About that BOC / IMF conspiracy…

Now normally when you hear about a conspiracy lawsuit against the Bank of Canada, the International Monetary Fund and the Queen of England you would assume Lizard People are involved right?

But in this case the government has already exhausted all but one chance to have the case thrown out and their last chance expires in the next week.

Is it possible the tin foil hats might have something here? Certainly it helps that their lawyer has a history of winning unlikely cases.

So what’s it all about?  Here’s what the Epoch Times says:

Toronto-based COMER and its fellow plaintiffs Ann Emmett and William Krehm are suing over fundamental changes to the Bank of Canada’s role that were made in 1974 when the bank stopped making loans to the government.

The Bank of Canada (BoC) was founded in the Great Depression and played a major role loaning money to the government. It helped finance Canada’s war effort during World War II and could loan money to the government, without interest, if it chose to do so. Any profits the BoC made were returned to the government minus the Bank’s operating expenses. That last point remains the case today, with $1.7 billion sent to the Receiver General annually.

COMER alleges that by no longer providing these loans, the Bank and others named in the suit have forced the government to finance budget deficits by borrowing from private markets and paying hundreds of billions of dollars in interest. Last year, $28 billion—over 10 percent of the federal government’s $277 billion in expenditures—went to servicing the debt.

That’s more than what was spent on National Defence ($21.5 billion) and nearly as much as the Canada health transfer ($30.5 billion).

The Bank of Canada Act allows, or as COMER alleges—requires—the BoC to give the federal government loans up to a total value of one-third of the government’s predicted annual revenues. For provincial governments it is a quarter of those revenues. The loans have to be repaid within the first quarter of the next fiscal year. At that point, the government just needs to pay back the loan with incoming revenues, and take out another loan to make up any deficit.

So in essence, unless our translator has the lizard people language interpretation incorrect, this case is about the national debt and the Bank of Canada’s failure to loan money to the Government of Canada for free.

What do you think? Lizard People are coming to eat your children of something is going to change?

Read the full article here.

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patriotz
Member

@previous: “When I came to Vancouver, some 30 years ago, it was a sleepy Village on the edge of The Rainforest. lower mainland had about 600k.”

Complete BS. The Lower Mainland hit the 1 million mark in 1971. It passed 600K in the 1950’s.

Why I’m pointing this out this fallacy, other than to illustrate how people can believe things that obviously aren’t true, is that it greatly exaggerates the rate at which the population has been growing. A rate that in fact has been declining for decades.

patriotz
Member

Back to OT, the BoC is in fact lending money to the GoC, currently to the tune of $92 billion:

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/statement-financial-position-280215.pdf

Whether that debt was purchased directly or on the seconary market isn’t really the point.

patriotz
Member

Anemic job growth streak earns a place in the record book

Year-over-year employment growth in Canada has been below 1 per cent for 15 months in a row, the longest stretch below that mark for annual job gains, outside of recessions, in almost 40 years of record-keeping.

How’s that “Economic Action Plan” doing?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Patriots:

Why the fascination with Vanvouver and this blog when you just bought a detached house in Ottawa and live there?

Who do you work for? Who are you trying to keep tabs on? Interesting times.

Son of Ponzi
Guest
Son of Ponzi

#1
pats,
You saying that the population of the Lower Mainland is declining?

Son of Ponzi
Guest
Son of Ponzi

Why to you think it is called The Bank of Canada and not The Bank of Joe SixPack?

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Carrick best reads: Canada’s housing market is like Wile E. Coyote”, Globe & Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/carrick-on-money/carrick-best-reads/article23551504/

“Yale University lecturer Vikram Mansharamani writes here about Canada’s “schizophrenic oscillation between housing exuberance and oil-price despair.” He likens housing to Wile E. Coyote running off a cliff with his feet still moving. “He’s suspended in air, and it’s only a matter of time until gravity exerts its force.””

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany
Vikram Mansharamani article; “Crazy Canadian Credit Confronts Crude, Eh?” http://www.mansharamani.com/navigating-uncertainty/crazy-canadian-credit-confronts-crude-eh/ “Canada is in the midst of an unprecedented housing boom that seems likely to bust. “What I found leads me to the conclusion that Canada is now among the most vulnerable large economies in the world. Here’s why.” “First, household credit. The seemingly conservative Canadian population has been voraciously consuming debt at a breakneck pace.” “Second, housing prices. Home prices continue their basically uninterrupted rise that began in the mid-late 1990s. Unlike the United States real estate markets, which have corrected, Canadian prices continue to rise.” “Third, crude oil. The impact of lower oil prices is rippling through the economy at breakneck speed.” “Finally, craziness. Yup, not sure how to better categorize what I’m about to say. Seth (Daniels of JKD Capital) told me that there is now a booming… Read more »
southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

In case you missed it, here’s Vikram Mansharamani on US Bloomberg TV talking about Canada’s housing market;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRVBgyomaNU&spfreload=10

vangrl
Member
vangrl
Previous post, & just to end this discussion with SIDA “Vangrl, I don’t think it really matters what justification your hypothetical buyer might provide. History shows that most like to buy high and sell low. They recency effect makes them throw themselves at in-demand asset classes and shun those which are out of favour and discounted. There will me just as many fallacious arguments about why prices will never increase again after a hard enough crash as there are reasons that prices will increase indefinitely. Most I’ve spoken to provide a variation on the “everybody wants to live here” argument, though. i.e. They’re buying into a resource they expect to me scarcer in the future (SFH close to the downtown core).And, no, I’m not claiming that foreign investment has had zero effect on the high end of the market. I’m… Read more »
Son of Ponzi
Guest
Son of Ponzi

#7,8,9
The Canadian housing market has become so “mystical” that even Indian Yogis are becoming involved.
The Magical Mystery Tour comes to mind.
Who need LSD when you’ve got Real Estate.

Son of Ponzi
Guest
Son of Ponzi

#10
the people who rely on official stats are the same people who rely on GPS even while their car is already going over the cliff.

Joe Mainlander
Guest
Joe Mainlander

@#10 Vangrl

Total West Side detached sales last year amounted to 1,765. Out of a total of about 44,000 sales in all of Metro Van, thats only about 4% of all sales.

http://www.vancouver-westside-real-estate.com/vancouver-westside.asp

If you zoom in to a select tiny sample you can see whatever you want to see. Best to take off the blinkers and look at the big picture.

The West Side is merely a tiny dimple sitting on top of the huge whale that is the Canadian housing bubble.

nufio
Guest
nufio

lol . i love it when people want to get the last word in and say stuff like ” end of story” “lets agree to disagree irrespective of rational points”

vangrl
Member
vangrl

#13

omg how many times do I have to say this, I’m not talking about the entire “Canadian housing bubble”, I’ve been specifically talking about the 2 areas that I’m interested in. Is that not allowed?

And by stats, I meant, who is actually buying, not how many sales went through.

#14-
I get that. But this could just go on and on forever, if we’re being constantly told that the opinion we believe is wrong. Neither of us have stats on who’s buying in the West side so both of us can only have opinions. I’m not changing my opinion anytime soon and neither is he so it seems pointless to keep talking about it.

vangrl
Member
vangrl
southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

Interesting headlines Canada’s market is getting these days. Now it’s not ‘if’ but ‘when’;

“What to do when the housing boom turns to bust”, Financial Post.

http://business.financialpost.com/2015/03/23/what-to-do-when-the-housing-boom-turns-to-bust/

“The simple answer is: save enough money so you have a cushion when times are bad. Most planners suggest savings should cover your living costs for three to six months. The worst answer is: to do what some people appear to be considering right now, panicking.”

elvince
Guest
elvince

@southseacompany: Funny. My motto is completely different: “It’s ok to panic as long as you’re the first one to panic”.

space889
Guest
space889
@vangrl – you aren’t providing any hard facts/stats to back up your point, even though you are demanding other people to do it to prove their point? Landcore has done several surveys on foreign buyers and they used some very very generous/loose guidelines to decide if the buyer is a foreign mainland Chinese, and even then the % of mainland Chinese buyers is very low. If you really want to know then ask your Westside realtor friend to pull up all the sales info for Van West and the buyer info. With that info, it’s fair easy, if not time consuming, to determine if the buyer is Canadian citizenship, PR, immigrant, or complete foreigner. Now I do realize you tend to define anyone from mainland China as a foreigner even if they have Cdn citizenship. But that’s another issue/problem you… Read more »
space889
Guest
space889

@southseacompany – Garth Turner disagrees. His advice is a LOC and invest the actual $$ into stocks & bonds.

Son of Ponzi
Guest
Son of Ponzi

#19

Now I do realize you tend to define anyone from mainland China as a foreigner even if they have Cdn citizenship.
———————-
China does not allow dual citizenship.
Therefore, one can assume that most investors from China do not have Canadian Citizenship.
Also, simply follow this simple methodology:
If it speaks like HAM, dresses like HAM and acts like Ham: It is HAM.

space889
Guest
space889

This couple as per post from weekend have a spending problem, not really a housing or debt problem. They raking in over $9K cash per month with $1700 on housing/condo, that’s well under 25% after tax and likely under 10% pr-tax income.

Their total debt is probably 2x their annual income pre-tax, so they don’t really have a debt problem either.

What they have is a spending problem and if they rein that in, they are fairly set.

—-
Debt-ridden young couple in Vancouver wants it all: Bigger house, kids, early retirement

http://www.financialpost.com/m/wp/news/blog.html?b=business.financialpost.com/2015/03/20/debt-ridden-young-couple-in-vancouver-wants-it-all-bigger-house-kids-early-retirement&pubdate=2015-03-20

space889
Guest
space889

@Son of Ponzi – So if they have Cdn citizenship and no Chinese citizenship but lives in China, then what do you call them? Foreigner or Canadian?

PS, I know one person who actually had both. She said she just didn’t bother to inform China when she became a Cdn citizen and never revoked her Chinese passport. So when she goes to China she uses her Chinese passport, and when she goes to US, she uses her Cdn passport.

Not sure how widespread that is. I think her parents are/were pretty high ranking gov’t officials though so that might be a factor.

space889
Guest
space889
@Son of Ponzi – As well, I think that Landcore survey pretty much assumed any buyer with a mainland type spelling is a foreigner and even then the % is small. So the effects regardless of classification might still be small in the total sales %. The most important metric which most posters on here don’t seem to get, even though it is so simple, is that it is the total dollar volume that’s the most important. 3000 foreign purchases of $200K condos likely have less effect than 500 foreign purchases of $5M houses. We don’t really have an idea of how much foreign $$$ is flowing into our local market and how much of that foreign $$ stays here. If Van West side is now basically Chinese flipping house to each other as the existing owners get their Cdn… Read more »
Son of Ponzi
Guest
Son of Ponzi

1. foreigners (if they spend most of their time in China)
2. I realize that there are many with “illegal” dual or even triple citizenships.
But this could come back to bite them. See Canadains with US citizenships.

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