It’s the end of another week and that means it’s time for another Friday Free-for-all! Here are some recent links to kick off the chat:
So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes in the comments below and have an excellent weekend!
I know I’ll get downvoted for this but all the renter posters are falling further behind in life as each day goes by.
Unless you actively do something about the situation, posting here not gonna change anything.
#banforeignersfromowning
#reduceimmigration
Some days you claim to be a renter and all you are doing is posting on here. What gives?
#sawdustpricescrashing
This sentence says it all:
“Having just returned from Vancouver I can say that my experience in talking to locals was that if you scratch the surface of the Canada’s normally Teflon Presbyterianism, the anger about this is white hot.
You cannot tax these empty homes highly enough.”
Of course, you still find some deluded renters who think they are ahead. But the reality is tgat China’s moneyed ckasses (so far) have won this one. Everybody else, whether they accept or deny it, are much worse off.
Christy Clark sold the city off, with a smug smile on her fat face.
This guys response says it all:
How any government can stand by and watch foreign agents bid up their residents’ property and then effectively remove theses properties from the market at such a scale is absolutely obscene. This has to be one of the worst violations of public service I have ever seen, and I’m not just talking about Vancouver. Kudos to them for doing something, but a 15% up front tax is not nearly enough. Impose a 10% per annum land tax on all property held by people who are neither citizens nor permanent residents OR strictly limit their investments to new builds only and f**king enforce it. And by ‘new build’ I don’t mean replacing an existing single family home with a new McMansion.
How any government can stand by and watch foreign agents bid up their residents’ property?
We have a premiere who is a serial liar and pyschopath.
What was the question again?
the developers have too much power. Have to seize their gains.
” OR strictly limit their investments to new builds only ”
This is Australia’s policy and of all people someone from Oz would know that the country has one of the biggest bubbles in the world – worse than Canada. It does not moderate prices.
“Australia
Australia has barred non-resident investors from buying resale houses unless they plan to live there full-time. The country’s Foreign Investment Review Board requires international buyers to apply for permission to purchase or build new houses and charges fees to prospective investors that increase with the price of the house. Foreigners who break the rules could face jail time, while real estate agents who help clients bend the rules face steep fines.
The Australian government has also forced some foreign owners – including Canadians – to sell properties that do not qualify under the new rules. The rules temporarily slowed the housing market, but prices have rebounded, economists from Toronto-Dominion Bank wrote.”
This makes sense in that the rules just fuel the narrative of desirability and rarity, which are the real drivers.
Could you give an example of a renter who thinks, or has said, that they are ahead? I’m guessing that you have misunderstood.
I’m not a renter but it’s an objective fact that if renting is cheaper than buying, buyers are not recovering their costs from renters so renters are ahead of buyers.
Note I used the plural – I mean collectively. Sure someone who bought a few years ago can sell and make a lot of money, but that gain comes from the next buyer, not the renter of the property.
Perhaps I misunderstood Just Me. My take was that he was talking about being ahead as a result of the current market situation and Chinese participation, as compared to other possible situations, or ahead as compared to offshore buyers, but not ahead as compared to local buyers.
Time for a fight back against this. Most of you too timid. Fight for your cause or be a pushover. No one will care about you.
What are you fighting, empty blog space? Organize a rally and maybe we’ll join you, but probably not because you seem to be mentally challenged.
Daily RE Review for Feb 12: https://youtu.be/fMjk3k0B3A0
Makes Vancouver look downright cheap. 7x’s incomes? Come on!
http://www.macleans.ca/politics/worldpolitics/britain-wakes-up-to-the-end-of-home-ownership/
You mean the other way around?
Have you found the reasons why you are still renting yet? The writing is on the wall, but, it’s not expected you know them. Meanwhile, many people have taken steps to become home owners, even in 2017. It’s sucked to be bears.
Yes. It’s a better deal.
You convinced me to buy a home with your very intelligent post.
I love renting in Kerrsidale .
A 5 yr lease and a beautiful old home being renting for dimes vs ownership costs from a landlord I’ve never met from China who is likely laundering money.
Sounds like a win/win.
PS – I own my vacation home in Whistler. How’s that for priorities in the right place?
Your rent will be increasing. Din to be so smug.
“Population growth isn’t driving Toronto house prices. So what is?”, Maclean’s
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/economicanalysis/population-growth-isnt-driving-toronto-house-prices-so-what-is/
“While Toronto house prices have soared, the latest census figures show population growth in the city has begun to slow. So what’s driving the market? Wild-eyed speculation, according to David Madani”
“Madani pointed to the steep decline in housing sales in Vancouver, which have fallen 44 per cent since February 2016, noting that no macroeconomic shocks explain the drop. Mortgage rates remain incredibly low, despite mortgage rules being tightened by Ottawa. Meanwhile, employment growth has been relatively strong in that city. He also argued that the foreign buyer tax, introduced last August, doesn’t fully explain the collapse in sales either. “We simply think the housing bubble has burst,” he wrote. “Housing bubbles are, of course, inherently unstable because they are largely driven by unpredictable investor mania.””
Tick rock. Demographic bubble.
* tick tock
Anyone else noticing that the rental market seems to be cooling down? There seems to be a better selection of apartments at somewhat affordable prices.
There is a limit to how high the labour class can go.
Yes, but my worry is people will accept smaller spaces and worse living conditions.
The thing is, you have to be rewarded to make it worth while. In Paris, people live in maid’s rooms, which are five-story walk-ups, with one shared, dirty toilet for the floor. But they are in Paris and, for their careers, that makes any sacrifice acceptable. Similar things can be said of NYC, London, etc. But the reason people want to live in Vancouver is the lifestyle. There is nothing else on offer here. If your residence sucks, what kind of lifestyle is that?
People here will likely accept almost anything. The brainwashing is just that good.
I’m 99% sure you don’t believe that. Nobody has been brainwashed. So what do you mean?
Really? No one has been brainwashed by the buy now it only goes up mantra?
I think you mean something other than “brainwash.” Also, we were discussing why renters would put up with smaller, lower quality places.
I haven’t noticed that recently. There seems to be waves. I do notice quite a lot of people who list for month and months and months at unreasonable prices. These are often houses with multiple suites and I am guessing that, when you add the asking rents together, they equal the mortgage payment.
Those suites aren’t properly separated, leading to disputes over sound, smells etc. What a way to live.
Oh, I know. I would never consider one. Most of them expect you to split the utilities too. I have never seen this crap in any other city in the world. Has anyone encountered it?
Sounds like a student slum. So any place with post-secondary schools and high rents.
There are plenty that are rented to families. I know lots of people who live in suites. Students often don’t rent for a full year, so they typically rent different types of accommodation.
I was thinking of more than two suites. I grew up in a house divided into two suites, so I see what you mean about families living in them. I guess I was thinking of a house more divided up.
Right, those are worse, for sure. Though three and even four is getting pretty common for new builds targeting families. These are the ones where they have to make the rent add up to seven or eight K.
So Vancouver. Eye roll.
The bedroom and its bathroom are very comfortable, spacious and modern
Yes that mirror is very modern in a 1980’s futuristic style
I think Krusty just stuck a fork in herself.
Betweem this failed smear attempt and her flip-flop on the foreign buyer tax (which actually raised her polling numbers significantly when announced) she appears to be fully cooked.
Amazingly though, at least 25% of the electorate will still vote for a liar, thief and traitor.
There haven’t been any poll numbers in over 2 months since the NDP had a 2 point lead, this would be a good time to do a fresh poll.
“Amazingly though, at least 25% of the electorate will still vote for a liar, thief and traitor.”
The present day BC Liberal party (i.e post-Gordo takeover) has never polled below 40% and I expect Christy to do at least as well.
That’s Krusty in red, polling at 23% in 2012.
I meant the poll that counts. 44% was a win in 2013 and I pretty sure it would be a win in 2017. 40%, I doubt it.
She going to take this in a landslide. Homeowners going in all in for her. They United.
No way in hell Christy losing this election. Renters and ‘NDP’ to blame. Too gullible and have no street smarts to beat Christy.
Hearing reports that CC is about to declare Metro Vancouver a “Sanctaury City”.
Means no one ‘undocumented’ will ever be forced out and no discrimination (abolition of 15% tax).
Wow.
Everyone welcome now. Just make it to border. Will be called ‘Undocumented’. Not illegal. Lol
I’m texting all my friends and acquaintances that bring their relatives to Canada immediately on temp basis. If enough here, no way Canada sends them back. No way.
and where might you be ‘hearing this’? Care to share a link?
You can make your own calls, of course, but I’ve decided to shun Oracle. She is not honest, and not as funny as she once was.
Here is the link, probably misunderstood…
http://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3974892
Vancouver proclaims first Sex and Reproductive Health Day
728 E 32nd st new build Flip can anyone tell me what is just sold for? Happy Family day!
original list $2,398,000
reduced – $2,298,000
sold – $2,100,000
Sold above assessed:
2016 Assessed: $2.06M
Last sold in 2014 for $850k (it was then rebuilt in 2015 it seems)
It’s depressing how much that costs given the location, a 50% drop means that a newer home beside the cemetary will cost $1M.
If it’s a new build, maybe it wasn’t completed when assessment was done?
Under construction at time of assessment as the photo on BC Assessment shows.
Anyone else getting that Volt ad on this page? It is just reminding me how I am subsidizing other people’s car purchases. Personally, I’d rather my taxes go to bus passes for the disabled or students or whatever. I wonder if the BCNDP will keep the $5000 credit.
How you subsidizing others? You pay income tax? You pay for others education and healthcare yet don’t own a home like the others you support?
Join the Foreign money crowd and never pay income taxes. Join the cash economy here and never pay income taxes.
Otherwise you will continue to be the sucker.
Unfortunately, that’s the new Vancouver.
Vancouver has the lowest incomes of cities in Canada. Yet highest home prices.
Yet some people here and others like Garth Wiuld have you believe that its debt and not foreign money.
Lowest incomes and highest poverty rates.
The BC Libs are great forhomeowners, but suck for everybody else.
Aaron Best (realtor) on Twitter – “Metro Vancouver Lunar NewYear SFD Sales Volume YoY. 5 yr index. (not incl Whtlr, Pemby, Sqaw, SunCoast, Bowen, Gulf Isls)”
2 week Chinese New Year SFH stats
2012 – 617
2013 – 414
2014 – 539
2015 – 755
2016 – 936
2017 – 119
ouch
Buts it’s starting to get crazy these last 5 days. Watch the inventory over the next few weeks. Won’t budge. No subject offers are back.
Uggh!
Crazy? You are blowing it out of proportion.
http://www.rebgv.org/listed-vs-sold
Big surge in listings in January. Expect more in February. It would seem like there are a lot of real estate agents that bought into their own hype.
If you can convince customers not to list, perhaps you can unload your own inventory of investments?
Right, locust isn’t a factor…
Ofcourse not.
Chinese millionaire migrants are an invention of the racists.
You might want to try moving away from black and white thinking. Some people call some people racist in relation to real estate. Take, for example, Meth. The guy is a flat out, unapologetic racist. But not all people who cite HAM are racists. Look at Bear Vancouverite. Nice person. Likewise, not everyone who disagrees that HAM is the main driver disagrees because they think that is a racist position. There probably are some, but I have never seen even one example of it.
When you throw up the strawman, you are confusing yourself. You are discounting a whole line of reasoning for a reason that does not, in fact, underly the reasoning. If you just enjoy stating your opinion, that is fine. But if you want to understand Vancouver real estate, you should walk away from easy strawman arguments.
Looks like I made the condescending prick angry.
It’s lashing out again.
No, I’m not angry (I’ll be egocentric enough to assume that I am the condescending prick to whom you refer) and I am not lashing out. It is a well-established fact that you are a racist, or at least play one on the Internet. It is also clear that you do so with full awareness that it is an evil action, out of keeping with the culture in which you live. This is not news to you.
remember the yellow helicopter incident where the realtors were saying how the Chinese are coming and going to drive the market way up and we were all deniers. Now it’s us saying how much Chinese are/were impacting the market and the Realtors are/were the deniers…oh the irony…
2016 – 936
2017 – 119
Over an 87% decline. Plus those 119 that sold sold for 20% less than in 2016.
I bet is we looked at it in total dollar volume it would be down by over 95%. Most of those 119 that sold are in the sub $2 million range. Must suck to be a realtor on commision.
I’m surprised I haven’t seen this reflected in the economy yet. Even my contractor friends are doing fine.
Prepare to puke. Another Realtard telling it like it is.
http://www.stjeanrealty.com/b/blog/bc-premier-rolls-back-foreign-buyer-tax.html
Nope, another real estate agent trying to build up FOMO by suggesting everything is going to take off again.
Sorry, sentiment has changed. There are going to be a lot of real estate agents holding the bag on their own “investments”.
This scumbag realtor is denying that HAM pushed up prices and is calling for the foreign buyer tax to be eliminated.
He only cares about making more money and doesn’t give a shit about selling out his country.
I just saw on twitter, but can’t find the link of a graph from ZOLO that shows median house prices in VA has just shot up in Feb. If true, this completely correlates with CC announcement of rolling back the 15% FBT for work permit holders. Vote her out!
When you look at Zolo, you have to check the mix on the right. Roll your mouse along the graph to see the numbers involved and it will be apparent that the bump is fully explained by the change in mix. https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/trends
So, people have started to buy SFH again. In what universe is that bearish?
Christy Clark is successfully restarting the market. Help ro buy and rolling back of 15% tax, those are her true colora.
If you vote for her, you have no right to complain about high house prices!
Did I say it was bearish? Did I say I was voting for Clark?
Slow down. Read what people write. You might find it more interesting.
Low volumes = volatile median
“First-time homebuyer loans triggering real estate bidding wars”, CTV News video
http://bc.ctvnews.ca/first-time-homebuyer-loans-triggering-real-estate-bidding-wars-1.3281291
“The low-interest loan program introduced by the B.C. government to help first-time home buyers get into the market appears to be having a big impact on entry-level condos.”
“While government intervention in the real estate market put a chill on prices this summer, it looks like the new loan initiative is heating up prices again.”
“Bidding wars have returned, and some experts believe Victoria bears some of the blame.”
No! Shocking!
Do we need more evidence that Christy Clark is the problem, not the solution?
Her approval rating is lower than Trump’s.
Net minus 20 vs. net minus 9.
Multiple offers on many houses in Vancouver today in anticipation of lifting of foreign tax.
Tsunami coming as the money inflows want to get in before other measures taken at a later date.
no doubt this is what’s happening…
Posting without facts? check
No citing of any links or proof? check
“Tsunami of inflow” scaremongering? check
Sounds like Oracle? ding ding ding!
“First Time Buyer Loans Stimulating Condo Market”, Van City Condo Guide
http://vancitycondoguide.com/first-time-buyer-loans-stimulating-condo-market/
“…there’s an Entry Level Feeding Frenzy in the condo market. Prices and sales are picking right back up from the dark winter months, despite the detached market crumbling. … there’s a strong possibility this could be fuelled in part from Christy Clark’s first time buyer loan program.”
Today’s discussion on money laundering in Vancouver real estate as well as David Eby talking about shell companies starts at 16:00
Also, the Feb 4 program has a clear and detailed discussion of the massive loophole represented by the work permit, especially in relation to students with work permits. Around 5 mins.
The 15% tax will be emasculated. Thanks hyena ridens.
No one knows who the hell Hulk Hogan is. If Eby was the leader the NDP would have a much better chance.
Right, but even if people don’t know who Hulk Hogan is, should they still vote for known corrupted criminal?
So, you are suggesting we should keep a government corrupted to the bone because people can’t be bothered to do their homework?
” If Eby was the leader the NDP would have a much better chance”
You mean a guy from Vancouver who is preoccupied with a Vancouver problem? Now I think he’s doing a great job, but there’s more to winning BC elections than that.
We do have half the population of the province.
Sure, but many metro Vancouver ridings have never gone NDP and never will. The other half of the province matters too. Not to mention there are a lot of voters in metro Vancouver who don’t see the housing crisis as a problem.
He is very smart. With a good reputation. I personally think he is a good leader.
Great economic stewardship by the Bc Libs, right? One is not sure whether to laugh or cry at the voters who insist supporting the woman….
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/manitoba/22-refugees-enter-manitoba-1.3969874
hello, here i am, where’s my handout? Someone got a credit card for me? Where are your women? i want to do some raping.
>>However, Ahmed said there was a mix-up in paperwork, and he was released under supervision and moved in with family in Ohio.
“They gave me work authorization and then I became a truck driver. I used to drive. I became a taxpayer,” he said.
“I was supporting my family in Somalia, my wife and my kids.”
All of the recent refugees have expressed deep gratitude, Chahal said.<<
He's happy to work hard and pay taxes and he's grateful to be here.
Contrast that with the locusts who lie, cheat steal and pillage, come to Canada, launder the money in real estate, destroy our city and demand to be served in mandarin to boot.
I'll take these refugees all day every day.
Fully agree. I could not have put it better.
Christy Clark would, however, object. She has a thing for corrupt millionaire migrants.
Right, they are of the same kind. Corrupted, crooked, rotten, speak the same “language”, think and do the same. They like each other a lot, they are the fucking family.
Go Developers Go!!
you are winning!
dont quit now
no one likes a quitter!!
So my guess was high. That’s only enough to cover the next five years of growth if they stop building now.
You really believe those homes are empty?
#naive
Yes. The ones on the west side are totally desrted. Entire blocks with no lights on at 8pm or 9pm.
Oh, hey Oracle!
You keep missing a key detail: these homes are not coming back on the market any time soon. Thei ain’t selling them. They have been removed quasi-permanetly from the pool of local housing.
We’ll see.
From the linked article,more confirmation of what we have known for quite some time:
One year ago, when we first started discussing the Vancouver housing bubble, which as we first speculated – and was later confirmed – was the result of Chinese oligarch money-launderers parking “hot cash” in this offshore housing market (at least until a 15% property tax on foreign purchases made Seattle the new Vancouver), we said that Vancouver houses had become the de facto new Swiss bank account, and because of that the houses – once purchased – would remain a highly overprized, if vacant tribute to China’s soaring capital outflows
Took A YEAR ONLY here to figure out that it was laundered Chinese money?
General public have known for a decade.
Stats for the whole country. Compare to Vancouver CMA.
Your point being?
Well for example Kingston appears to an unoccupied rate of about 12%. How come?
And Kingston is a reasonable comparable to Vancouver?
Well I don’t think it has a lot of rich foreigners buying houses and leaving them empty. But it does have a lot of something else that Vancouver has a lot of.
Kingston has pensioners and snowbirds. Vancouver has massive white Mercedes SUVs and Range Rovers being driven by what appear to be single mothers with no job and no income.
Fair comparison.
How about comparing stats rather than your biased. observations?
Even by zerohedge standards, the headline is ridiculous. Statscan’s count is all unoccupied dwellings, not “mansions”, in Vancouver CMA accounting for 6.5% of all dwellings.
Mansions or not, this stock of housing will be out of the market for the foreseeable future. No rental tax will convince those buyers to liquidate, it will be just a cost of doing business.
They did not buy housing, they bought safe deposit boxes.
First of all you are assuming that all these dwellings are individually titled. They could be secondary suites, half duplexes or units in multiple unit rentals. Second note that some of them are properties awaiting sale or rental, or owner-occupied dwellings where the owner is away. Also note that AirBnB rentals will show up as “unoccupied” in the census.
Bottom line is that there are many other scenarios than rich guy buys house to put money in and leaves it empty.
I am not assuming anything. I live in Vancouver and I regularly go for walks around the city. On the west side, homes are pitch dark: entire streets with no visible signs of occupancy.
I cannot quantify how many of the 66,000 homes are actually investments by rich millionaires. But I can see first hand that, on the west side, there is certainly a heck of a lot of those. Certainly more than a few thousands. And those units are virtually out of the market.
I am not making this stuff up. Let me add: the more we come up with fanciful alternative explanations, the longer the problem will persist.
Some people switch off the lights when they go out.
They must be coordinating to go out every evening and at the same time, all week long.
There are no lights on any night in whole blocks.
But we can keep making hypothesis that are more and more far fetched, right? It doesn’t cost anything to come up with more fanciful explanations.
You spend your nights walking the same blocks over and over? Weird.
Is it so far-fetched that well-to-do people go out to dinner at the time people eat dinner?
Maybe he walks his dog every night, or jogs the same route.
What is your fucking problem with people reporting on their own neighborhood?
Whether he’s walking or jogging there’s an inherent bias in such observations.
What is your fucking problem with statistics?
Let’s not forget that your model of Van RE has been flawed for a decade, given the track record of the predictions you’ve made.
His model has been right all along. He gave you an explanation for what is driving prices higher.
Without chinese miney, prices inthis city would be half what they are tiday.
But what do you care? You have stats, right?
Patriotz’s point is that other cities have shown huge runups in prices AND empty homes and they don’t necessarily have tons of Chinese investors.
There are definitely huge swaths of Vancouver West where the night time “dark homes” and emptiness is way more than just people being out for dinner.
I recently had opportunity to go to Kerrisdale to buy something from a homeowner there. I was pretty depressed at how dark the streets were.
Gut feelings are OK, but you seem to mix up your gut feeling and fact at times. Instead of saying, “Mansions or not, this stock of housing will be out of the market for the foreseeable future,” you might consider, “I believe, based on the feeling I get when walking in my neighborhood in the evening, that many of these are owned by foreigners. Based on the way I imagine foreigners to be, my guess is that they will not sell.”
You might want to look at figures for the whole country:
Links don’t work.
There Are 66,719 Empty Mansions In Vancouver!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-11/there-are-66719-empty-mansions-vancouver
And we are talking about lack of housing, no land for building and affordability crisis.
January stats for the last 5 years: https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/5ta4vg/vancouver_real_estate_stats_for_the_past_5_years/
“The global implications are dire,” said Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson of the unrest in the United States. “But it may result in more workers coming to Vancouver to be part of the boom here in a city that welcomes immigrants with open arms.”
