Toronto #1 (in empty homes)

You were feeling all proud about the number of empty homes in Vancouver weren’t you?  25 thousand, that’s a lot, but Toronto just had to outdo us:

Hold my beer Vancouver, we got this. The newly released 2016 Census numbers from Statistics Canada, show the City of Toronto saw Vancouver’s 25k+ unoccupied homes, and trumped it by another 74k units. Now with over 99k unoccupied homes in the city, speculation of Toronto real estate might be worse than previously thought.

Read the full article here.

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Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

City of Toronto population: 2.79 million
City of Vancouver population: 603 thousand.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Reverse engineering the math used to get the % of unoccupied units the article has the population at 2.2 million.

99,000/.045 = 2,200,000

But then they talk about Vaughan, which isn’t even in the city of Toronto. If you want to include GTA that’s a population of closer to 6 million.

betterdwelling.com is garbage.

patriotz
Member

Looks like you’re correct. In the same article:

New data from Statistics Canada show that 99,236 homes in the Toronto CMA are irregularly occupied.

Toronto CMA is just about all of GTA, except for Oshawa which has its own CMA.

The Man
Guest
The Man

Better the man who makes a claim
And includes sources so that he can be proven wrong
Than the man who makes a claim
And does not include any sources.

Nice work in the continuing search for truth, betterdwelling.ocm

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Maths is hard, apparently.

UBC in Crisis Mode
Guest

Are these lots cheap? Not know why you are still buying them (sold yesterday in Van West):

1. 2446 W 16TH AVENUE, Arbutus,listed $2,488,000
2. 4018 W 32ND AVENUE, Dunbar,listed$2,500,000
3. 4125 BLENHEIM STREET, Dunbar,listed$2,285,000
4. 4087 W 16TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$2,590,000
5. 4638 W 15TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$3,988,000
6. 6907 FREMLIN STREET, South Cambie,listed$3,388,800

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

What everybody wants to know is what the sale price is, not the list price…and even better if we also know what their assessment values are…

squeak
Member
squeak

I like to know the list and sale price to see how connected or disconnected these two are.
We know a moldy dump on an ugly street in East van goes for over million!
I would emigrate before I would put my name on the dotted line for a pile of problems.

No Money Down
Member
No Money Down

1. 2446 W 16TH AVENUE, Arbutus,listed $2,488,000
Assessed $3.05M

2. 4018 W 32ND AVENUE, Dunbar,listed$2,500,000
Assessed $2.94M

3. 4125 BLENHEIM STREET, Dunbar,listed$2,285,000
Assessed $2.30M

4. 4087 W 16TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$2,590,000
Assessed $2.47M

5. 4638 W 15TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$3,988,000
Assessed $4.05M

6. 6907 FREMLIN STREET, South Cambie,listed$3,388,800
Assessed $3.65M

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/

UBC in Crisis Mode
Guest
UBC in Crisis Mode

Thanks, but only realtors know sold prices.

Funkeymonkey
Member
Funkeymonkey

google map 4638 W 15TH AVENUE picture is from aug 2015 I think a for sale sign in front of house. looks like new build.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

>Not know why you are still buying them (sold yesterday in Van West)

This is why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqcnuGn6-bc

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Locust is still getting money smuggled out of habitat.

squeak
Member
squeak

It is quite perplexing. Will we ever get the truth of the matter, who are these buyers??
The papers/media say diddely squatt. Our elected government is all about song and dance.
But this I know is true:
I am busting my butt doing a so called “essential service”, god forbid if I call in sick. My co workers are busting their assess, at least those in the same job category, and they are barely able to do any savings/investments and they are in my opinion fairly well paid.
So what gives?

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach
Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

What gives?

Your premiere is a fucking sleazy cunt who lies like a 5 year old and sells out to anyone including communists and criminals.

Although the 5 year old did back off today on the “Horgan hacked us” bullshit designed to shift attention from her failed ministry of family and children and the body count associated with it.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Christy Ckark has no conscience. Just a massive ego and a relentless thirst for power.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

2446 W 16TH AVENUE, Arbutus,listed $2,488,000……….not known
4018 W 32ND AVENUE, Dunbar,listed$2,500,000……..sold 2,500,000
4125 BLENHEIM STREET, Dunbar,listed$2,285,000……not known
4087 W 16TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$2,590,000………….sold 2,365,000
4638 W 15TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$3,988,000……sold 3,700,00
6907 FREMLIN STREET, South Cambie,listed$3,388,800……….Sold 3,138,000

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

All hell could break loose on the Chinese Yuan in coming weeks….
“China Approaches Breaking Point”
https://dailyreckoning.com/92458-2/

Londonernow
Member
Londonernow

There is an easy fix to this empty home problem: Link every home to a resident tax payer living in them. If no resident tax payer then tax the shit out of it: a 10% yearly fee of appraised value should suffice – perhaps rising by 5% annually. If they don’t like it the non-residents could always vote the politicians out…oh yeah non residents can’t vote! Tough!
Housing is for residents, it shouldn’t be the new version of a swiss bank account.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Now, that would certainly go some way in lowering prices and making housing affordable again. But we don’t want that, do we?
Try to send a letter to the members of our Provincial government, starting with Christy Clark. They would either ignore it, or come up with some convoluted story about defending the hard-earned equity of home owners.

By the way, what you are suggesting is just a version of what the UBC-SFU academics proposed last year. Christy Clark quite literally laughed in their face.

Londonernow
Member
Londonernow

It’s going to happen eventually. Once the voters mostly don’t own, I see non-residents being taxed to death. Housing is the most obvious thing to tax, you can’t take it anywhere.

patriotz
Member

” Once the voters mostly don’t own, I see non-residents being taxed to death.”

That could be a very long wait. All indicators say that the ownership rate has been increasing during this bubble. It could take an awfully long time to get down below 50%, if ever.

I do think that governments are going to have to increase their share of tax revenue for RE eventually, for just the reason you state.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Yes, eventually. When we are all dead.
I would like to see some change within my lifetime. And it is not going to happen for years if Chrsity Clark gets back into office.

This is why, like it or not, I am going to vote NDP at the next election. It might cost me some money through additional taxes and such. But it is the only hope we have to change the current setup for access to (and taxation of) real estate.

Ulsterman
Member

Exactly, it’s been 10+ years of calling tops in this market and some of us are getting long in the tooth for a 25 year mortgage!

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

I’m right there with you. At this point I’m assuming I might be collecting CPP before I finish paying a mortgage.

Just me
Guest
Just me

There are thousands of people in your same boat. This is a displacement. Rich millionaires have pushed a whole generation to the sidelines.

Of course, sellers ould rather seel to millionaires than to comparably less wealthy locals.

As long as locals keep voting politicians who condone this state of affairs there is no way out. This could go on for another 10 years.

patriotz
Member

“Rich millionaires have pushed a whole generation to the sidelines.”

But that’s not what’s happened. Rather, that generation’s parents have kept them in the RE game by funding them.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Parents in a house, kids in a shitty condos. That is still displacement.

Have you seen the fish bowls that developers are building here? 700 sqft with sealed windiws, low ceilings, no sound insulation.

Displacement.

squeak
Member
squeak

Or… one could take all that saved up money from not owning, and say good bye to this province and hello to another place where housing is reasonable.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

There are not a lot of them in Canada. Although the bubble is the most extreme in BC, almost the entire country is overvalued.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Lol, like that phrase ” hard-earned equity”. And then some people take it seriously as a true fact.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

What about a house full of students? You think UBC should be driven out of business too because there’d be nowhere for students to live (and consequently they’d choose a different institution) once landlords require a taxpayer to reside in their property?

Just me
Guest
Just me

UBC is shamefully condoning the abysmal behavior of student millionaires because they bring in a lot of cash. These kids behave like mobsters, driving around in their Porsches and Mercs, parking wherever, buying tutoring and getting homeworks done by third parties. I would not be surprised if some of them were sending stand-ins to take exams for them. The occurrence of cheating has steadily increased, triggering new guidelines.
Yet, UBC turns a blind eye. Pecunia non olet

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Shut His Face Already is referring to all the poor local students who have to crowd 12 to a house, not the offspring of chinese criminals who get 7000 square feet all to themselves.

Kim
Guest
Kim

Just go on any of the Chinese forums (vanpeople) and you’ll see tons of people asking and paying top dollar for people to impersonate and take exams for them. It’s rampant.

UBC in Crisis Mode
Guest

Price change, upward?

7-6063 Iona Drive, Vancouver

Oct 27:$1,599,000 (assessed $1,679,000)
Feb 8: $1,669,000
Change: 70000.00 4%

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

They figured, might need a new car, piano or new teeth, implants…

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

trump effect and real new year.

HAM is coming back home! market is picking up!

http://www.ussholland.org/Submarines/Polaris%20Missile%20A3.jpg

admin, i need to be able to insert images into my posts and have them visible without ppl needing to click. it’s important for educational reasons.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

No, it’s more important that we are spared the stupid images of your rockets blasting off.

Census Worker
Guest
Census Worker

The 25,000 empty homes are mostly basement suites (residential units as per census) that the owner said exists but no one living in them (even though someone is) in order not to indirectly give info to CRA about rental income.

Census starts with a listing of ‘housing’ units. Then they count how many in each. Most homeowners don’t allow access to suites by simply saying no one is living there.

Census Worker
Guest
Census Worker

My rental is now officially designated a vacant residence because the landlord filled in the form he received saying ‘ZERO’ people live in that unit.

So I live in a ‘vacant’ apartment.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Thank you for your input, fake census worker.

Just me
Guest
Just me

“This how you know something desperate is going on in China’s economy”

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/china-january-currency-outflows-2017-2

Polozi Scheme
Guest
Polozi Scheme

A work permit “does not require you to work. It is permission to work, if you so choose,” he said.

“The gorilla in the closet, the real issue”, Kurland said, was whether or not a buyer was a tax resident of Canada, “reporting global income and property to CRA and paying taxes here.”

http://m.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2069712/vancouvers-foreign-buyer-tax-and-work-permit?utm_source&utm_medium&utm_campaign=SCMPSocialNewsfeed

Just me
Guest
Just me

He just repeated what we already established here. This is a lame loophole to allow back a bunch of buyers who have no intention to work and pay significant taxes here.

Christy Clark is taking us all for a ride.

Just me
Guest
Just me
“So, who gets an exemption? So, does the government plan to extend the exemption to post-grad work permit holders, or holders of open work permits? The Ministry of Finance was non-committal when asked those exact questions.” This is going to be a total shit-show. Christy Clark wants to bring the chinese money back into the market. Our main hope is that Xi Jinping stops it from ever arriving here. But the intentions of our government are now clear. They can be summed up in the following sentence: “Now that the additional tax has effectively cut back the excessive demand we were seeing last year, we are in a position to make the adjustments necessary to help ensure we can keep attracting highly skilled workers.” They are talking as if prices were back down to reasonable levels. They think this adjustment… Read more »
Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Many work permits require you to work for the company named on the permit. Lose or quit your job and you have 30 days to leave the country.

Just me
Guest
Just me

If Christy Clark lets students and wives in, it will be as if the tax had never been approved.

She knows it, and if we let her have her way, we deserve the inevitable consequences.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

not required for “open” work permits

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Right. That’s why I specifically didn’t say “all”.

Van real estate buff
Guest
Van real estate buff

VanRE Week in Review: https://youtu.be/uhy3v6H0qB8

paulb
Member
Active Member

New
110
Price Change
22
Sold
87

TI:7823

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

Ulsterman
Member
Reports from the rental house hunt. My wife has been diligently searching for a new rental house (5+ beds) in the North Burnaby area. Asking is in the $3000-$4800 region and the quality varies to a comical degree. We don’t have to be out until late summer, but the lack of supply is certainly concerning. In many cases after contacting the owner/agent, one discovers that you have no access to the garage and there’s a tenant on the basement. Many of the houses have been listed for several months but the asking rent stays the same. Many of the houses are empty and the agent informs me the owner is in China. Clearly they are not bothered by losing a few months rent. In 100% of the cases the owners have been Chinese or their agents have been Chinese. It’s… Read more »
Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

We got dominated by those fucks. They literally made their playground here at the all levels. Very sad and tragic…

oh la la
Guest
oh la la

We is who? The country has just 150 yrs history with the name “Canada”. It is an infant. You are nowhere close to call it belongs to you or your kind – whatever your kind “we” means to you. Probably you don’t even know where you came from. Scotland? Italy? Austria? Russian Siberia? or maybe from China, 10 generations ago or maybe from Middle East 15 generations ago. I bet you carry a mixed blood. So which one is your kind?

If you have taken someone’s land, be prepared to lose it to someone else. Life goes on with or without you.

Hiding behind your lap top of course you can say anything you want. I would suggest you bring up your hatred on youtube with you face shown.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

Sh*t. That’s not funny. I hope your wife isn’t withholding sex!!!

Ulsterman
Member

Shockingly she doesn’t blame me for our 2nd-class citizen renter status. She hates it, but doesn’t accuse me of spending too much time reading bear blogs in my tighty whiteys. It also helps she’s younger and makes a living playing in local bands and some solo gigs, so she’s still young at heart. Hopefully that answers your question!

Also, I do keep her somewhat calm by telling her that if this current housing correction doesn’t take prices down significantly, then we can use our investment portfolio to buy a Burnaby Mountain townhouse or maybe just move further afield and buy a house. So ultimately we do have options, but i do love my job and utilizing the local mountains, hence my desire to stay. but there will come a time….

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer
I would call a half dozen rental management companies and mid-sized real estate agencies. At this time of year, all that is left on CL etc. is the dogs — things that nobody wanted. Plenty of rental vacancies (particularly at the higher end) are never advertised, they are simply placed. When I was looking here way back in the day, I had an agent take me on a tour of unlisted properties. Tenants such as yourself are rare gems but having great credit and impeccable references doesn’t help you when you are browsing CL. You want to get the word out to as many people who could benefit from it as possible. (I made a one-page PDF describing my family and my finances.) That way, when the end of the school year gets close, and the good places are about… Read more »
Burnaby
Guest
Burnaby

You should make them an offer. Rents are not carved in stone. If the place is empty for months they are probably getting desperate but since they are going through an agent the agent will not make the first move. And if they are renting the place out then they must have to cover some type of mortgage. In my area of South Burnaby there are 5 empty houses for rent within a two block radius of my place. 4 bedrooms are asking $2500/month. There is a 5 bedroom with suite for $3100. All these houses are owned by “investors” (speculators). Wife and I looked a one of the 4 bedroom places back in Dec. and it was ok but still not rented in Feb and the owner phoned us in Jan to ask us if we were still interested.

Burnaby
Guest
Burnaby

I would also add that the reason these investors/speculators are asking astronomical rents is because they have astronomical mortgages. They are not buying with all cash as legend would have it because these are the second tier Chinese who can’t afford to speculate in Vancouver proper.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

It’s true that rents are not carved in stone, but the problem with paying a significantly lower rent than asked is that the owner is likely to see it as a stop-gap measure. Going forward, if surrounding rents rise, they will be keen to get you out and, even if rents do not rise, the owner may in an untenable situation as the mortgage payments are beyond what they can comfortably cover. If I was looking for a place for just one year, I would definitely make lowball offers. But for a long-term arrangement, you want to choose an owner who has their ducks in a row and can continue to provide the service for however long you want to use it.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

This is now the norm DT for the under boomer crowd.

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/roo/5996667698.html

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

WTF, is that shit legal? Safety issues? Is this transition to the 3rd world shitholles?

squeak
Member
squeak

So it seems.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

“People are living in garages with ten family members and paying close to NZ$400 for the privilege,” said Salesa.

It’s odd. I find two and three bedroom apartments and even small houses available around Aukland for under NZ$400 (this is weekly). Average for two bedrooms is around $500 in the city. The average weekly wage is about $1000. So for two average people, the average rent would be a quarter of their income.

Ten people is also a lot to put in a garage.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

NZ $2400 a month. About the same as here. So it’s pricey.

https://auckland.craigslist.org/apa/5962855178.html

No Money Down
Member
No Money Down

Furnished

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

It is pricey, but wages seem quite a bit higher. I guess it’s all a matter of what people are used to and expect. I know Kiwis consider prices to be very high.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle
Just me
Guest
Just me

Despite the latest attempts of Christy Clark and De Jong to bring back chinese buyers into our market, these buyers might nit have a lot of funds to spend:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-10/china-bitcoin-exchanges-halt-withdrawals-after-central-bank-talk

“China Bitcoin Exchanges Halt Withdrawals After Central Bank Talk”

Xi Jinping is my favorite person right now. Certainly a lot more linear than Christy and her band.

Best place on meth
Guest
Best place on meth

Don’t give that gangster piece of shit too much credit, he’s no different from our mop-headed piece of shit.

It’s all about holding on to power, the people can go fuck themselves.

Just me
Guest
Just me

This is the modus operandi. It applies to wine as much as to Vancouver RE.

“China’s Capital Controls Are Hitting Wine Lovers Where It Hurts”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-09/china-s-capital-controls-are-hitting-wine-lovers-where-it-hurts

“A lot of people in China suddenly have a different focus,” Tom Gearing, managing director at Cult Wines, which has £40 million ($50 million) of funds under administration, said in an interview. “They are now asking us questions like, ‘is it a good offshore investment?’ ‘is it a good way to put money into a physical, tangible asset?’ ‘is it linked to the yuan?’ and ‘is it correlated to financial markets?”’

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

$3.5B Massey bridge gets environmental nod from B.C. government
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/massey-bridge-approval-1.3975258

>>> just a couple more rubber stamps…

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

the latest from Ian Young…

Vancouver’s foreign buyer tax and the work-permit loophole ‘you could drive Highway 99 through’
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2069712/vancouvers-foreign-buyer-tax-and-work-permit

Peter
Guest
Peter

This is essentially lifting of the foreign buyers tax. Hearing rumours that it starts March 1st.

Peter
Guest
Peter

Pent up foreign demand going to cause a massive spike in prices with this low inventory.

Ulsterman
Member

The great unwashed voters will only remember their hero Christy Clark taxed those meanie foreigners 15%. They won’t pay attention to the work-permit loophole. It’s a brilliant pre-election maneuver by the Liberals.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Is Trump’s style ‘contagious’ in new tribal Twitterverse? Let’s hope not, say Canadian experts
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-premier-christy-clark-trump-style-contagious-politics-tribal-1.3974295

Just me
Guest
Just me

Just out on Bloomberg. We make the news again. The only person who thinks that is well is Christy Clark.

“Vancouver’s Empty Mansions Highlight Middle-Class Housing Woes”
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-10/vancouver-s-empty-mansions-highlight-middle-class-housing-woes

The number of residents on Vancouver’s west side — long favored by families and an easy commute to downtown — has fallen 3 percent since 2001, in contrast to 5 percent growth in population across the whole city, Yan said. The median single-family house can cost as much as C$4.9 million in that area — about 65 times Vancouver’s median household income. David Eby, a member of British Columbia’s legislative assembly, last year identified C$57.1 million worth of residences bought by students reporting no income in his west-side district of Point Grey.

Peter
Guest
Peter

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/census-counts-25502-unoccupied-homes-in-vancouver-more-than-double-the-estimate-by-city-hall

Looks like Oracle was right. Those 25502 unoccupied homes don’t include the temp residents living in them. Including students.

specuskeptic
Member

Thank you random poster who shows up today to support ChinaOne. #notasockpuppet

Just me
Guest
Just me
More news from Australia. “Don’t expect Chinese to keep underpinning property market” http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/wealth/dont-expect-chinese-to-keep-underpinning-property-market/news-story/2c5e75807d7a9c7bfb8bfebbfe48c9ba?nk=e2f5beae3aa5bab7ce13055c1825d401-1486751181 While $1 trillion of foreign exchange has flowed out from China over the past 18 months, in December that number fell to almost zero. That means no money was withdrawn, for example, to settle Australian residential purchases. Chinese buyers will continue having trouble settling global real estate purchases (think Australia, New Zealand and Canada) as banks are told they must balance their FX trades, with transactions as small as $US5000 ($6550) being scrutinised and currency conversion requests rejected, according to some commentators. The yuan has slid over the past 12 months to about 6.9 per US dollar. And as I have previously reported, investors including the hedge-fund manager Kyle Bass of Hayman Capital predict that the Chinese government will eventually have to undertake a steeper devaluation. To… Read more »
Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull
UBC in Crisis Mode
Guest

Lot buying continues in Van West yesterday:

1. 4519 BLENHEIM STREET, Dunbar,listed$2,498,000,assessed$2,255,900
2. 2735 W 5TH AVENUE, Kitsilano,listed$2,398,000,assessed$2,556,000
3. 4674 W 11TH AVENUE, Point Grey,listed$2,850,000,assessed$3,066,000

kabloona
Member
kabloona

‘The housing bubble has burst’: Economist warns market imbalances are threat to economy in long run
Garry Marr | February 10, 2017 1:49 PM ET

http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mortgages-real-estate/the-housing-bubble-has-burst-economist-warns-market-imbalances-threat-to-economy-in-long-run

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

Duh. No kidding. I wonder if this guy saw it coming or just had a look in the rear view mirror like Michael Campbell always does?

ginger
Guest
ginger

Boombust – Who is “this guy”?

Chad
Guest
Chad

Isn’t this written by the same person who predicted a 25 percent drop in 2015?

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