Friday Free-for-all!

Hey, the weekend is nigh!

Let’s kick it off with another traditional Friday Free-for-all post – this is our news round up and open topic discussion thread for the weekend.

Here are a few links to kick off the chat:

–millionaire investors pay avg yearly tax of $1400
–saving for down payment a struggle
–born too late
–stampede to overpay
–worlds loneliest city
–earn the least, pay the most
–negative mortgage rates

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes here and have an excellent weekend!

Sort by: newest | oldest | most voted

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Brian Ripley

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Click to flag and open «Comment Reporting» form. You can choose reporting category and send message to website administrator. Admins may or may not choose to remove the comment or block the author. And please don't worry, your report will be anonymous.

Vancouver’s absorption rate (total residential sales/listings) has spiked above the 2011 high along with Toronto’s:
http://www.chpc.biz/mar-moi.html

Even Calgary’s MAR has bounced sharply off it’s near term low heading towards a bullish trend change. The herd is wild, the animal spirits unconstrained… it’s an awesome time to be a vendor, no doubt about that.

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Loon

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Numbers say BC won’t be in a position to help Alberta escape coal power

The study found that because of BC’s population
growth, BC won’t be in a position to sell excess power.

“A lot of people are moving to BC. It’s projected there will be another million people in the province by 2032. With all these new people, everyone obviously uses electricity and that’s where the Site C dam power will be going,” says PhD student Jeff English, the lead researcher.

http://www.news1130.com/2016/04/21/numbers-say-bc-wont-be-in-a-position-to-help-alberta-escape-coal-power/

A million new people in BC by 2032, one can only imagine what area most will be heading too.

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space889

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But I thought according to bears, the supply of SFH, especially in Van West, West Van, etc, that’s keeping up and maybe even outstripping the growth in population? Isn’t that why Van housing prices are in such a bubble and destine to crash? It’s not like you have increasing demand and decrease supply of a very fairly supply inelastic good, right? Right? Bears?

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StupidityCheck

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Shut up you idiot. PS – China sucks.

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Tim

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Nevermind electric cars. There will be a point soon where they take over faster than anyone imagined was possible.

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Hyper-mega-Bull

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Vancouver real estate buyers flooding in to Victoria

http://www.timescolonist.com/business/vancouver-real-estate-buyers-flooding-in-1.2237220

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franko

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Vancouver Sun: “Homeowners fear becoming buyers as prices climb”

That only reinforces my claim that the majority of homeowners are just as pissed off about HAM and foreign buyers as most posters on this board. Regardless of what Patriotz wants us to believe, it’s just a matter of time until politicians twig onto that fact. Older homeowners feel even more threatened by the deterioration of our culture than the more mobile, younger segment of our population.

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space889

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Most of those owners aren’t competing against HAM but other locals who simply wishes and willing to borrow and spend more. If there were no HAM, there would still be RE fever and craziness and you would still get the same problem. Unless you believe HAM were a big factor in Toronto right now? Which btw has a much much tigher supply than Vancouver.

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Yunak

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HAM is a dilative term. Any newcomer to the market coming and bringing money from China, either acquired through business, bribes or just selling their 2BR Beijing apartment for the insane amount of money is HAM. Basically, HAM is the factor in all market segments so let’s please not play dumb and relate HAM to high-end market only.

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Best place on meth

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He’s not “playing” dumb.

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Best place on meth

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Toronto prices are flat as are all major markets in Canada.

Vancouver is the only market that is going straight up.

http://www.housepriceindex.ca/default.aspx

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space889

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Here are 3 simple tips to pretty much slow down foreign corrupt money in its track and flush existing $$$$$ out of the system: 1 – Stop using human rights & capital punishment as excuses & basically requiring a full on trial in Canada before extraditing wanted corrupt officials or criminals back to China. If someone is a gov’t official in China and has $5M house then it’s doesn’t take much intelligence to see the money is probably not legit. 2 – Actually enforce the treaty with China on recovery of corruption money and seizure of assets bought with the money. As a side benefit, 50/50 split with China, would net some serious cash. 3 – Make social benefits asset tested as well (for everyone), so no more benefits if you own a million dollar home. And aggressive chase after… Read more »

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Yunak

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Excellent, have you sent these suggestions to Canadian and BC governments? If not, please do. They all make, sense especially when they come from a concerned citizen who is quite familiar what brothers do.

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Regula Legis

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It’s not illegal to bring money into Canada, as long as it’s declared, and what is considered corruption and/or illegal in some countries, could be totally legal here. Your logic would mean that if I sell alcohol in Saudi Arabia, criminal there but not illegal here, then Canada could seize my declared imported cash and take half and give half to the Saudis. Or since Falun Gong is illegal in China, Canadian customs can seize any incoming assets from that group and split the take with China. It’s not really Canada’s role to enforce laws of other countries, but foreign judgments may be recognized based on bilateral or multilateral treaties. I don’t know if any such treaties exist with China, if not, I think it would not be an unpopular and troubling move to make such a treaty with a… Read more »

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YLTNboomerang

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It’s not often but I completely agree with you on this one.

Member

Hyper-mega-Bull

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China denies reports of massing troops at North Korea border

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/china-denies-reports-massing-troops-north-korea-border-090255421.html

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Best place on meth

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The Unpleasant Truth About Chinese Espionage http://observer.com/2016/04/the-unpleasant-truth-about-chinese-espionage/ Last year, the FBI reported a shocking rise of 53 percent in economic espionage, with the “vast majority” of those cases originating in China. Using immigrants to enable such theft is a serious problem, as evidenced by the recent case of a wealthy Chinese entrepreneur who moved to Canada, where he assisted hackers back in China with stealing Pentagon secrets, particularly relating to advanced aircraft designs. The People’s Republic of China has long relied on ethnic ties to enable its espionage. In spying, they are deeply dependent on the more than fifty million people of Chinese extraction worldwide who are living outside China and Taiwan, whom Beijing terms Overseas Chinese. This is hardly confined to the United States. Canada demonstrates an identical pattern, with Chinese immigrants serving as the main source for Beijing’s… Read more »

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Hyper-mega-Bull

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Many Chinese-Canadians fear criticizing China about Tiananmen Square

“Lots of Chinese-Canadians have businesses in China and they don’t want to provoke China’s national security agents.”

http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/chinese-canadians-fear-criticizing-china-about-tiananmen-square

‘I’m really scared’: Miss World Canada says father threatened in China

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/i-m-really-scared-miss-world-canada-says-father-threatened-in-china-1.2389775

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Combat roach

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Holly shit, if US and China end up in war, Richmond could become a legit target. It will be first to go and probably sized, if not erased from the earth, in no time. What Canada would do?

Guest

Best place on meth

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That’s where the concentration camps come in.

Guest

bestplaceonearth

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you people are still high from the weed of 420? go clean up the garbage the thugs left there, would be appreciated.

Guest

wwwww

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Niihau incident

After bombing pearl harbor a Japanese pilot crash lands on a remote Hawaiian island. The local Japanese population helps him take hostages and secure weapons.

The incident and the actions of Nishikaichi’s abettors demonstrated the potential for racial or ethnic allegiance to overwhelm national allegiance; this ultimately may have influenced the decision to intern Japanese Americans during World War II.

“The fact that the two Niʻihau Japanese who had previously shown no anti-American tendencies went to the aid of the pilot when Japanese domination of the island seemed possible, indicate likelihood that Japanese residents previously believed loyal to the United States may aid Japan if further Japanese attacks appear successful.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident

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realist

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Thank you for underscoring this “unpleasant truth about Chinese espionage”. “Communist” is a word rarely seen today beside “China”, but such are the facts. Communist China is a security threat to the West, the more so as it is viewed by the mainstream media and our PM with undeserved benignancy. Multinational corporations have been the beneficiaries of this arrangement, and as such, have undermined the sovereignty of their own (Western) governments, in addition to impoverishing the West’s working class by deindustrialization. And yes, I mean Canada and USA.

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bullwhip29

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OSC imposes lifetime trading ban on self-styled ‘Chinese Warren Buffett’
http://www.canada.com/business/imposes+lifetime+trading+selfstyled+chinese+warren+buffett/11871204/story.html

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bullwhip29

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Toronto Condo Builder Urbancorp Files for Debt Restructuring
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-04-22/toronto-condo-builder-urbancorp-files-for-debt-restructuring

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paulb

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New
155
Sold
250
TI:8274

Thinking of buying or selling? Or just want to find out what your neighbours house sold for? 😉 Contact me anytime http://www.paulboenisch.com

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Runawayscreaming

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Richmond News – Speculators wiping out food supply:

http://www.richmond-news.com/news/weekly-feature/real-estate-speculation-threatens-future-of-metro-vancouver-farmland-1.2237666

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Vanco

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Another day, another 10% raise in Vancouver home price. Heard that new condo in downtown are asking for $1500/sq ft and selling like hotcakes.

Where is Vangrl? probably shouldn’t have sold off her condos.

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bestplaceonearth

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must be kicking herself real bad! sell low and pay higher rent, mentality of the bears.

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Zzzzz

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Nike goes Back To The Future

London – They were first seen in Back To The Future films more than a quarter of a century ago.

But now the self-lacing shoes of sci-fi have become a reality.

http://www.iol.co.za/lifestyle/style/fashion/nike-goes-back-to-the-future-2002232

kewl…..after all this is FFFA!

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mls watch

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http://www.moneysense.ca/spend/real-estate/8-factors-that-really-mess-up-vancouvers-real-estate-prices/

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StupidityCheck

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“8” factors?! LMAO! Rucky numbah!

Guest

Shut It Down Already

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And no mention of low interest rates, cmhc/government policies, financial illiteracy or panic buying by greedy locals who think RE “always goes up!”. Was it written by vangrl?

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YVR

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Nope, it was written by a Realtor actually.

Guest

Shut It Down Already

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A realtor who wants to make the locals fear they’ll be priced out forever unless they compete with the evil foriegners? Well I never!

Guest

Best place on meth

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All 8 factors and least the first 7 disappear if we ban immigration from China.

We have every reason to based on the massive amounts of money laundering, spying and espionage which makes them a threat to national security.

Getting rid of the so called “students” is also imperative.

Then, a public inquiry into the IIP to uncover the large scale fraud committed. Once that’s done, mass deportations.

Guest

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Glad to see this city made it to the front of ZeroHedge:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-04-22/valued-16-it-sold-68-million-7200-seconds-inside-story-vancouvers-wildest-property-d

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vangrl

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I’m here! Super happy I sold both my condos. They would have to sell for $625,000 each to be equal to the gains I’ve made on the stock market. Up 61% since I sold.

The chance of a 650 s.ft wood-frame condo in a 50 year old building with no washer/dryer selling for $625,000 is zilch. They’d maybe sell for $440,000 right now, and that’s a stretch, & then minus realtor fees. So a roughly 10% gain rather than 61%.

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vangrl

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Oh and still paying the same rent as when I first started leasing back $1350. Landlord is awesome, just an investment property for her & said she has zero plans on selling.

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vangrl

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A fair comparable to my 2 condos. It’s been listed for months, started at $485,000 reduced about a month ago to $470,000, still not sold.
https://www.locatehomes.ca/bc-real-estate-listings/vancouver/mls-R2051050/103-2125-West-2nd-Avenue-Vancouver-V6K1H7?id=262072677

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ostritch

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Except that one day soon a developer is going to pay double the listed value for all those dumpy units to build a fresh new condo complex. Then your landlord will sel.

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Vanco

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That’s great! Sold at profit, rode the stock market and still playing little rent.

Maybe you could share your secret with the other bears who seems to be less fortunate and gets more bitter by the minute.

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vangrl

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You can be a bear in regards to real estate & still be investing. I think many R.E bears on this site are doing exactly that.

Cap rates on Real Estate are dismal, my portfolio yield on cost is averaging close to 9% now, with many of my holdings having raised their dividends yearly, or every 6 months.

Space is grumpy cuz he just has a pretend house on the West Side and doesn’t understand any other type of investments. Understandable though, it’d be frustrating being a Bull in a sector for so many years, yet not ever trying to capitalize on it.

Guest

Best place on meth

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That 9% return will soon be 10%, then 11, 12, 13…..

You’re all set up for retirement and can go enjoy life somewhere tropical and locust free.

Member

vangrl

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Exactly! I’m not going to stay in a town that has majority Mainland Chinese owners, there is a reason that travellers try to stay away from destinations that they frequent. Rough thought, but true.

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vangrl

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Should bode well for future tourism in Vancouver

In 2013, China adopted a tourism law that requires all traveling Chinese nationals to respect local customs. They also published a 64-page Guidebook for Civilized Tourism, which, among other misdemeanors, advised against “cursing locals” or “leaving footprints on the toilet seat.” According to The Telegraph, some of the most frequent complaints about Chinese tourists abroad include line-jumping, smoking where banned, littering, and “fouling public toilets.”

Guest

Best place on meth

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3 years later and the tourism law has had no effect. These aren’t even human beings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Yl4Lxy9IXA

Guest

Shut It Down Already

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“Exactly! I’m not going to stay in a town that has majority Mainland Chinese owners…”

Can we help you pack? One less racist sounds awesome.

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Bestplaceonearth

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61% , that is awesome. You must be more intelligent than Warren B. And your pillow is full of cash too.

Guest

Shut It Down Already

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You had no leverage on either condo? Seem strange that you’re comparing percentages rather than dollars. Fair play if you’d paid off both mortgages, though.

Member

vangrl

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Ya condos were clear title, bought both many years ago, each condo was around $135K when I first bought.

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vangrl

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and 61% gain in 5 years is no big deal. That included dividends all reinvested. The market has done well in 5 years, besides oil & gas stocks. My friend who also cashed out of R.E at the same time is up 125% . Got insanely lucky on a few stocks and also played a few triple leveraged Bear Oil plays.

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Millenial

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Landlord is selling my rental condo, was notified this week. Will hit the MLS on Monday. As a first time buyer, was curious about possibly buying the unit. Went to mortgage broker for a pre-approval, they are willing to provide a mortgage up to $550k with 40k down. I am a single income 30 year old with a salary of 55k. Now I’m quite financially literate and I know there is no way in hell I could afford carrying anything like that. I’d literally have to eat Kraft Dinner for the next 10 years. There would be zero saving for retirement, vacations, or other investments. Knowing many of my friends, they would jump on this and try to buy the most condo they can get. I’m happily going to wait on the sidelines however. Hopefully the buyer of this condo… Read more »

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Best place on meth

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Who is the mortgage broker?

I have a hard time believing this because every online affordability calculator puts your maximum available mortgage at about $375K, not $550K.

I’d like to speak to this broker.

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wwwww

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China: Students Beat Up Their Teacher after teacher tries to confiscate tests because of cheating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpCJmE1z9eU&app=desktop

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StupidityCheck

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The locusts don’t like it when you call them on their crap. Just look at space.

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Best place on meth

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If you call them out on their horrible behaviour, cheating, or outright criminal activity they’ll call you a racist.

Just look at shut it down, that’s been his strategy since day 1.

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StupidityCheck

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Look at the locusts wasting time voting us down, even though the comments aren’t hidden anymore. Stupid commie scum insects!

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franko

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“Canada is subsidizing foreign millionaires”
The article in the Province blames Canada’s immigration rules.
http://www.theprovince.com/business/story.html?id=11868132

Headlines of this nature that were too sensitive for the media to touch a couple of years ago are gathering steam that politicians will not be able to ignore much longer.

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Softy

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“politicians will not be able to ignore much longer”
Just watch t hem.

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southseacompany

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“Spring housing market ‘a whole other level of insanity'”, Toronto Star

http://www.thestar.com/business/2016/04/23/spring-housing-market-a-whole-other-level-of-insanity.html

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southseacompany

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“Will millions of first-time buyers survive their first interest rate rise?”, The Telegraph UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/personal-banking/mortgages/will-millions-of-first-time-buyers-survive-their-first-interest/

“Ultra-low interest rates have pushed down mortgage costs to “unrealistic” levels, new data suggests – with a warning that a large group of younger buyers is vulnerable to even a modest increase in rates.”

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Newcomer

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If we’re running out of land, why don’t prices go up in the Fraser Valley?

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Bestplaceonearth

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Are you for real? Have you looked?

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Newcomer

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Not exactly paradise, but it’s odd that prices of places within 45 minutes of the BPOE have been flat for ten years. Vancouver, we are told, is the next New York, London, etc. so you would expect that people would be willing to pay top dollar to live close to it.

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wwwww

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BPOE? The next New York or London? I haven’t heard anyone talk like that in a long time.

We aren’t the best place on earth, we are the best place in China. And we aren’t the next NYC, we are the next Shanghai.

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Newcomer

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OK, suppose that’s true. It’s still odd. Why aren’t Chinese billionaires buying up townhouses in Langley to sell to Chinese millionaires? You won’t find a 200 K townhouse within 45 minutes of downtown Shanghai.

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wwwww

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Local milionares dont want to live in langley why would chinese ones?

They buy a place in langly.and they’ll have to learn English and eat white people food. That’s not why they came here.

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YVR

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We ran out of land 4.5 billion years ago when the earth was created. No new land has been created since. Plenty of housing busts since though. All of those places were out of land while prices plummeted. Japan and the UK combined are much smaller than BC with 45 times the population of BC. BC could grow by 45 times its currently population and still have less density than the UK and Japan. Japan and Ireland both have had RE busts recently and they are way more “out of land” than us. Running out of land is just real estate marketing which has been used for centuries. Every resource on the planet is finite.

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Newcomer

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Yes. I guess my question is more along the lines of, why isn’t this obvious to the average buyer. Why does the mania stop where it does? North Burnaby is as crazy as anywhere, with lots of very ordinary houses fetching 2M+, but drive another 20 minutes and it’s over. I just wonder why.

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franko

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Bad feng shui?

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franko

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just wanted to throw that out there for hacker bait

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Vanco

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Location, location, location.

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Best place on meth

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And schools! Those incredible catchments!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBosNbCdrFE

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Vanco

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@Vangrl

You are far too modest about your investment prowess. How much did you beat the index while your portfolio rocketed 61%? Maybe you should start your investment firm since you probably beat all the pros. Can I pay to have you be my advisor, or is being a bitter bear a pre-requisite?

Alas, I think your bear friends aren’t as fortunate as you are, judging by their bitter tones. Why advocate for violence, hatred when you have a place to live in the BPOE and have a large investment portfolio on the side?

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vangrl

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Seriously 61% over 5 years is not unusual at all when you factor in an average 5% yield reinvested with dividend raises yearly. The Dow is up more than that. You could have just bought the index and done that.
Some of you act like folks don’t make money on stocks…crazy notion.

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vangrl

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A few of my stocks are up over 400% – New Flyer & Premium Brands.

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space889

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with that kind of track record, why aren’t you going into finance or hedge fund and make tens of millions a year? Then you wouldn’t even need to care about house prices…

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Shut It Down Already

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61% before tax, presumably? If you sold your condo (tax free primary residence?) and went all-in on stocks I’m guessing you didn’t have ~400K in TFSA contribution room available.

Also if you have some 400% winners then to arrive at 61% there must also have been some losers. Temple Hotels was one I recall?

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vangrl

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Temple Hotels, and a few others for sure. Of course I’ve had some losers. And some of my holdings are still underwater, but I’m happy with my overall gain.

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vangrl

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Got creamed on Surge energy as well & Crescent Point.

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vangrl

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One Condo was principal and one was an investment property. both condos sold for close to $400K each. You do know that TFSA only allow for $5500 a year and have only been going on for 7 years or so? My holdings are in a cash account & I will get taxed on the gains when I cash out. No biggie.

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space889

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Let’s not confuse central banks inflated asset bubbles with actual investment prowess. What’s that bears like to say about homeowners? When the tides go out, we will see who isn’t wearing shorts?

funny that bears used to blame gov’t intervention in RE markets for high prices before moving onto rich immigrants, when that same policy starts to also happen to juice their investments.

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Tim

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“Let’s not confuse central banks inflated asset bubbles with actual investment prowess. ”

Yes, let’s not.

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Vanco

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Ok. 61% over 5 years is what an average balanced fund would return.

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vangrl

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You can pretty much expect close to a 10% gain a year if you include Dividends. My portfolio is 100% dividend stocks, and besides 2015 we’ve had some pretty great gains in the market. I’m not a genius trader. As I said, had you even chosen just the Dow Index at the same time I got in you’d have had the same if not better gain, and that’s without dividends.

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yyyy

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Panama Papers expose Chinese elite’s secret dealings

Family of eight current or former members of the country’s most powerful ruling body, the Politburo Standing Committee, as well as prominent Chinese billionaires have newly discovered ties to shadowy corporations in places like the British Virgin Islands or Samoa.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/panama-papers-china-offshore-assets-1.3524965

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yyyy

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According to the above article, the CBC website has been blocked in China, so the link above might not work if you are a Chinese national visiting this site.

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Best place on meth

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China’s Foreign Ministry did not respond to a faxed request for comment. Asked whether China plans to investigate any of the China-related companies or holdings revealed in the leaked documents, ministry spokesman Hong Lei told a regular media briefing in Beijing on Tuesday that he had no comment on the “groundless accusations.”

Not just groundless, but RACIST!

AMIRITE!

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space889

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There is a difference between stating there are corrupt officials in gov’t, and stating that 1 billion+ people is a locust scum bag simply because they happen to be born in a particular country.

If you can’t see the difference then you are not only a racist, but also an utter moron.

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Nom Nom Nom

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Who in this thread was suggesting or declaring that you tiny dicked little monkey!

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Satv

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In 2007 The Pope and other BS like VHB , Drachen, Renta , Freeko, BDK, Tonny and Skullboy, etc. were born to adopt subprime collapse of USA and start comparing it with Vancouver Real Estate. These people who earned extended blessing of Vancouver or BCites did not have any idea how they are actually screwing up future of Vancouverites by giving them bearish approach. The then SFH $ 200.000 Graph is now that you can’t even buy east side old SFH under $ 1,300.000 . and new is touching almost 2.5 million or above. The Pope has this site is reason he is still here but other BLSTR have had disappeared since their head was going down in shame. Idiots.

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Andrjit

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Weren’t you always considered as utter moron and clown at those times regardless of the market situation or that was someone else?

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Satv

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Absolutely, As I said these crackhead so called leeched homeless economist were earning blessing of other reta bears. They had captured the then scene from other way around, I mean they were down side up . I mean they were right from wrong side. Their dumb head has arrest the other bearish opportunity to grow with market and opportunity to stay in Vancouver.

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StupidityCheck

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Not a very good satv impersonation. Try not to be so over-the-top.

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Newcomer

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They were all correct and, I believe all recognized that the market could stay irrational longer than they could stay solvent. But, you are right, it turned out to be poor advice.

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Bestplaceonearth

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I wonder how many bears had fallen for those diseased advises. I still remembered vhb used the chocolate bar analogy to van RE. And vreaa with her trajectory 64% crash. These clowns are armchair economists at best.

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8888888

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I think the cocs are finished .How can you compete with a race of people that eat DOGS!!!

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space889

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I don’t know. How do you compete against a race of people that like to eat blood slabs of beef meat, a holy sacred animal for the almost 1 billion followers Hindu & Sikh religion?

Oh wait, my bad, Western culture can do whatever it wants without worry since it’s all GOD’s will right?

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bullwhip29

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUiZQv_t3oQ

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bullwhip29

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOAjAjyU1k

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Best place on meth

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It’s amusing to see the real estate cheerleaders pat themselves on the back, as though they had any clue what the future held. Twice now this market has been bailed out by external forces and it was actually some of the bears who noticed that the financial crisis, which had just bailed out a plunging local market could actually rescue it due to the sudden drop in interest rates combined with a sharp and quick 16% drop in home prices just as the shit was hitting the fan – one bear estimated that real estate had just become 30% cheaper in only a few months. And so it did, a real estate crash already underway was halted and reversed. Now, a tired and extremely bloated market has been rescued once again by China’s corruption crackdown and yuan devaluation causing the… Read more »

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Shut It Down Already

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That’s not quite true, is it BPOM? Whilst you were all using buy vs rent calculations to claim that a 40%+ crash was on the horizon, others were saying that you kept including mortgage principal payments as an expense and were therefore completely wrong. You didn’t listen. Bears also kept referring to “reversion to mean”, which is basically garbage Technical Analysis by another name without appreciating that Van RE was massively undervalued in the past. So whilst it’s true that nobody knows what the future holds, at least some of us understand the past and present better than others. And when the locals are negatively impacted in a few years time because they’ve all spent the last 3 years furiously outbidding each other and overextending themselves with their one asset retirement strategy I’m sure you’ll have some nonsense explanation for… Read more »

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StupidityCheck

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Actually, BPOM is exactly right. Even the “clueless bears” that publish the Economist agreed 5 years ago.

http://www.economist.com/node/21540231

At some point this house of cards will come crashing down. The longer it takes, the worse the damage. Of course, if it never corrects then this place will have pretty low living standards for most average non-owners.

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Bestplaceonearth

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So when it dropped 30%, did any bears buy in, or still hide in mama basement? No one claimed to know what even happens tomorrow, not to mention five years from now. Only stubborn bears can predict the future; unfortunately, not their own future.

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