Downtown condo sales prices drift down

An anecdote from commenter YVR on asking prices downtown:

Every month a realtor send me listing and sales for my building where I rent. It is a newish building in downtown Vancouver so suites are almost identical to compare sale prices to. Here are the last 3 sales for almost identical suites:

March 2016 $1.32 million
June 2016 $1.36 million
Nov 2016 $1.15 million

From June to Nov that is over a 15% reduction or $210K in 5 months. Imagine being the person who bought in June and just received the same flyer with the recent sale price. Ouch. If he/she sold today after transaction costs they would be down by $280K and that assumes they could get the November price which is unlikely.

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C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

I also have an anecdote for you. I friend of mine is renting a two-store duplex in Burnaby. He checked out the assessment for his place, it’ exactly 1000 (one thousand) times bigger than his monthly rent. Which give price-to rent ratio of 83.

According to this article – https://smartasset.com/mortgage/price-to-rent-ratio-in-us-cities – San Francisco (the highest price-to-rent ratio in US) is 45 (Feb 2016).

End of story.

C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

Excuse my grammar. Fat finger syndrome.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

he probably lives in a shit hole and the rent is low to ensure he won’t complain until the landlord decides sell the property.

or his rent is going up.

C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

>he probably lives in a shit hole
Not at all. It’s a very decent area, the house was built in late seventies.

> his rent is going up
This is very likely

Anyways, my point was: those assessments we keep hearing about do not make much sense. The assessment for this particular property rose 45% this year, but there is no chance it can be sold for this amount in 2017.

PS I got more precise numbers. The actual assessment 1101 monthly rents, which give 91 price-to-rent ratio.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

>those assessments we keep hearing about do not make much sense.

the assessments makes perfect sense, you just don’t understand what the assessment represents.

obviously a house sold today is going to sell for a different price than what it was assessed at many months in the past.

this is true now and it was true when prices were going up very quickly.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

Rent is likely going up … 2.9 pct per year…

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Renovation… or owners moving in.

2.9% a year in your dreams. Thats not how the real world works. Renter probably has owner by the balls via capital gains tax threat. renter probably doesn’t know that CRA will probably side with owner cause of gov corruption.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

What you are talking about is fairly rare. When it happens, it makes the news, because it is rare. By and large, people are honest and just want a peaceful life. Approved rent increase, or even no rent increase, is by far and away the norm.

Of course, there are some scuzzballs out there, so it makes sense to do your diligence when choosing a landlord, just as landlords should be careful in choosing tenants.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
I looked at a townhouse in Vancouver West, near VGH. The assessed value this year is up 26%. I know what the former renters paid for this exact unit, and based on 2016 assessment the rent to assessment is around 372, or price to rent of 31. If I take the rent and compare to the cost of the last purchase price of the unit (in 2015), the numbers are 322 and 27 respectively. I then took a look at a townhouse I used to rent in Richmond. The assessed value is 30% higher than 2015. Using the rent I paid, the monthly ratio would be 375 to 2016 assessed values, yielding price to rent of 31. If instead I use 2016 assessed value of that unit, the numbers are 285 and 24 respectively. Finally, I took a look at… Read more »
Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

White Rock renting rocks. 103.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Mine is 62, but it’s central and the SFH I rent, while quite nice, is too small for the lot, particularly at the current price, and would certainly be replaced by a much larger house if sold, so the example is a bit skewed.

Kim
Guest
Kim

renters are laughing all the way to the bank (disclaimer I am not a renter but want to be but got vetoed by my partner).

How I want to just liquidate my money and buy some good more dividend paying stocks.

best place on earth
Guest
best place on earth

of course, renters are rich with ton of cash under the pillow, and always laughing all the way to the bank … until the rent cheque cashed!

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

Some renters are rich. Some are not. Many have assets in other investments besides Vancouver Real Estate.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Barely anyone who is wealthy would rent.

Even if you have a portfolio in the high 6 figures, that wouldn’t even put a dent in the cost of a SFD home in Vancouver. More than 50% detached in Vancouver are paid for. Those people are way richer than anyone with a high 6 figure portfolio.

Plus a home will never be considered as a liability for government programs like GIS, MSP etc.

yvr2zrh
Member

Some (but not many) renters have mid 7-figure investment portfolios and will never have to worry for the rest of their lives. They are more diversified, the yield is way more than any property would pay them in the form of rent (or rent dividend for owner-occupied). However – I would say this is an exception.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

Those people never visit blogs like this. We are the blogging poor. Regardless of how much someone here says their portfolio is worth.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Think again. Seven figures is not a lot these days.

yvr2zrh
Member

Between Oracle and Newcomer – one of you is correct.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I think it helps to recognize that renters, like owners, are diverse. In general, in any market, owners are richer than renters because the majority of renters are forced to rent (too poor to buy). Also, historically, in most markets, buying has made financial sense. The current Vancouver market is an anomaly, and in these conditions, buying is unreasonably risky. Some renters rent for this reason. Some of these renters might be more financially literate and better at managing their finances than some owners.

Does that make more sense to you than the “all renters are xxx” approach?

patriotz
Member

It should be noted that almost all bubbles coincide with high rates of owner occupancy. So during bubbles the average owner-occupier actually has a lower income than during times when prices are reasonable.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

patriotz, could you explain this in more detail. I’m not following why during a bubble the same owner-occupier has a lower income than when prices are reasonable.

Are you saying that the average income of owner-occupiers is lower during a housing bubble because lower income households become owners in a bubble?

realist
Member
realist

“because lower income households become owners in a bubble?”
Yes. Bush’s “Ownership Society” in 2003 could well have been called the “Subprime Ownership Society”, as it later became precisely that. If you consider the matter, where else would the marginal buyers come from? (PS I’m definitely not patriotz, but I see he’s been on the blog since you posted and didn’t answer!)

vangrl
Member
vangrl

You’re completely missing the fact that some renters (like myself) used to be owners. I have a few friends that also recently cashed out of the Vancouver market to get a roughly 5% dividend in diversified holdings.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I don’t know if that needs a separate category from the general financially literate renter. By a certain age, most financially literate people have owned at some point.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

What is this rent cheque you speak of?

Is this some prehistoric method by which amateur landlords recieve rent payments?

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

I might have the top:

125.7

I rent in Kerrisdale.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

Price to rent over 50 based on land value. Westside here.

ChinaOne
Guest
ChinaOne

I rent dad home. Price rent ratio 2000. I live my condo ubc. Dad no pay empty home tax. We happy.

More my cousin coming and we now buy art.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-09/trudeau-s-arts-chief-heads-to-china-in-pivot-from-protectionism

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Shhh.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

ChinaOne, constantly repeating his rote “I buy 3 and husbah buy 3”, but apparently after owning 6 homes stills has to live in Dad’s basement.

Oracle, recently boasting of how accurate his predictions were of Vancouver housing over the past 10 years, somehow aspired only to buy in Surrey and didn’t even manage to do that.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

How many times do i have to say i don’t own a home. I’m a renter.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Do you like your rental? Do you think it’s fair value for money?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

ChinaOne is Oracle. They have the same graphic next to their name because their IP addresses are the same.

patriotz
Member

I own, but if I rented the p/r would be about 16.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
An architect/real estate developer/real estate consultant shares why he thinks rents won’t be helped by Empty Home Tax and other measures. http://www.vancourier.com/opinion/outlook-does-not-look-good-for-vancouver-renters-in-2017-1.6242806 I like how an architect disputes Economist Tom Davidoff’s opinion the tax might help rates go down, but I link to this mostly because of this excellent comment. Apologies to all those against taxing empty homes, but for those who argue it’s hard to track, the comment offers an interesting alternative: Posted by “jbw87”: ======= I’d like to see residential housing purchases become a licensed transaction. The licenses should only be made available to those with singular Canadian citizenship, or those who file their taxes in the province in which they’re applying for the license. No companies, no corporations, and no offshore, or inter provincial investors. Licenses should be free for the first purchase, up to the mortgage… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

That level of regulation is not warranted at a provincial level. Even if it were, it is not well thought out. If you pay a 15% tax on the purchase of a rental property, that is a disincentive to investment in rental properties, which is the last thing we need. Also, rent controls on new purchases have been proven to be a major disincentive to rental building.

As for rewriting the income tax laws, they guy is off in fantasy land. Things are not that simple.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

I’m not convinced income tax changes are a fantasy. As it stands the tax rules already get tweaked on a regular basis. Just look at taxtips.ca which sometimes leaves obsolete policies or policies dropped before they ever get enacted. I guess it depends on how substantial some of the changes really are.

I do agree CMHC and bank reserve requirements are the simpler fix.

patriotz
Member

Schemes which seek to segment eligibility of the buying pool don’t work because they offer profit incentives for using proxies or other means to circumvent the rules. They also punish legitimate landlords. This part gets it right and is all that is really needed, and essentially what the NDP bill introduced in the legislature proposed:

“A minimum income tax should be assessed, based on the value of a property to ensure that all are paying their fair share of taxes. “

patriotz
Member

“Lastly, seniors should be locked into a property tax amount that reflect the assessment of their property in the last year in which they were employed.”

And this is truly outrageous. Punishing seniors for remaining employed, and charging those who aren’t a fraction of the taxes other pay for the same house? The present incentives for seniors to hold onto properties that are too big or too expensive are bad enough.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

Indeed I thought some of the ideas were heavy handed, this one in particular.

C.Junta
Member
C.Junta
“residential housing purchases become a licensed transaction” Yeah, regulate it to death. This kind of reactive measures (including vacancy tax or foreign purchase tax) is just an attempt to fight the consequences instead of focusing on the root cause. There are just a few (big) fundamental problems that must be addressed instead: 1. Artificially low rates. Enough said. 2. Foreign capital flow control. 3. Wealth inequality (partially caused by #2 in Vancouver). Low rates. I am not sure that Bank of Canada is in the position of raising the rates without looking at the Fed. Anyways, I am not an economist, but this whole concept of cheap money does not look good to me. Foreign capital. Close to non-existent at the moment. Wealth inequality. Introducing some form of a wealth tax will make a huge difference. Check “wealth tax” in… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Low rates are an easy problem to fix. The problem is the rate charged to consumers by the banks. Take away the CMHC insurance and the rates will jump up as the bank covers the cost of the risk. If that were not enough (it almost certainly would be) then you can change the bank’s reserve requirements and do various other things that make mortgages more costly to the banks. There is no need to touch the central bank rate.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

How much would you think rates would jump up if CMHC were to stop issuing any insurance at all (all forms of insurance, including the ones banks themselves rely on, not just the retail insurance direct to buyers).

C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

Agreed. Please add #4 ‘shut down cmhc’.

space889
Member
space889

Reduce income tax – reward local working productive people
Increase property tax – tax non-productive assets & people like rich immigrants who don’t work, or offshore owners

Assess social assistance based on assets / income.

If some seniors can’t afford to live in their $3M home due to higher property tax, unfortunate, but again not society’s responsibility to ensure they can live in an expensive house while young families struggle.

C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

Yep, something like that. The devil is in the details as usual.

Who are those “local working productive people”? What kind of assets should we consider productive? As for assessing income/wealth – easier said than done. I had some experience dealing with Revenue Canada and I am not convinced they can do that efficiently without some serious restructuring and process change.

paulb
Member

New
278
Price Change
37
Sold
58

TI:6520

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

Nice. Hopefully inventory spikes up massively.

Prices crash. tenth people here buy in.

But that wont stop the injustice. We get in and that about the people behind us who miss the boat??? Governments purpose is stability; Not pumping bubbles purposely…. the plague on their families.

JayTor
Guest
JayTor

Love to see 8K by the end of the month, and if this keeps up I will get my wish and more.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

A rise of 150 in inventory, hopefully this becomes commonplace.

Bullwhip29
Guest
Bullwhip29

Honestly I didn’t expect this announcement so soon. Homeowner grant threshold being raised from$1.2M to $1.6M. Announcement set for tomorrow. Cocktails and hor d’oevres to follow…

Next up…a big splashy mega project announcment between now and election time.

Bullwhip29
Guest
Bullwhip29

New bc govt commercial features Chinese toddler…

http://Www.togetherforbc.ca

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Again. Stay on topic and drop the race hate stuff.

The video features a little girl from BC. You have no idea what country her ancestors come from.

You come off sounding like a fool and, to be clear, an evil person, when you say stuff like that.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

You’re outed. Maybe get a new name and start again.

specuskeptic
Member

Said completely un-ironically. UR the only one who does that around here at this point. Hilarious if not sad… Definitely irritating.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“New bc govt commercial features Chinese toddler…”

LOL that is not a BC government website or commercial with a Chinese toddler. It the BC Federation of Labour (affiliated with the BC NDP).

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Very infective ad. First Chinese don’t vote. Second their message seems to be mixed:

>Unless we do something fast, BC is going to be a place where only the rich can live.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Are you the one who lives in Delta? I can’t remember. Anyway, all you have to do is visit a polling station in a place where people whatever heritage live and you will see that everyone votes.

Bullwhip29
Guest
Bullwhip29

And get your year of the rooster commerative stamps…

http://Www.canadapost.ca

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

bullwhip, I, and many others appreciate your real estate related posts. I personally would appreciate if you stopped posting stuff like this that appears to be pushing some agenda or message about race.

Bullwhip29
Guest
Bullwhip29

Seriously? I am not the one who appears to pushing an agenda. Just forwarding info posted on govt websites. Nothing more…

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Come on, man. Don’t be silly. BV is right. Come and talk about real estate, leave the stuff about groups of people that you don’t like at the door.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

You understand where newcomer comes from. Good for you.

Don’t forget we are the good people.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Where do I come from, Oracle? Let’s see how good your race-dar is.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

It turns out that newcomer doesn’t come from anywhere.

S/he just likes to pretend by referring to him/herself as a newcomer and a migrant, terms normally associated with immigrants.

There are a few people here who like to mislead.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I grew up in Ontario but I have since lived in various places around the word. I moved to BC from NYC in 2006 and used the handle Newcomer to make it clear that I didn’t know much about the lay of the land in terms of local real estate. I haven’t changed my handle.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You’ve missed the point. The point is that those are not real estate issues.

Before you post, just look at the URL of this site and ask yourself it what you are posting has anything to do with the URL. Failsafe.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Ignore the race baiters, Bullwhip.

We are under attack by corrupt, hostile barbararians and these clowns want you to be a good little Canuck, be polite and keep your mouth shut.

That’s why they keep bringing up race rather than discuss the criminal behaviour of these communists, money launderers, tax evaders, thieves and spies.

Keep fighting for your country, it won’t be easy. We have plenty of traitors willing to sell us into slavery.

space889
Member
space889

You are the only race who can’t shut about the yellow peril. Stop talking to yourself in the mirror.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

This isn’t about the race but selling Canada and BC out as well as sucking up to Chinese. If it were Sweden or Pakistany symbols, language, etc. reaction should be the same, no different whatsoever. For some Canadians is quite insulting, offensive and disturbing to have Chinese agenda aggressively pushed up by legit officials so please think twice before scolding other Canadians and pulling the race card. And how all these relate to real estate I believe we already know that very well.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

But that is an abnormal reaction. Why should you be offended by Swedish or Pakistani symbols? Should be limit ourselves to First Nation symbols? Is it OK that there is the word “British” in the name of our province, or should we change that because it panders to people from a non-Canadian country?

This is what we do here in Canada. We celebrate the cultures that make up the country. Lots of BC citizens get into the Asian year of the xxx thing (and not just those of Asian heritage either).

Lighten up. Enjoy life. Here’s wishing you a happy year of the rooster.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

What’s that? Combat roach insisting we stay on topic? I never thought I’d see the day.

space889
Member
space889

I’m sure the First Nations wish they can go back and change some of the decisions your ancestors pushed on them…like smallpox, or letting you & your ancestor into the country.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

US Bond yields crashing. Down almost 20% since recent peak.

Record low YVR inventory.

China not stopping capital flight.

Hmmmm. Wonder what will happen? LMAO

We are back in the dark ages people. Survival of the fittest. Go grab whats yours.

The Man
Guest
The Man

You do realize that when bond yields go down interest rates go up.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

Clearly Im detested by many here. Lets set the record straight.

I’m a renter and not a owner. Nor am i going to inherit real estate.

The reason i get pissed off here is that you guys can’t see the light. the caucasians here are clueless to how the global mind thinks. The others are Asian here that distort the caucasian mind.

Im convinced that prices are going up this spring. all i can say while being attacked is watch and see. After they do, could you at least consider that my thesis may be correct?

specuskeptic
Member

You’ve said this exact same exact thing ad nauseam for years. Why can’t you accept that people disagree with you? Also, when, after lying so often, you say “let’s set the record straight”, it really is quite laughable. Your inability to see this is…. amazing.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Hey, you and ChinaOne have the same IP! Well, fancy that.

YVR
Guest
YVR

What an idiot. Oracle/ChinaOne get off the crack.

I rent dad home. Price rent ratio 2000. I live my condo ubc. Dad no pay empty home tax. We happy.

then a few hours later same IP address

Clearly Im detested by many here. Lets set the record straight. I’m a renter and not a owner. Nor am i going to inherit real estate.

You got the “detested” part right. Go away loser.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Pope do we need Trolls like this around here?

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

And I would like to see prices crash by 50%. But not gonna happen with ‘bears’ that have no clue about why prices high in the first place.

Think “top down” trickle effect.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

OK, but you argue that prices will not go down. If that’s the case, you don’t really have a problem. Just buy. If you are short on money, buy something in Whalley (it will gentrify over time due to all the money coming into the region). You can borrow half your down payment from the government.

Here is one:
http://www.rew.ca/properties/R2129284/208-9763-140-street-surrey-bc?property_type=apartment-condo&property_browse=whalley-surrey-bc

You need about $6000 for your half of the downpayment. With strata fees, your monthly payment is about 1500. And this is a two bedroom, suitable for a small family. If you are single, you can find stuff for much less.

Once I start thinking about it, there are tons of deals in Surrey for a person convinced that both prices and rents are going up.

What’s going on? Why aren’t you buying?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Drop the attempted race analysis, you’ll see the world more clearly. You have no idea what heritage most of the poster on this site have. It’s happening exclusively in your head. You read someone’s post, assign a race to them, and confirm your bias ever time you see them saying similar things.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
Oracle, I poke fun at you but I don’t detest you. I do detest when you post things that aren’t backed by facts. Your post about the Bond yields crashing for instance is very relevant, would love if you provided actual figures instead of a %. Regarding your case of renting but not owning. That’s a major problem. If I were like you, and I believed prices were going up forever, immigration is unchecked, wealthy immigrants will price locals out forever, and that the current value of homes is good, I would buy, and I would buy the best house in the best area I could find. Then I would leverage equity as it builds, and buy more. The difference here is that many on the blog don’t believe those things, so they aren’t buying. That you believe these things… Read more »
Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

“Clearly Im detested by many here.”

Congratulations on your first factual statement.

Confucius
Guest
Confucius

Stop feeding the Trollacle. I thought he/she/it had down syndrome or was a troll, but now I know for a fact it’s a troll. People with down syndrome have greater cognitive abilities.

The Oracle
Guest
The Oracle

Why bring people with Down’s in this? They’re people just like everyone else.

This blog is the worse.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I’m glad to see that you agree that people are people and there is no point making generalizations based on membership in an identifiable group.

I would disagree with your second statement, though. The comments section is much more interesting recently, following the IP bans on people who were posting off topic and without common courtesy.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

Has this been posted?

http://vancitycondoguide.com/vancouver-condo-report-december-2016/

“It was still a relatively strong month for Vancouver condos. Despite a pretty big drop off in sales, which are now below the 10 year average. Inventory remains at record low levels. This is allowing Vancouver condos to sell relatively quickly (34 days). However, prime selling season is just around the corner so more listings are coming. Prices have corrected about 5% and list prices are now showing that. Multiple offers are rare, only 38/238, or 16% of listings were sold over asking price. There should be a little room for negotiation on most prices but you’ll have to act quickly as condos are still selling quickly, especially at the lower end (under $600,000).”

Would be interesting if Steve could do an article showing % of units that sold under asking and track that data over time.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“B.C. government set to raise homeowner grant threshold”, CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-government-set-to-raise-homeowner-grant-threshold-1.3928365

“The Ministry of Finance would not say how much the threshold would go up, only that an increase from the current $1.2 million limit would be announced later this week. “

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

they already told global news limit will be raised by $400,000 to $1.6M
http://globalnews.ca/news/3170559/b-c-to-raise-homeowner-grant-threshold-de-jong/

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

NPD housing critic says nobody wins if homeowner grant cap bumped to $1.6M
http://www.news1130.com/2017/01/09/npd-housing-critic-says-nobody-wins-homeowner-grant-cap-bumped-1-6m/

vangrl
Member
vangrl

Ok so this listing was de-listed & re-listed at 32% less (It was asking too much originally, don’t get too excited), and that “MyRealtyCheck” site is reflecting the price change. Nice!

https://www.zolo.ca/delta-real-estate/5671-ladner-trunk-road

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

that’s funny, I posted about this exact location not that long ago. i believe this is the property right next door which could maybe explain a thing or two…

http://vancouvercondo.info/2017/01/free-money-can-be-popular.html#comment-290672

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

quasi canada-china “educational” centers have a number of very low profile (almost hidden) locations all over the lower mainland

i drive past here all the time and noticed this one just popped up a few months ago…in a nice, normal “residential” neighborhood. surely there are countless others…
http://tinyurl.com/gtkcgzo

vangrl
Member
vangrl

This T.H is in Ladner, mot Powell River.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

scroll down to the comment on quasi canada-china etc (which i also reposted above) dont know why comment indexing is off???

Sebastien
Guest
Sebastien

Hi Everyone,

Here’s a good doom porn anecdote:

6471 Constable Drive, Richmond
Nov 1: $1,488,000
Jan 9: $1,118,000
Change: – 370000 -25%

Can someone find a worst decline?

YVR
Guest
YVR

Let us know when it is listed for $300K. That is what it is worth.

C.Junta
Member
C.Junta

Easy. Here is a “catch the peak” sale attempt in Richmond, on the market since June 2016:
7351 MCCALLAN ROAD
June 2016: $2880000
Dec 2016-Jan 2017: $1933000
-32.8%
Hurry up, still for sale.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

These were fantasyland prices which mean very little today. At best they will find interested parties in the $1.5-1.6M range but to suggest this represents a $1M is probably incorrect.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Edit… A $1M “discount”

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

It’s true that they probably would not have got the original asking price (though who knows, selling prices have been quasi-random for some time now) but they serve as asking comps. When people are pricing their house, or shopping for a house, they look at asking prices. A friend sold a the peak basically by having the least delusional asking price in his neighborhood. Today, he’d have to start with a much lower price to do the same thing. So, while the drops in asking prices should not be thought of as the same as drops in selling prices, they are not meaningless.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

No Money Down
http://vancouvercondo.info/2017/01/friday-free-for-all-276.html#comment-290870
Cheapest House in Vancouver?
https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/1358-e-28th-avenue

Listed for $898k (142 days on market)
Assessed $1.34M
33% below assessed value.

Sold for 935K, originally listed at 998.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

19 houses listed on the west side yesterday vs. 2 sales.

Both sales were 12% below the original listing price.

vangrl
Member
vangrl

BPOM I know I asked you this before, so sorry for asking again, but can you please link to that realtor’s sign-up page that gives you these stats. thank you

Best place on meth
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Best place on meth
vangrl
Member
vangrl

Thanks

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Victoria lost about 1,000 hotel rooms over last 4 years, realtor says
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/victoria-hotel-rooms-1.3928590

Buynow or Getlaidnever
Guest
Buynow or Getlaidnever

Trudeau cabinet shuffle,John McCallum will leave his post as minister of Immigration, and will become the Canadian ambassador to China.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-government-cabinet-shuffle-2017-1.3928723

Best place on meth
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Best place on meth

Good riddance to an old hack and terrible immigration minister, although I wonder if he did something else to get himself demoted and punished in such a manner.

He wont last long in that Beijing smog.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull
is the NDP going to campaign on an anti-HAM platform during the election? given this link posted by bullwhip i think they might. https://togetherforbc.ca/ look at the wording: “Unless we do something fast, BC is going to be a place where only the rich can live.” sounds like anti-HAM rehtoric. look at the advertisement at the bottom of the page featuring a chinese toddler. i thought it was odd to have a chinese toddler given these two facts: 1) chinese don’t vote NDP 2) chinese have low voter turnout the people who produced that ad must understand basic bc electoral demographics, so then why choose a chinese kid? you choose a chinese kid to prove you aren’t racist. because accusations of racism are the expected response to an anti-HAM campaign. right now they are probably just testing the waters with… Read more »
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

I think you nailed it. Obviously the ndp have to tread lightly here but the subtle visuals in this ad probably do enough to irritate many.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Here’s another possible explanation. The campaign is pitting itself against the interests of the rich, and the vast majority of the rich here are locals. But because you have a pathological focus on Chinese people, you wove them into the story, and then made the story even more complex because a model representing innocent childhood in their video happens to have Asian features.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

focusing on the impact of chinese in vancouver has increased my net worth. that’s not a pathology. it’s being realistic.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Your net worth would have risen by exactly the same amount by focusing on local buyers, and you would not have fostered hate.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

thanks but when it comes to real estate i don’t trust the judgment of a life time renter who missed the biggest economic event in BC’s history.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You are right. I have not had any success in predicting Vancouver real estate so far. But that has nothing to do with the point at hand. No matter how bad at predicting things I am, you will certainly agree that your net worth would have risen by exactly the same amount by focusing on local buyers, and you would not have fostered hate.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

you are bad at predicting the future because you don’t understand what is moving the market. a rational person revisits their thesis when it’s proven wrong. you don’t. what does that tell you?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You are mistaken. I do revisit my theses all the time. That’s what I am doing here.

But let’s get specific. What thesis do you believe has been proven wrong?

Foo Man
Guest
Foo Man

Why don’t you get specific numbnuts? Why would anyone bother sorting out your incorrect real estate theories? Why can’t you get it right? What have you learned from revisiting your theses?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

As one example, I learned the difference between housing stock and housing supply. I also learned that high prices are not necessarily self correcting as long as they are going up.

Another thing I learned quite a long time ago is that, if I start a conversation with an insult, it puts me in a defensive mood (waiting for the other to strike back) and makes it hard to listen to what anyone else is saying or, for that matter, to enjoy the conversation at all.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

>I also learned that high prices are not necessarily self correcting as long as they are going up

you learned that prices aren’t going down if they are going up?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

That same misplaced focus will also decrease your net worth in the future. Good luck.

Yunak
Member
Yunak
You are going over the board by insisting on PC while politely scolding the others in an attempt to change something what has been proven as a fact a long time ago. Not all but the significant (given the size of the LM) number of Chinese is laundering and parking money in BC. They aren’t interested in Canadian society and local community. They are looking to take any possible advantage of the current system in order to profit from it. They are flipping houses, they are falsifying documents, they cheat with health care cards, they are getting social assistance, using free services while not adequately contributing (astronaut families, schooling, medical, extended families…), and the list goes on and on. Until we honestly acknowledge what is going on and confront all of this anomalies we are not going to make any… Read more »
Yunak
Member
Yunak
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Here’s the thing. Foreign money can be one factor in the market without being the only factor. Some recent immigrants can behave inappropriately without everyone coming from the same part of the world being wicked.

This is a blog for talking about real estate. It makes sense to talk about foreign money and money laundering through real estate. Things like handicapped parking passes, manners, language and so on have no place on a real estate blog.

If you let yourself get emotionally caught up in one factor of a complex system, your analysis will be incomplete.

It’s also boring to read updates about every instance of a Chinese person being rich, or annoying, or just plain present. It’s like riding in a car with a kid who is pointing out Voltswagons. One’s patience can wear thin.

Yunak
Member
Yunak

Utter demagogy. Generalization doesn’t work (eg. immigrants, foreign money, race), but it sounds “nice and friendly”. Being specific doesn’t mean being “racist” or annoying or off the topic or VCI unrelated.

Discussing Vancouver Housing Data Isn’t “Racist” – And It shows How Chinese Foreign Buyers Are Driving Up Home Prices

http://billtieleman.blogspot.ca/2016/11/discussing-vancouver-housing-data-isnt.html

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I agree.

In contrast, BW’s original comment, “New bc govt commercial features Chinese toddler…,” which is what we are discussing, was racist in intent.

Foo Man
Guest
Foo Man

Who fucking cares? You think 10 years of real estate meltdown predictions in light of %100 increases isn’t hard on the patience?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

It probably is. It is also more or less what you can expect on a blog with the tag line, “Bubble? What bubble?”

Are there no blogs out there with the tag line, “Yellow peril? What yellow peril?” where you would feel more at home?

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
No one is denying that rich immigrants and foreign money are part of the problem. I list these constantly and I consistently support control and deterrence of wealthy immigrants and foreign money from inflating our real estate. We can and should definitely address abuses, tax evasion and money laundering. We can do so without constantly talking about race. It’s also in our best interest to stamp out such activities regardless of race. The law and fairness should apply to everyone, and Rich Asians, Rich Britains, Poor White Dudes; none will get a pass. The problem is that there is this belief that by stopping immigration altogether or by vilifying certain ethnic groups we can somehow get the popular vote to do something… do what? Stop all immigration from Asia? That type of vilification and hyper focus is a waste of… Read more »
Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

I should also note that David Eby and the NDP have indicated that they could support using T4s to identify local income earners for property taxation purposes.

In other words, if you want to help stamp out easy real estate money laundering you can do so easily by voting NDP. Certainly casting that vote will be more effective than constantly posting non-real estate related posts on VCI.

patriotz
Member

“because accusations of racism are the expected response to an anti-HAM campaign. ”

It’s not going to be an “anti-HAM” campaign, it’s going to be a Bernie Sanders style “99% versus the 1%” campaign. Of course the voters will be free to decide who those 1% are. I think the NDP would actually welcome Christy accusing them of having a hidden anti-rich Chinese message, because that would put her in the position of siding with the latter.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“Of course the voters will be free to decide who those 1% are.”

1% refers to those who report income in the top 1% of income earners. The 1% are the people who work hard and pay lots of taxes here in BC. HAM typically has little or no declared income in Canada and pays no income tax. In fact most are counted as families in poverty. HAM is not part of the 1%. If it is a battle against the 1% vs the 99% then the NDP are fighting for HAM who are not part of the 1%.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

There is no formal definition of the 1% but I think almost everyone believes it refers to people who do not work very hard for their money but rather gain it through unfair advantage. That’s why they are not popular. You must have noted that when people say “1%” or “99%” they are essentially never pro 1%.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“There is no formal definition of the 1% ”

Yes there is. It is the top 1% of income earners (those who report income and pay taxes). Those who don’t report income are in the 99%. Naturally 99% of the people are not in the 1% and will be against these evil slackers.

In broad strokes, we know that the top one per cent tend to be middle-aged men who are married and live in a big city — much like it was 50 years ago. They also tend to have a university degree and work in the areas you’d expect — medicine, dentistry, law, engineering, business and finance, and management./blockquote>

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/who-are-canada-s-top-1-1.1703321

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I’m sorry, but the article you are quoting from has missed the point. It’s kind of typical of the CBC. You might read this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_are_the_99%25) to get a sense of what the term is usually understood to mean.

“[I]n our democracy, 1% of the people take nearly a quarter of the nation’s income … In terms of wealth rather than income, the top 1% control 40% … [as a result] the top 1% have the best houses, the best educations, the best doctors, and the best lifestyles, but there is one thing that money doesn’t seem to have bought: an understanding that their fate is bound up with how the other 99% live. Throughout history, this is something that the top 1% eventually do learn. Too late.”

patriotz
Member

Here is Sanders’ own definition of who the 1% are. Note it is most definitely not based on reported income, quite the contrary he accuses them of not reporting their income.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/income-and-wealth-inequality/

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

The top 1% is based on wealth, not income.

The top 0.1% control a ridiculous amount of wealth, they are the real problem.

CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName
Member
CanNeverThinkOfAGoodName

A surprisingly large percentage of the 1% (at least in the US0 are from the real estate industry or from families in the real estate industry. Over 1 in 4 inherit and of the others, real estate is third on the list for being the most common way to get super rich: http://fifthperson.com/top-10-ways-how-billionaires-actually-make-their-money/

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

In 2013 Wat won Richmond Centre with 49.8 per cent of the popular vote, with 43.7 per cent voter turnout.

That’s a ridiculously low turnout, it was 57% province wide.

Who was it here that said Chinese don’t vote, only to be “corrected” by the tedious resident PC police?

bullwhip29
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bullwhip29
Chinabuyeverything
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Chinabuyeverything
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