Developers upset over surprise foreign buyer tax

Real Estate Developers are upset about the foreign buyer tax, arguing that the only real way to make homes more affordable is to increase supply.

Also it would be great if we could increase real estate affordability without lowering the price of anyones real estate.

A month before the tax was announced, Anne McMullin, president and CEO of UDI, e-mailed the Premier warning that any taxes aimed at curbing demand would not make Metro Vancouver more affordable without the stimulation of more supply. And, she added, increasing taxes might severely undermine the value of people’s homes “perhaps even destabilizing our industry, which represents 25 per cent of British Columbia’s economy,” she wrote.

Some experts point out that the foreign buyer market was already showing signs of ‘fatigue’ so the tax was completely unnecessary.

Experts cannot say whether this downturn in foreign owners will remain a long-term trend, but immediately after the Premier announced the tax on the morning of July 25, industry insiders were warning it could badly hurt one of the province’s most important economic drivers.

Read the full article in the Globe and Mail.

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Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I’m always in favor of more supply. Build baby, build!

patriotz
Member

What they mean by “stimulation of more supply” is lower developer fees.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

There is no such thing as a proposed solution that does not benefit the proponent.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

I disagree. Some people make proposals about matters of public interest because they think therein lies a solution to some complex of problems that might have very little to do with them personally. They have a kind of engineer’s mind approach to it. There are people who sometimes do things because they are the right thing to do and not because they will gain some benefit. There are people who register concern about wrongdoing without themselves feeling personally harmed by what has happened. This might be hard to imagine for some people who have never experienced that kind of motivation personally. But it does, really, exist.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I’m not so sure. There is always a benefit, even if it is only the benefit of living in a better society and knowing that you have contributed to it. You mention a motivation. That is a synonym for benefit. In the case of business associations like these developers, the benefits are likely to be of a more material nature.

space889
Member
space889

You don’t think there is a problem when in US, you can get a nice well build 2000 sq ft house with land for under $300K in many places, while in Vancouver the cost of building a 500 sq ft laneway house is close to $200K???

You might not like developers making lots of money, but it doesn’t mean they don’t have a valid point that developer fees might be too high, or there is too much “green”, “accessibility”, etc expensive cost inefficient useless requirements piled onto builders and consumers, just so some city politicians can feel like they are doing something grand like reversing global warming / making Vancouver greeniest city ever.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Hard to say without seeing some kind of breakdown. My first guess would be that developers charge a lot because people are willing to pay a lot. Structure cost/land cost must be pretty small in Vancouver, and that must relieve downward pressure on structure cost from buyers.

patriotz
Member

That’s basically it. Laneway houses are boutique accommodation and are going to have a high cost/square foot due to both lack of economies of scale and the finishings for the target market.

Under $500K gets you over 2500 square feet in Ottawa, and I can tell you it has development fees and lots of bureaucracy.

http://mattamyhomes.com/ottawa/communities/barrhaven-half-moon-bay/plans/parkside.aspx

space889
Member
space889
$200/sq ft build cost in Vancouver gets you barely average finish on a standard 2000 sq ft home. If you are in the industry or has some know how, you can probably drive it down to $150/sq ft. That’s still $300K to $400K in construction cost. I’m sure there are development fees and other costs in US too. However, Vancouver seem to like gouge as well as adding many unnecessary & expensive requirements in the name of green / sustainability / accessibility / etc that adds absolutely no value and no benefits to 90% of homeowners. You can say reducing cost will simply increase developer profits so city shouldn’t do it. But I would argue that high cost and inefficient bureaucracy contribute a hefty chunk to the high housing costs here, even if people get the city to loosen the… Read more »
Dave
Member
You can’t get it that low for a house now. Maybe 8 years ago. Established developers building volume are just doing $150 with low end materials/finishing and that doesn’t include other costs of development, which are significant. Bureaucracy is a big problem with development. It’s never taken longer to get approvals and sitting on your money rather than turning it over has a huge impact on affordability, never-mind all the BS the City wants you to do. The City also punishes density with their ‘bonus density’ taxation scheme. It’s not worth a developers time to push for more density. Developers also care less about taxes and bureaucracy than people here might think. The current system is a huge barrier to entry for competition. It also keeps new supply low. So if you have the capital to wait out a development,… Read more »
space889
Member
space889

A rare useful and informative post on this blog.

oh la la
Guest
oh la la

I thought multiple offer days are over…. “West-side houses continue to sell for big money. A house at 4620 Langara, on a 65-by-110-foot lot, was recently listed for $6.388-million. It got 13 offers and sold for $8.8-million, after four days on the market. Another house at 2495 W. 6th Ave. sold for $4.73-million after 31 days on the market, $50,000 below asking.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/vancouver/east-side-vancouver-homes-surging-in-value/article33287877/

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

That is a placed puff-piece. I know it seems counter-intuitive, but 6.388 might have been well below market. It may have been priced low to draw interest.

oh la la
Guest
oh la la

Looks like that Newcomer. Their strategy worked well for them…

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwMDBDUw==

oh la la
Guest
oh la la

Ok. here is one comparable, sold at $8.5Mil end of last March.
https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/Property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwMDAxUQ==

Same picture around my area. – being sold at last March/April prices.

space889
Member
space889

Could also be one of the few nicer view lots left in the city? Didn’t Chip Wilson merge like 4 lots in that area to build his mega mansion? People may simply want to grab what’s left now, instead of having to pay even more later on.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

real new year is just a month and a half away.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

cock-a-doodle-doo…!

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Foreign money brought in by Permanent residents continues to flow in. They can’t place in bak because CRA will catch them.

Foreign students becoming PR at ever faster rate as changes to express entry have taken effect. Expect about 1000 millionaire students a week gaining PR and then buying homes.

Britain reducing foreign student numbers to 175K. We going up to 500K a country half their size.

Here’s the real kicker. We have a easy path to PR for students. They don’t. Scam by RE industry

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

So why is population growth at historic lows?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Cause they don’t count the probably now 400,000 foreign students here, the 80,000 Supervisa parents, the 400,000 parents of foreign students on 10 year visitor visas, the people who overstayed their visas, and then the general people on 10 year visitor visas who can stay up to 2 years at a time and work under the table.

These are not counted in population growth even though they live here.

You Newcomer are a troll trying to confuse others.

patriotz
Member

“400,000 foreign students here, etc.”

“Here” being Metro Vancouver? Give me a break.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer
Why do you so often mention your opinion that I am a troll? Aside from the fact that “troll” does not mean what you are thinking of (for example, the goal of trolls is never to confuse people), why would you debate me if I were a troll? Moving on, you are wrong. Again. Population surveys count everyone, regardless of how or why they got here. They even go and count homeless people living under bridges. You claim that there are a million uncounted people here. That’s half the population of the region. Can’t you see how chaos would ensue if population estimates were out by 50%? I understand that you suffer from an idee fixe, but you are not entirely lacking in common sense. So you must see that your claim is silly. That being the case, you can… Read more »
MarKoz
Member
I posted this last session. Failed to notice it was “Special to the Globe & Mail”. Most of the articles with that tag line seem to have pro-RE focuses (if they are about RE). I have asked G&M for an explanation of how they define “Special to the Globe & Mail”. No response so far. I thought the most insightful comment was: “I have Chinese clients with permanent resident cards, and their kids go to school here, their money is from China, and that’s where they generate their income. They don’t want to live there because pollution is off the scales. But they can’t make the money here that they make in China. And they’re not paying the 15 per cent tax because they’re permanent residents.” Everyone is so freaked by foreign buyers. It is foreign capital that we should… Read more »
yvr2zrh
Member

Firstly – If all the builders lose 50% on their land investments – – then too bad. . . . Secondly – if people lose on their own properties – also too bad. . . This UDI needs to get with the -program and realize they should be making money on construction profits and not the profits on land re-zoning and other land price increase speculation. I believe that if half of the industry – or more – were to go bankrupt because of adjustments from losing the foreign investor – then too F—ing bad. . . . This should be a game about proper real estate gains and not those gains that come from land re-zoning or other appreciation.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Totally agree.

What needs to be done is a new grassroots party for the people. The other establishments have been infiltrated. Note NDP Horgan not attacking anything. Recipe for losing.

patriotz
Member

You want someone else to set up “a new grassroots party for the people”. Your irony detector needs checking.

dan
Guest
dan

Thats because Horgan owns (or did own), 8 houses!
Dan

space889
Member
space889
Uhm…mostly it’s the homeowner who gains from land rezoning as developers have to pay more for the rezoned land. But I do agree with your sentiment. If bear loses out because they are too boneheaded and too stubborn to they are wrong then it’s too bad. They only got themselves to blame. If the bears get kicked out of their rentals because the owner are panicky selling or the rental buildings are demolish for redevelopment, that’s also just too bad. Their own fault for not buying earlier. And if they lose their job right after they bought their bargain basement property from a butt hurt homeowner moron? Well, I guess that just serves them right. But then, every bear has a 6/7 figure investment portfolio and ironclad job security – feeding at gov’t trough, or have some rare in demand… Read more »
Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

You seem regularly threatened by the prospect of some of the posters here being in good financial shape, as if you really need it to be true that the the only people challenging this (policy-engineered) affordability crisis are “poor, bitter basement dwellers”.

space889
Member
space889

No, I just have issues with people thinking it’s ok for some portion of society to suffer huge, potentially non-recoverable, financial ruins, just so they can feel good or exact revenge or justified about their decisions / predictions.

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

Riiiiight. That’s why you are always sarcastic or dismissive about what people describe as their personal financial status.

patriotz
Member

” Secondly – if people lose on their own properties – also too bad. . . ”

People don’t lose their own properties because of falling prices. They lose them because they can’t afford the purchase price.

The difference is, if they can’t afford the purchase price and prices have gone up or stayed flat, they can sell rather than be foreclosed.

squeak
Member
squeak


immediately after the Premier announced the tax on the morning of July 25, industry insiders were warning it could badly hurt one of the province’s most important economic drivers.”

If flipping houses/condos, money laundering is the most important economic driver of BC then we really need some new sober people in the leadership. Swapping and laundering is not an economy.

Yunak
Member
Yunak

Depending on the targeted audience? It seems that we have some around interested, hence we should be hospitable…

space889
Member
space889

Swapping house & condo is not an economy. But swapping raw resource for finished goods, or services for fiat dollars, are a valid economy? What’s the diff? You are swapping one stuff for another, but one is good and ok, but another is not?

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

it IS largely a ponzi based economy with all the rats and other vermin taking their piece of the pie as all the 1’s and 0’s disappear from one poor guys wallet, pass through the system and land in the laps of a select few who have an uncanny ability to always be in the right place at the right time

patriotz
Member

” What’s the diff? ”

The diff is that the second does not require households to take on historically high and growing debt. The second also does not require that the less fortunate be unable to find decent accommodation.

space889
Member
space889

Isn’t consumer debt – ie. non-mortgage debt also at an all time high?

Also, you could always just save up enough $$ to buy a house for cash outright, without borrowing too. Nothing prevents you from doing that. In fact, people still do that in many parts of the world.

patriotz
Member

” Nothing prevents you from doing that. ”

What prevents you from doing that is you are competing with buyers who are able to borrow 9x their income. Duh.

If nobody was able to borrow to buy, yes you could save enough to buy because everyone would have to.

space889
Member
space889

So people are holding a gun to your head to borrow huge mortgage debt? If no one has to buy, I don’t see why anyone who wants to buy must borrow their brains out to buy either.

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

“Isn’t consumer debt – ie. non-mortgage debt also at an all time high?”

Something like 75% of current household debt is mortgage debt. I don’t love that other debt is at record highs, but it’s probably worth looking at what is by far the biggest problem first.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Consumer debt is high for the same reason mortgage debt is high. If house prices weren’t artificially inflated they would not be getting approved for the consumer credit, and if mortgage payments weren’t so high, they would not need it.

space889
Member
space889

Except that monthly housing service cost, on aggregate, hasn’t increased in any meaningful way as a % of income / take home pay for the last 2 decades plus. So your argument doesn’t hold water.

If people on aggregate are spend more of their income on mortgage without cutting back on other areas then your argument would work. Except that’s not what’s happening. Mortgage service cost are about the same as 2 decades ago.

People are simply spending more $$$ to buy more stuff / more experiences like vacations. That sounds a lot of like bear argument about housing being a Ponzi scheme – people spending money they don’t have on stuff that don’t generate income or guaranteed capital gain.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Are you honestly saying that you can’t see the problem in paying down a smaller and smaller proportion of your debt each month?

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

…or the difference in operating in a manner dependent on interest rates that were originally described as having been set at “emergency” lows?

patriotz
Member

“Something like 75% of current household debt is mortgage debt.”

That figure is the average for all households including renters, who don’t have mortgages. So the average for homeowners must be higher.

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

Good point.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

One is premised on increasing productivity (we compete to make more or better products and services with less materials and labor) and the other is based on decreasing productivity (we compete to spend more and more money for the same object). Which do you imagine has a brighter future?

space889
Member
space889

You can build houses & condo with less labour, better quality materials, and more efficiency as well.

And how is digging stuff out of the ground, or creating some Internet social media or mobile game stuff so people can waste time & money on it really that much better? I don’t really see my quality of life going up because there are 100+ social media / mobile game companies, or another mega mall of clothing stores.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You can build more efficiently, but we don’t. If we were producing better housing at lower costs, we would not have a problem. The problem is that we produce the same or worse housing for higher costs.

Economic activities with decreasing efficiency reduce wealth and are unsustainable, which is one of the reasons why no communist economy has ever succeeded in the long term.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

I can’t believe how much patience you people have, taking the time over and over to keep explaining the simplest of concepts to someone so challenged on so many levels.

You must be special Ed teachers, and if not you should be.

Kudos to you.

space889
Member
space889

Maybe you should give these people an apple or a box of chocolates to show your appreciation and the efforts they spend on you.

space889
Member
space889

Communist economy don’t succeed because most people are basically selfish. The majority of people aren’t altruists who work for greater good without expectation of reward.

MarKoz
Member

One of the Realtors etc. said we should not interfere because RE is 25% of GDP. I said, in a prior post, that we have painted ourselves into a corner where we rely on building and selling nice homes to foreign capital and building and selling tiny, crappy shoeboxes to locals.

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

Yeah, my response would be: “We should intervene now before it gets to 30% of GDP or more.”

history
Guest
history

certainly more affordable homes are coming. Contract them to Chinese builders. They can get material from China, and use building techniques at half the cost. I heard it can be done by a poster at this forum. Anyone wonder like me, that this is the defacto reason Vcr land is priced the way it is? ie, massive exploitation of cheap, plentiful Chinese labour?

regards, Karl ‘history’ Marx

space889
Member
space889

Yes, it’s called shipping containers.

Funky monkey
Guest
Funky monkey

You guys are rich! I grew up on the island I know where our trees are going (china) to be turned into plywood etc.
They make drywall in China.
I know a contractor who doesn’t use it.
Building materials make up a fraction of what a new home build costs.

patriotz
Member

“They make drywall in China”

It’s so infamous that it has its own Wiki page. I don’t know whether or not it’s banned in Canada, but I don’t think a builder with any sense would use it and expose himself to lawsuits, given that local drywall is such a small component of construction costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_drywall

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

probably costs as much to ship as it does to manufacture…completely pointless

YVR
Guest
YVR
“They can get material from China, and use building techniques at half the cost.” Anyone can get materials from China. You do not have to be Chinese. Any building supply place will sell you junk from China. The bulk of costs and materials in a building a house are from Canada. Land, wood, concrete, labour, development fees all are Canadian and cannot be imported from China. Even most cabinets, doors and windows all come from Canada because it is not economical to ship. Building techniques are dictated by BC building code. Every developer tries to build at the lowest cost. I doubt people from China have figured out how to build more efficiently at a lower cost in Canada. The only real variable is labour cost. With trades labour you get what you pay for. Lower paid trades will make… Read more »
space889
Member
space889

Labour skills do not necessarily correlate with labour price. Though it should but with trade unions and lack of trade people in general, I doubt it will correlate too much under a certain price point.

There are lots of cost efficiencies that can be wrung out of construction, if companies make the necessary capital & tech investments, and the city stop with its stupid green SJ crusade. At certain point, the higher cost of being “green” or whatever far outweighs any incremental benefit and end user cost savings.

patriotz
Member

” Though it should but with trade unions ”

SFH and low rise residential construction are entirely non-union. Unions used to dominate hi-rises but have lost much ground. So you can take that whipping boy out of the argument.

space889
Member
space889

You can’t become a plumber, electricians, etc without belong to the trade union or get certified without being part of the trade union.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Average Surrey household will pay $137 more in taxes
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/average-surrey-household-will-pay-137-more-in-taxes

>>> which is almost a 7.5% increase when all is said and done…

>>> should increases continue at this pace, taxes will double in less than 10 yrs. even at a more modest rate of 5% you are looking at two times the fun in approx 14 yrs

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

They’ll just increase suite rental rates. And no CRA doesn’t give a damn if these amateur landlords don’t report income.

space889
Member
space889

Property tax rates have been going up far quicker than other taxes and cities are getting away with it. Way way too much inefficiencies and waste at municipal level, and too many politicians trying to be world saviors with their pet projects like our CoV incumbent mayor.

Yunak
Member
Yunak

Some predictions for 2017 but nothing on Vancouver RE?

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/pessimists-guide-to-2017/

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

What for? Most Americans have probably never heard of Vancouver and could care less even if they did.

Yunak
Member
Yunak

Of course, it was joke, sarcasm, whatever…

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

Ah so, Cholley.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Vancouver approves property tax increase for opioid crisis response
http://www.news1130.com/2016/12/13/vancouver-approves-property-tax-increase-pay-opioid-crisis-response/

>>> it certainly is amazing how quickly these folks can whistle stuff through when there is the political will to do so and to a lesser extent, when the average person out there is probably preoccupied with other things. keeping this in mind, the liberals will surely attempt to pull a fast one (or two) in the last week of Dec when absolutely no one is paying attention

Yunak
Member
Yunak

It’s just a courtesy revenge for the 15% foreign tax

“‘Truly terrifying’: Chinese suppliers flood US and Canada with deadly fentanyl”

https://www.statnews.com/2016/04/05/fentanyl-traced-to-china/

space889
Member
space889

If only the Chinese hasn’t learn from the British so well….

but wait, I thought you guys wanted the Chinese to learn from the high cultured British and have some class and real economy and stop exporting low quality crap? Now, it’s exporting some high quality stuff and you are still complaining?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

It amazes me to think that someone out there who wrote this thing signed by “space889” thinks he made a biting comment, something hard hitting and clever, something that would really enlighten his audience, teach them something, make a point.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Fucker still doesn’t understand that 19th century behaviour is not practised in the 21st century by humans.

Animals, that’s a different story.

space889
Member
space889

Is your vulgarism part of the traditional folklore or you were badly treated during the childhood? Either way, you should look for help.

Dan
Guest

FU u slant eyed prick.

space889
Member
space889

Is your vulgarism part of the traditional folklore or you were badly treated during the childhood? Either way, you should look for help.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Posted a reply to Newcomer below. Why is this guy so against people reporting how many people are coming to Canada?

Cause they don’t count the probably now 400,000 foreign students here, the 80,000 Supervisa parents, the 400,000 parents of foreign students on 10 year visitor visas, the people who overstayed their visas, and then the general people on 10 year visitor visas who can stay up to 2 years at a time and work under the table.

These are not counted in population growth even though they live here.

You Newcomer are a troll trying to confuse others.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

You call other posters here “trolls” yet you troll and over post more than anyone. Your message never changes and you say the same thing over and over again. I guess the best defense is a good offense, eh?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Why the fuck would it change? The truth never changes. Wake up if you’re not a troll.

Some here keep posting links and you they never get tired of posting the same BS? Post facts that effect change. Posting worthless articles or propaganda without context is worth nothing.

And what do you think about Trump?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You know, you might like Reddit. With the exception of a few people, this site is mostly a post-links-and-talk-about-them kind of site (I think that’s what you think of as trolling) but some other sites like Reddit have lot of people who like to talk about how awful immigrants are and what they think of Donald Trump. Why not spend a few weeks there and see if you like it?

space889
Member
space889

Actually Reddit have more info content than this blog. This blog is just slightly above sewage level now. Used to be good, but not anymore thanks to some dedicated bears.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Oh, sorry, Space. It must be kind of hard for you, after all the high-quality, well-researched contributions you have made to this blog. I know that you have always tried to set a certain tone here, and not everyone has been at your level.

space889
Member
space889

I know, I know, but I’m trying really hard to catch up….masters like BPOM, Yunak, Combat Roach had years to perfect their art. I’m just a slow newbie Chinese moron trying hardest to learn some good old fashioned Canadian value and English. Please be patient with me.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Space, why should anyone be patient with someone such as yourself who only wants things to go downhill for people who live here in Vancouver and who says millennials and other vancouverites are entitled and spoiled and that women are to be disrespected and who takes every opportunity to putdown local culture and carry on a culture war?

space889
Member
space889

Uhmmm..that’s mostly you bears, not normal people like me.

So you believe people have an inherent right to live somewhere simply because they were born and raised there? Even if they didn’t work hard or successful, the fact that they were born & raise in Van West, it means they deserve to live in a SFH in Van West? And gov’t should guarantee that?

Young people have been leaving Van for decades. Remember the brain drain problem back in 90s when houses were like what 20% of current day price? Well, don’t let facts get in the way of your argument and sense of injustice.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

so either those dedicated bears have succeeded in distracting you 24/7 or you enjoy sticking your face in a pile of your own feces

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

“This blog is just slightly above sewage level now. Used to be good, but not anymore…”

Says the guy responsible for about 20% of the post content on this site from the last few years.

With days to go to the end of 2016, I think we have a winner for most ironic post of the year.

space889
Member
space889

Says one of the monkeys who keeps fling their poop at this blog and expect others to love it.

Royce McCutcheon
Member
Royce McCutcheon

I note the fact that you are (by far?) the highest volume poster here, and thus the largest contributor to a site you’re saying has trash commentary.

Your response is to call me a poop flinging monkey.

And still you would deny that you’re the biggest problem and, again, offer up an argument about how someone else started it (i.e. two wrongs make a right).

Cool.

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

Dumbass, no one said immigrants are awful. The numbers are out of control.

By the way, were you a Hillary and CNN pumper who blames everyone for being racist?

space889
Member
space889

Really? So what’s BPOM and Co always bitching about? If not immigrants?

That job belongs to team BPOM.

paulb
Member

New
80
Price Change
22
Sold
132
TI:8172

http://www.paulboenisch.com

I\'m With Stupid
Guest
I\'m With Stupid

Look at those sales… Anyone have historical numbers this time of year?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

But nope. Most here still want to close their eyes to the foreign money still flowing in via permanent residents. They can’t put it in Banks.

Otherwise, if there’s uncertainty in real estate in the short term, why would anyone buy?

Trust me, they’re not stupid. Plus with the ne mortgage rules, you’d have to have an income over $100K to get a half decent townhome with a huge downpaynent.

Foreign money inflows continue.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dYtxpv5aEMF-Ccyyb8sKmtHI4nQL8rqP4vEVxMx4VUc/edit#gid=0

The numbers aren’t unusual, other than the listings being a bit low.

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

Other than “listings being low”

Are you fucking kidding me? What do you think low inventory does to prices ??

oh la la
Guest
oh la la

thanks Paul. Here comes 7Ks next week. Jan is 6Ks. hmmm.

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

With this snow. Definetely a 6K party coming.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

“Liu says her office will launch a series of campaigns and media events next year to promote Chinese and Chinese-Canadian contributions to B.C.

“Housing is a temporary phenomenon,” she said. “It should not overshadow the long-term potential — some of it already realized — in B.C. Without the existing trade relationship, the unemployment rate here would undoubtedly be higher.”

Is this POS still around? She keeps scolding Canadians on every crap and those in charge let the garbage to stick here, unbelievable.

space889
Member
space889

So when Canada does the same thing to China, it’s all good and righteous. But when the shoe is on the other foot, and you are on the receiving end, it’s suddenly all POS, garbage, what right does China have to criticize us? The saintly holy moral righteous nation?

Ever heard of the phrase don’t dish it out if you can’t take it? Or, tic for tac?

Actually, she isn’t even really criticizing Canada yet, rather launching campaigns to point out some positives and the long view. If you get this worked up about it already, man, I can’t wait to see you exploded when China does what Canada been doing for the last 20 years.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Huh? I thought that Canadians can’t own property in China.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

I thought the saying was “tit for tat”.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

“tit for tat” evolved from “tip for tap”, meaning to hit back. “Tit” was a word for “jerk “or “pull”, and once “tip” turned into “tit” so did “tap” turn into “tat”., probably because of the alliteration. Maybe with new English speakers entering the culture at a time when consumer advertising is so influential and commercialism so dominant in everyone’s experience, the word will evolve into “tic for tac” since after all that phrase is familiar as the name of a consumer good. In fact, I think I’ve just discovered a whole new field of inquiry in historical linguistics.

space889
Member
space889

Oh look Patriotz, you got a new student! Teach him your nitpicking skills well!

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

“We have to tell people about the realities of the Canada-China relationship,” Liu said. “… those people who object [to too much foreign owned residential housing] will change their views if they see that.”

Sounds sort of ominous to me.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

It is ominous.

That hideous troll is going to unleash the next, more powerful version of fentanyl on us if we don’t play ball.

space889
Member
space889

Like the new and improve asbestos Canada is exporting?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Space, you’ve got to concede some points sometimes if you are to be taken to be someone who wants to engage in useful discussion and who respects his interlocutors. Otherwise the conclusion can only be that you want to disrupt and manipulate. I still hold out hope for you. But I have never ever seen you concede a point to anyone. Can you prove me wrong about this?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

In other words, Space, can you agree:
(1)Fentanyl overdoses are a bad thing
(2) We don’t want fentanyl to destroy lives and destroy communities in our region
(3) The fentanyl happens to be coming from China

Sol
Guest
Sol

The local locust in charge is doing what she can to protect the rest of the brood

space889
Member
space889

Right…instead of like the 70% of homeowners in this country, buy a home and get on with their life. You would blame everyone else but yourself for your current predicament. If only it would rain money on your head and have everything handed to you on a platter, while those dirty Chinese do those menial disgusting jobs you wouldn’t do for minimal wage and make you rich.

Sol
Guest
Sol

Nice comeback.. is English your second language?

MarKoz
Member

Remember this article?

She suggested a number of possible measures Vancouver could take to make housing more affordable, including the introduction of quotas to increase the number of affordable housing units within new buildings, greater oversight of real estate developers from the city and a tax or fee for overseas investors who want to buy luxury properties in the West Coast city.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/the-market/chinese-envoy-says-lack-of-oversight-behind-vancouvers-house-price-crisis/article25085285/

space889
Member
space889

Sounds reasonable. So why doesn’t city increase supply or even ensure minimal supply if developer wants to density? Cuz, that’s not what the developers want, not what local homeowners and residents want. Try to density any low density neighborhood and see what kind of reception you get.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

“Housing is a temporary phenomenon,” she said. “It should not overshadow the long-term potential — some of it already realized — in B.C. Without the existing trade relationship, the unemployment rate here would undoubtedly be higher.”

And house prices would undoubtedly be lower.

Funky monkey
Guest
Funky monkey

I have a question. There is a house on Ontario st , there is a for sale sign but not on mls why?

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

Juwai.

Foreign transaction wanted.

Fear monger
Guest
Fear monger

Boring Patriotz is back.
Where is BPOM?

space889
Member
space889

Maybe he and Combat Roach finally took my advice, got together in their basement rental, and too busy to come out since. 8 years celibacy can be hard on high testo / violence prone guys like those two.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

and you speak from experience I presume?

space889
Member
space889

Just an educated guess…but I’m sure BPOM don’t mind posting some proof here.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

There’s that high tone we all respect Space for.

space889
Member
space889

BPOM set a good example for me to learn from. I’m so happy that I’m getting the Canadian values now.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

And if BPOM jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?

Well then, young man, perhaps you ought to go sit at your desk and think about taking personal responsibility for your actions, while the others are our playing with Ms. Yellen’s new rate increases.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Space, if you hate Canada so much why do you care about what is going on in the local housing market and more importantly, why do you spend your time on this blog attacking people? You have been rightly bashed (in words) for your spinning. Most often you fail to offer alternate perspectives on the causal factors behind the current housing market, but instead spend your time simply denying that people who live in a place legitimately have some say over what happens to it.

space889
Member
space889

Part of Oracle’s wet dream coming true? Easier path for TFW to become PRs – effective immediately!

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1168949&tp=1

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

Trudeau is worse than Harper. They are flooding Canada so even if there is a backlash, we couldn’t to anything about it.

Watch rents. I know people will attack me for saying this but just watch.

Confucius
Guest
Confucius

No Trollacle. We don’t attack you for saying it. We attack you for saying it over and over and over and over.

Foo Man
Guest
Foo Man

Is repetition grounds for attack? How about repetition of phantom real estate crash unfolding before our eyes with accompanying detail re popcorn preparation for that last ten fucking years?

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

If it’s done 20 times per day by the same person it’s fucking pathetic.

space889
Member
space889

Will a municipal level income tax rate / sale tax be in the near future? Mayors just can’t get enough $$$ to pay for all the wonderful projects they have in mind…

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2016/12/13/vancouver-and-canadian-mayors-ask-feds-for-fiscal-power.html

patriotz
Member

“Will a municipal level income tax rate / sale tax be in the near future?”

Short answer is no. Provincial governments will not give municipalities power to levy income tax. As for sales tax, not too far back there was a referendum to set up a regional sales tax to pay for Translink. Remember how that went?

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Which makes me wonder why we didn’t get to vote on the recent chinaman tax.

It should have been a 2 part referendum.

Do you support the tax?

How much do you want it to be?

patriotz
Member

“wonder why we didn’t get to vote”

Because everything Christy does is calculated for maximum political benefit for her.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Newest Teranet stats show Toronto still smoking and Vancouver still crashing.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“Newest Teranet stats show Toronto still smoking and Vancouver still crashing.”

Perfect. More tightening coming in 2017 to slow Toronto down while Vancouver crashes and burns. Next move is 10% minimum downpayment for all mortgages. Plus the already committed share the risk plan.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

If I were JT, I’d go for share the risk. It’s more powerful than raising downpayments and let’s the banks be the bad guys.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

any idiot can do the math and conclude this is all about the 15% tax and that foreign buyers were indeed the driving force behind skyrocketing RE values in vanc.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Any idiot can figure out there are several things that are and will cause the market to crash:

1. The market had peaked and was declining on its own weight before the foreign buyers tax.
2. The foreign buyers tax not only took out 95% of foreign buyers but also took out and equal amount of speculators who planned on flipping to a foreign buyer.
3. The most recent CMHC changes have only just begun to have an impact. The impact will come in Spring.
4. Mortgage rates are rising and will have a slow downward grind on the market.
5. The share the risk plan is coming and will increase rates and qualification criteria further.
6. If Toronto keeps going up expect more measures to slow the market.

Foo Man
Guest
Foo Man

Uh oh! Idiots seem to be conflicting. Was it the 15% tax or not? Perhaps we should bring more idiots in to the discussion. Although YVR is evidently most qualified.

YVR
Guest
YVR

The 15% locust tax was cleary a factor. Just not the only factor. I would think a locust could figure that out.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

HAM definitely the biggest factor. how else can you explain activity post tax announcement in all these other cities?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Do you mean the anecdotal claims of activity the real estate agents in all those other cities? I’ve yet to see any data.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

lol..every other msm article about RE has been spelling it out. if not HAM explain what caused the sudden surge in prices in toronto or even victoria for instance? esp in the weeks following rollout of foreign tax. HAM is just draining out of one bucket and pouring into another that is tax exempt.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Again, do you have any data to support your claims of increases? (I’m guessing you understand the difference between a newspaper article and data.)

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Those places were already surging. Nice try.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Really. You got that? As Shut It Down says, the pick up was all pre tax. In fact, there was a drop post tax (though mostly seasonal). I mean, those are well-know numbers. I’m really surprised a guy like you would have not known them. Go read the archives at Househuntvictoria or just ask the folks there to point you to the data. They’ve got lots.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Careful, you’re starting to sound like Garth. Apart from the racism.

space889
Member
space889

An idiot will also recognize that when you have been wrong again and again and again for a decade, maybe it’s better to keep your mouth shut and wait how it plays out rather than sticking your neck out.

oh wait, that would require some intelligence and humility. Never mind, carry on.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Christy Clark is third most popular premier: poll
http://www.cheknews.ca/christy-clark-is-third-most-popular-premier-poll-243781/

>>> some paid MSM suggesting she made big strides…LOL. a further look shows her rating didnt change much in the last quarter while most other premiers actually saw their ratings fall

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Canada’s Gravity-Defying Household Debt Swells to C$2 Trillion”, Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-14/canada-household-debt-ratio-hits-record-with-c-2-trillion-tab

“The numbers will intensify concern among policy makers the economy has become over-reliant on bank borrowing, and is vulnerable to a housing downturn and rising interest rates. “

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

“Some other measures suggest consumers can afford to pay all the debt back. Household debt as a share of net worth remained at 20 percent in the third quarter, and debt-service payments were little changed at 14 percent of disposable income.”

Why do people make this mistake every time around? These are being cited as reasons not to worry about a housing correction or interest rate hikes, but these two things are caused by high house prices and low interest rates. They are an artifact of the variables that people are worried will change and therefore present no protection against the changes.

Donald T
Guest
Donald T

“Household debt as a share of net worth.” Whose net worth? are the directly ties to the family which the debt is originated? Are these assets (net worth) change in value, are the cost to service these debt changing?

Zimbabwe’s could have little changes in debt to disposable income.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Average household debt as a part of net worth is meaningless. What matters is the 10% or so with the highest ratio.

space889
Member
space889

Well at least that prediction has a better track record than the bears here.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Would be equivalent to U.S household debt cracking $20 Trillion!

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

thanks to our low dollar policy, for vancouver, real estate is no longer the only game in town.

Polozi Scheme
Guest
Polozi Scheme
patriotz
Member

“We could place an outright ban on the purchase of property by foreign non-residents, as Australia and Norway have done”

And already they’ve got it wrong at “solution” #2. Oz doesn’t ban foreign ownership at all, but directs ownership in ways that are ostensibly to increase supply but really serve to make more money for developers. They have a worse bubble than Canada does.

The housing crisis has a simple cause – people buying RE to park money rather for shelter. The solution is to make this unattractive through tax and lending policy. And yes I mean for both locals and foreigners.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

The National Bank of Canada estimates that Chinese buyers may have spent up to CAD$12 billion on Metro Vancouver property in 2015, accounting for a third of all sales. Consequently, prices have been rocketing, rising 32 percent this year up to June, with an average home costing CAD$1.4 million.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1023484.shtml
It’s China!

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

The National Bank of Canada is racist.

patriotz
Member

No, they are just pulling numbers out of the air (to put it politely). As previously pointed out in this forum, their “estimate” is based on an extrapolation of US data (seriously) without any reference to actual sales data in Metro Vancouver.

StrataHacker
Guest
StrataHacker

I call bull.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

exactly. the actual figure is probably double that at a very minimum

space889
Member
space889

well, let’s not get that inconvenient fact or actual facts get in the way of bears ranting about the yellow peril.

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/politics/canada-immigration-parents-grandparents-1.3895808

Setting the system open so they can open the floodgates after a year after the “outcry”. A lottery based system. They will get 90,000 applicants for 10,000 spots.

Next year they will say they need 90,000 spots. Watch.

We are going to 500,000 perm immigrants and millions of temporary ones. Do something Patriotz. Info is leaking.

Fact Check
Guest
Fact Check

Metro Van population growth rate falling:
81-91: +37%
91-01: +24%
01-11: +16%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Vancouver

Growth rate fall while price rise?
Obviously, pop growth has no effect on home prices.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Don’t you get it, it’s all secret. There are millions of Chinese and Indian students and grandparents, not to mention Mexican refugees, who are living sixteen people to a room and driving rents through the roof. Nobody notices because these immigrants are so smart, but this is the main reason why a one bedroom basement suite in Surrey rents for six thousand dollars a month.

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

You are either stupid or a troll with an agenda.

If my posts are off the mark, why not ignore them? Why go thru the trouble writing paragraphs??

And if it seems like my posts are against immigrants, why don’t you reply to BPOM posts that are explicit???

Truth hurts eh?!

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You are just kind of goofy. BPOM is more or less a psychopath. He really and truly hates people. There is no point in reasoning with him. You are just caught up in your idea, but I don’t think you bear anyone any ill will.

Oacle
Guest
Oacle

Yup. That’s what the traffic says.

And don’t worry, we won’t release the year over year growth of insured automobiles in metro Vancouver. We can justify the numbers by saying that population growth is low. It people are getting well paying jobs by the boatload. Oh wait, transit also at a record.

Don’t worry, we will figure something out for he sheep.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

Rates up and C$ down.

The 5 yr. Govt of Canada bond has gone from 0.70% a few months ago to 1.15% this am. A 50% move! This tells me that the market says rates are going up regardless of what the Bank of Canada says.

This cannot be good for Vancouver RE.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

it’s not good if you have to borrow funds or are currently servicing a whack load of debt. for those with stacks of monopoly money, gold bars and other valuables sitting in anonymously rented private vaults life is grand

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“U.S. Federal Reserve raises rates for first time in a year, citing strengthening U.S. economy”, Financial Post

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/u-s-federal-reserve-raises-rate-to-0-75

“In a statement, the Fed said job gains in recent months have been solid, while consumer spending has been rising moderately. The Fed therefore raised the upper bound of its trend-setting federal funds rate to 0.75 per cent, up from 0.5 per cent.”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Stocks dip, dollar and bond yields rise after Fed rate hike”, News 1130

http://www.news1130.com/2016/12/14/us-stocks-slip-ahead-of-federal-reserve-meeting-on-rates/

“Stocks fell Wednesday after the Federal Reserve raised interest rates on the back of a strengthening job market and surprised investors by increasing its forecast for rate hikes next year. The dollar and bond yields rose sharply.”

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
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