CMHC looks to define foreign money

How would you go about trying to determine how much foreign money is going into Canadian real estate? The CMHC is now trying to figure that out.

A core team of analysts at CMHC held several meetings to discuss how best to tackle the data gap. Researchers had initial meetings with agencies including the Canada Revenue Agency and Fintrac, CMHC confirmed. The Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada monitors money laundering and out-of-country transactions of at least $10,000. The documents show CMHC also planned or had meetings with the Bank of Canada, British Columbia’s housing and property assessment agencies, and the department of finance to start a data working group.

So why are we missing that information and how much real estate is owned by people outside the country?

After meetings with realtors, lawyers and condo developers in Vancouver, CMHC market analysts pointed to the lack of transparency in the market. Realtors often don’t see residency status or identification such as a passport, and that information isn’t stored electronically at the brokerage. Lawyers and bankers who run the transaction aren’t obligated to pass on residency information and buyers don’t regularly check a citizenship box when paying land-transfer tax.

“Conveyance is done through the lawyers and bankers,” minutes from a meeting show. “Money transfers should get passed onto Fintrac. Whether this is taking place or not is an issue.”

Previously, CMHC has tried to glean the scope of foreign investment with a survey of property managers that found less than 6 per cent of condos were bought by people who reside outside the country.

Read the full article over at the Financial Post.

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Oracle
Guest
Oracle

They are just pretending.

Need to start a petition and have it ready several months before next years provincial election. Need several hundred thousand signatures and then we can endorse candidates.

What should be in it:

1) Only Canadian Citizens can purchase residential property in British Columbia.

2) Corporations (numbered companies incl. ) cannot purchase residential real estate.

That simple. Don’t be deceived like idiots with every other idea MSM puts out.

You guys for this? Will take about a year and I think we can at least get the majority of renters in Metro Vancouver onboard and the majority of owners/renters in other areas of the province as well.

space889
Member
space889

Putting aside the morals & merits of this argument, good luck trying to get this kind of law past the courts, especially the liberal leaning social engineering ones.

patriotz
Member

You are missing the obvious, that it would have to get past the politicians first, which will not happen. So leave your rant against our judiciary for another topic.

I also don’t see why REITs or other corporations shouldn’t be allowed to own apartment buildings. There aren’t too many individual buyers with the means and desire to own them.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

I have to agree with space. It’ll never happen for the reasons he and Patriotz state. You’ll see a pig flying over Ottawa before legislation like that gets proposed.

patriotz
Member

PEI’s property restrictions have been around for a couple of decades now without any court challenge, so they certainly can be implemented at the provincial level if the will is there. PEI restricts on residence rather than citizenship though.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Today’s foreign investor is tomorrows tax evading citizen.

space889
Member
space889

Really? You mean you can evade property taxes easily??? Care to share how?

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Really? You mean you have to evade all taxes to be a tax evader??? Care to explain why?

space889
Member
space889

What’s to prevent the gov’t from simply getting all the taxes from property taxes? And again, where is the proof that a lot of foreign investors are tax evaders? Most of them are doing tax avoidance which is perfectly legal. Most of the ones that actually live here have no earned income. They are living off savings and returns on those savings where the T3 and T5 are all sent to CRA automatically, and all trading records are kept by their financial advisors. Very easy to audit.

If you are talking about offshore tax evasion, well, CRA just gave amnesty to a lot of rich Canadians who did exactly that. So basically CRA just don’t really give a f when you are really rich and hire expensive accountants.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

The only way is up for Richmond’s high-rise kids

“The Chinese language is used the most in City Centre and we’re not just an English-speaking community anymore,” she said.

http://www.richmond-news.com/community/the-only-way-is-up-for-richmond-s-high-rise-kids-1.2193781

space889
Member
space889

You know, I bet the First Nations people had exactly that kind of laments too….it’s all English speaking community now….nobody is speaking Salish, etc, etc, etc…

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

I agree, we need to send English speaking children to residential schools to Sinicize them.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

“Acting City of Richmond mayor Derek Dang kicked off the event by describing a city that is growing and becoming increasingly diverse; he noted that the audience in the room, about 90 per cent of which were Chinese ethnicity, was an example. ”

That makes no sense, Richmond is becoming more Chinese by the day which makes it LESS diverse.

crabman
Guest
crabman

Idiot thinks:
Less white people = more diverse

vangrl
Member
vangrl

that’s a joke right?

YLTNboomerang
Member

Well I’ve been on the leadership honour role at United Way for 10 years straight now…after reading this I’m not making it 11 and will tell them why: I wanted my donation going to underprivileged children not those dealing with the struggle of a brand new apartment and live in family caregivers – give me a break!

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

“Acting City of Richmond mayor Derek Dang kicked off the event by describing a city that is growing and becoming increasingly diverse; he noted that the audience in the room, about 90 per cent of which were Chinese.”

>>> Diverse? LOL, this is not an english speaking community anymore. What is the point of programs like this to help these poor, deprived princesses and princelings “fit in” if everyone is Chinese? Give me a break. They certainly don’t need support from the United Way, but who turns down free money?

Reality
Guest
Reality

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-08/phantom-goods-disguise-billions-in-china-illicit-money-outflows

Massive outflows started Aug 2015. Exact time of Vancouver going up.

And guys, don’t blame the Chinese or any other ethnic group. It’s your governments policies that are allowing this. Blame them.

Reality
Guest
Reality

The money is leaving China and entering Hong Kong via import/export. Then wired between companies in Hong Kong and North America.

There you have it. Now you know how it all gets here.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

there are likely 10s of 1000’s quietly living off their union pay cards, which are topped up overseas at the click of a mouse. no need to strap stacks of cash to your waist or carry around briefcases full of money. most retailers accept this as legit form of payment now.

Reality
Guest
Reality

Garth didn’t allow my post to appear on his blog. The one that provides the Bloomberg article link.

The idiot is going to be outed on Reddit.

space889
Member
space889

The idiot is apparently managing $500M+ in assets….safe to say he’s probably making more $$$ than you could ever hope to make.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

It figures that you would see money as more important than honesty, given where you’re from.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

I wish Garth was honest. With himself.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

Space why am I agreeing with you so much today? It’s scaring me.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Oh noes! Not Reddit!

Zero Down Forty
Guest
Zero Down Forty

CMHC looking into foreign money? Considering that over the last 10-15 years $1 trillion has been poured into the Canadian housing market through Ottawa’s loose money policies, with the CMHC has a key henchman, that’s like hiring a Paul Bernardo as a murder detective.

space889
Member
space889
It’s all just some smoke and mirror busy work so gov’t can appear to do something. If they want to actually track foreign buyers, it’s pretty simple. All RE owners are registered – either directly as the person owning it, or as a company. In case of the person, fairly easy to run the data a citizenship/PR database. Unless off course, we don’t keep info like DL, SIN #, etc and the name is a generic name like Alex Chan, Ann Taylor. Then that’s definitely some data collecting issue. However, in that case, it’s still fairly easy to send a letter demanding ID proof to be sent to the gov’t. For number companies, again, the owner of the company has to be registered within the biz registration DB and just trace it through that. Most of the work can be… Read more »
Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

SCMP’s online presence in mainland China completely wiped out

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/03/09/south-china-morning-post.php

patriotz
Member
Taxing vacant homes would increase housing stock says economist< Taxing those vacant units would bring in an additional $90 million and encourage more people to rent out secondary properties, say some economists. “That is key. We [would] provide an exemption for rentals,” said Josh Gottlieb, economics professor at UBC who came up with the proposal with colleagues. “If you’re subject to this tax, all you have to do is rent out this property and you won’t be subject to it anymore.”… Vancouver’s current property tax rate is low compared to the rest of the country, making it an attractive place for investors who prefer to not rent out their properties, said Gottlieb. “If you want to just go plop money somewhere and let it sit there without using the property very much, Vancouver would be a great place to do… Read more »
Tiger
Guest
Tiger

Chinese Parents Sell Their Newborn Daughter for an iPhone

https://www.google.ca/search?q=0%3A55+Chinese+parents+sold+baby+daughter+on+social+media+fo&oq=0%3A55++Chinese+parents+sold+baby+daughter+on+social+media+fo&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8#q=Chinese+parents+sell+baby+daughter+on+social+media+fo&tbs=qdr:d

space889
Member
space889

At least the kid is being cared for by someone who actually wants a kid. Unlike these poor babies:

13-year-old is mother of newborn baby abandoned in trash, police say:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-mother-newborn-dumpster-13-20141013-story.html

space889
Member
space889

Or this poor baby – Teen Mom Throws Newborn in Trash Because Baby Looked Like Her Ex:
http://latest.com/2014/04/teen-mom-throws-newborn-in-trash-because-baby-looked-like-her-ex/

space889
Member
space889

Anyways, what does this have to do with Vancouver RE? Or just more race baiting?

Oh wait…forgot, stereotyping 1 billion people located in a specific country is not race baiting…

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Something seems very fishy about this story.

There’s no way a chinese baby is worth as much as an iPhone.

space889
Member
space889

Still going to be worth more than what I would pay for your hell spawns.

Tiger
Guest
Tiger
Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

I guess some people get a kick out of trawling for China-bashing articles all day.

Should somebody counter with a link to the story of how the (Caucasian) parents of an Alberta kid treated him for meningitis via naturopathy rather than seeking proper medical assistance because they thought ginger root, cider vinegar, and olive leaves would sort him out?

You’ll find stupid in every place where you can also find people. Don’t be too surprised when you find more instances of it in the places with the largest population. Or did you not pay attention in stats class at school?

Jjjj
Guest
Jjjj

I don’t have a story about meningitis but I have one on bear paws. Is that good?

space889
Member
space889

At least that’s not as gross as the eat worms & insects movement in Vancouver.

And what does this have to with Vancouver RE again??

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

If I wanted to sell a bear paw, how many chinese babies can I get for it?

The exchange rate has been fluctuating wildly and I don’t want to get ripped off.

crabman
Guest
crabman

We need to fund a Kickstarter campaign to buy Panda paws. In a country full of shameless wanna-be entrepreneurs, we should be able to wipeout China’s panda population in no time. #rhinorevenge

Egad
Guest
Egad

No. Somebody should counter with a store of a Caucasian selling their baby for an iPhone. Apples to apples. I bet you won’t such a story.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already
The_shit_that_Garth_says
Guest
The_shit_that_Garth_says

You mean to say CMHC is going to actually tell you how much illicit $billions were laundered through its businesses. And I mean businesses as there are so many schemes with numbered companies that it would take armies of auditors to actually try and figure out how or what were the funneling mechanisms out of China!

franko
Member
franko

Why bother?
Just let Trump nuke’em.

space889
Member
space889

Trump isn’t as stupid as you people think….

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

No, but you are.

space889
Member
space889

Oh, that stings! No wait…this comes from a guy who’s been wrong for a decade, and a petty little racist hater….

crabman
Guest
crabman

It still votes itself up. What a fucking clown.

wwwww
Guest
wwwww

Trump is going to do something to China that’s much, much worse thank nuking them. He’s going to fight them on trade. Dumping cheap goods is the foundation of their entire economy and society.

Imagine the flood of HAM that will escape China once trump is elected.

wizard sleeves
Guest
wizard sleeves

Woooo this rain is awesome. Makes for good skiing. Also went golfing last weekend.

What the f*ck did you do Ted. Visit your Mexican lover in jail. Get the Chipotle squirts.

Loon
Guest
Loon

Frustrated Burnaby family outbid on 16 homes in two years

http://www.news1130.com/2016/03/09/burnaby-family-outbid-16-homes/

paulb
Member

New
285
Sold
267

TI: 8194

http://www.paulboenisch.com

realist
Member
realist
In England , little difference. From Private Eye No. 1412, 19 Feb – 3 March 2016 David Cameron’s response to Britain’s property market being used as a receptacle for the world’s looted billions is rapidly moving into familiar all-mouth-and-no-trousers territory. Asked by Ben Bradshaw MP at prime minister’s questions last week to “take some meaningful action to tackle the dirty Russian money and property here in London that helps to sustain the Putin regime”, Cameron promisingly replied “We are doing more than other countries in respect of transparency and beneficial ownership – who owns what in terms of companies – and we are going to do the same with property.” This appeared to be a major change, allowing the public to see who really owns property and not the offshore companies they hide behind. Is this move, which Private Eye… Read more »
wwwww
Guest
wwwww

Looks like someone got tired of loosing arguments and decided that rigging the voting was the only way they could “win” (or maybe “save face”?).

It’s kind of pathetic that people don’t have better things to do than to rig votes.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Fears grow over ‘frothy’ housing markets in Vancouver and Toronto”, BNN video

http://www.bnn.ca/News/2016/3/8/Pace-of-housing-starts-picks-up-in-February-CMHC.aspx

“A surge in home construction is stirring new worries about Canada’s hottest housing markets.”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Low interest rates have given us too much of everything: Mayers”, Toronto Star

http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/2016/03/09/low-interest-rates-have-given-us-too-much-of-everything-mayers.html

“If you’re that rare breed called a saver, at 0.50 per cent your $1 doubles every 144 years.”

“Rates were lowered dramatically in 2008 to save the global banking system. It worked, but what has happened since is that cheap money has led to borrowing because, well, the money is cheap.”

“Consumers have piled on debt, which — no surprise — sits at a record. And there has been over-investment in mining, energy and some industrial assets. A lot of that extra investment went into China’s 20-year infrastructure spending spree, though not exclusively. China’s boom was fuelled by cheap money from its central bank.”

patriotz
Member
‘We’re not realtors!’ Former ‘wholesaler’ reveals hidden dark side of Vancouver’s red-hot real estate market Vancouver’s real estate market has been very good to Amanda. She’s not a licensed realtor, but buying and selling property is her full-time job. She started about eight years ago as an unlicensed “wholesaler” in Vancouver. She would approach homeowners and make unsolicited offers for private cash deals. Amanda made a 10-per-cent fee on each purchase by immediately assigning the contract to a background investor. It is seen as the lowest job in property investment, but it is low risk and very profitable. Amanda has done so well that she now owns two homes in Vancouver and develops property in the U.S. Unlicensed wholesaling is an illicit and predatory business that is quickly growing in Metro Vancouver because enforcement is virtually non-existent. Vancouver has had… Read more »
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
once again more toxic propaganda from the msm. whether true or not then intent is to get the masses jacked up about the RE mkt. no different than the bs stock tips you hear and should disregard as some random stock is bid up, flipped back and forth and then dumped on massive volume to those that can’t help themselves. what we are clearly seeing here is complex market comprised of three distinct tiers. firstly, there is sort of a fictitious dark pool style over the counter market specifically catering to those laundering big chunks of cash. in all honestly, it makes little difference to them what the property is and what the final price tag is as long as the transaction closes and the money is washed thru the financial system sight unseen. when a given target property is… Read more »
GreenSalad
Guest
GreenSalad

……..these are some of the signs this market is clearly broken and it is only a matter of time before the body count becomes too large to simply sweep under the carpet……
In the end, all of this effects REAL FAMILIES and their FUTURES

Ulsterman
Member

I’m not familiar with this process. Was Amanda’s “skill” buying the house below market value? Why did the background investor go through her and not just purchase property using their own agent and pay the normal real estate agent fees. Wouldn’t they be less than 10%?

As much as i dislike the money real estate agents make, one has got to tip their hat to someone as entrepreneurial as Amanda, who in 8 years has presumably become a millionaire.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“ECB surprises with more stimulus, including interest rates below zero.”, CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ecb-stimulus-europe-1.3484899

“The European Central Bank cut all its main interest rates, expanded its bond-buying stimulus program, and offered new cheap loans to banks, making an unexpectedly aggressive effort to boost inflation and economic growth in the 19 countries that share the euro.”

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

well it would appear that none of this was a “surprise”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“European Central Bank, Federal Reserve policies leave Bank of Canada firmly in the middle”, National Post

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/european-central-bank-federal-reserve-policies-leave-bank-of-canada-firmly-in-the-middle

“The eurozone finds itself at the top end of monetary stagnation — while the U.S. Federal Reserve appears to have turned the corner, with a return to steady growth and borrowing levels now back on an upward trajectory.”

“At the same time, the Bank of Canada finds itself in the middle of the policy landscape as it holds interest rates steady and awaits fiscal stimulus this year from the federal government to help lift output and employment.”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany
“Monetary policy and the markets: What if the helicopters took off?”, The Economist http://www.economist.com/blogs/buttonwood/2016/03/monetary-policy-and-markets “INTEREST rates are negative in much of Europe and Japan, and it may be a while before the Federal Reserve follows up December’s quarter-point increase in rates. So that doesn’t leave the authorities with a lot of room, in terms of altering the level of rates, to ease policy if another downturn hits.” “One option would be “helicopter money” – the central bank could create the money to fund a fiscal stimulus, either by direct transfers to consumers* or by funding public projects such as infrastructure. The idea would be to stimulate demand and potentially increase inflation, which is below target in many countries.” “Helicopter money has more appeal to leftwing politicians since it can be classed as a redistributive policy.” “So how would the markets… Read more »
space889
Member
space889

Isn’t this part of the reason why we have this talk of minimum basic income? Basically giving everyone over a certain age a guaranteed basic income, that seems pretty much like free helicopter money.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

And also part of the reason Trudeau is talking about spending an extra $150 billion over the next five years.

One of Trudeau’s advisors is the American economist Larry Summers, who advocates that monetary policy has failed and economies need massive fiscal policy stimulus.

http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/john-ivison-why-justin-trudeaus-new-guiding-light-could-have-a-dramatic-impact-on-canadian-public-policy

Not gonna happen? Well, JT’s saying it is.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

Not gonna happen.

Someone cares
Guest
Someone cares

Tweet from David Eby regarding Housing meeting March 16

Crusty is burying her head in the sand and this guy is doing something. This will make the Libs sit up and notice or they will be on their butts next election!

PS – I hate the NDP. I can’t forget the 1990’s.

David Eby (@Dave_Eby)

2016-03-10, 12:53 PM
We had to move housing meeting from St. James to Hellenic Hall at 4500 Arbutus due to overwhelming demand. ow.ly/ZjFRS #VanRE

ostritch
Member
ostritch

He cares. He’s doing his job. But he’s a Dipper so his party will do nothing to identity the ethnicity money. That’s RACIST. Maybe he will save what’s left of precious point grey, but then the money will just go elsewhere in the city.

patriotz
Member

Identifying the “ethnicity money” is not the point, it’s doing something about policies that channel this money into residential RE.

space889
Member
space889

So I’m guessing he’s not getting a lot of $$ from the RE industry? Maybe this is his way to give the RE industry a hint?

space889
Member
space889

A radical proposal to fix Vancouver’s real estate crisis: Build high — really, really high

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/radical-proposal-to-fix-vancouvers-real-estate-crisis-build-high-really-really-high

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