You can buy, but you can’t rent

The BC Court of Appeal has upheld the right of a strata corporation to limit rentals in a condo building.

The ruling on Friday states that the strata council of Hycroft Towers in Vancouver’s South Granville neighbourhood can restrict its owners from renting out their suites – without explaining why – because anyone who feels they have been treated unfairly can take their case to the B.C. Supreme Court.

The dismissal of the appeal reinforces the right of strata councils to stop rentals in their buildings, a tactic that experts say might be creating more pressure on the region’s extremely tight rental market.

The case centred around a family that began renting out one of the three units they owned at Hycroft Towers last September – despite an earlier rejection of their application to expand the rental pool in the building by the strata council.

The family argued that, under the province’s strata laws, the council must also provide the criteria by which it grants permission for owners to rent their units.

However, Justice Gregory James Fitch ruled that it is “difficult to imagine that an acceptable screening criteria for administering the rent restriction cap [such as the ‘needs-based’ system proposed by the appellants] could be devised that would comply with [provincial law].”

Ah, condo ownership, where you get all the bills without the hassle of all the control.

Read the full article in the Globe and Mail.

On a side note, we’ve disabled the inline image rendering in comments. We made it a surprisingly long time before it degenerated into out of control garbage and it was nice to be able to see the occasional graph rendered in a comment, but clearly you people can’t be trusted.

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Madashell
Guest
Madashell

Christine Duhaime on Smurfing: They (China) are already cracking down on it. And not only that, they are tracing where the funds went that were smurfed out to identify instances where there may be financial crime involved. One of the things that is surprising about people who smurf is that it can be detected going years back. They’ve approached some countries around the world about who they want back.
http://www.vice.com/en_ca/read/how-vancouver-real-estate-is-like

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

I hope they catch all the smurfs and have a giant smurf bonfire with blue flames shooting thousands of feet into the air.

Alsof they ask for any of the money-laundering, house-buying locusts to be sent back we should hand them over no questions asked.

This city needs to clean house.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Thanks space, for posting images of naked gay men and dildos, you fucking piece of shit.

As usual, you vermin ruin everything for the rest of us.

Go back to china, lowlife.

Tim
Guest
Tim

You’re every bit as offensive as he is, and more unhelpful.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Thanks for your input, new guy.

Enjoy your first day here.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Notice Space’s name, ending in numbers that mean something like doubly abundant loyalist. Who is he loyal to, d’ya think? Half the time his remarks do not address what people actually say but instead play themes you can hear in the speeches of diplomatic spokespeople for China on some of the most troubling international political issues of our time. Ask him about Tibet or the map China uses to attempt to justify its position on the South China Sea dispute.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

My comment @Tim

space889
Member
space889

Quora…learn to read sometimes.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

Beat it Tim!

MarKoz
Member

I’m with Tim. The race baiting and then equally ignorant crap from Space are a waste of space. I have been following this blog for years. There used to be lots of enlightened discussion with a few losers chiming in. Now it is going the other way.

space889
Member
space889

Well, what can I say….I’m just a stupid locust who is soooooo slow in learning the proper Canadian way, even when I have such a wonderful team of great teachers & leaders who teaches and leads by example.

space889
Member
space889

So not only are you racist and hateful, but homophobic too? Wow…and I thought I was just helping you to come out of closet, learn to love, and leave the hate behind…

I guess the lesson is – hate in letters & word – A OK! Posting a pic to help out a frustrated self-hating guy, immediate No NO along with accusation of the worst possible kind of evil in the world….

paulb
Member

New
323
Sold
123
TI: 9300

http://www.paulboenisch.com

Adult huggies
Guest
Adult huggies

Thanks Paul. Total inventory trending higher.

vangrl
Member
vangrl

Did we get stats on Friday? thank you

yvr2zrh
Member

Thank you Paul. At this time in history the daily stats are even more important than ever. Thank you for continuing to help all of us with this little tidbit of daily information.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Appreciated here also.

rockerguy
Member
rockerguy

Added to the Google sheet. The inventory velocity for August is super terrible compared with 2013-2015. New/Sold ratio is now 2.54 – avg for August is about 1.3.

Tim
Guest
Tim

Remember that even the NPA has talked about reforming the act, to protect the right of owners to rent their space. Interesting that Vision didn’t seem to like the idea as much.

And the snobbish, “get off my lawn” comments by older anti-renter condo owners are almost the ideal opposition. You couldn’t ask for better assholes.

Change in this one area could probably relieve the rental crisis overnight.

squeak
Member
squeak

Would the condo prices go up as people think they can now rent out?
Rents go down as more would rent out b/c they can?
Or?

Tim
Guest
Tim

Condo prices could also drop as pressure was taken off the rental market, so renters delayed decisions to buy a condo.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

The cost of buying is so much higher than renting that I don’t see one impacting the other.

tim
Guest
tim

Then where do condo buyers come from? Outer space?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

“Would the condo prices go up as people think they can now rent out?”

It doesn’t affect the overall condo market, just the building in question.

If you’ve ever compared similar listings in a particular area, the condos that don’t allow rentals are priced lower, as are condos with age restrictions.

The rental market though would likely improve if all condos could be rented out.

patriotz
Member

“Change in this one area could probably relieve the rental crisis overnight.”

I think that most empty condos, by far, are being left that way deliberately, not because of inability to rent them out. The new developments such as False Creek and Coal Harbour, where people are always pointing out empty units, aren’t rental restricted.

Downtown Rentals

Hycroft is very much a special case, it’s a legacy building which probably has a high proportion of seniors who want a quiet lifestyle. Frankly I think the owner who wants to rent out the units there is a speculator who is running short of cash.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?
Granted he’s trying to sell his newsletter but the facts are bang on. Motley Fool is a respectable source to be sure. Vancouver Housing: This Isn’t Going to End Well August 8, 2016 Dear Fellow Fools, Chances are, if you’ve paid any attention to the news in recent months you’re aware that there’s some craziness going on in the Vancouver real estate market. Just last week, it was revealed that the average price of a detached home in Greater Vancouver is a whopping $1.6 million – up 38% year-over-year. Who needs stocks?! I’ve certainly seen the headlines that seem to be appearing with increasing frequency. But given my small town Ontario base, haven’t really given it much thought. Until now…. A Bloomberg article that appeared last week and profiled several individuals that have been impacted by the craziness, for good… Read more »
Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Was Michael Phelps’ latest gold medal a victory for Traditional Chinese Medicine?

http://www.scmp.com/sport/other-sport/article/2000983/was-michael-phelps-latest-gold-medal-victory-traditional-chinese

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

This must be very amusing and ironic to the doped up chinese Olympic team.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Even more irony as well as a big DOSE of good fortune.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/law-crime/article/2001024/thirty-two-mainland-tourists-hurt-their-bus-rolls-down

I don’t think 32 is a lucky number but can anyone see if there are 8’s in the shops address?

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

You want to rent out your condos? Buy them in a building that allows it.

Not everyone wants to live next to renters. They have a well deserved reputation.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

So do amatuer landlords.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

So do amatuer landlords.

Tim
Guest
Tim

Quite the bigot when the mask slips, eh?

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Lol. After all the things I’ve posted THIS is what gets me called a bigot.

Humans take better care of things they own than things other people own.

Wow… I guess I just blew some minds. I thought this was obvious.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Careful with those generalisations. I wash other people’s dishes with more care than I wash my own. Also I take care of other people’s camping gear better than I take care of my own.

space889
Member
space889

Really?? Careful with generalization??? From you??? what a laugh….

Please remind me again what you think of mainland Chinese people again?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

That they suffered terribly during the Mao years and haven’t fully recovered.

tim
Guest
tim

“Humans take better care of things they own than things other people own.”

A quick look around Dunbar, and that falls apart. And behind every run-down rental property is an irresponsible landlord. Good landlords tend to have good tenants.

patriotz
Member

But the owners of these houses are only interested in land value. And stratas’ real concern about renters is damage to common areas which everyone has to pay for, or even other units (e.g. water damage). The condo owner who rents out is offloading risk to everyone.

tim
Guest
tim

I don’t believe that. Talk to older condo owners in person and see what they say. It’s 3/4 snobbery and stereotyping. Their “real concerns” deserve no sympathy at all.

Bear Vancouverite
Guest
Bear Vancouverite

Patriotz is absolutely right here. I’ve owned in older condos and owners (myself included) typically prefer to restrict rentals because investors who rent out units are offloading the risk to the rest of the live-in owners. Even in buildings with very high percentage of live in owners there can be a lot of issues in the damage or cleanliness of the common areas because some owners don’t perceive the common areas as “their problem”.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Doesn’t it depend entirely on WHO you rent to? I’d much prefer my landlord to rent to a settled older person or couple than to three 20 year old roomies who are barely pulling the rent together and smoke, have parties all the time, and park in my parking place without asking, and for exactly the same reasons as you mention — that the responsible people will take care of the common areas, not leave a mess by the garbage bins etc. I get angry at my landlord when he picks irresponsible tenants because it causes me trouble that I’d rather not have to bother with. It, so to speak, offloads the risk onto me. It’s true he owns the property but there are other elements of the residence that people who live here provide that increase its value. Y’all… Read more »
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

On the other hand, occasionally three twenty year old roomies make far superior neighbors to some nasty old people. It’s neither age nor renting status that matters I would say, but attitude and values.

Funkey monkey
Guest
Funkey monkey

My neighbours are owners they are the Asian version of the trailer park boys.

bbxz
Guest
bbxz

Metro Vancouver realtor pair criticized for mixing business with condolences

A 73-year-old man who lost his wife less than three weeks earlier was crushed to get a pitch for his business attached to a sympathy card from two Metro Vancouver real estate agents, his outraged daughter says.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/metro-vancouver-realtor-pair-criticized-for-mixing-business-with-condolences

Adult huggies
Guest
Adult huggies

Market must be really slow if they resort to such a low thing.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Every loss of life is a potential listing.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Sure you can be a real estate agent and make lots of money but it wouldn’t be worth all the stares and jeers I get when I tell people I’m a realtor.

Best keep your wealth under the radar. These two realtors are pathetic. How many nasty emails are they going to get?

space889
Member
space889

So these two realtors are Chinese realtors with Western last names then?? I thought only Chinese people can be this bad….good ole’ honest Canadians would never ever stoop to such level…

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?
Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Is there a Vancouver or Canada connection?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
I don’t know the relevant body of law surrounding this decision, but just going by what is reported in the newspapers about the reasoning used it seems to me to be a mistake. I don’t think it should ordinarily be within the power of a strata council to limit rentals — the collective should not have that power over individual owners and individual owners who don’t want to live next door to renters should not expect to be protected by strata councils from that any more than they should expect to be protected by the City from living down the street from a hospice. If they don’t want to live next door to renters they should move out of the city to a place of less density. I would write the law so that the legal ability of a strata… Read more »
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

^^^ tl;dr = whether strata councils should be able to limit rentals should depend on density of neighborhood of condo building

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

That would take a complete overall of existing law. Stratas can limit the ages etc. of the occupants, the type of plants people put outside their doors or anything else. They are basically private clubs, which are free to make any rules they want.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Thanks for information and food for thought. I do know that as things stand they can make the rules they want to about any matters. I’m talking about what should be rather than what is. With respect to rules about rentals, if in a high density area stratas should no longer get to make up the rules about number of units that can be rented. Otherwise we are headed into an entirely untenable situation (as if it weren’t already!) Condo owners should stop pretending that their “ownership” is akin to owning a detached house on a bit of land. They don’t belong in that group. They’re in a weird half way place between renting and owning. They do not and should not have full control over what happens in their building. Their building is analogous to a neighborhood, not to… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I see where you are coming from, but the problem is more easily addressed by zoning. Just zone enough land for rentals and/or co-ops and the problem is solved.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Yes, I agree that is the straightforward way to do it. The problem is it appears not to be working. There seem to be some factors that are gumming up the works. For not enough rentals have been zoned, and it does not seem at all obvious that they will be zoned if things continue in their present course. So I’m thinking that the whole idea of condo ownership has to be re-conceived, so that the zoning occurs inside of buildings (in allowing that a certain number or all can be rented out regardless of Strata pref) not just inside of neighborhoods. Getting developers to agree to build x number of rental units (usually with specifications that limit who the units will be available to) is not enough.

space889
Member
space889

So basically when it suits my needs, the rights of the actual owners who put up $$$$ and bought the place be screwed.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Nope. Not a good summary.

patriotz
Member

“Just zone enough land for rentals and/or co-ops and the problem is solved.”

There is no such thing as zoning for rentals or co-ops, just residential versus other uses. Cities can specify that rentals be included under conditional developments (as opposed to unconditional use), and they can lease land they own to co-ops. Both of which CoV has done a lot, and it has land waiting right now if senior governments can come up with funding.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Come to think of it, it would be awful to zone certain neighborhoods as rentals… could be a way creating ghettos.

space889
Member
space889

uhm…when you buy a condo, you purchase a share of the strata corp that owns the land and the building, and rights to occupy a certain volume of pre-defined airspace and rights to use the common building structure & facilities. The strata corp has the right to decide on how the building is used.

So are you are telling me that you don’t believe in democracy, property rights, and self-determination when it comes to strata corp’s ability to conduct biz and make rules based on the will of majority, simply because the rules harms you, a renter who doesn’t even put up a single cent and own anything?? That your right to rent supercedes what the majority of owners in a strata building want?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

@SpaceDouble4Double4,9
No. That’s not what I’m telling you. But thanks for the query. I think it would take me too long of a post to sort out all the necessary distinctions and it’s late.

patriotz
Member

Space is right. Someone who owns a strata unit and doesn’t want to live in it has a simple solution – sell it. This ultimately has the same effect on rental supply as if it was rented out.

Provided it doesn’t sit empty of course, and government should change the tax system to penalize those who let dwellings sit empty, whether condos or houses.

There another issue that hasn’t been brought up – stratas need the power to stop AirBNB type rentals if the city isn’t wiling to do anything about it.

tim
Guest
tim

Stratas are not really democratic. In most, to allow rentals (or more rentals) would require a 75% approval, a very high bar. A clear majority of the owners could want to change a rental bylaw and it would get nowhere.

And strata councils tend to be occupied by intolerant people with waaaay too much time on their hands. Re “property rights”, firstly that’s an American concept, secondly you can just as easily argue it on the other side.

What this really is, is straight-up classism. The sort of people who sit on a strata are more likely to be the kind of asshole who thinks they’re a higher class of person because they own in Vancouver, rather than rent.

patriotz
Member

“Stratas are not really democratic”

They are more democratic than most corporations really. Remember a strata is something you buy into, not a government with power over you whether you like it or not.

tim
Guest
tim

“They are more democratic than most corporations…”

Damning with faint praise.

Bear Vancouverite
Guest
Bear Vancouverite

Stratas need to keep the right to decide on issues like rental rights, pets, noise, etc. Taking away these rights makes owning in a condo completely meaningless.

Maybe the requirement of 75% majority to change certain things is a bit high (I don’t recall most of our votes requiring so high a majority on major items).

Adult huggies
Guest
Adult huggies
patriotz
Member

“In Vancouver, which recently introduced a tax on foreign home buyers”

I guess Reuters and FP can take joint responsibility for this blooper.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle
It’s official. The powers that be couldn’t lie anymore. Without HAM, prices in Vancouver would fall by 50%. Here is how money is moved for big purchases. 1) Via fake imports from Hong Kong into China. Mostly of jewellery. The Chinese company sends money into Hong Kong and is readily converted into US Dollars. Then it can go anywhere in world Then it goes into YVR real estate in all cash deals. 2) Mergers and Aquisitions. Don’t know how this works but was recently told a junior mining company was sold for $430 million when in fact it was worth only $50 million. For other purchases like Lambos and Ferraris: 1). $50,000 per year is allowed and they Smurf to get more out. Get 5 friends in China to send you money and Bammm you got $250,000 For other purchases… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

In what sense is this “official?”

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

as it is reported by Oracle = “official”.

observer
Guest
observer

Federal government doing the opposite of what is needed:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ottawa-pushes-china-to-boost-visa-application-sites/article31328849/

In the interview McCallum recognizes the adverse effects on housing in Van and TO, but claims we need to worry about the rest of the country.
Another five years of unabated money from the PRC. Brace your self.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Trudeau liberals and Harper Cons are all puppets of Big Business.

Only an awakening of the working class will cause change. Don’t hold your breath for that.

Seeing more people lying in the streets on a daily basis.

tim
Guest
tim

An awakening is unlikely. Youtube “Far too Canadian”.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

The commentators on the youtube channel say it’s an ironic song.
If you just read the lyrics it might not seem to be, but if you hear them in connection with the video images of the youtube, then the irony comes out. But I don’t know whether the video I saw was made by the band or someone else.

Kim
Guest
Kim

The world knows Canadians are stupid and too politically correct to ever say anything remotely racist. Whereas in places like China, racism is rampant and there is no such thing as political correctness.

patriotz
Member

McCallum is saying that if Christy and Kathleen think there’s a problem they are welcome to take care of it themselves.

Yunak
Member
Yunak

Disaster, this country with even more Chinese is gone down to shitter.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

This is ridiculous, utter craziness. Ruling minority keeps inviting and bringing undesirable guests without a consent of the majority. This idiocy will create conditions that will have disastrous implications and multiple generations struggling in the future. Same shit that had been done with Israel, Palestine, Kurds, Balkans, etc but could have been avoided if politicians were smarter. How come people aren’t capable of learning from other’s mistakes, mindboggling…

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

People are making decisions without adequate information, with areas of expertise that are too narrow, and with too much reliance on cliched forms of thinking.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

By “people” I mean people in political office.

vangrl
Member
vangrl

I think Space has hit up the Globe now

“Did a pro-mass -immigration troll just rig the votes on these comments. A huge swing all one way against critical comments.
Has anyone else noticed this? “

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Infantry is always prompt and organized when the party calls on defense.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

There are some pieces that don’t fit together in our narrative. Something I don’t get: (1) Isn’t China supposed to be against all the people leaving and bringing out large sums of money, much of it illegally acquired? Doesn’t it want Canada to be better at coordinating with it to extradite criminals (and supposedly we have difficulty with that because of their death penalty)? (2)On the other hand, we also have good reason to think that China has trolls spinning the narrative so as to keep it easy for Chinese nationals to buy property and businesses and exploit systems. So which is it: how does China officially or unofficially stand with respect to the very real and serious housing crisis in Vancouver for the people who live here?

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

That is exactly the problem with anything related to China. The notorious lack of trust and incurable dishonesty combined with particular agenda no matter what it is, and as long as at the end, the gain has been made by taking advantage of the other side. It is always some games, contradictions, counteractions, like one confuse another and get ahead. A dog eats dog or even better, locust eats locust mindset and philosophy.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9NieIZXm_NE/UbUgMlfVrlI/AAAAAAAAoVg/JWHfyDgqCEA/s1600/draft_lens18071676module150996803photo_1308675871insect_eat_grasshopper_bu.jpg

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

It’s dog eat dog over there… sometimes literally.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

I don’t know which of those critters is the most repulsive.

patriotz
Member

“how does China officially or unofficially stand with respect to the very real and serious housing crisis in Vancouver for the people who live here?”

Why on earth should they take any stand? Why this obsesssion with China? This crisis exists because of the policies of our own elected governments and will end if and when these governments change them.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Well… it’s pretty common for different countries to take a stand on economically relevant events happening in some other country, particularly when the countries are major trading partners as Canada and China are, and becoming even more so. Think of Brexit for recent example, and how all kinds of other countries in Europe and outside of Europe spoke up about that. They spoke up about it mostly because of entwined economies.

patriotz
Member

Come on, that’s a major international trade issue, not a domestic UK issue. What other countries are taking stands on, say, the London housing situation?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

I don’t think the London housing market is comparable to ours with respect to the effect that it is having on the integrity of the city. London is 2000 years old, a huge cultural center for much of its history and a huge financial centre. We are not even 200 years old, have some good things going, but they need nurturing.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Nevertheless I do think it is an international issue whether Vancouver thrives. I would not think it relevant to Romania’s concerns particularly but I do think it is relevant to concerns of Pacific ocean countries.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“How Canada’s hot housing markets could impact the country’s big banks”, BNN video

http://www.bnn.ca/how-canada-s-hot-housing-markets-could-impact-the-country-s-big-banks-1.542102

“As Canada’s big banks prepare to report their third-quarter earnings in two weeks, National Bank Financial says its outlook for the banking sector depends on the sustainability of surging property prices in the country’s hottest housing markets.”

“The report, sent to clients Monday, warned that a shock to the housing market may impact household asset classes outside of real estate secured lending and “could quickly infect the broader Canadian economy.””

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

More and more articles in China about Vanouver Housing.
“Vancouver home sales plunge in wake of foreign buyer tax”
http://www.szdaily.com/content/2016-08/08/content_13697382.htm

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

West side detached market is ice cold.

I still haven’t seen post Aug 2.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

“a single sale” post Aug 2.

vangrl
Member
vangrl

where can you see the sales BPOM? thanks

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

You have to sign up for a PCS account with a realtor who offers it – there are only a few that do.

Try this one:

http://www.mikestewart.ca/private-client-services

vangrl
Member
vangrl

thanks

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Keep in mind you can only monitor a submarket, not get general stats as you’re limited to 500 listings per account.

Use other e-mail addresses to sign up for more accounts if you like.

Bear Vancouverite
Guest
Bear Vancouverite
@Patriotz: “Space is right. Someone who owns a strata unit and doesn’t want to live in it has a simple solution – sell it. This ultimately has the same effect on rental supply as if it was rented out. Provided it doesn’t sit empty of course, and government should change the tax system to penalize those who let dwellings sit empty, whether condos or houses. There another issue that hasn’t been brought up – stratas need the power to stop AirBNB type rentals if the city isn’t wiling to do anything about it.” This point is very important. We’re barking up the wrong tree trying to villanize strata rights to control their rental bylaws. The solution to lack of rentals AND to part of housing affordability is to tax empty homes and make that tax progressively higher the less BC… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I like row houses. I grew up in one.

Stratas can stop AirBNB but it is hard to prove it. I have a friend who begged me to pose as a would-be renter to catch out someone in her strata. I declined, as that kind of thing can damage your AirBNB rating. I don’t believe they ever proved it. AirBNB should have to deliver copies of payment records to the CRA and whoever is responsible for enforcing the Hotel Keepers Act. That would slow a lot of amateur hotel keeps down.

Sino Columbia
Guest
Sino Columbia
I’ve done the analysis and regret to inform you that rent prices are going to go through the roof. Doubling foreign students here in BC means another 50,000 wealthy foreign students. About half will buy detached homes and the other half will have no problem paying $2500 rent. And 10 year visitor visas means another 540,000 people will be granted 10 year visitor visas next year…, most from China. If you have ever applied for these, you know you have to be wealthy to get one. Good luck. This is going to get a whole lot worse. Its the politically correct tree hugging bike rider Caucasians that are going to suffer big time here. You made your bed now…. Trudeau, Christy, and Harper…selling out Canadians. Note Christy does 15% tax and Trudeau the drama teacher helps her real estate buddies… Read more »
Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Assuming this is all correct people have few options:

1) Pack and leave the city to settle elsewhere, Europe, Asia, Afrika, US, South America…
2) Get a really well-paid local job or start lucrative business and keep up with the challenge
3) Stand-up and start the fight to eliminate the challange.
4) What else?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

The common folk are screwed. Too naive and can be brainwashed with news. No hope.

Everyone for themselves.

YLTNboomerang
Member
Ha, the problem is what we consider a really well-paid local job is still peanuts compared to foreign money paying foreign tax rates. Personally I am a top 5% income earner if I go with Canada-wide stats and while I can afford to buy in this market I don’t. The funny thing is that we live in a small complex and I know for a fact based on jobs of the owners in the complex (we are the only renters) that we are likely the highest income earning household yet still are viewed as “the poor renters”, it is surreal! On a side note, when we first moved in the parking lot was full of average 3-5 year old cars, over the last 3 years it is now 75% Audi/BMW/Merc and I know that nobody has won the lottery or… Read more »
HAMster
Guest
HAMster

Houses are for poor people.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Yeah same here. Although we bought, we drive a beat up car or bike or take the bus. In my complex, are all nice cars, but I know they are mostly middle class folks. I know one Chinese lady who works as a check in agent at the airport who drives a BMW.

I want a huge crash just so I can gloat and tell people I told you so, even though I own in this market.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

There is nothing the least bit special about driving a BMW.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Nope, nothing at all. But people like to think so. Wife’s friend, a mainlander, who makes barely more than minimum wage drives one and says, even the parking attendant treats her better. Hilarious

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Winnipeg house prices soared by 103% over a decade, report finds” CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/house-prices-winnipeg-peg-1.3713717

“The average price of a single detached home rose to $278,220 in 2015 from $137,062 in 2005 — a hike of 103 per cent in that period, the data shows.”

“That’s a rate of growth higher than across Canada, where growth in house prices climbed 78 per cent to an average cost of $442,877 by 2015.”

tim
Guest
tim

Hey, Winnipeg is a World Class city. Buy now or be priced out forever!

And if you have a problem with wealth creation in Winnipeg, you’re just jealous.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

No. It’s die to their blood relative immigration program. You can sponsor 1 family that is blood related to you via the provincial PNP immigration program

Resulted in population growth and the new immigrant residents stayed there. .

tim
Guest
tim

If you look up housing prices, Winnipeg ramped up around 2003, same as most other cities in Canada. Their pop growth rate is low, around 0.5% a year. IMHO Winnipeg is the test case for how much of the housing prices growth is due to federal CMHC and interest rate policy.

The peg’s housing prices have doubled, while Vancouver’s tripled, over the same time period. So that says half of Vancouver’s issue is “foreign investment” or immigration, and half federal mortgage-pumping policy.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You are mostly right, Tim, but I think we can factor in a lot of Vancouver’s growth to “plausible story” pressure. There is no way a person in Winnipeg can imagine that they are running out of land, or that everyone wants to move there, or that the Chinese are coming. So all of Winnipeg’s appreciation can be attributed to banks peddling larger and larger loans, which the stupid people of Winnipeg use to buy the exact same houses as before (probably with some granite countertops thrown in). Meanwhile, half of Vancouver’s appreciation is attributable to being just as stupid as people in Winnipeg and most of the other half is attributable to being even stupider than the people in Winnipeg by believing silly stories. There is also a bit
attributable to foreign money.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

That is incorrect Tim.

Madashell
Guest
Madashell

280 thousands (Winnipeg) verse 1.7 million (Vancouver)

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

You can get more than 6 houses vs one house in Vancouver. This is insane.

YLTNboomerang
Member

I remember growing up my folks telling me that due to the “power of compounding interest” money put away today should double in 10 years. Conventional wisdom works when interest rates are 7.2% but nowadays…seeing a property double is “nuts”.

patriotz
Member
paulb
Member

New
284
Sold
120

TI:9409

http://www.paulboenisch.com

Adult Huggies
Guest
Adult Huggies

Definitely trending up. Thanks Paul.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

And very high listings almost daily.

Adult huggies
Guest
Adult huggies

At this pace easy 10000+ by end of august

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Yeah, but historically 10K is nothing in Vancouver. There are still too many sales to say that the market is turning.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

A few submarkets in detached have already turned.

MOI for Van west is up to 7, van east up to 6, west Van up to 10, Richmond up to 6.

These submarkets had MOI’s of 2 or 3 a couple of months ago.

Condos still have tight inventory for now.

Adult huggies
Guest
Adult huggies

Yes but thats just by the end of august, if it continues to grow we could be well over 15000 by the end of the year. Right now we are in the denial phase of the bubble when we hit fear and the average joe realizes market is going to tank then its going to get very interesting. The average joe believes what the RE boards feed them. Herd mentality on the way up and down.

Adult Huggies
Guest
Adult Huggies

I predict we will hit the fear stage if there is a drastic decline in the % of foreign buyers in the governments next data release.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

15000 is not super high either, but it would be if it happened in the winter. Of course, the average joe has no idea what any of these numbers mean. Only falling prices will get his attention. And as every past dip has been just that for as long as many people can remember, we will need crying people on TV and double digit unemployment to win hearts and minds.

mo yan
Guest
mo yan

“Right now we are in the denial phase of the bubble ” hah ahahahhaa

Adult Huggies
Guest
Adult Huggies

keep denying, fear is coming 😉

Detailed data
Guest
Detailed data

Am interested in sfd sales in van west Paul. Where do I get that data?

Trickle down is what it’s all about here.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

I am actually more interested in knowing if Paul has ever gotten single customer via this website? I would be genuinely interested to know as he puts in time every single day here.

yvr2zrh
Member

I can say that I would call him first when I come to town to buy – – Which would be in my future – (barring a vacancy tax). Also – I would recommend him to anyone if they needed someone. There is something about simple ongoing reliability. It’s not a lot of time for him and since he does not come here and endlessly debate things – he is not wasting much time. This is a simple statistic that is probably posted here faster than he could update a webpage.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Vancouver drop in building permits is country’s biggest”, Business in Vancouver
https://www.biv.com/article/2016/8/vancouver-drop-building-permits-countrys-biggest/

“Building permits are down across the province, led by a steep decline in Vancouver numbers according to figures released August 8 by Statistics Canada.”

“Vancouver had the biggest drop in permits of any census metropolis area in Canada, with the total value falling 25.2% to $580 million in June. This was also a 20% drop in comparison to June of 2015.”

“The Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver (REBGV) released figures last week showing home sales dipping below the 4,000 sales mark in July for the first time since January.”

Its_the_ALR_stupid
Guest
Its_the_ALR_stupid

It’s almost as if Vancouver developers had some kind of advance “insider” warning of the new tax.

I wonder who might have told them?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Perhaps banks are less willing to get behind them.

patriotz
Member

The article says building permits are down across the province. If developers were acting in anticipation of the new tax one would expect a negative effect in Metro Vancouver only and a positive effect elsewhere, particularly places like Victoria or Abbotsford.

On the other hand, what they may have been anticipating is an NDP victory next spring, which would fit the province wide numbers better. Or just a bust no matter who’s in power.

yvr2zrh
Member
When industry people say that supply is the problem – the issue is that the industry itself is in control of supply. It’s almost like the diamond cartel. There is lots of supply that is possible but it is restrained to maintain maximum price. They want the perfect balance of demand and supply to maximize price. How can it be that with such high prices and supposedly high demand that the supply does not just flood the market? It is because supply is limited and trickling it onto the market over time maintains high prices. So – the only way to address this cartel like activity – is to provide blunt force changes in demand. However- perhaps now – we will see supply will suddenly stop (which will start the chain of events leading to higher unemployment etc). When you… Read more »
patriotz
Member

No, all owners collectively are control of supply because supply is all dwellings for sale. Low supply is due to people hanging on to properties (which may be underused or even empty) simply because they think prices are going up, and government policies which encourage this.

It’s a historical fact that the amount of housing stock increases faster when prices are rising, and increases slower when prices are falling. If there were actually a cartel controlling prices the opposite would be true.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

We are doomed, now Whistler one of the last BC locust-free oasis will go down to toilet. No more safe skiing for the pros and the rest of locals who are good and fast…

“We have felt for a long time that Whistler Blackcomb is really the best positioned North American resort to benefit from the growth that we expect in outbound Chinese ski visitation, especially as China starts to ramp up towards the 2022 Beijing Winter Olympics,” said Katz.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/08/08/vail-resorts-whistler-blackcomb_n_11386484.html

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

The next big thing, fake ski passes of all kinds flooding the local mountains.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

No need for fake passes. The Caucasians drop them off the gondola for their buddies to pick up and re-use.

mls watch
Guest
mls watch

I am not worried. Mountains have their own way of selecting the fittest. For example in the summer, in Lake Louise, the flip-flop crowd stays by the lake, the sneakers crowd hikes to the tea house, and the rest enjoys peace and quiet.

yvr2zrh
Member

Clearly there is no story here – – who cares who owns this. However – it would be a controversy if a foreign buyer (i.e. from China) decided to buy the whole resort and then just shutter it and close it because they did not wan the hassle of running a business – since the mountain will maintain its value anyway. . . or go up over time . . That’s the issue with the residential real estate purchases is the removal of the properties from the housing stock . . one by one . . .

LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus

Exactly.

I\'m with Stupid
Guest
I\'m with Stupid

Stop raining on the hate parade by Combat et al.
All this logic is hurting their brains.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Who cares. Whistler was always a publicly traded company. Shareholders were Canadian and foreign. Now it’s just a another publicly traded company, albeit one that trades on a US exchange. Makes no difference.

Bull! Bull! Bull!
Guest
Bull! Bull! Bull!

lol, remember this? it was 5 years ago.

Hospice controversy in Vancouver

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbu2DJdvqQk

vancouverites should have seen the writing on the wall then.

mls watch
Guest
mls watch

Well, the hospice was built…

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Haha. I remember it well. It was horrifying and fascinating at the same time. Glad to know the hospice did in the end get built.

patriotz
Member

UBC happens to be in Point Grey provincial riding, which the NDP captured in the next general election. Maybe another kind of writing.

OPENHOUSEMASSACRE
Guest
OPENHOUSEMASSACRE

LOOK AT THESE CHINESE IDIOTS IN THIS VIDEO TALKING ABOUT GHOSTS ATTACKING THEM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc8GcHYDPvE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr7mR9p24qM

Bull! Bull! Bull!
Guest
Bull! Bull! Bull!

the charm offensive continues.

Chinese groups in Vancouver step up charitable efforts

http://www.theprovince.com/business/local+business/chinese+groups+vancouver+step+charitable+efforts/12114631/story.html

I\'m with Stupid
Guest
I\'m with Stupid

GTFO traitor.

(Is what some would say here)

Madashell
Guest
Madashell

Christine Duhaime: “Guess how many more cases they are of people from China chilling in mansions in Vancouver with money absconded from Chinese banks? Over 100.”
We know who and where you live and coming to get ya

MCallum
Guest
MCallum

Yes but the kids and mom now get to keep the money. Christy and Trudeau will make sure of that.

LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus
I have always maintained that it’s first and foremost a bubble caused by too much debt being taken on domestically. Causing this or compounding this is also foreign money of which I am now of the view is also mostly borrowed. When you seen just one case of these “structures” you know there has to be plenty more. I am with Marc Cohodes who says that the Chinese gov’t does not want this happening and now the BC gov’t has realized that people are fed up and not only that, the current state of housing in Vancouver is hands down untenable. So you really do have this *perfect storm* brewing. Cdns, particularly those in Van, couldn’t borrow another penny, even if they wanted to. Foreign buyers are being scrutinized (and will continue to be reigned in) on all fronts (banks,… Read more »
Time to go
Guest
Time to go

I agree completely with this viewpoint. My only hesitation is interest rates. If you look to Calgary, you’ll see how prices can remain sticky even with a deterioration of jobs. Without interest rates rising people will just continue to make their payments even into their retirement years. I guess, when they are up for renewal banks may force them to come up with the difference if prices fall and that can cause a shock. But until interest rates move, I have a hard time seeing a big correction, even though that’s what I am hoping for.

Kim
Guest
Kim

I agree here too. Nothing will change unless rates go up. A 3k mortgage will go to 4K on a 1% rise in rates. That will kill a lot of households who will force to sell but there will be no buyers. US will raise rates sooner rather than later. You will either see the BoC raise or if they are too scared prepare for the dollar to plummet even more. Inflation will pick up and Canadians will not be able to afford mortgages when their budgets get squeezed. Only question is will the Chinese come and buy more when the dollar tanks as they did the last couple years. Remember the dollar has dropped 25-30% since its peak so the return on Vancouver real estate has actually not been that good.

mls watch
Guest
mls watch

Meanwhile, the price of many necessary goods, like food and electricity, is going up. Adding pressure on a family budget.

MCallum
Guest
MCallum

Wrong. Prices falling don’t matter at mortgage renewal time.

People so naive. Doomed.

Kim
Guest
Kim

It matters if when you renew, you can no longer afford your mortgage and are forced to sell. But if there are no buyers because no one can afford what you are asking, you will be forced to lower prices because you just simply can’t make payments. If you are underwater, it can destroy you.

bestplaceonearth
Guest
bestplaceonearth

if you keep your payments in good order, banks generally don’t require the borrowers to re-applying at renewal, and your are not forced to sell. Nice try!

Kim
Guest
Kim

IF you keep your payments in good order. When rates rise, how many won’t be able to keep their payments going?

Kim
Guest
Kim

Not sure what you are saying. When you renew if rates are higher you pay the higher rate. Nice try though.

Best place on earth
Guest
Best place on earth

When do rates go higher? Bears always have cracked crystal balls.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

That analysis would make sense if interest rates made mortgage payments cheap, but the mortgage payment on a million dollars at 2.5% is still 4.5 large. If one family member loses a job, you don’t just suck it up and keep paying 4.5 grand a month. Even scrimping and saving you need to have, say, 9 K a month coming in to have a hope of hanging on. But a million dollars is a small mortgage here. It’s the kind of mortgage held by people who are just scraping by. How likely are families like that to have 110K/year in a downturn.

These are numbers for the bottom of the market. What happens to people who bought a SFH in the past year?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

For the last time, people buying million dollar homes aren’t taking out mortgages out of necessity.

MCallum
Guest
MCallum

Wrong. Mortgage debt has remained relatively stable over last 3 years.

patriotz
Member

Canadian household debt soars to yet another record

For all of 2015, household debt rose 4.9 per cent, the fastest pace in four years, to a record $1.92-trillion. That included a 6.3-per-cent surge in mortgage debt, also the fastest since 2011, reflecting low borrowing costs and surging real estate prices in key regions, especially in Toronto and Vancouver. Disposable income, meanwhile, grew by a more modest 3 per cent.

Given RE prices in Canada outside Toronto and Vancouver have been flat for the past few years, the numbers for these metros must be worse.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Isn’t a Canadian mantra “debt is good for you”? Can’t suffer because RE always goes up.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Exactly. No reason to blame foreigners, see?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Yeah, so?

4.9%? The bulk of that (around3%) is accounted by the fact that older Canadians (who have owned 20+ years) are retiring mortgage debt while the young generation buys condos with considerable debt.

The other 2% is simple population growth.

The YVR RE is all held together with China money inflows. You never give up trying to deceive Patriotz.

So, hows the job at the immigration department in Ottawa? Talk to MacCallum about this blog?

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