Friday Free-for-all! Merry Christmas!

It’s the end of another week as we wind down another year and that means it’s time for another Friday Free-for-all.

This is our regular end of the week news round up and open topic discussion thread for the weekend. Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:

grampa, what’s a rate hike?

BC vs the world

how the economy may combust

discounts

condos see another small down tick

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes in the comments below and have an excellent weekend! 

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southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Is the U.S. in the Midst of a Housing Bubble?”, Bloomberg video

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-12-27/is-the-u-s-in-the-midst-of-a-housing-bubble

“Bloomberg Intelligence’s Yelena Shulyatyeva discusses U.S. home prices and the impact of an increase in mortgage rates on housing demand. She speaks on “Bloomberg Markets.” “

patriotz
Member

Generally agree with the analyst, but she didn’t mention that the ownership rate nationally is lower than in 2005 (due in part to stricter lending standards), so fewer owners are likely to get into trouble going forward.

Just me
Guest
Just me

“Beijing desperate to stem tide of capital outflows”

http://asia.nikkei.com/Markets/Capital-Markets/Beijing-desperate-to-stem-tide-of-capital-outflow

“Yuan Turnover Soars in Sign of December Outflow Pressures”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-27/yuan-trading-volume-soars-in-sign-of-december-outflow-pressures

If outflows pick up again, we will see much fresh money flowing into Vancouver land and housing. More “land assembly” signs, more vacant lots held for speculation, more buying of apartments as safe deposit boxes.

Is it possible that we just sit and look at this shitshow without the power to do anything?

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

We have the power to do something we just don’t have the guts to do it. We all know what needs to be done.

patriotz
Member

The real problem is that a large proportion of the electorate thinks that continued high RE prices are in their interest. That is, it’s simply not wanting a solution, rather than lacking the “guts” to effect one.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

The ‘foreign investor’ voted business newsmaker of 2016
http://globalnews.ca/news/3148663/the-foreign-investor-voted-business-newsmaker-of-2016/

Just me
Guest
Just me

Lately, financial expansionism is being complemented by military muscle http://www.vancouversun.com/news/world/china+first+aircraft+carrier+five+warships+sail+into+disputed/12597080/story.html

China’s first aircraft carrier and five other warships passed by Taiwan and sailed into the contested South China Sea on Monday, Taiwan’s Defence Ministry said.

These guys think they own thw world.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach
Province Soila Kelava Chinese reciepie for screwing dumb and near sighted Canadians: 1- Immigrate to Canada (using the investor or any other program you can use to force your way in) 2- Share as little info with the gov as possible, and never by any means get in the system or get a job. 3- Funnel large sums of money from china under the radar to purchase your mansion, luxuy vehicles and at least 2 more properties downing at least 30% to keep the bank quiet. 4- Rent your properties cash only to avoid any tracking and paying any taxes to get additional cash influx. – or just flip them for profit. 5- declare low income status to get maximum benefits and be subsidised by the Canadian tax payer while continue funneling undeclared money from China. Canadians are left paying… Read more »
history
Guest
history

Dec 2016

As of Dec 24th

http://www.myrealtycheck.ca

Average Change: -3.78% Up:107 Down:677
Overall $ Change: -49,886,749.00 Average Change Amount:-63,631.06

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

Oh no, the end is here!

Just me
Guest
Just me

Bestplaceonearth, are you a Christy Clark supporter? Just curious.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

How did the Chinese people become so incredibly rich so quickly? How do they manage to smuggle all this cash out of their homeland? Where did the investment initially originate to build their vast factory gulags in “special economic zones”. Some historians have called this phenomenon “the greatest transfer of wealth in human history.”

http://www.theprovince.com/opinion/op-ed/opinion+vancouver+real+estate+market+only+impacted+chinese/12593152/story.html

patriotz
Member

As others have pointed out previously, the Chinese people aren’t “incredibly rich” at all. China’s a semi-developed economy on a par with Brazil. It’s just really big, so there are a lot of people who are rich and who are motivated to get their money out.

It got where it is so quickly because Mao had held it back, and it reverted to a garden variety corrupt 3rd world economy after he was gone. But other countries in the region with better governance have done much better, e.g. HK, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea.

Ulsterman
Member

As property prices have skyrocketed at home and as the yuan has steadily declined in value against the dollar, Chinese investors have been pouring their money into overseas property to safeguard their wealth in recent years. Overall Chinese investment in foreign commercial and residential real estate jumped from $5.6 billion in 2012 to $34.4 billion last year, according to a report by Knight Frank Research.

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20161215-chinese-retirees-could-fuel-the-next-overseas-property-boom

Just me
Guest
Just me

Yup. Perhaps house prices will not be high forever. But for the foreseeable future, there is no denying the size of this investments flows is staggering and can support a small market like ours for years to come.
Yes, many more years of madness. Unless we vote in a government that is serious about protecting our land base and housing from predatory investments from abroad.

One last thing: colonization was once done by violence and war. So far, China has shown how they can colonize entire regions by stealth and financial means. It might actually be cheaper this way: wars can be extremely expensive!

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

The problem is Canada or BC yet don’t have serious and mature political party to confront and eventually eliminate the shit coming from China by all means and at the all levels. Our clueless politicians do not understand what special conquering war is and how is it “peacefully” conducted until it isn’t and when it’s already late.

Just me
Guest
Just me
“China’s wealthy have long bought up properties around the world. Now, technology is opening the door for the small-timers. A new generation of smartphone apps and online lending platforms in China and around the world are helping small investors leap legal and language barriers to put their money to work globally. This informal lending network – which allows Chinese investors to fund overseas projects and buyers – largely bypasses banks and other traditional sources of funds, bringing money to places as varied as a sports center in Illinois and apartment blocks in Tennessee. But it also adds to the fire hose of money pouring into flush places like New York and the San Francisco area, where foreign investors are among the reasons property prices are high and rising.” http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20161226/new-technology-helps-even-less-wealthy-chinese-invest-in-us-real-estate Now, before the PC crowd and race-focused posters crucify me for… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

This is just investment/peer-to-peer lending. The investors do not gain any control of the properties they invest in. The punters (in the case Chinese) go for it because they are told it it is real estate, and believe that real estate is magical, but it could just as easily be stamps, or pop-music or magic goat milk. It’s concerning alright, but the losers here are people buying into the Ponzi scheme.

Just me
Guest
Just me
I strongly disagree. The additional cash accruing to the market (whether directly or through an intermediary with feet on the ground) mechanically raises the bar for everyone else trying to acquire access to the real estate in question. The distinction you fail to grasp is that the problem is the foreign cash not the foreign buyer. It is exactly the same distinction that will make Christy Clark’s measure completely toothless in the long run: if we fail to neutralize the cash flow directly into RE, it is irrelevant whether the person handling the investment is a citizen, PR or foreign entity. The cash from China will eventually manage to find a way to be deployed, pushing up valuations permanently. That is, unless we put in place measures that limit or eliminate the inflows of cash from China, but seriously going… Read more »
patriotz
Member

“unless we put in place measures that limit or eliminate the inflows of cash from China”

To stop cash coming into Canada from China, you would have to stop all exports to China and tourism from China. Think that’s going to happen? And anyway it could still come in from 3rd countries.

“but seriously going after vehicles/arrangements that allow it to be deployed.”

Right. Change the tax laws to make it unattractive to park wealth in RE. Just one hitch – to be airtight, it has to apply to everyone.

Just me
Guest
Just me

I agree it would require broad based messures. They would have to include locals, there is no other way.
I would vote for them immediately.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Nah. No price cannot be pushed up permanently by purchasing. Prices can be pulled up by a change in returns but, in RE, where the returns are based on rents, prices always return to the mean. There has never been an example to the contrary.

Just me
Guest
Just me
You have had too much wine over the holidays. I am not sure what permanent means, but prices have been unreasonably high in Vancouver for at least the past 12 years. This is a very long time. As far as I can tell, prices might stay high for the next 12 years. Even a 30% reduction would mean that you have to pay 1.2 millions for a house in Renfrew. If you think that is cheap, then we are not talking the same language. The solution going forward is to restrict the flow of money finding its way into Vancouver RE. Incidentally, i always find it amazing when people keep denying (i) the fact that prices can remain high for long periods of time, often decades; (ii) the role played by external sources of money, not just local incomes and… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

To me, permanent means a lot more than 12 years. Unless real incomes at least double, we will definitely see real prices fall by at least 50%. A more reasonable expectation is a fall by 66% if incomes do not triple. Most of the real price adjustment will probably take the form of a slow decline coupled with strong inflation.

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

Are you for real? Must be on drugs!

Just me
Guest
Just me

Dream on dude. I was just like you until 5 years ago.
Then I learned my lesson.
A 30% correction would still be insanity in my book. Unfortunately 50 to 60 % is not going to happen as long as the chinese bring money in. They would be the first to snap land up at those prices.

Statistician
Guest
Statistician

Anyone have the breakdown for # of Detached, Townhome, Condo/Apartment, and Basement suites in each city in metro Vancouver? Or where to obtain them.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle
LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus

The thing is, somewhere the music stops with debt. Imagine what it means to real estate in Vancouver if it stops simultaneously in China and Canada.

UBC in Crisis Mode
Guest
UBC in Crisis Mode
MLS watch
Guest
MLS watch

Who cares, I cannot afford either…

LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus

What you should actually be able to buy in Vancouver for $2.5 million (plus inflation).

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

In California jurisdictions attempting rent control, realtor associations and ‘apartment associations’ block action:

South Bay: http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/23/mountain-view-rent-control-measure-sidelined-by-judges-order/

Rural North Bay:
http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/4392104-181/santa-rosas-great-rent-control?gallery=5128231&artslide=0

Those collecting signatures for the anti-rent control petition were paid $5 per signature and misled signatories about what the petition meant, according to NPR.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

The hidden costs of foreign student policy: Academic insiders respond
http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/the-hidden-cost-of-foreign-student-policy-insiders-respond

C.Junta
Guest
C.Junta

Thanks for the link. From the comments:

“our job as Canadians to share with them our values and beliefs, so that when these students/immigrants realize the costs of living in Canada, perhaps they will return to their country of origin with the values and attitudes required to help their own societies. As for Canadians, the friendships and cultural awareness we gain from interactions with foreign students are invaluable. Canada has much to offer the world, so we shouldn’t worry about burdens to our social and economic systems”

Messiah complex? Troll?

Just me
Guest
Just me

Masochistic tendency mised with an evagenlical narcissism.

I am sure thr Chinese have equally benevolent feelings towards Canada and its population. (It is Christmas after all)

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

“Moreover, there is no question that some prospective foreign students are cheating on language tests.

I spent many years marking the Language Proficiency Index, so I speak from experience here.

This kind of cheating can be difficult to prove and it is impossible to stamp out entirely. But it is definitely a factor in enabling some foreign students to gain entry to Canadian institutions.

“There is no question that some prospective foreign students are cheating on language tests. I spent many years marking the Language Proficiency Index, so I speak from experience,” says this former associate dean.
Moreover, students entering directly from China supply their grades from their Chinese high schools. If I were an admissions officer, I would consider these grades highly suspect.”

Cheating, eh? That’s quite a surprise.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

The Sun feels it necessary to tell stories about sales that happened in May, presumably because people want to feel good at Christmas.

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/vancouvers-cheapest-house-sold-for-150000-over-assessed-value

No Money Down
Member
No Money Down

It sold in May!

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Yes, that’s what I said.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Yo Funkey Monkey,

Your listing in question asking 2.988 sold for 2.940 after 3 days on market.

Pretty sharply priced for a large, modern west side house that includes a 1000 sqft laneway house.

Funkeymonkey
Member
Funkeymonkey

Thanks! The house had a for sale sign for at least three weeks.

Zen
Guest
Zen

Sharply priced for who?

A lady on CKNW summed up the Vancouver situation nicely. She said Asians don’t like to rent and when they send heir kid over for education, they buy so child can focus on study.

She said 500 million middle class and those that come will spend $1.5 million on home.

50 cents
Guest

Stop making up shit with CKNW you bitter trailer trash…

StupidityCheck
Guest
StupidityCheck

Chinese “middle-class” can’t even afford a 1-bedroom condo in Vancouver.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

Ha ha ha. “Focus on study”.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

This lady sounds like a realtor.

Either that or it’s Oracle calling in from Hawaii.

YVR
Guest
YVR

BS. Dorms at UBC a full of mainlanders renting. They just built 2 x 18 story towers to house them.

http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/will-ubcs-massive-foreign-student-complex-be-ready-by-september

Most of that 500 million Chinese “middle class” couldn’t afford an airline ticket to Canada.

China’s average annual wage was 56,360 yuan ($8,655) in 2014

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-09/here-s-what-china-s-middle-class-really-earn-and-spend

50 cents
Guest

YVR – you will say anything and do anything to support your Nazi rant – go back to your trailer

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

When you think about it, does writing 20 replies make your message stronger, or weaker?

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

20 copies of the same reply.

50 cents
Guest

CanNever
More like Can Never cry loud enough for people to hear your entitled rant….mommy help me…

paulb
Member

New
25
Price Change
4
Sold
66
TI:7332

http://www.paulboenisch.com

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Saved from a Chinese dog meat festival, 110 pooches arrive in Canada.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/saved-from-a-chinese-dog-meat-festival-110-pooches-arrive-in-canada-1.3215949?autoPlay=true

30 million dogs are slaughtered for meat every year around the world, the majority of them in China.

What can anybody even say about a disgusting practice like this? And it’s not just the consumption of the dogs, but the methods used in how they are captured and killed which I won’t get into here. Sickening animal cruelty of the worst kind.

50 cents
Guest

same logic – based on your name you must be a terrorist ….

Fear monger
Guest
Fear monger

Dogs are animals.
How many kids are killed in Syria, Iraq, and Palestine by Canadians, Americans and Juice.
You are a sick man, putting animals before innocent children.

chilled
Member
chilled

This is a product of a grossly overpopulated country that has seen waves of famine throughout history and thus people adapted. But what does Canada do to make matters worse? We implement immigration policies that only encourage world overpopulation. We allow immigration that circumvents Chinas very legitimate one child policy. We have even allowed Chinese ‘refugees’ who’s primary complaint was not being allowed to have more than one child.

Borabora
Guest
Borabora

I know a mainland China Chinese couple who came here on the basis of the wife’s prc (obtained via Cdn experience qualifiers- langara early childhood education, hahaha). She worked at a daycare, but had literally been on maternity leave for five years straight birthing son after son after son. Her husband does not appear to be employed, and I have observed them driving several different luxury vehicles that certainly no one else working at the daycare could dream of affording. Creative !

50 cents
Guest

Borabora – all I can smell is your bitter trailer trash rant….go back to banjo playing families
F loser

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

I hope beside food stamps, they get enough social assistance to at least cover up for maintenance and insurance of all those luxury vehicles.

50 cents
Guest

and white trash like you are selling meth on Hastings daily….

patriotz
Member

“Food stamps”? Check which side of the border the website is on before posting.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Food stamps, food aid, whatever, you know exactly what is it about…

https://www.chinasmack.com/?p=55479

50 cents
Guest

Combat is this 5 foot nothing white trash hillbilly chicken shit trolling on sites with his bitterness…

space889
Member
space889

Btw, care to back up your claim with some facts cuz even in Chinese cities with millions of people and sizable Korean population, it is damn hard to find any restaurant that serves dog meat.

Sailor55
Guest
Sailor55

I was in Taiwan for two months way back in 1993. My Canadian co-workers there told me never to worry about being served dog because they keep the good stuff for themselves.

50 cents
Guest

Sailor55 – with your banjo playing background you wouldn’t know if you were eating your own mother’s feet….

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

@50 cents.
Your insult is not working because you do not understand the culture well enough to know the breadth of associations with banjos. The one you’re thinking of is not the main one.

50 cents
Guest

I know enough to reconize the squealing you do every night trailer trash

50 cents
Guest

I know enough to reconize the squealing you do every night trailer trash

YVR
Guest
YVR

“it is damn hard to find any restaurant that serves dog meat.”

Hard to find but easy to eat in any Chinese restaurant. Dog meat is spelled “chicken” on the menu.

50 cents
Guest

YVR, if you let go of your boyfriend’s 1 incher, you will taste what meat you are eating….

space889
Member
space889

So uhm…how many cows, pigs, chicken, horse (yes horse!) are slaughter in Canada each year??

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Space, do you prefer the taste of cat or dog?

I’m more of a cow/pig/chicken guy myself.

50 cents
Guest

we don’t care what you do sexually with these animals…stay on topic you dumb banjo f—

YVR
Guest
YVR

“110 pooches arrive in Canada”

I can see it now on xmas in space cadets house. Hey dad I didn’t know there was such thing as a 4 legged turkey?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

And this relates to real estate how?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

It doesn’t. It’s just the usual suspects trawling for negative articles about their favourite topic – but not because they’re a little racist, oh no.

StupidityCheck
Guest
StupidityCheck

Mainland communist China is not a race, dipshit.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Merry Racemas, you round eyed prick!

50 cents
Guest

the only thing that’s round is your butt hole, closet case…

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

It might relate when due to a real estate boom some buyers of certain background and exquisite taste get urge for some special homemade delicatessen here in Canada. Would you ever think before that in the middle of Canada, BC, Mao Zedong would be worshipped and celebrated more than Canadian heroes and veterans?

50 cents
Guest

Roach is a chicken shit hiding in a white hood…

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

get the stimulus!

Canada’s Economy Shrinks on Worst Factory Output Since 2013

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-23/canada-s-economy-contracts-on-worst-factory-output-since-2013

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I remember looneys on sale for 62 cents. Maybe we could go for 50 this time.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Canada’s real-estate boom: a Chinese perspective

Think prices in Toronto or Vancouver are crazy? Try looking for an apartment in Shanghai, and you’ll understand Canada’s appeal.

“https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/12/23/canadas-real-estate-boom-a-chinese-perspective.html”

Close the gates now. Keeping them open spells disaster for the Lower Mainland.

50 cents
Guest

again its neo nazi dicks like Just Me who hides under trolls clothing to take cheap rants about any group that is doing better than this trailer trash….

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

“Close the gates now…”

And not because of real-estate, fuck the real-estate, but because of the overall social and human disaster in making. This lucrative but wild model of forced and enormous
settlement of one “unfit” group of people on the general detriment of another, is poised for a catastrophe sooner or later. Rational balance is already broken, local people are not happy, neither Chinese. However, most of them offset discomfort with the fact that they moved money out of China and that comes with the price. Whoever thinks that such chaotic and unfounded social and cultural changes can succeed without ugly consequences is going to get badly surprised.

50 cents
Guest

look in the mirror loser if you want to blame anyone

space889
Member
space889

I think you will be unhappy no matter where you live…well maybe except certain parts of SouthEast Asia where they love you long time for $20 still?

StupidityCheck
Guest
StupidityCheck

Speaking of “long time”, isn’t it time for you to find a new hobby?

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

From 1965 – Charlie Brown’s Christmas – Real Estate!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzHF0TlAIYA

Merry Christmas!

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

China’s Alibaba back on US counterfeits blacklist

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-38400222

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29