You can buy, but you can’t rent

The BC Court of Appeal has upheld the right of a strata corporation to limit rentals in a condo building.

The ruling on Friday states that the strata council of Hycroft Towers in Vancouver’s South Granville neighbourhood can restrict its owners from renting out their suites – without explaining why – because anyone who feels they have been treated unfairly can take their case to the B.C. Supreme Court.

The dismissal of the appeal reinforces the right of strata councils to stop rentals in their buildings, a tactic that experts say might be creating more pressure on the region’s extremely tight rental market.

The case centred around a family that began renting out one of the three units they owned at Hycroft Towers last September – despite an earlier rejection of their application to expand the rental pool in the building by the strata council.

The family argued that, under the province’s strata laws, the council must also provide the criteria by which it grants permission for owners to rent their units.

However, Justice Gregory James Fitch ruled that it is “difficult to imagine that an acceptable screening criteria for administering the rent restriction cap [such as the ‘needs-based’ system proposed by the appellants] could be devised that would comply with [provincial law].”

Ah, condo ownership, where you get all the bills without the hassle of all the control.

Read the full article in the Globe and Mail.

On a side note, we’ve disabled the inline image rendering in comments. We made it a surprisingly long time before it degenerated into out of control garbage and it was nice to be able to see the occasional graph rendered in a comment, but clearly you people can’t be trusted.

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Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

In the meantime, our business buddies keep building AI resorts in South Sea. Wonder if Sunwing and Westjet will soon start flying there and Vancouverites get the special discount once when they start going at those attractive tropical destinations?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-37031049

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth
Madashell
Guest
Madashell

Also. Vietnam moves new rocket launchers into disputed South China Sea.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-vietnam-exclusive-idUSKCN10K2NE

Its_the_ALR_stupid
Guest
Its_the_ALR_stupid

I have a question for you Patriotz. You keep saying “It’s not foreign money, it’s government policies that have fueled prices.”

Okay, but what about government policies that relate to foreign money? Things like the QIIP, or immigration rules that allow people to move anywhere in Canada (ie Vancouver/Toronto) rather than requiring settlement in less populated regions like the prairies or the maritimes? What about lax money laundering oversight policies? How about government policies that allow unlimited foreign ownership? How about government policies that encourage / allow immigration based on wealth rather than ability? What about government policies aimed at increasing foreign enrollment in our universities?

Aren’t these all government policies? Don’t they have an influence on Vancouver area prices? If not, why not?

patriotz
Member

Sure they have an influence, but that’s because government policies encourage speculation and malinvestment in RE. For example, suppose the tax laws deemed anyone (or any entity) owning a luxury property to have a taxable income 1/3 of its purchase price . The money going into such properties would go somewhere else.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Our friend Ross Kay suggested not only a 15% tax on purchased property for foreigners but also 50% tax on any income made when they sell the property. I am surprise there is nothing like this in place. Get your shit together justin!

patriotz
Member

I don’t think that would impact foreign buyers much, especially given the 15% PTT is part of the adjusted cost base of the property. What would have an impact is increasing the holding cost, by imputed income as given above, or an outright property tax penalty – how about 15% per annum?

space889
Member
space889

Which will just make the buyers put the property into a number company and sell it that way. Much like how most commercial property sales are done to avoid the purchase transfer tax. And if it is all foreigners are claimed by some on this blog, I don’t see why the purchase price would be set at basically the original purchase price, and other considerations in the buyer & seller’s home country? What would you gain in that case with the 50% tax on gains?

Its_the_ALR_stupid
Guest
Its_the_ALR_stupid

Thanks for the reply. No argument from me that other government policies (also) have a huge role to play. Personally, I think it’s a combination of both.

On the topic of other taxes, I think we should consider an overhaul of our tax system to one with higher property taxes and lower income taxes. Low property taxes are one of the reasons explicitly cited by foreign owners for why they prefer Vancouver to other cities. And it’s obscene that Vancouver home owners have made more money in the past year from sitting in their houses than working people have made doing something that creates value. Our tax system should reward actual work, not house price speculation.

patriotz
Member

“I think we should consider an overhaul of our tax system to one with higher property taxes and lower income taxes.”

That is the point exactly and the position of Davidoff. Rationally taxation should depend more on consumption rather than production, and on sources that cannot be concealed.

The problem is that a such a change would impact those who bet their future on continued low RE taxation, which is an awful lot of Canadians. However at least we can start with property owned by foreigners and those who have not reported income not appropriate to their RE ownership.

realist
Member
realist

“because government policies encourage speculation and malinvestment in RE.”
Correct, and oh, how so. Any econometricians on the blog care to speculate about the mountain of capital gains tax foregone owing to exemption of the principal residence from capital gains tax since its imposition in …1971?!

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

If I can weigh in on this one, when you are trying to find a cause, it is worth looking at correlated changes.

There have not been many significant changes in any of the government policies that you cite which coincide with increases in prices. There have, however, been changes in monetary policies CMHC policies. So, sure, you could probably influence the market by changing immigration policies, but that’s a guess. Nobody knows for sure how effective that would be.

On the other hand, if you capped CMHC insurance at 5x median household income, and extended it only to first-time buyers with a 10% downpayment, I can guran-damn-tee you that prices would drop a long, long way.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

That’s an idea I haven’t heard before. I like it. Capping CMHC insurance at 5x median household income. Why ever is that not already in place?

realist
Member
realist

“So, sure, you could probably influence the market by changing immigration policies, but that’s a guess. Nobody knows for sure how effective that would be.” Well, Halifax and Vancouver have same the same chartered banks, interest rates, CMHC policies, hapless government, etc, but very different immigration rates. Draw your own conclusions.

space889
Member
space889

Didn’t Winnipeg house prices went up more in percentage terms than Vancouver? I doubt they get many rich mainland Chinese there.

patriotz
Member

Until about 2013 yes – Wpeg has been pretty flat since. So for a decade Winnipeg went up at a higher rate with very little immigration.

It’s true Vancouver and Toronto have both high immigration and high prices, but there are a lot more cities without this link. Victoria is the same size as Halifax and gets few immigrants, but is far more expensive. Montreal has always been a major immigrant destination but is relatively inexpensive.

Its_the_ALR_stupid
Guest
Its_the_ALR_stupid

So to recap, of the 6 cities you mentioned, the 3 with the highest prices are Vancouver, Toronto, and Victoria. All of them have green belts.

The 3 with the lowest prices – Halifax, Montreal, and Winnipeg – have no green belt. Is that just a coincidence?

patriotz
Member
– land restrictions will cause higher rents and prices in the same proportion. They are not responsible for bubbles where prices are out of proportion to rents. – Calgary, Canada’s third most expensive city, has no greenbelt. – Ottawa, which has a greenbelt, is Canada’s cheapest big city relative to incomes. And that’s not just the NCC Greenbelt but the City of Ottawa rural designated area which is far bigger. – Land restrictions only matter if they impact growth. Victoria is one of the slowest growing metros in the country. There is enough land in the Colwood area for decades to come. Check out the Bear Mountain bankruptcy. – Condo prices are not affected by land restrictions since they use so little per unit. So why are they so high in Vancouver? – SFH in Vancouver and Toronto would be… Read more »
realist
Member
realist

Victoria has high in-migration of relatively rich retirees, and is also a Vancouver satellite city. Montreal is a politically created economic mess in its own special category.
Do you think a model encompassing foreign immigration and net national in-migration, both scaled for wealth, plus foreign direct investment, could account for the large price differentials between Halifax and Vancouver?

Its_the_ALR_stupid
Guest
Its_the_ALR_stupid

Of course. As I’ve said before, I believe there are many factors involved. And I think the ALR / Greenbelt is one of those factors.

Frankly I find it rather bewildering how many people refuse to acknowledge its influence on prices – especially detached prices in the Lower Mainland. Maybe they just don’t want to believe its true because they support it in principle.

space889
Member
space889

It’s like people driving SUV everywhere and complaining about greenhouse gases, global warming, evils of oil pipeline, dirty oil sands, environmental disaster of having gas refinery. But their driving of SUV everywhere is ok because you know, it’s a hybrid SUV! Good for environment!

Or those people that drive electric cars, think everyone should go electric or at least hybrid, and yet oppose to any more BC Hydro dam projects or gas/coal/nuclear power plans. Yeah because electricity that powers their car just magically appears out of thin air.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Now you can go online and bid against other people for the privilege of having a rental to live in.

https://biddwell.com/s/?city=vancouver

Isn’t Vancouver just an awesome place to be?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Terrific. … I think I’m going to go muck around in Seattle tomorrow, and maybe Bellingham and Point Roberts.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Indeed an awesome place to be…

Cities like Rio de Janeiro, Manila, and Mumbai are characterized by extreme inequality. That’s facilitated the rise of so-called slum tourism, in which guides take out-of-town visitors to a poorer region of the city for stops at social enterprises, small businesses, and maybe a school.

These tours showcase local ingenuity and put much-needed money in the pockets of the working poor. Or they dehumanize and exploit marginalized people living in poverty.

One such tour was featured in a travel column in the Toronto Star last week, but this one showcases a particular area of Vancouver.

“In any other neighbourhood, people coming around to look at people would seem a bit strange,” she said. “Would you go to Kerrisdale or Point Grey and go walking around looking at people watering their plants?”

http://www.straight.com/news/751026/residents-call-downtown-eastside-walking-tour-voyeurism-worst-kind

Randy Sterling
Guest
Randy Sterling

I’m a renter and recently moved. I’ll tell you one thing, limited inventory and so much demand has a created off-line bidding wars on rentals. I don’t think that this site encourages people to bid against other people. The homepage says the offers are “sealed” so you don’t know what someone else offered. They speak to identifying “Fair Market Value”. It kind of makes sense to me.

space889
Member
space889

But bidding on a house to buy is just so different!!??

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Yes, because nobody NEEDS to own.

space889
Member
space889

Nobody NEEDS to rent either, they can buy! They can move! They can stay with M&D.

Kim
Guest
Kim

It’s been going on for a while in the Bay Area now.

paulb
Member

New
207
Sold
109
TI:9442

http://www.paulboenisch.com

rockerguy
Member
rockerguy

August data shows the market adding 60 net-new listings per day. That is the fastest inventory growth for any month since 2013. The average inventory growth in August is -22 (i.e. 22 more properties sold each day than listed). The 95% CI is +/- 22, so that gives us a range of -44 to 0. Plus 60 is enormously out of whack for August.

ttul
Member

Here is a chart of inventory by day of the year, as a scatter plot. I added polynomial trendlines, which fit quite well (R^2 of >95%, except for this year which is an outlier).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dYtxpv5aEMF-Ccyyb8sKmtHI4nQL8rqP4vEVxMx4VUc/pubchart?oid=1701525396&format=interactive

MikeS
Member
MikeS

Check out (New – Sold)/(Inventory). It’s a decent modification of your original chart. The spike from July carries into August so far. It’s pretty nutty.

jhgf
Guest
jhgf

Bernie Sanders Buys His Third Home – A $600K Summer Retreat in Vermont

http://www.people.com/article/bernie-sanders-600k-summer-home-vermont

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Just checked Chipman’s numbers. Avg sale price today $888K, avg list price $888K….hmmm, smacks of desparation by sellers. My guess is every listing today was 888K exactly!

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Nothing matters after the release of the ten year visa numbers.

1000 Chinese per day are coming here. All have money. Only way to qualify for it. Otherwise you become a risk not to return.

Funkeymonkey
Member
Funkeymonkey

Oracle you never have any facts to support what you say.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

True story.

He’s full of shit. Just incoherent rantings about 10 year visas and his cousins.

space889
Member
space889

Who he is BRINGING here on the 10 year visas he’s complaining about so loudly.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

And they all end up in Vancouver Somehow, a complete fuckup…

Liberals Aim To Open Floodgates To Chinese Migrants, Investment

“The flow of people between China and Canada is already growing rapidly. Since 2010, when China approved Canada as a tourist destination, the number of ten-year visas to Canada issued to Chinese nationals has grown to nearly 400,000 annually from around 28,000.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/08/10/liberals-increase-chinese-investment-migrants_n_11434858.html

xyz
Guest
xyz

Justin Trudeau: How to fix the broken temporary foreign worker program

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/05/05/how_to_fix_the_broken_temporary_foreign_worker_program_justin_trudeau.html

Trudeau seemed to know all about how to fix it two years ago

franko
Member
franko

A scary combo, our Justin and McCallum!
Welcome to reality.
Sadly, not much consolation in not having voted for the idiots.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Plus rents are going to skyrocket.

They will become detached from incomes very soon if another 400,000 ten year visas are issued in the next year– 200,000 more will come to Vancouver.

Where is the rioting?

space889
Member
space889

I thought bears said rent can’t detach from income? Unlike house prices?

Well, maybe you can start by NOT sponsoring your relatives back home on 10Y super visa…

Do your part!

Funkeymonkey
Member
Funkeymonkey

Oracle has no facts. Here is a listing on CL there are many.https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/nvn/apa/5713229478.html

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Bingo!!

This is the cause of the spike in prices. I have extended relatives here on the 10 year visitor visas and they are rich (only wealthy people get it). They are all working at family firms for up to 2 years at a time.

Vancouver is done. Sold out.

Incredible.

space889
Member
space889

And yet you are on here bitching about immigrants and visitors, and need to ban them?? Maybe you should maybe start you know? Put your $$ where your big mouth is? Follow your own advice and values? Start walk the talk?? Stop pretending you can have your cake and eat it too?

Wait, how does that last expression indicates a contradiction?? If you have the cake then why can’t you eat it?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You can eat the cake, but then you won’t have it anymore. Think: save your money and spend it too.

space889
Member
space889

But then why buy / make the cake in the first place? Just to admire it and watch it grow moldy??

The save your money and spend it too makes more sense I think. But if you save and invest and spend the returns, it’s kind of like having both? No?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

I’m going to go on a rant here. It pisses me off that most here are talking about sales, debt, interest rates etc.

That isn’t going to affect prices when you have 100,000+ people moving to the lower mainland. You guys are going to find out the hard way now .

Rents are going vertical right now. Good luck affording the $3000/month condo. Just watch what’s going to happen.

space889
Member
space889

I thought bears categorically stated that rent can go verticle, out of control, because it is paid of current income?? If so then what’s the issue?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Yes, and the bears are right. There is no issue.

rockerguy
Member
rockerguy

I think you meant to write “can’t”, and that would be accurate. When vacancy drops to zero, unless incomes rise, renters leave town. That outcome is actually more disastrous to the local economy than high rents are in and of themselves.

patriotz
Member

I think what’s more significant is that renters double up, go back to M&D, or don’t leave M&D in the first place. In other words rental demand is elastic.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Not all renters are kids, nor do they all have nearby relatives.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

But they are all constrained by income. Because, unlike a mortgage, banks will not lend you money to pay your rent, if you can’t make it work, you share with more people or you leave. In New York, my home office was so tiny, I couldn’t push my chair out more than two feet from my desk. But our upstairs neighbors had one roommate using the same space as a bedroom. We all put up with it because it was New York and being in New York was important to our careers. I can’t see Vancouver having that kind of draw.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

The upper bound is about 50% of income, which in Vancouver works out to about 3K/month/household but you usually only get there in places where there is a lot of perceived opportunity.

Funkeymonkey
Member
Funkeymonkey

I have applied for another job out of town so me and my family can move.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Bring it on!

“Federal authorities say foreign nationals coming to Vancouver to have babies aren’t breaking any laws as long as they can show they have money to pay for their medical care.,

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/nothing-illegal-about-birth-tourism-at-b-c-hospitals

HAMster
Guest
HAMster

This is yet another way they abuse our generous system. We are the fools.

space889
Member
space889

They are paying the full cost of medical care, how are they abusing the system?

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“As Ottawa doubts effectiveness of Vancouver tax to slow housing market, Trudeau finds himself in a bind”, Financial Post
http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mortgages-real-estate/as-ottawa-doubts-effectiveness-of-vancouver-tax-to-slow-housing-market-trudeau-finds-himself-in-a-bind

“Federal government officials studying the move have doubts about its effectiveness to slow the market, according to two people familiar with discussions on the matter who spoke on condition they not be identified. Offsetting factors include Vancouver’s lack of supply and Canada’s record-low interest rates. ”

“It could, however, be a problem for Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. He has promised to act on the affordability issue but is worried any full-blown attack to contain Vancouver and Toronto — the country’s two most expensive markets — would trigger declines in the rest of the economy, or even produce a major correction.”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Housing intervention could sideswipe Canada’s economy, warns CIBC economist”, BNN

http://www.bnn.ca/housing-intervention-could-sideswipe-canada-s-economy-warns-cibc-economist-1.543842

“In a research note published Thursday, CIBC Chief Economist Avery Shenfeld said cracking down on the sector which accounts for the largest portion of domestic GDP could put the brakes on what tepid growth the Canadian economy currently boasts.”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“‘Major exports headache’ could force Bank of Canada to cut rates again this year: Nomura”, BNN

http://www.bnn.ca/major-exports-headache-could-force-bank-of-canada-to-cut-rates-again-this-year-nomura-1.543726

“Canada’s perennially disappointing exports could force Bank of Canada Governor Stephen Poloz to cut rates again this year, according to the economics team at Nomura”

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

medium to longer term the loonie is headed back to the mid 60’s. many canadians will be left wondering why both home prices didnt crater and cost of living increased by double digits. unfortunately many will end up taking it on the chin. this new foreign tax actually gives poloz and co more leeway to keep rates low for longer (or start a new round of cuts)

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You can’t have both. If the cost of living goes up people have less money for mortgage payments.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Absolutely right. Dollar will get destroyed. Doesn’t matter that you are a millionaire when you are holding the northern peso. Hey Zimbabwe had a trillion dollar bill. Wonder how their house prices are doing

patriotz
Member

“this new foreign tax actually gives poloz and co more leeway to keep rates low for longer (or start a new round of cuts)”

Vancouver is nowhere near that important in either economic or political terms.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Both of their facial expressions – priceless.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

“The media has also downplayed the role of the massive intergenerational transfer of wealth taking place between baby boomers and their millennial offspring, the rise of property funds like real-estate investment trusts (REITs), and the over-leveraging and debt-creation behaviour of domestic consumers and local home buyers with the encouragement of the financial system.”

This “reporter” thinks that millennials are the offspring of boomers.

The Georgia Straight is a worthless rag.

MikeS
Member
MikeS

Um, Millenials *are* the offspring of boomers. Millenials and Gen Y are the same group.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Um, where does Gen X fit in, genius?

Take your time with that one.

MikeS
Member
MikeS

Gen X came immediately after the Boomers. They weren’t their children, for the most part.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

So the generation that came after the boomers aren’t their children, but the generation that came after that are.

Makes perfect sense.

MikeS
Member
MikeS

I’m trying to get your point. I was born in 1984, making me a millennial. My folks were both born in 1958, making them boomers.

If Generations usually come in 15-25 year chunks it makes sense that their kids aren’t in the immediately following one…

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

The thing is, the time periods are very different. Boomers are a long time period, a full generation, but Gen X and Gen Y are not each a full 20 years, but closer to 10 each. Boomers are delineated by historical events that had big economic effects (via the large numbers of babies at the end of WWII) whereas Gen X, and Y are delineated by any economically significant events. Rather they are delinieated more loosely, based on style and spirit of the times.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Third world, here we come!!

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

The first “reader” writes so badly that I’m not sure they’re even able to read, and the second race-baiting clown brings up the head tax.

So this is what the 10% who are against the tax are like.

LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus
I have a few thoughts on why it probably doesn’t matter if interest rates go up or not and why the bubble will burst regardless. I believe a lot of people are financing their lifestyles by borrowing equity from their homes. I once had a friend call it “living the LOC lifestyle.” (Living the Line of Credit Lifestyle). It is damn expensive to live in Vancouver, particularly if you have kids, and you have to make a pretty good family income and I would throw out $150,000 gross to just make ends meet. Of course some people are better or worse with their money. But, my experience, 50%+ of people are not good with their money including getting themselves WAY into debt. So if you’re sitting on a house that you paid $750,000 for and it’s now valued at $2… Read more »
Sellnoworbepricedin4evah
Guest
Sellnoworbepricedin4evah

Agree with everything you said.

Also. Mortgage broker friends have told me business slowed way the eff down after the tax. We will see if it lasts.
As per rates, keep your eye on LIBOR. Which is moving higher…and at 6 year highs.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Japan doesn’t have immigration.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

In 2010, the number of foreigners in Japan was 2,134,151. There were 209,373 Filipinos, 210,032 Brazilians, mostly of ethnic Japanese descent,[3] 687,156 Chinese and 565,989 Koreans. Chinese, Filipinos, Koreans, and Brazilians account for about 69.5% of foreign residents in Japan. Of all foreigners in Japan, 7.5% are spouses of Japanese nationals.[4]

a recent 2015 poll by the Asahi Shimbun found that fewer people (34%) oppose an expansion of immigration to maintain Japan’s economic status in the face of a shrinking and rapidly aging workforce, while many (51%) people support the an increased immigration.[14]

patriotz
Member

The Koreans are all Japanese born, the descendants of labourers brought in before WWII.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

as a global economic power, canada (and vancouver) is a blip on the map compared to japan. if anything, we are becoming more and more like mexico every day. the middle class will get wiped out in due course largely because of the many points you already covered. the rich and uber wealthy that have moved here (and plan to come here) wont be affected by any of this as they sit on their decks and watch life go by. in the not too distant future vancouver will consist of priceless gated palaces on private winding roads/beaches which arent publically accessible anymore and a whole bunch of apartments (HK style) which will eventually succumb to the elements and years of wear and tear and turn into slums.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Does it sound like a national civil war in making?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
If it starts in the U.S. it will move here, no doubt, mutatis mutandis for Canadian content. The housing crisis is destroying neighborhoods and quality of life for the middle class that otherwise would protect us from such chaos. Let me give a clue what I mean by quality of life: Does your landlord want to partner with you or exploit you? Does your banker want to partner with you or exploit you? Does your yoga instructor want to explore spirituality with you or make money off you? If you are a student, does your university consider you a human being or a product? If you are an instructor, do your students think you are their teacher or a tool? Does your neighborhood grocer want to sell you food for a reasonable profit or does he want to grow his… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

… and gangs on motorcycles will terrorize people in their search for “guzzolene,” with scores settled in the Thunderdome.

squeak
Member
squeak
It seems it is going that way. Housing is out of reach for young and professionals in Vancouver/Island/Fraser Valley. Just looking at what the streets look like is telling: Humans sleeping on the streets, tent cities springing up, shootings like no tomorrow in Vancouver area, drug trades, corrupted politicians, and yes, areas being cordoned off by limiting access as in you cannot seem to be able to park anywhere anymore, overzealous parking police, people begging for money left and right, numerous scam phonecalls, a media that is a joke, yes pokemon is very important to report on , isn’t it? Mismanaged economics = social crisis = becoming 3rd world. As far as I can observe, Canada has gone backwards, not advancing. I think some Canadians have gone into survival mode instead of having a somewhat decent lifestyle, which may be… Read more »
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

first it was pt grey road closure, next it will be others maybe even entire upscale neighborhoods. then the beaches get sold off to the highest bidder and become members only hangouts…

squeak
Member
squeak
People here are being systematically shut off from the land. They do similar garbage out in Victoria area as well: doing “work” on trails that are leading water/park land (that happen to have private homes neighbouring), hindering people to access beaches and some trails. I know house owners in west vancouver did that to beach access signs (growing ivy on signs, kicking them over), a water front property owner planted a huge boat on the beach hindering commoners to access the rest of the beach which was public land. Also, the one last “affordable vacation option for many Canadians “camping” has also been limited as they (gov) shut down a few thousand sites, in addition to some tour companies (new) bought up or rather reserved campsites like scalpers and selling these spots to foreigners thereby stopping regular joes to have… Read more »
space889
Member
space889

And if only we can get rid of the evil Chinese locust then all these problems will be solved! Yah…kumbanya, kumbanya….everything will be all bright and right again!

DaMann
Member
DaMann

Agree about people living off of HELOCs. Have a friend who finances everything with a LOC. Both brand new cars and their last few trips have been from their HELOC. They don’t actually pay for anything. It’s all bought with debt.

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

We just returned from a camping trip to both Manning Park and Osoyoos; the number of HUGE trucks, trailers and motor homes (all new and top of the line) makes me think the “wealth effect” is in full swing. I am quite certain many of these people have borrowed heavily against their homes to finance all of this stuff.

Time to go
Guest
Time to go

I often think that driving/biking around Vancouver. Does everyone make that much more than my partner and I? I We would be considered above avg. CND salaries in the 160k range.

squeak
Member
squeak

??

Kim
Guest
Kim

It’s not just how much you make, but how much you spend.

I used to think it’s how much you make that determines wealth. That is only one half of the equation. For example, I make more money from my investments (not real estate, although I have some REITs) than I do in my real job as a physician. Made over 100K last month due to gyrations in the stock market and knowing when to buy. This is not including dividends which are really the tried and true of building wealth. I could never make that much as a family doc. (Of course, I could just as easily lose 100K)

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer
If I knew how to hack the system, I’d give this 20 up-votes. I might mention that I own a company in Seattle and telecommute from here. My employees in Washington state telecommute from the suburbs of Seattle (on most days, there is only a shared receptionist at the downtown office). One employee is actually working from Japan at the moment. I guess I also represent the flip-side of this phenomenon, in that modern conditions allow me to live here on money earned elsewhere, but the low cost of living relative to the amenities is what brought me here, and if that changes too much, I will just leave. On the HELOC thing, I know many people who are doing this. My guess is that, even if the bank were OK with it, most people will stop borrowing when their… Read more »
patriotz
Member

” most people will stop borrowing when their house loses value ”

Unlike those on this forum, most people don’t follow the numbers and only find out prices are falling when they hit a bump such as being turned down for a HELOC.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

What about assessment time?

patriotz
Member

Yes I think some will pay attention, but a lot of people don’t give them much credibility (“my house is worth more than that”), plus there is a time lag back to last July.

squeak
Member
squeak

So in these times, the smart thing to do is to quit working as a MD, teacher, nurse, police/fire man, potgrower and just sit on a house and just sit. It pays better. The system rewards you for sitting on the butt.
Yeay Canada.

Kim
Guest
Kim

I’m sure all the fancy cars are leased. I’m a physician and I know one new grad who wanted to pay 2300 a month to lease a luxury car.

Debt will destroy us all. Make sure you don’t have debt. I’d much rather take the bus and be financially independent at 35 than buy useless crap that nobody cares about

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“What record low interest rates mean for savers, economy”, Globe & Mail
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/investor-education/what-record-low-interest-rates-mean-for-savers-economy/article31376402/

“Record low interest rates were meant to be a temporary response to the global financial crisis.”

“But eight years later, rates are still near zero or even below in much of the developed world, and some experts are warning of long-term side effects: a hit to pension savings, pressure on banks, and possible booms and busts in stock markets and real estate.”

realist
Member
realist

The best-fit metaphor is a funeral procession to the monetary cemetery. To be interred in approximately this order: pension funds, insurance companies, the bond market, governments. Joker in the procession: the stock market. Date of death: uncertain.

realist
Member
realist

OK, humour aside: “Baroness Altmann Blasts Bank of England for Pushing Pension Schemes “Over the Edge”: BoE Admits the Risk”, from Mish Shedlock:
https://mishtalk.com/2016/08/11/baroness-altmann-blasts-bank-of-england-for-pushing-pension-schemes-over-the-edge-boe-admits-its-true/
“Baroness Altmann, a UK pensions expert, was brought into the British government in 2015 by David Cameron, then prime minister. The baroness now warns the Bank of England’s QE strategies have pushed pension schemes “over the edge” because of declining yields.”

“The Bank of England essentially agrees, stating that it “fully” recognized that a long period of low interest rates put savers in a “very difficult position” which could result in bigger institutional savers moving to riskier assets. Nonetheless, the Bank of England says it will not change anything.”

patriotz
Member

Foreign buyers snap up Etobicoke house

Well that didn’t take long. Story sounds a bit contrived though.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Shit just got temporary shifted to the east but consequences for entire Canadian society will be devastating. Those termites are restless.

Madashell
Guest
Madashell

(John McCallum) In meetings Tuesday with China’s vice-minister for public security, he nonetheless discussed further “co-operation on this kind of thing, in terms of working with their people on facilitating the return of some [suspected fugitives] without having an extradition treaty.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/ottawa-pushes-china-to-boost-visa-application-sites/article31328849/
What? No extradition treaty! Doesn’t look good for Michael Ching and thousands others hiding in their million dollar mansions.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

McCallum is a sellout piece of shit, and he’s selling us out to the worst people on earth.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Bad combination, senile fart with limited reasoning power and inexperienced rookie focused on self-promotion.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

His background does not seem very broad: economist (not sure what area of focus), banker, executive. Also no indication of any deep familiarity with BC. I am concerned.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

It is a positive thing though if he is trying to find a way to send actual criminals (not merely political dissenters) back to China, if they are people who are laundering money in BC.

MikeS
Member
MikeS

Apparently he taught at SFU, so he would be somewhat familiar. It was a while ago, though.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Junior faculty member trying to get tenure, probably working all the time and didn’t get around.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Corruption in China is so bad that the Chinese police ask foreign News to expose corruption in China.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT4v3m99IEA
And we want to open the floodgate to more corruptions!

Kim
Guest
Kim

Our snowboarder PM is in way over his head.

Kim
Guest
Kim

PRICE DRASTICALLY REDUCED…..INVESTORS, BUILDERS ALERT. EXCELLENT FLAT CORNER LOT, 5749 sq.ft. in prime Marpole area.

2.25m for a tear down on Hudson street.

Haven’t been paying attention to the market lately but have prices really come down?

OPENHOUSEMASSACRE
Guest
OPENHOUSEMASSACRE
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Was assessed at 1,915,300 last year.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Another realtor lie.

Kim
Guest
Kim

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Palo-Alto-is-affordable-to-only-Joe-9135198.php#photo-7538085

Palo Alto affordable only to Joe Millionaire.
Note the use of “median” home price of 2.5 million (USD), whereas we like to pump up our home prices by the use of “average” prices.
Of course to the majority of people who are scared of math, it’s all the same.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Palo Alto has been expensive for awhile. But of course not like it is now. I wonder what the students do. Many are scholarship students or need based financial aid students.

patriotz
Member

Stanford, a private university, charges $45,729 a year in tuition. If students can candle this, accommodation is small change.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Stanford also gives a lot of scholarships. They have a huge endowment fund that just pops out dividends so they can fund their students. Unlike cheap ol UBC

Kim
Guest
Kim

China is printing lots of money.
Their yuan will soon become worthless.
sell everything.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/08/05/equity-sell-off-next-year-as-china-starts-printing-money-says-this-swiss-bank.html

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Agreed.
From a Sam Cooper Tweets a couple of weeks ago: Only someone with no understanding of finance would cite QE as vanre driver wout realizing China created so much money that investors are racing to get that Monopoly money out of China and into hard assets, before it loses half its value.

patriotz
Member

Those hard assets are being sold in hard currency, not China’s Monopoly money. It’s China’s exports that are putting hard currency into the hands of Chinese, not their own money printing.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Hopefully their currency becomes as worthless as their culture and people.

Zero Down Forty
Guest
Zero Down Forty

Like which nation hasn’t been creating money since the 2008 crisis? Money has lost it’s value the whole world wide.

Those holding money have lost out. Those holding assets have done well.

Where have you been, Rip Van Winkle?

patriotz
Member

You mean those selling assets. Remember bubbles reward sellers at the expense of buyers, not owners at the expense of non-owners.

paulb
Member

New
149
Sold
114
TI:9424

http://www.paulboenisch.com

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Thanks Paul.

Is there anyway of knowing the Detached/Attached/Apartment breakdown?

Number of $3 million + properties sold??

If less detached selling then the trickle down effect in the valley will be greatly reduced.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Leave the man alone for god’s sakes.

He gives enough already.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

When will the 15% foreign ownership tax start impacting the stats then?

yvr2zrh
Member

Agree – He is not here to be the place for us to make database input queries . . He drops a simple stat every day – the same way – and leaves it at that . . . Be glad we are sub-120 per day – That’s a key level. The market will start to have serious issues when we are sub-100.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

I’m beginning to think that this next lull in prices will be the last good time to buy in the lower mainland. Trudeau and MCCallum just said they were going to increase the number of Chinese ten year visas and abolish the visa system for Mexicans.

Last year = 400,000

2016, 2017, 2018 total = 1.5 million??

This is going to out tremendous pressure on rents. And then the Libs will say they have to give PR to all these people.

I’m surprised the local Caucasians aren’t fighting this. Your way of life here in metro Vancouver will abruptly be over within a decade.

Wait until us Asians have a voting majority. Then you will see how birds of a feather flock together

Kim
Guest
Kim

Caucasians are too blinded by the love for Trudeau to care.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Caucasians still enjoy RE price growth and live illusion of being well to do (loaded) with a little help of “some accidental foreigners” who happened to be all Chinese who made and brought money we all know how. Give it time until “those foreigners” start to exercise the power of ownership of everything and become “sensitive” on their ROI. At that point life becomes hairy.