Friday Free-for-all! July 29th 2016

It’s a new day! The end of another week! The start of a long weekend! The dawn of a new tax!

It’s Friday and that means it’s time for another Friday Free-for-all post, our standard end-of-the-week news roundup and open topic discussion thread.

Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:

Foreign buyer tax a NAFTA violation?
Housing crash a bigger woe than oil for Canada?
Tax draws criticism from housing experts
Ontario considering BC style foreign buyer tax
Buying property all-cash via shell companies suspicious
Tax affecting presales?
Toxic debate
Reporters suck at math
Encouraging loopholes discouraged
CMHC warns of overheated market

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thought and anecdotes here and have an excellent long weekend!

Sort by:   newest | oldest | most voted
donald t
Guest
donald t

Don’t stop immigration. Get the people who can grow our economy, scientists, engineers, people can create jobs, not people getting Max GST refund with no income but shop at Holt Renfew crowd.

patriotz
Member

” Get the people who can grow our economy, scientists, engineers, people can create jobs”

Oh we get them all right. They just go where the economy is based on the stuff they do.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Toronto?

patriotz
Member
Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach
Nice piece by Entitled from the previous thread should get more attention, reposting. Entitled3 hours 45 minutes ago Globe and Mail article entitled “Chinese-language media up in arms over B.C. foreign buyer tax” http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/chinese-language-media-up-in-arms-about-bc-foreign-buyer-tax/article31150727/ As I read that article there is just one word that goes through my mind over and over again: ENTITLED!!! Those people in China complaining about this tax are ENTITLED!!! Why do they think they are ENTITLED to purchase real estate in Vancouver? Why do they feel ENTITLED to not have to pay this tax? This real estate bubble has harmed me, my family, my friends, and my community in innumerable ways–I won’t bother delineating all the negative impacts this has had on the people around me–let’s just say there has been a lot of hardship due to high housing costs for people who have lived… Read more »
Madashell
Guest
Madashell

Ban the locust from owning as they banned us from owning in locust land

Zero Down Forty
Guest
Zero Down Forty

Uh… FYI, they don’t ban us;

“Ivanhoe Cambridge Doubles China Investment to $1 Billion”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-22/ivanhoe-cambridge-doubles-china-investment-to-1-billion

“Ivanhoe Cambridge, one of Canada’s largest property investors, doubled its investment in Chinese real estate to $1 billion by taking a stake in a firm that builds retail-anchored mixed-use developments in the Shanghai area.”

dyugle
Guest
dyugle

They had to partner with a Chinese business, this is a pretty restriction don’t you think?

patriotz
Member

Actually they took a minority position in the Chinese business, which is a step below a partnership.

VanRant
Member
VanRant

Sick and tire of this bullshit. First the mainlander cried discrimination because servers do not speak mandarin at a Macdonald’s. Now, they have the nerve to complaint about entitlement. If they do not like it, please do not come and for those that are here and not happy, I will be glad to drive them to the airport personally.

YLTNboomerang
Member

WTF: “There was also coverage on WeChat, the Chinese version of Facebook, on which many of Vancouver’s almost 200,000 mainland Chinese residents communicate.”

So 1/3 of Vancouver is mainland Chinese????

patriotz
Member

Of course not. There are about 400K people of Chinese origin in metro Vancouver. Perhaps 200K are of mainland origin, but that’s out of over 2 million people.

CBM999
Guest
CBM999

I don’t see how it can be a NAFTA violation. I don’t know NAFTA that well, but I thought it pertains to trade and commercial transactions. I don’t see how residential transactions would fall under it. Also, if this were the case keep in mind that Mexico, Florida, and PEI all have regulations or taxes on this very issue (residential properties)……surely this would have been challenged by now if NAFTA applied to these matters.

Also a charter challenge would not succeed as property rights are not contained in the charter. PEI and Sask specifically had that proposal taken out before it was adopted.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Easy to fix this. Allow Americans and Mexicans to buy without taxing them.

I don’t see Buffet, Zuckerberg, Mark Cuban, or any of the other American billionaires rushing to buy our real estate. Maybe it’s because they know it’s a scam.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

“I don’t see how it can be a NAFTA violation. I don’t know NAFTA that well, but I thought it pertains to trade and commercial transactions. I don’t see how residential transactions would fall under it. ”

I agree totally. But note that In the background, culturally, “house”, even “home” is getting redefined to mean not residence but a place to store money, a way to bet on value, etc. That is, people do not exact surprised when houses are treated that way — it has been our practice to talk that way about them for the last few years in Vancouver and it perhaps is even fashionable, hip, cool in some circles. What starts out as a cultural change often becomes law, or interpreted into already standing law. Also… what about the TPP?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

See LS in Arbutus’ link to the tax lawyer’s blawg below.
Several paragraphs down: the idea of buying and selling of houses and homes falling under treaties and laws to do with ‘investment’ is expressed.

patriotz
Member

” Mexico, Florida, and PEI all have regulations or taxes on this very issue”

They are different. Mexico does not allow ownership in coastal zones – it’s not a tax issue. Florida’s Homestead Exemption is basically a beefed up version of the Home Owners Grant for owner occupiers only. PEI rules are also based on residency (in PEI) not citizenship.

The potential problem I see with NAFTA is that the tax appears to apply to all residential property which would include multi-unit which are bona fide business investments. But someone has to complain before anything happens, and I don’t think many US or Mexican investors are too interested in buying.

Brian Ripley
Guest

The sudden 15% Foreign Buyer Tax prompted me to scribble out some ideas for The Need for Tax, Policy & Land Entitlement Reform:

http://www.chpc.biz/history-readings/death-taxes

I don’t expect that this post will trigger any change during my remaining lifetime.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Christine Duhaime Tweets: US going after illegal funds parked in real estate including involving fraud on China banks. Pay attention Vancouver https://www.fincen.gov/news_room/nr/html

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Wanting Qu, pop star girlfriend of Vancouver mayor, says she trusts Chinese justice as mother faces possible execution.
‘My mother will surely be given a fair and just verdict’, says singer Wanting Qu, as mainland prosecutors push for death penalty in 350m yuan corruption case.
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/1996714/wanting-qu-pop-star-girlfriend-vancouver-mayor-says?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=SCMPSocialNewsfeed
Trust!!! Chinese justice in the last thing I trust.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

It is staged high-profile shitshow including celebrity and autocratic, totalitarian system. Dictatorship will look good, Vancouver’s favorite songsters can keep the money and get along with career and ambassadorship, mother in law will take a break for few years from public scene and the relationship between BC and Modern China will just get better.

patriotz
Member

‘My mother will surely be given a fair and just verdict’

Translation: I’ve been told that if I don’t say anything bad the kangaroo court will spare her the death sentence.

Madcat
Guest

Exactly…

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Those of you who think Vancouver RE problems are all attributable to foreign investors should read this: http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/family-finance/couple-has-gone-all-in-on-b-c-real-estate-but-a-secure-retirement-will-mean-getting-out-at-the-right-time

1.8 M in debt on 8K/month in income. And these guys write into a newspaper and admit it. And they are considering buying more.

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

One couple who drank the real estate kool-aid. Yes, this certainly proves foreign investors are no problem.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

I see anecdotes are acceptable when it comes to “I saw a Chinese person at an open house” reports, though. A tad hypocritical. However, the problem is that many people who bought real estate recently are exactly like this – overstretched. The stats confirm it, no need for stories. Seriously – you got your data, so why ignore it?

duh
Guest
duh

Are you so obsessed with a single cause that you saw extra words that weren’t in that comment? Foreign investors are a huge problem, but local buyers who go ‘all-in’ to local RE are too. And I can guarantee you this is not the only local couple who are ‘all-in’. Let’s not give locals a pass on feeding the bubble just because they aren’t the only cause.

OooooH WeeeeeEeee
Guest
OooooH WeeeeeEeee

Gamblers have gone all in. Many people like this are gonna learn they have been played by the house (the banks).

Wallie
Guest
Wallie

Interesting that they appear to be paying interest only on the $1.18M mortgage on the rental property.

patriotz
Member

Wow, I thought this would be another boomer couple but they are only about 30. Things are even worse than I thought.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

They got a 400 K gift from their boomer parents. My guess is that mom and dad don’t need any retirement savings because they own more houses than the kids.

patriotz
Member

“mom and dad don’t need any retirement savings”

I would say, they think they don’t need. Also it’s likely they borrowed the $400K against their own house, as most boomers don’t have anywhere near that much outside their RRSP, and taking it out of the latter in one go would have severe tax consequences.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Precisely!

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

The attitude and sense of marketing…

Restaurant owner told pregnant woman who found cockroach in her noodles: ‘It’s a feature of our food’

“The feature of our restaurant is the taste of cockroach,” the owner of the eatery in Zhengzhou in Henan province was quoted as saying. “It’s normal to find a cockroach in food. Several days ago, I myself ate one. You are just fussy.”

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/1899724/restaurant-owner-told-pregnant-woman-who-found-cockroach-her

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

What exactly does that have to do with Vancouver real estate? Aren’t there forums dedicated to xenophobia that you can use to satisfy your need to be a douche bag?

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

Answer: The cockroach finder owns a house in Vancouver.

duh
Guest
duh

Nowhere in the article does it say that, so you know the woman personally?

Fear monger
Guest
Fear monger

I always thought this was “the” forum for douche bags and Xenophobists.
If there are any better ones, please provide links.
Thanks

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

XENOPHOBIA:
Fear and hatred of strangers or foreigners or of anything that is strange or foreign
(Merr-Web)
NATIONAL SECURITY:
National security is a concept that a government, along with its parliaments, should protect the state and its citizens against all kinds of … crises …. Accordingly, in order to possess national security a nation needs to possess economic [etc.] security ….
(Wikipedia)

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Actually this below is a much clearer def of xenophobia, due to Free Dictionary. IRRATIONAL Fear.
XEN·O·PHO·BI·A
Irrational fear of strangers.
Etymology: Gk, xenos + phobos, fear
an anxiety disorder characterized by a pervasive, irrational fear or uneasiness in the presence of strangers, especially foreigners, or in new surroundings.
(Notice this definition refers to strangeness in general.)
_____________
Bottom line: There’s rational fear and there’s irrational fear — only the second is xenophobia. If someone is being accused of xenophobia the accuser should explain why the fear that person expresses is irrational. Burden on the accuser.

Slava
Guest
Slava

Precisely. Very good.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

It’s irrational because the stats clearly indicate that foreign purchases are a very small fraction of the market. It’s the greedy locals you should have a (rational) fear of.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

O.K. Another distinction:
(1)(a) Foreign purchases “are a very small fraction of the market”
(1)(b) Foreign money makes a very large impact on the market (and/or foreign purchases are a large fraction of the market).
“Shut it Down” believes (1)(a). Other people believe (1)(b)
“Shut it Down” believes there is better evidence for (1)(a).
Let’s allow “Shut it Down” to cling to his/her beliefs about where the evidence lies for the moment and ask this person another question. Suppose for a moment (1)(b) is true, “Shut”. Then wouldn’t you agree it would be irrational not to address it? Isn’t the following true, “Shut”:
(2) IF (1)(b) is true then it is a matter of national security to address it.

Slava
Guest
Slava

Correct. The Greedy mostly baby boomer locals for the last 20 years, are the enablers of these entitled greedy Mainland Chinese Foreign Investors.
But the fears are not irrational. So it is not xenophobic.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Delusion:
The belief that posting in the comments section of a local real estate blog is a matter of national security.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Was there some comment where someone said that it was, newcomer?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

People don’t know how to read any more. I guess you’re responding this comment above:

(2) IF ([oreign money is controlling large parts of residential and other property in BC] then it is a matter of national security to address it.

Obviously this doesn’t mean it should be addressed by a comments section on a blog in the way you suggest, but rather by government. How disingenuous.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Not much with real estate but unfortunately lots with Vancouver.

Slava
Guest
Slava

Correct, it is obnoxious and nothing to do with the subject matter.

It did however happen , and it does show as an aspect of cultural incompatibility with Canadian and Western Norms. And this culture is more than prevalent, as they are the majority in many parts of the Lower Mainland.

It might be embarrassing to accept, but the problem needs to be acknowledged and accepted, for change to occur.

Fear monger
Guest
Fear monger

I read recently that roach milk is nutritious.
Get with the time, peepel.

Dave
Member
Ha. Just had a funny phone call. A realtor called me because he had my name from looking at a listing two years ago. He wondered if I was looking at buying still because they have a lot of clients selling. I bought some real estate since looking at that listing, so no I’m not really in the market right now but watching. I asked him how he thought the market was doing and he said from his inside view that a lot of pre-sales probably won’t complete. Buyers are trying to get vendors to pick up the 15% tab if they can’t complete in the next couple days. Ya, good luck with that. I think this will look a lot like 2009 where peoples struggled to complete on pre-sales. If somebody has the time, it would be great to… Read more »
Dave
Member

And he mentioned most of their pre-sales were foreign money. By most I assume he meant no more than 3%.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Nice day.

If I had money and a foot in another motherland, I too would buy here and spend about 7 months here. The other 5 in the motherland making money.

I would plant my family here too. Free education and safety and Max benefits because low income in Canada

Because I don’t, I’m not against these people but against the politicians and bureaucrats who make this possible through policies.

Only way to end it is by reducing formation of permanent residents, taxing purchase of 2nd homes, ending QIIP, and taxing astronaut families.

patriotz
Member

Sure, deals could collapse, and other explanations of B.C.’s foreign-buyer tax

Q: Then why introduce the tax at all?
A: Polls. And bad press. And a spring, 2017, election.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

The biggest potential impact of the tax is making locals reexamine the notion that nothing could make Vancouver real estate go down. If people who make 8 K a month catch a glimpse of the possibility of their 1.8 M in debt turning into something that might have to be paid back with earned money, the gig is up.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Not really. The people who already own aren’t market participants and cannot therefore impact prices. But I think you’re pretty close – the buyers are going to think that they’re no longer competing with hoardes of thirsty foreigners, and the expectation of lower future prices may make them delay their purchase. It won’t even matter whether foreigners are still investing – the locals outnumber them massively.

patriotz
Guest
patriotz

“The people who already own aren’t market participants and cannot therefore impact prices.”

Um, isn’t every seller someone who already owns? A lot of buyers already own too.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Um, a seller is an owner who has listed their property. Otherwise they’re merely a potential seller.

patriotz
Member

“Um, a seller is an owner who has listed their property”

Yes exactly. So why did you say “the people who already own aren’t market participants” ?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Because it’s true. Owners are former market participants, or potential future participants. They’re not active buyers or sellers. Jeesh….

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

These particular people (see the article) like many of their ilk, own two places and were thinking of buying another. They also drive sentiment. At the moment, everyone wants to be like them. Soon, nobody will want to be like them.

Many Franks
Member
Active Member


B.C. land registry slows as people rush to close deals before new tax

Applications broke records on Thursday, and will certainly do so over the weekend. They’ve decided to keep online services active on Sunday and holiday Monday to get through it all.

Anyone still think this is a non-issue?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Should play havoc with Pauls numbers.

De Jong
Guest
De Jong

Listings are from the last 2 days or so.

Solds are from like 1-2 weeks ago.

If you don’t see listings spike next week, this tax will have no effect. Its mostly foreign money brought by permanent residents and recent citizens and the subsequent buying of multiple homes by them that is causing this.

You really think the BC Liberals would hurt high housing prices?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

There is not much point listing in a hurry. There is no way a property listed after the announcement would be sold in time to avoid the tax, which goes into effect on Tuesday. I guess Pauls numbers are for when the sales go through, which is what people are trying to do now. So we should see a spike in sales early next week and then, if the tax has an impact, a slowdown in sales after that.

Slava
Guest
Slava

It’s very simple and crystal clear. If BC Liberals don’t “hurt high housing prices” they will not be re-elected.
The NDP will be elected, and they will “hurt high housing prices” targeting foreign money by way of income tax return. End.

patriotz
Member

Have you stopped beating your wife?

Anyway, how many weeks worth of closings by foreign buyers do you think were attempted today?

paulb
Member
Active Member

New
182
Sold
147
TI:9046

http://www.paulboenisch.com

De Jong
Guest
De Jong

Based on listings, looks like this tax will have no effect. Just like Christy Clark wanted.

Its Foreign money stupid. Not Foreign buyers.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Listings are low, because anybody that was going to list to sell pre-tax would have listed already and if you’re not listing earlier in the week, why would you bother at the end of the nicest week of the year, prior to a long wknd?
As for sales, they don’t mean shi$t until after the 2nd.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

“Sales” in these stats are just subject removals (or, presumably, unconditional offers).

Anything that had subjects removed today will obviously close when the tax is in force.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Sales are when transfer takes place and realtor gets paid.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Not when it comes to the daily numbers.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Not trolling dude. If listing stay low next week, then consider this a non event

OooooH WeeeeeEeee
Guest
OooooH WeeeeeEeee

people are waiting on foreign buyer data for the next few months if it drops of then listing will skyrocket

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Too early. I have a friend who decided to sell two weeks ago. It took him about a week to get an appointment with the realtor and another week to get the paperwork. The actual listing won’t be until September because he has to do repairs and staging. This is pretty typical. It’s very hard to bring a property to market in less than a month. We won’t know much until next spring, which is what most people will wait for.

Owe Canada
Guest
Owe Canada

Latest household credit numbers for Canada (to the end of June, 2016):

http://credit.bankofcanada.ca/householdcredit

Latest business credit numbers for Canada (to the end of June, 2016):

http://credit.bankofcanada.ca/businesscredit

LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus

Tax lawyer’s take on the new 15% tax:

In conclusion, either Christy Clarke’s government are a bunch of idiots who came up with a half-baked knee-jerk brain-dead plan to appease people and they are too dumb to realize that it will not work, or they intentionally came up with something that looks harsh but in reality will do nothing. So either the government of BC is collectively stupid, or the government thinks the people of BC are even dumber. We’d like to think that the recent poll suggesting 9/10 Vancouverites[11] support this tax is more due to them realizing that there is a problem, rather than thinking this tax is a fix.

https://garbutttaxlaw.wordpress.com/2016/07/29/bcs-15-property-transfer-tax-on-sales-to-non-residents-will-not-work/?fb_action_ids=1122415144487091&fb_action_types=news.publishes

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

We should all email john.mccallum@parl.gc.ca and let him know what we think about Quebec IIP. He said he has no plans to ask them to change it. Let’s do our part and rise up. We’re finally getting results locally. Let’s keep the pressure up

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

Quebec gets all the benefit ($$$) w/o the trouble of dealing with the HAM. They will not willingly close this program down. It’s yet another way Canada gets screwed by Quebec.

patriotz
Member

BC has the power to deal with this problem itself by taxing people who have expensive houses but declare little income. If BC won’t do anything about it, why should the feds? If the people of BC really want to do something they can elect the NDP.

would-be buyerl
Guest
would-be buyerl
would-be buyerl
Guest
would-be buyerl
OPENHOUSEMASSACRE
Guest
OPENHOUSEMASSACRE

Hostility toward rich, Chinese newcomers has left many asking the same question: Why is Canada willing to take our money, but then belittle us?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/meet-the-wealthy-immigrants-at-the-centre-of-vancouvers-housingdebate/article31212036/

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

The hostility is against wealthy arrogant Asians who feel entitled to take Canada for all it’s worth while not giving back anything to their gracious hosts (us).

abcd
Guest
abcd

Don’t act so hard done by. There’s plenty of real estate in Prince George, Calgary, Victoria, Winnipeg, Ottawa, Halifax, Saskatoon, Regina, Edmonton, Nanaimo, Saint John, if you want to park your money in Canada. Stop complaining.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

This article is the utter piece of shit. Is it supposed to cause some compassion or what because of the 15% tax? Another lowlife shill paid by clan.

patriotz
Member

The people in the article are immigrants and wouldn’t be subject to the tax in the first place. The writer is just confusing the issues by mentioning it and should know better.

Dan
Guest
Dan
People in the West do not know much about the Chinese Communist Party: Mao emerges as one of the greatest mass murderers in history, responsible for the deaths of at least 45 million people between 1958 and 1962. It is not merely the extent of the catastrophe that dwarfs earlier estimates, but also the manner in which many people died: between two and three million victims were tortured to death or summarily killed, often for the slightest infraction. When a boy stole a handful of grain in a Hunan village, local boss Xiong Dechang forced his father to bury him alive. The father died of grief a few days later. The case of Wang Ziyou was reported to the central leadership: one of his ears was chopped off, his legs were tied with iron wire, a ten kilogram stone was… Read more »
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Useful for perspective and sad to think of. How do these kinds of experiences in the memories of many of those living affect the choices they and their children make now?

OPENHOUSEMASSACRE
Guest
OPENHOUSEMASSACRE
patriotz
Guest
patriotz

It was the state of New South Wales (not the Oz federal government) which introduced the tax of… (drum roll) 4%, as previously discussed in this forum. Much better article linked below, and note this:

“A little over 20% of property in Australia is sold to foreign investors.”

That’s 20% over the whole country. As I said before, NSW and other state governments are obviously trying to raise revenue, not discourage foreign buyers.

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/nsw-is-hitting-foreign-property-investors-with-1-billion-in-new-taxes-2016-6

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach
WTF? Lover the price, problem solved. “One of our clients is a new immigrant family in the process of moving to Canada. They have both children registered for school — their daughter will be studying English literature at the University of B.C. in the fall. They have already entered into a firm deal to buy a resale home priced at $765,000 (from a Canadian seller), but since the sale closes after Aug. 2, they are now looking at a sudden $114,750 increase in their cost — on a firm and binding contract. This is neither just nor reasonable. Our second example involves a Canadian family who recently listed their home for sale in Surrey. They have a firm deal with an immigrant family for $480,000; however, that deal is now in peril, because the buyer’s cost just went up by… Read more »
patriotz
Member

The solution to both these problems is for the buyer to buy a plane ticket to the nearest place in Canada (doesn’t even have to be in BC), and when they walk out of the airport they will be a permanent resident and exempt from the tax. Actually they don’t have to walk out of the airport, they can just take the next plane back.

Mic
Guest
Mic

This article from the VP of MacDonald realty is a blatant attempt to obscure the facts . In example #1, if this family were actual landed immigrants, this tax would not apply to them ….being “in the process of immigrating” means they are still foreign nationals regardless of their”intention”to immigrate….the use of the term “immigrant”is being broadly used and applied to individuals who, in fact, have no intention of living, working and paying taxes in our country. However, I can understand how convenient it is to use this term as it conjures up visions of the poor and downtrodden… neither of which applies to the two examples in the article…

would-be buyerl
Guest
would-be buyerl
I have lived in BC my whole life. I grew up poor and gambled on education to try to secure a better life for myself. I looked at my family and said “I’m not going to be poor like them”. My mother had a grade 10 education and my dad a grade 8. I grew up in subsidized housing and rentals, but thankfully, my mother always wanted the best for us, so I was driven to better schools outside our catchment area. I have 3 degrees and am a lawyer. I make good money. My spouse makes half what I do and we have paid Vancouver’s high childcare costs. We don’t have family money to rely on. We only have our incomes – which anywhere but Vancouver would entitle us to a nice standard of living. As a family, we… Read more »
Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Rebelion, national resistance, police and army will join, they have to live somewhere too.

MLS watch
Guest
MLS watch

I was in the exact same place many years ago, so I feel for millennials. I became very bitter. At one point I had to make a choice: stay hoping things would get better, or leave far away from where I was born. I had no way to make things change., so I decided to emigrate to Canada. Did I feel betrayed by my home country? yes. Twenty years later, my country is now much worse, and I am so glad I left. I thought Canada was the promised land, but I now witness a repeat in Vancouver: life getting harder every year for the middle class, people becoming aggressive and cynical, the raise of racism. I do not know what the answer is…

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

You’ll be fine. This market is headed downward. Just stay the course.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Academic who very strongly relates to that. Especially: “As a family, we earn in the top 10% of Canadians. We did everything right, but we rent a garden suite in Kits. Yes, it’s very nice, but at what cost? I would have been better off just working out of high-school and buying property in the 90s as some para professional. ” “… those who have speculated in this market. The government does not back-stop my investments and they shouldn’t your speculative property “investment”. … I just hope I am not on the hook for CMHC insured mortgages.” “At what point does the government look their highly-educated constituents in the face and say, “hey, i know you paid $100K [and 6 years of your life after graduating university to attain your professional degree] but you can’t live here- Vancouver is for… Read more »
Sellnowirbepricedin4evah
Guest
Sellnowirbepricedin4evah

+1000

In similiar boat. Strong education making in top 10 pct. but no parents to pay my bills or will me property. That’s all it is here now.
I have at least 20 friends who make very low wages but are living the life bc of parents putting money in their pocket for home prices that have skyrocketed none of them are geniuses. They are now living off their houses

yvr2zrh
Member
Noble Member

Well – In Vancouver you can say it correct in that there is a “Property Class”. There are those with property and those without. Those without would never be able to live in what they could live in almost any other part of the world. When I left Vancouver – I was in the top 1%, making mid 6-figures and could not see how I could possibly get all the pieces of the lifestyle to come into place – – so – I left. So glad I did and almost feel like I would never ever go back. But – you never know . . . One thing for sure is that there is no mathematical way that people can earn their way into ownership in the city of Vancouver.

Kim
Guest
Kim

For me, no parental help, just saved, have net worth of 2.2 million in m mid thirties with wife and a child. 1.1 million in equities and 1.1 million in my home. Just save, invest wisely and you will not be priced out despite what the idiots say. Take the bus or bike, you won’t get broke doing that. Don’t be like the Vancouver idiots who lease luxury cars to fit in. Nobody cares what you drive.

I\'m With Stupid V
Guest
I\'m With Stupid V

You get a cookie!

Burnaby Bear
Guest
Burnaby Bear

Have to call bullshit, Kim. There is no way you have over million in investments in 10 years – assuming you went to university – without someone kicking in. And you own a home too!?

Prove me wrong by explaining.

YLTNboomerang
Member

Amen! Similar story over hear but replace lawyer with engineer and kits with mount pleasant.

Bartleby
Guest
Bartleby
Thabk you for one of my favourite posts ever. Hard and yesterday, bring it!! My family is in a similar boat. High income, no parental help. We have saved and invested, doing well on paper. But goddamnit , I am tired of our dingy east side rental and the long commute we make each day to get the kids to a good school and daycare. It boggles my mind to think that even though we have done so many of the “right” things, we have a lifestyle that doesnt quite fit our expectations. Instagram’s gotta develop a filter for me! But yep, earning Vancouver dollars, and didn’t buy 10+ years ago, so feels like we are out of luck. If only I had parents like these: Friend’s brother and his wife lost out on a couple of multiple offer situations… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Bartleby, you will be soon be glad that you are you and not your friend. Imagine having a debt load that cannot be repaid in a lifetime and also feeling responsible for your in-laws being in the same boat. Shoot me now 🙂

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I get it, and I sympathize.

That said if you are earning about 100K (top 10%) and your wife makes half of that, you have 150K a year. A two-bedroom garden suite in Kits costs around 2K (you can get them for 1500). So you have scads of money left over to invest in equities or whatever. Why do you need to own a house?

I’m in basically the same boat, and while it is inconvenient that I don’t own the place I live in, it’s not awful. As Boombust says, bide your time and focus on what is important. You live in a beautiful part of town, you earn a good living and your wife does OK too. Sounds great. Enjoy it!

Burnaby Bear
Guest
Burnaby Bear

“So you have scads of money left over to invest in equities or whatever.”

This is where the myth breaks down. My wife and I bring in about $150K gross; we pay $2100 rent for a house in North Burnaby. Yet, for all intents and purposes we live cheque to cheque. And believe me we don’t live a luxurious life! No BMW in our driveway. The cost of living in this city is crazy.

I stopped contributing to our RRSPs when the kid arrived. Haven’t been able to start again. We have to run two cars – I work in Surrey she works in south Burnaby. Day care costs more than you can believe even out here.

I completely understand Would Be Buyer – I am in the same boat. And it sucks.

squeak
Member
squeak

First of all, Congratulations on earning your degrees despite coming from the wrong side of the track. These kids that accomplish this have to work 3 times as hard b/c of many reasons, one of them is not having the network and not been shown the ropes and the strategic thinking that comes with pursuing higher education. Commendable!

I would love to see a crash too, but is that wishing thinking? Or should we grab the bull by the horns and call a spade a spade, stop letting our emotions getting in the way of making logical smart decisions.
As mentioned in my “ramble” a few postings below, maybe taking your golden skills elsewhere where you will be rewarded. Your time is gold. Why invest your gold years in a corrupt province?

hgfd
Guest
hgfd

We have from now until the provincial election to see if Christy’s tax is effective or not…….

Slava
Guest
Slava

And if Christy’s tax is not successful, it will definitely be an NDP Government who will be.

tokyorealestateman
Guest
tokyorealestateman
MLS watch
Guest
MLS watch

In Europe a lot of people rent a basic apt in the core of a big city, where they cannot afford to buy, and buy a nice house in the countryside, where they go for long week ends and holidays. They can adjust the size of the rental to their family needs, and have a beautiful home paid off by the time they retire.

Burnaby Bear
Guest
Burnaby Bear

Where can you buy a nice house in the country-side that is accessible from Vancouver on long weekends, that won’t cost an arm and a leg?

Sounds like a brilliant plan, but I don’t think it will work in Vancouver.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Sunshine Coast?

patriotz
Member

What a difference 100 feet makes. You can visit any weekend you like, but unfortunately you can’t retire there.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1867-Roosevelt-Way-Point-Roberts-WA-98281/23671305_zpid/

mls watch
Guest
mls watch

It worked for me… Renting a house in Van was $3500 (family of 4, central location, crapy landlord). Renting an apt is now $2000 and mortgage is $1600. Including utilities and everything, it is more expansive, yes, but my quality of life is without comparison, especially community wise. Just need to be organized and keep myself busy on the bus and on the ferry ($15 return ticket). Works well for someone who can work partly from home, or if one spouse finds employment locally. A good solution if you are 10 yrs away from retirement. Excellent for small kids. Not for everyone.

Jon
Guest
Jon

Dropped by an open house this weekend in east van near Slocan and 5th. Vancouver Special built in 1976 and fully renovated. Listed at 1,599,000. The realtor showed me he had an offer at over 200k over asking. I thought people would be concerned with the new foreign tax bringing prices lower. It will be interesting to see what detached prices do in the next few months.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

In the same vein, (yet another) friend just decided to sell and her realtor told her to ask for more that she had been thinking of as a similar unit in her building sold last week on one day.

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