Your racism is boring us all

Yes, yes, I know you’re not a racist.

But see the thing is it’s easy to get worked up over perceived issues of unfairness and drift into blaming entire cultures for your woes.  Are there wealthy Chinese assholes buying real estate in Vancouver?  Well yeah.  Are there wealthy assholes from other countries buying real estate?  What about wealthy asshole Canadians?  Uh huh. check and check.

But what does this have to do with the price of that leaky house in east van you’ve got your eye on?  Do you really think the global elite are competing for that unit and pricing you out and that the insane growth in Canadian debt loads and bubble prices across the country is not a factor?  If so you’re the ideal sucker for a real estate marketer.

The fact is that even if you’re on welfare in Canada you’re probably better off than most people in China.  Heck, you’re better off than the majority of people in the world.  But it’s a lot easier to notice that teenager in a Lamborghini than to be thankful for what you’ve got.

Now clearly not everyone agrees that an endless discussion over ‘HAM’ is mind-boggling boring, but if you do please consider down-voting repetitive blame comments and trolls but up voting informative fact filled comments.

For a site without active moderation we’ve been remarkably lucky to have interesting conversations and generous people sharing information and data that is hard to find anywhere else.  Lets try to keep that way.  Our hope is that the community comment rating system can be used by you the reader to shape the discussion away from blaming cultures and down to blaming the real drivers of a housing bubble: speculators, buyers, government and lenders.

 

 

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patriotz
Member
@46: “In the past 3 years in my area alone about 30% of the houses have been rebuilt to suit the Asian market… These new houses cost at least twice as much as the older houses both to purchase and to maintain. And I suspect there is very little market for them outside of IIP purchasers. ” Note the conflation above between the “Asian market” (which in its broadest sense means anyone who is of Asian ethnicity, which is over 40% of households in Metro Vancouver), and “IIP purchasers” (IIP immigration has been about 3000/households year for all of Canada). And there you have it. Everyone who looks a certain way is being identified with a relative handful of rich people. Obviously the number of expensive, ugly houses being built in CoV and inner suburbs greatly exceeds the number of… Read more »
George
Guest
George
@West Coast Woman #46: I enjoyed reading your comment too. I think you are probably quite correct when you say that the Conservatives abolished the IIP because of the revenue/taxation issues and they probably were not even thinking about how it might affect Vancouver real estate. The Cons have pretty much said that themselves. So that tells us the Con government isn’t trying to stop HAM or foreign investment in real estate. They just didn’t like IIP because it was a money loser on the taxation side. The Con govt will probably launch a new version of the IIP that involves charging a higher amount for entry into Canada and having it as a payment to the government, not a loan. They can reformulate it so they are not losing money on taxation/foreign income not being declared. We will probably… Read more »
George
Guest
George
@mls watch #47: Excellent post! Thank you for that comment. After having been away from VCI for a few days, I was dismayed just now to see that we are being told not to talk about HAM/immigration/foreign investment. This discussion has been suppressed in so many areas. We can’t talk about it on Garth’s blog. We can’t make comments about it on mainstream media websites because those usually get censored. There is no real political discussion going on about foreign investment in real estate and how immigration affects real estate prices. The NDP, the Libs, the Cons–none of them are talking about that. We can’t talk about it in our workplaces, our schools, or even in our social circles. I save every single one of those South China Morning Post articles to my hard drive. I love those articles because… Read more »
Aggregator
Guest
Aggregator
Children of Chinese janitors outscore wealthy Canadian students in global exams. Here’s what should change The latest analysis of international math scores will have some disturbing news for Canadian professionals spending loads of cash on tutoring and enrichment for their kids: Their offspring were outmatched by the children of janitors in Shanghai. Ever since the PISA exam scores were announced in December, parents and education experts have been fretting over Canada’s 13th-place ranking in math. But when parental education is taken into account, it turns out the children of the country’s doctors and lawyers fall even further in the rankings: They placed 22nd when compared to their similarly advantaged peers around the world. What was that about all those rich Chinese sending their kids to Canada for a better education? Ya, your kid is smart in a country where the… Read more »
mls watch
Guest
mls watch

@YVR

You left Vancouver a while ago I believe. How does it feel living in Switzerland after the recent anti-immigration vote? Why did the Swiss, with an economy in good health, voted against immigration?

You can look down on “racist whiners”, this is an easy stand to take. But this does not solve the problem. When anger and racism start growing in a society, it is a cancer that no politically correct discourse, nor reason, can stop. Look at what happens in France, the UK, Switzerland, Holland, Greece: the extreme right is becoming stronger and stronger. We should better address issues when they are mild then pretend we are all big hearted white people and face the consequences when it is too late. I think it is time for that conversation to happen.

West Coast Woman
Guest
West Coast Woman
I’m very happy that the IIP has been terminated, but I doubt the federal governments actions in either setting up or terminating the program had anything to do with the effect on Vancouver real estate. The federal government set up the program believing they could entice successful entrepreneurs or investors to come to Canada, set up business here, and ultimately contribute to the tax revenue they collect. Unfortunately it didn’t work out that way. Instead, many of these immigrants and their children returned “home” because they couldn’t be as successful here as they were in their home country. As the years went on, many new immigrants came to Canada under this program only for the purposes of obtaining citizenship and having their children educated in our schools, since the quality of English language education was not very good in their… Read more »
YVR
Guest
YVR

@11

It all nice, being open to other cultures, being Canadian etc… but what is one to do when their child starts coming home from school, crying day in, day out. No classmate will talk to your child. And then, after you take a good and serious look, you realize your child is the only white kid in his classroom. What do you do? You move. My friends did just that. But for how long can you keep moving?

I am not sure which neighborhoods you are talking about but last time I checked the schools in Van West and the North Shore which are supposidly HAM neigborhoods are the highest ranking and most sought after schools in BC for families of all races. I have plenty of freinds who live on the Westside just to keep their kids in those schools.

VMD
Member

@41
I see SCMP’s Ian Young borrowed (well he did ask me for it on twitter) my link to the Chinese RE forum thread (which now has over 20,000 views since a week ago)

“The final unknowable is human nature. Already talk of an impending disaster in the market is a feature of Chinese-language forums. How many non-IIP owners will head for the exits too, and how fast will they do so?”
(use “incognito mode” on chrome to view article 😉 )

YVR
Guest
YVR

Yes, yes, I know you’re not a racist. But see the thing is it’s easy to get worked up over perceived issues of unfairness and drift into blaming entire cultures for your woes.

Have you ever heard a racist admit he/she is a racist? I haven’t. What you will hear is that everyone else but themselves is resposible for THEIR failures in life.

YVR
Guest
YVR

@30

Buying a home means joining a community. You do not pay the same price for a community that you would call “vibrant” and one you would define as “dead,” or “welcoming” versus “boring.” Issues that defines neighbourhoods are very relevant to real estate value.

You said being more vibrant and welcoming versus dead and boring is very relevant to real estate value. I would agree but if HAM is making Vancouver dead and boring as you insinuate shouldn’t that be driving values down not up?

Bo Xilai
Member
Bo Xilai

Ian Young weighs in again on Vancouver real estate in today’s South China Morning Post…
Didn’t he get the memo that we’re no longer allowed to talk about HAM’s influence on Vancouver real estate?

http://www.scmp.com/comment/blogs/article/1430978/vancouvers-126m-question-will-axing-investor-migrants-kill-home-prices

space889 is spazing
Guest
space889 is spazing

i think this quote describes what space889 is going through. apparently this is a well known ‘thing’ on the internet. he is ‘butthurt’.

“Butthurt is an online slang term used to describe a strongly negative or overemotional response. It is used to draw attention to a person who shows signs of being irritated due to a perceived insult, an unfavorable situation, or a lack of decent communication. On occasions, it can be also used to describe unreasonable users behaviors without an apparent explanation.”

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/butthurt

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

Wall Street Journal; “Canada Seeks Soft Landing for Highflying Housing. Observers Say Market is Vulnerable to a Sharp Correction”

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304899704579391073478276620?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702304899704579391073478276620.html

“But many observers, including prominent economists such as Nouriel Roubini, think the market is still drastically overvalued and vulnerable to a sharp correction. The ultimate outcome of Mr. Flaherty’s bid to rein in prices without raising interest rates could be an important test of the ability of policy makers in Canada and elsewhere to avoid a repeat of the housing bust that contributed to the global financial crisis.”

duh.
Guest
duh.

“Canadian debt loads and bubble prices across the country is not a factor?”

There can be more than one factor causing overvalued real estate. Just because some speaks about one factor doesn’t mean they are claiming that it is the only one.

Obviously people will want to talk about HAM after the surprise changes to the iip.

Optimystic
Guest
Optimystic

@32
The sales numbers are ~2 weeks old, so they are from week around Chinese New Year AND before IIP cancellation announcement. I wonder how many recent buyers are panicking right now.

Softy
Guest
Softy

Sales are red hot. It’s a soft landing with signs of taking flight again.

Bo Xilai
Member
Bo Xilai

I don’t think discussions about Mainland money are necessarily indicative of racism. Hong Kong is having massive issues with social cohesion and there have even been roving bands of protesters in HK yelling at Mainland shoppers to go home. Read the comments of South China Morning Post and usually the word “Locust” is used liberally to describe Mainlanders.

Yellow Helicopter
Guest
Yellow Helicopter

Amen Admin on your post.

Thanks also for the new mobile layout – looks good!

midnight toker
Guest
midnight toker

not much to say today, but loving the new mobile theme thanks amigo!

Barb Rennie
Guest
Barb Rennie

For the past couple of days I’ve noticed that the sales volume has gone up, so I figured that the news has not really made much impact on public perception…. then I noticed that the actual date of sale was prior to last week’s announcement. So I took a long hard look at the new listings and price changes, and I can see that it looks like there is a quiet panic. I don’t know if this will affect the prices, or if we still have to wait for interest rates to go up?

paulb
Member

New Listings 299
Price Changes 86
Sold Listings 177
TI:14129

http://www.paulboenisch.com

mls watch
Guest
mls watch

@17 ” whether we are in an overvalued market or not.”

Buying a home means joining a community. You do not pay the same price for a community that you would call “vibrant” and one you would define as “dead,” or “welcoming” versus “boring.” Issues that defines neighbourhoods are very relevant to real estate value.

Shibor this
Guest
Shibor this

The local Chinese news mentioned that Chris Alexander was fielding questions about the IIP changes at a Chinese church a few days ago. There seems to be quite a lot of shock at all the changes the government has made to the immigration file. He was asked if the government made the change to calm the housing market.

I suspect many people in Vancouver are only now realizing that the immigration laws are made 4000 kms away and not cast in stone.

Many Franks
Member
Active Member
The BC budget is out. A few tidbits relevant to this forum: First-time homebuyers got some relief this budget, with an increase to the threshold for Property Transfer Tax Relief for first-time buyers to $475,000. The new threshold means first-time homebuyers will also get partial transfer tax relief up to $500,000. De Jong acknowledged the thresholds were set at a time when property values were very different. It is estimated 1,700 individuals will benefit, with possible savings of up to $7,500 per purchase. Meanwhile, the threshold for the phase-out of the Home Owner Grant is lowered to $1.1 million. For properties valued above the threshold, the grant is reduced by $5 for every $1,000 of assessed value in excess of the threshold. It is expected at least 93.8 per cent of homeowners will still be eligible for the grant, down… Read more »
Teddybear
Member
Teddybear

It is actually RE issue, because neighborhoods have changed significantly. You don’t think too much about it until you have to deal with people who don’t have to learn English language.

And then you move, as I said. Buy a property elsewhere, even though you don’t mind the rain, and you have an ok job, and you could afford to stay…

RE and Immigration are actually intertwined more then we think.