lololololololz Says:
    Tedeastside If you are going to claim you live in Santa Monica, at least turn on your privacy settings in Facebook, which clearly show you live in Vancouver, and post on Vancouver related topics daily

    ——————————————-
    will you please post a link to his Facebook page ?

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    Johnny-boy Says:
    116

    From Bo Xiaia’s article.

    So now we know what Canada’s soul is worth. $7 Billion .Actually not even that , just the interest on $7 Billion which at today’s rate is $70 Million a year. We have sold ourselves for peanuts and are helping another country’s wealthy escape having to spread their wealth around. Good job Ottawa.

    “One document, dated January 8 last year, showed there was a backlog of 53,580 Hong Kong-based applications for Canadian federal investor visas.

    That represented more than 70 per cent of the global backlog.

    And attempts by Ottawa in 2010 to tighten access to the coveted visas by doubling the wealth criteria had the effect of increasing Chinese domination.

    In 2011, applications sent to the Hong Kong consulate made up 86 per cent of the global total.

    Analysis of arrival data suggests that about 99 per cent of applications in Hong Kong were lodged by mainlanders. Under the scheme’s current limits, applicants worth at least C$1.6 million (HK$11.2 million) receive residency if they “invest” C$800,000 in the form of a five-year interest-free loan to Canada.

    The applications in the Hong Kong consulate’s queue in January last year represented potential “investment” of C$7.5 billion.”

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0

    Burnabonian Says:
    117

    The answer to our problems is data, and data is upon us now.

    “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

    Rhetorical questions for these hypothetical new friends of ours; the ones who can drop a few mil on a bungalow in wherever and not have jobs and be eligible for social assistance and subsidized medications. While sending their kids to private school and flying first class across the Pacific a lot.

    The ones who have somehow “earned” about a bajillion dollars (or a thousand years’ median wages) in their third-world homeland (it doesn’t matter where it is or who the people are — my only concern is the ones who defraud Canadian taxpayers while suckling at the teat of the society that we have worked so hard to build) and suddenly felt the excruciating urge to move that money OUT of their country at all costs.

    If these people that we are all so afraid of exist, I would ask them questions:

    1) Did you come by these assets in a fair and honest and strictly legal manner in the place where you are from?

    2) Would you willingly share your Canadian financial information with the government and police of your home country?

    The reason I ask is that YOU ARE GOING TO SHARE IT WHETHER YOU WANT TO OR NOT.

    That’s right. Governments share this information with one another, and they have spent every minute since 9-11 improving the efficiency and sophistication with which they connect their databases.

    Banking privacy and banking sovereignty are quaint anachronisms now, and it is my belief (or hope anyway) that this fact will make the “economic escapism” that we seem to be witnessing here fade gently to black.

    In my future, the Canadian government will peruse every financial transaction of your lifetime from your home country before considering your application to visit. And your home government will keep tabs on your assets, income, and earnings while you are operating a household in my country or any other.

    REMEMBER HOW THEY GOT AL CAPONE.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3

    Balanced markets now! Says:
    118

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

    Poorly-rated. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 18

    Seafair dweller Says:
    119

    Immigration and racism are touchy subjects. Here in Vancouver, where it may be possible (open to debate) that our immigration program has affected the overall affordability of housing, the topics are especially delicate.

    The Canadian investor immigrant option has been suspended, pending futher review. In the opinions of many, is of questionable morality to “sell” the right to live in our country – this policy could be seen as both abusive of and abusable by newcomers.

    The Quebec investor immigrant stream has re-opened, and according to an article in the Vancouver sun (posted on this site a few months ago), about 90% of the applicants eventually settle outside of Quebec. However, Quebec gets to use the $800,000 no-interest loan and keep the sizeable (in the thousands of dollars) application fee.

    If you personally believe that the investor immigrant stream should be replaced by some other way of selecting immigrants to this country, write to your MP. So far, the fact that the federal investor immigrant program has been temporarily suspended indicates the federal government may be listening.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0

    lololololololz Says:
    120

    @Snake 112

    Certainly!

    https://www.facebook.com/matt.danton.90

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2

    space889 Says:
    121

    @YVR – Thank you! Also more of the taxes immigrants pay goes directly provincial and city government rather than federal.

    @Egg Hunt – There are investment vehicles like mining or oil & gas flow throughs that are purposely built for rich people to save tax on.

    @Snake – I once also saw a list of detailing the Clintons body count and I think it was into hundreds!!! Pretty scary the trail of destruction left behind by these power hungry politicians.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1

    Thanks, Balanced markets now!

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 3

    Egg Hunt Says:
    123

    >#120, Space889

    Thanks.
    I considered Flow Through before from Sentry or Sprott, but
    found out only benefit maybe to get tax refund in first year.
    (yes, it’s great, you can purcahse beyond your allowable RSp limit)

    High risk investment illiquid, and cannot claim capital losses.
    Besides capital gains are 100% taxable (not 50% of gains)

    Maybe timely now to enter? seeing energy price these days…
    Will look at this option again

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Egg Hunt Says:
    124

    Space889, Just to add, I think again,
    Flow-through makes more sense now.
    I get more than 40% tax refund first, so I
    Can take up to 40% loss on capital.
    If I get close to principal back, it’s great.
    Only thing is it is very illiquid investment,
    big pressure on price upwards, Sentry isssues
    one of the best Flo-Thru I heard.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    @117

    Here mate, I fixed it for ya! Welcome to 1930s Nazi Germany you sick phuck where economic stagnation created scapegoats of convenience!

    I see, so anyone who questions any part of Canada’s immigration system is a Nazi. Thank you for your thoughtful and nuanced contribution to the discussion.

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 6 Thumb down 6

    lololololololz Says:
    126

    “I see, so anyone who questions any part of Canada’s immigration system is a Nazi. Thank you for your thoughtful and nuanced contribution to the discussion.”

    NOPE! Anyone who targets a specific race of people and claims to be “infuriated” by what they are doing is the problem.

    Substitute HAM for Jew Money and ya, the original post sounds like a NAZI manifesto.

    If you don’t understand why that is wrong, you likely weren’t brought up right.

    “It is not racist, but we need to stop this flood of economic immigrants. Yes most of them are Jews. We need to stop them. They are still the minority and many are not even immigrants yet, so they don’t even have a vote.”

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 8 Thumb down 14

    tedeastside Says:
    127

    http://youtu.be/qZ9weWC3g3c

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

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