Friday Free-for-all! March 17th 2017

It’s the end of another week and that means it’s time for another Friday Free-for-all! 

This is our regular end of the week news round up and open topic discussion thread for the weekend. 

Here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:

blame politicians

house price correction all done?

mortgage insurance premiums 

what’s happening in calgary?

rate increase in canada thanks to US

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Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Tillerson says diplomacy with NKorea has ‘failed’; Pyongyang warns of war…

the picture alone in this article is worth the click.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20170317000859

Global
Guest
Global

Time to take out the rogue state North Korea and join the 2 Koreas. Then Establish military bases there to keep China in check. Eventually will have to go to war with China because of their aggression in South China Sea (illegal islands).

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

the world needs to stop appeasing china.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

If only there was some way to trick china and north korea into nuking each other.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

B.C.’s Diva of Deflection tosses obstacles in way of election finance reform
http://www.straight.com/news/882931/dermod-travis-bcs-diva-deflection-tosses-obstacles-way-election-finance-reform

>>> couldn’t say it any better myself…

Just me
Guest
Just me

This part of the article puts it bluntly.

One can almost imagine the meetings that must have taken place in Vancouver with party strategists, and maybe a few lobbyists, trying to come up with something they could announce that sounds good, but doesn’t really mean much.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
>>> a few more points i must cover. with regard to those changes to the FBT that were promised this week, well, it looks like we’re either going to witness some unsavoury news seep out late this afternoon/evening when everyone is stuck in traffic or out getting drunk on green artisan crafted micro brew OR a some sort of staged media event will be thrown together over the weekend. i’m leaning towards the former occurring and that the carefully crafted news announcement of earlier this week will be deemed to be proper and full disclosure of sorts in their eyes. translation: behind closed doors, in the dark of night, with little to no msm coverage, the FBT will for all intents and purposes be put to death by lethal injection just as the RCMP investigation into illegal donations will be… Read more »
Just me
Guest
Just me

Yes. It might be a late Friday small press disclosure. Killing it softly….

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

Once the FBT is done, we will have confirmed we are the worlds money laundering centre. Too bad. Vancouver was an ok place up to around 10 years ago.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Homeowners and baby-boomers are voting to keep the circus going. The know what Krusty Clark means (more mainland Chinese money and developer friendly policies) and they like it that way.

The only way to put a stop to this is to remove her and her Liberal caucus from office. Power corrupts, especially after 20 years with no interruptions.

Global
Guest
Global

If any other party gets to power, they should make real estate correct by 50%. Let this side be ‘corrupt’ as well.

Ray
Member
Ray

Scotiabank weighs in on Toronto and Vancouver with their analysis and some nice charts. They go out of their way to say that Toronto should *not* implement the Foreign Buyers Tax because its impact on Vancouver is not yet proven. For a logical economist this seems ridiculous to me. If they’re wrong, Toronto prices come down. If they’re right, Toronto gets some cash. Where’s the downside exactly to go out of your way to advocate *not* doing it? At least he got one thing right, address *speculation*. My preferred method is to increase interest rates, but I’m fine with taxing flips.

Options To Deal With The GTA Housing Market — Addressing Supply & Speculation More
Important Than Foreign Buyers
https://scotia.bluematrix.com/sellside/EmailDocViewer?encrypt=1c67dd89-c6b7-4a52-93a1-f1326973b0cd&mime=pdf

Just me
Guest
Just me

Every time someone in the industry (banks, mortgage providers, developers, real estate agents) denies the importance of foreign buyers and warns against taxing them, it is yet more proof that foreign buyers are important to drive the market higher.

If foreign buyers were irrelevant, these guys would not even waste their time dispelling their importance. The fact that they fight tooth and nail every time a FBT is discussed means that they are scared of it.

By the way, I am expecting Krusty of DeJong to release their changes to our own FBT this afternoon. They are waiting for later, as people will go out for Saint Patrick’s or spend time at home with their family. Releasing news on Fridays afternoon is a guarantee that fewer people will pay attention.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

He has a point, and yet misses the point. It is probably true that the FBT does not have a significant impact through the mechanism of dissuading foreigners, but it has an enormous impact through the mechanism of dissuading locals who are convinced that foreigners can be relied on as greater fools.

And, of course, he argues in favor of increasing stock because that would give them more opportunities to make loans.

Just me
Guest
Just me

You are missing the point that locals’ intention matter zilch without cash. And much of the cash in this market is not mobilized by locals.
But I guess there is no point in insisting with you (no pun intended).

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

Why does it matter what is the mechanism through which the FBT works, as long as it has some impact. I’m happy to see it influence locals and foreigners and IMO it has a strong effect on both.

Global
Guest
Global

The tax has been lifted.

Global
Guest
Global

And refunds to go with it.

specuskeptic
Member
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

In the tinfoil hat world, this should be of no interest, as corrupt communist officials and their children are not given provincial nominee visas.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

right, but exemption is also being extended to foreign nationals who obtained PR or citizenship status within ONE YEAR of purchase. this is not what was originally discussed

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Not really a big deal. That is not going to impact the probability of an offshore buyer pulling the trigger, although it might pull forward demand for a couple dozen houses over the next few years.

Under the hypothetical scenario in which the BFT had a big impact, these changes will have no significant effect. The tinfoil hat club imagined that the exemption would be given to hundreds of thousands of people. That’s not happening.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

i’m fairly certain this is just an interim solution to get her over the hump. obviously the optics involved in eliminating the tax entirely at this critical stage would be extremely poor. once the election is over, all bets are off

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

In what sense is it any kind of solution? How many provincial nominees do you think will buy?

Look, I hate Clark as much as the next guy, but the facts do not point to bad faith motives here. It’s more likely that this is a response to lobbying from the tech sector.

And while we are on the subject, you can be sure that Christy’s base wants the FBT removed outright. Hell, they probably want a FBB (foreign buyer bonus, where the provincial government gives foreign buyers 10% cash back). So what you are saying about after the election makes no sense.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

the tech worker angle is a red herring imho. as far as i can tell this re-opens door for foreign nationals to buy. no, they do not get FBT exemption upfront per se, but they can apply for a refund provided they can get PR status sorted out within 12 months of registering property transfer with land title office (which in theory could be many months after actual purchase is made)

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

But so what? You could always avoid the FBT if you are not a foreigner. Making it retroactive doesn’t change anything.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

My wife had to wait 7 years to get her residence. You can’t just land fresh off a boat, buy a home, and get your residence within a year to get a rebate.

In fact, I like this 1 year limitation. It means that foreign buyers who *must* have a home ASAP will pay the tax, and otherwise they will wait a few years to either become residents before buying.

Having gone through the process with my wife, I know for a fact that few people who are adverse to the tax will bank on their residency timing while buying, you just don’t have any clear idea exactly how long it might take.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

The processes for either take a very long time – close to a year. I bet anybody who avoids the tax via this avenue already had their application in prior to their purchase. Doing it the other way around would be unlikely to work out.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

buyers concerned about paperwork logjam will push out closing date as far as possible and maybe appease seller by fronting larger deposit. 12 month clock starts ticking on date transfer is registered with land title office, so after all is said and done you could have 18 – 24 months (or longer) to get affairs in order.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You are grasping at straws. Let it go.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Nonsense. Provincial nominees are exempted. That’s 6K people, most of whom cannot afford to buy.

myraandrews
Member
myraandrews

Why is the inventory so low in Vancouver and Toronto? With the new mortgage rules (requiring that you qualify at the bank’s posted rate) there must be many home owners who no longer qualify to live in the houses they currently own. So they can’t move up or make a lateral move. They have to stay put. Do you think this is having an impact?

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

I don’t think so. That would only impact very recent buyers with no equity. Anyone who has held a property for over two years would have so much equity that they will easily qualify.

myraandrews
Member
myraandrews

The equity would rise because their current home is worth a lot more but the prices for the houses they want to buy have also increased. So for the most part, they would be applying for a mortgage that is bigger than their current mortgage.

As long as they have a minimum of 20% down they don’t have to qualify at the posted rate (correct me if I am wrong about this) so they would be okay. But if not it will be tough for them to get a mortgage because they probably just squeaked in when they got their current mortgage when they could qualify at a much lower rate.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Let’s say they bought a $100 house with 5% down and a $95 mortgage. The house goes up by 30% and is now worth $130. They now have $35 in equity (imagining that they didn’t pay off any principle) and so to buy an identical house, which is now worth $130, they would have a 26% DP. Of course, I’m leaving out a lot of things, but most buyers have been in the home they are leaving for a lot longer than 2 years, so we can see that qualification would not be a problem.

myraandrews
Member
myraandrews

That makes sense.

Now do you think anyone might have increased their mortgages to pay for vacations or renovations prior to the new mortgage rules and now they are stuck because their equity is below 20%. Or if they want to buy a more expensive home they may not be able to afford it under the new rules.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

Your theory of lack of move up buyers is good, however, we have seen a lot of discussion that the First Time Buyer is the key to the market. If move up buyers are frozen out, all we need are FBT to withold from buying and the market will adjust accordingly.

All these new restrictions might be the reason why the higher end of the market has slowed down so much though as move up buyers just can’t “move up” as easily.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Yes, but those people would not be moving anyway. They have other priorities. The bottom line is that, while one or two move-up buyers may be impacted by the tighter rules, they will not have much of an impact on the market.

history
Guest
history

fuck home buying or renting. Live in your vehicle. Cocksucker landlords and leeches in the FIRE industries can choke on their debt love.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“BC Economy & Debt Crippling Younger Generations”, Better Dwelling

http://vancitycondoguide.com/generation-squeezed/

“According to the report, it now takes 18 years of full time work to save for a 20 percent down payment, that’s up from the so called tough days where it only took 8 years.

But who’s counting. Certainly not our politicians.

“Some people just have to get up and whine every day.” – Rich Coleman BC Housing Minister

“If you don’t want more debt “you don’t live in real world.” – Christy Clark”

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

When I started working a full time job in 1986 in Vancouver I managed to pay rent and still save up a DP of 40% and I was into a mortgaged house by 1992. I was making an average salary; not a big wage earner. NO WAY would that be even remotely possible nowadays. My mortgage rate was around 11%. And house prices were declining all through the 1990’s and didn’t start their price upswing until the early 2000’s.

CBM999
Guest
CBM999

http://globalnews.ca/news/3317751/some-foreign-buyers-get-break-from-vancouver-tax/

6,000 more wealthy Chinese Nationals who are designated “Provincial Nominees” (probably friends of Crispy Clark) will now be able to evade the foreign buyer’s tax!

I usually vote LIBERAL, but this time I’m going to vote NDP.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You should read up on the provincial nominee program. You will find it relaxing. (But vote NDP this time anyway.)

history
Guest
history

NDP is the traditional labour party in Canada, Those that vote Crispy need a mortgage handout, or hang out in bathouses, with lots of languid time to relax and post on VCI. Call up Soros from time to time, give a status, receive a Western Union deposit..

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Right. Every Provincial Nominee is from China.

Just me
Guest
Just me

No. Just the millionaire migrants.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

That’s not what PNP is about.

Just me
Guest
Just me

So, I was trying to understand what these changes to the FBT mean. It appears that the extension is only to the Provincial Nominee Program participants, as well as to people who qualify for permanent residence within a short period from buying.

A few doubts: (1) Is the tax removed if you are a nominee of other provinces? (2) Does this change in any way brings back into the market the thousand of offshore students that we have brought in (mostly from China)?

It appears the changes are not as dramatic as I feared. But since I have no trust in Krusty and company, I suspect the devil may be in the details. Can anyone confirm that these changes do not automatically open up the floodgates again, through some dark little twist?

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

it sounds to me like foreign buyers would be eligible for refund (not upfront exemption via PNP) if PR or resident status approved by deadline = (# days between purchase and closing) + 12 months

when all is said and done, how many foreign buyers will actually end up paying the tax???

if the Libs wanted to make a more significant dent they should simply ban sales to foreigners until they get PR or citizenship. end of discussion. this “shoot first, ask questions later” scheme is beyond laughable…

Just me
Guest
Just me

I suspect there is more than that. I know Christy and DeJong are up to no good. But I still cannot put my finger on it. I think it will become clear in due time, as always. These people are evil.

paulb
Member

New
121
Price Change
31
Sold
164

TI:8115

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

The low number of listings is an interesting development. I would have thought that there would be an immediate rush to the exits when prices did a 180. It seems like the opposite is true however and lower prices are making home owners sit on their hands waiting for prices to go back up. I suppose this makes sense though because most of them believe that house prices should only go up, so listing for less than they would have gotten a year ago is unacceptable. I think it’s extremely likely we’ll see the market almost completely seize up as prices and seller expectations diverge further. Because of this I would postulate the “flood” of listings may not come until prices are already in freefall.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer
It’s certainly weird. I also think your analysis of the current situation is right. There are also some other factors that could be involved and may impact the unwinding. 1) Prices have risen so far above incomes that people are sitting on vast sums of money, making them extremely resilient. For many of them, losing a half a million or a million on paper might not seem like a big deal. They may see themselves as being in a good position to weather any financial storm. 2) Because owning has become an ever more important part of their self-image as prices have risen, they are less willing to sell and rent or downsize. 3) People may have a lot borrowed against their houses. If they “cashed out” hundreds or thousands for renos and/or DPs for the kids, their financial plans… Read more »
Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I agree with you. All of these things ultimately circle back to historically low interest rates though. It’s the common denominator here. It’s not healthy to be able to get a mortgage for almost the same as the rate of inflation. It’s literally like getting free money.

If I had a large mortgage this chart would be giving me night sweats https://www.ratehub.ca/5-year-fixed-mortgage-rate-history . Imagine what the market would look like if we saw 10% 5-year fixed rates, not even a crazy number historically. I bet well over 50% of borrowers would be unable to service their debts.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Totally agree. Interest rates are the main culprit. And the CMHC, which should have a mandate to insure mortgages for up to four times average income and no more.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

Would love for CMHC to be mandated to 4x applicant’s proven local T4 income.

I wonder if the 3rd party lenders would fill in the gap or if that risk is too high. Might need BOC to mandate that across the industry instead of just with CMHC.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

There is no need to regulate the industry if they are fully exposed to the risk (or fully insured against it by a private insurer with no government support). The only regulation necessary in this regard is regulation that curbs excessive moral hazard. And that moral hazard is created by the CMHC.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I agree the CMHC is way past their original mandate and should be scaled down drastically…. like move 95% of mortgages off their books. There’s no proper price discovery when banks are incentivized to get anyone with a pulse a mortgage at the lowest rate possible since it’s backstopped by the taxpayer.

Sebastien
Guest
Sebastien

Anybody found worst?:

8375 10th Avenue, Burnaby
Dec 7:$1,380,000
Mar 6: $998,800
Change: – 381200.00 -28%

Vancouver Review
Guest
Vancouver Review

Mar 17, 2017 Daily Review Vancouver Real Estate Housing Bubble News https://youtu.be/WH1UQsyu124

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
I know everyone hates annecdotes, but I find this one interesting. I know an agent who informed me their foreign client was intending to buy a home. They went to 4 banks to ask for loans, and all 4 rejected the buyer, citing need for proof of income. Buyer was disgruntled, and paid in cash. I know some foreign buyer haters will now jump up and say “I told you so” about suitcases of cash, but the reason I find this interesting is that 4 banks rejected their loan request even when backed with huge downpayment (40%?). Since I believe that foreign buyers prefer to buy with loans to leverage their investments, I think if banks are issuing less of these loans we’ll see less action from foreign buyers. This is a good thing :).
Just me
Guest
Just me

I thought that foreign money was of little concern according to you. Are you seeing the light finally? Or is this just an anecdote with little or no relevance?

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
Uhh… you are confused. I am one of the strongest proponents on this blog that foreign money is a HUGE problem. I started raising this long before you ever showed up. The difference between your and my position is that I believe foreign money relies heavily on credit, and that locals are a huge part of the problem too. Foreign money adds extra pressure to what is already here, including psychological pressure. Last year I went to some 20+ open houses where every person looking to outbid me was speaking 100% north american accented english. Just for kicks I went to a few Point Grey open houses, including a $1.8M Duplex. Although this is far above my paygrade I wanted to see just how bad things were over there. Every person there was a local, speaking perfect English, and every… Read more »
Just me
Guest
Just me

I am left to wonder what open houses you attended last year. I was there, and I repeat: most attendants were either not local or very recent immigrants with poor command of the English language but much, much money.

As for inviting foreign capital to invest in things other than RE. It ain’t going to happen. For every dollar spent by the Chinese on other investments, therebare 3 dollars spent on bricks and mortar. They don’t trust anything else, they see homes as th only safe investment and theyvare happy to leave them empty. It is a form of insurance to them.

Chinese money accounts for way more than those imperfect stats produced by Christy Clark suggest.

Yunak
Member
Yunak
Just me
Guest
Just me

This is Christy Clark’s free money. Everything below 750k is eligible. You can borrow your 35 grand and leverage some more. Bang! Bidding wars in that price range.
With Christy’s compliments.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

I believe there are stats “available” (you’ll see them in news articles occasionally) about how many people have used this program.

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

Pretty sure this is lowincome housing that the people are trying to rent out to profit…

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/roo/6045708659.html

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Looks like a scam of some sort, anyway.

Buynow or Getlaidnever
Guest
Buynow or Getlaidnever
Buynow or Getlaidnever
Guest
Buynow or Getlaidnever

The property was sold on 01/Nov/2016 for $530,000.

https://evaluebc.bcassessment.ca/property.aspx?_oa=QTAwMDAwMThBTg==

YLTNboomerang
Member
I’ve been away from the blog for a month or so as a lot has been going on personally so here’s why: I’m done with Vancouver. The final straws were Trudeau’s new top tax rate and the potential change to capital gains next week. Liquidated all my assets to USD today to avoid any increased taxation in the new budget and in preparation of the move South (deemed disposition on departure anyway); we’re moving to Texas! I gave my notice today and head down in April, back in May to vote NDP, then the whole family cuts ties in June and our marginal tax rate drops from 48% to 28%. Oh yea, property tax and mortgage interest is tax deductible and $470K gets this: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/8935-Andante-Dr-Houston-TX-77040/28525674_zpid/ I’m going to enjoy watching from the sidelines like others who have departed but stay… Read more »
Just me
Guest
Just me

Hate to say it but…smart choice.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Enjoy it!

bestplaceonearth
Guest
bestplaceonearth

great – more room for someone else.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Who is going to rent out you twopence investment apartment if people leave?

bestplaceonearth
Guest
bestplaceonearth

thank you for your concern. just one less on my line up should I need a rental.

YLTNboomerang
Member

YTD 2017 I’ve paid $72K in income tax (big bonus year). Who is moving to replace me? Probably an astronaut family that is going to collect more benefits than pay taxes. Repeat that over and over and you have a very real problem.

bestplaceonearth
Guest
bestplaceonearth

you people always over-estimate yourself. it would not make a dent. remember the bears’ claim “people leave town in drove” ? how has that worked out?

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

You see how its working out, with school closures and business closures.

Just me
Guest
Just me

You people? The taxes of YLTNboomerang are paying for your doctor bills, your security bills and the clean pavements in front of your home.
What are you contributing? Sitting fat on real estate while Chinese buy it and make you rich?
People with your views are dangerous to society.

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

Oh my gosh, “I am irreplaceable” attitude is just sickening. You don’t think, one moved out, no one else moved in to take the place? Just like the employee thinks, if he quit, the employer has to shut down the business. People are always replaceable, no matter how good you are, just because, there are always someone better. Your narrowing thinking limits your ability to make a good decision, hence you will be posting at this blog and complaining how sucked it is for life. People with your view undo the good progress of society.

Just me
Guest
Just me

For a start I suggest you take those free ESL ckasses.
We the taxpayers subsiduze them for you, so they are free.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

If he is replaced by someone with your level of education, it certainly will be a blow to the company. But the point is that when qualified people leave a city for financial reasons, that weakens the economy. Our economic system is based on growth. It’s not good enough to maintain the same level, we have to improve.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

You clearly have no experience in management, recruitment, or business development.

Every smart business owner or manager knows that retaining good talent is critical, and the most efficient and best way to sustain productivity and success. There’s no way I’d approach the potential loss of a valued report or colleague with the words “people are always replaceable”. Do you realize all the hard and soft costs with recruiting, finding, onboarding, training, and integrating someone new is? You don’t just snap your fingers and replace YLTNboomerang.

Ask Newcommer how eager he is to lose his reliable staff and find new ones. Churn and turnover are the worst enemies of a strong and stable operation (be it a business, a city, a sports team, or just about anything).

YLTNboomerang
Member

My departure will not in itself make a noticeable impact but as more and more head for the exits it most definitely will make a difference. The taxes I personally pay each year are enough to employ a mid-level government employee so my walking just unfunded a job that will now need to be funded by debt further pushing down the loonie, driving inflation, and reducing your purchasing power.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

I love barbecue. Enjoy!

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

Priced out of Vancouver. I seem to recall some warnings of this happening….

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

It’s pretty obvious now, sellers are waiting for the election.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Why? How does that make sense?

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Can someone else please take this question?

My palm and face just made violent contact with each other rendering me unavailable for the time being.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Loosen that hat, man.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Nice evasion.

Just me
Guest
Just me

I concur. That is the most reasonable explanation. Things will be frozen until May 9.

Just me
Guest
Just me

http://vancouversun.com/business/local-business/big-liberal-donors-are-doing-big-business-with-the-b-c-government

Doing business with the B.C. government and at the same time donating money to political parties — those in power or those who hope to govern — is entirely legal in British Columbia.

Among the top 50 donors to the B.C. Liberals — who have collectively given more than $30 million in the past decade — more than half have received supplier payments or transfers from the B.C. government.

“Governments have faced this in every jurisdiction across Canada, and usually they come to their senses and actually decide that it doesn’t look good and they ban it.”

Just me
Guest
Just me

There is no denying that Chinese money always needs an outlet. Look at what all that trapped cash is doing.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-18/china-february-new-home-prices-rise-in-56-cities-vs-january-s-45

patriotz
Member

And still another… well you know:

A British Columbia management consultant we’ll call Lydia, 64, is considering retiring. Like other residents of the Lower Mainland, her assets are overweighted with property.

Downsizing her $3 million family home key to upsizing this woman’s retirement

Just me
Guest
Just me

Nicely fits the profile of the BC Libs voters. Her retirement is at stake, screw everyone else.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Just so mind-bogglingly stupid. Downsize and cash out 1M and then live off the returns? They are suggesting that a 65 year old retiree spend 2 M on a house. For the love of Pete, take all 3 M (3.6 when you include her savings), invest it conservatively, and have double your current income. You can rent where you want for the rest of your life.

Stupid McStupid Face also talks about the risk of losing out on another million dollars of appreciation but doesn’t even consider the possibility of the price going down by a million dollars.

And people pay for this guy’s advice.

Just me
Guest
Just me

He is not considering the hypothesis that prices are going down because they really don’t.
It would take some serious political will to have a sizable adjustment (meaning a drop of 30% or more). Sadly, that is not what people are voting for.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Economics will drive prices down, not politics.

Just me
Guest
Just me

It is nice to nurture your dreams.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

More importantly, with $3.6M cash and at 64 years old, who cares if you miss out on another million upside? At that age you want to optimize time while you are healthy and travel while you can. The downside has a bigger impact on Quality of Life for her than the upside, and you don’t want to ride out 10 years of downtrending prices.

$3.6M in conservative assets at 4% return generates $144k per year + OAS+CPP of $12k. You can live a glorious life and leave plenty for whatever you want to leave it for, or you can live like a king and burn it all up.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

The notion that someone with 3.6 M, in a society where the average household income is something like 76K, gets 3 out of 5 stars for retirement readiness is, sick. It’s the promotion of endless dissatisfaction when bountiful ease and comfort are right there!

It’s funny, the more I have the more realize how little I need. I’m a fan of mrmoneymustache.com and it certainly seems that many people in Vancouver would be happier if they learned what that guy knows. He obviously did invent the idea of living within your means and finding contentment with what you have, but he sells it well.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
Yes that’s a great site (I am not a regular reader there). Your appreciation of that site does explain a bit of your penchant for irreverent writing style ;). To be fair, Mr. Money Moustache is a touch extreme for most people. We can’t all live in trailers and grow our own vegetables or make our own toothpaste, nor should we all want to. However, the idea of living within your means, and counting your Net Worth as a multiple of years you can live without work are very useful life philosophies. I do like the mantra “Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without” without going to extremes. Certainly we can all indulge in personal hobbies, vices, and cravings while still living within our means. It’s why I wonder why Just Me paints a picture… Read more »
Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

You should drop by my trailer sometime and try my homemade toothpaste. It might change your mind.

specuskeptic
Member

“Powerful expectation dynamics” – Wow. Even Puffpost is using the word “Bubble”. Share wide and far – pierce that public consciousness…

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/03/17/toronto-one-percenters-priced-out-of-housing_n_15427692.html

Sebastien
Guest
Sebastien

What happened there?:

2623 E 29th Avenue, Vancouver
Oct 27:$2,850,000
Mar 1: $1,799,000
Change: – 1051000.00 -37%

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

It’s sold. Probably just games to spark a bidding war with that price.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Anyone knows the price at which it sold? Just curious to see whether there was in fact a bidding war. Volumes have gone up but prices did not follow suit so far (at least in the above 1.5 million range)

fomostyle
Guest
fomostyle

Richmond 1975 house. Sold late March for $4mill. LIsted again now for $7mill.

https://www.century21.ca/Property/BC/V7E_2H7/Richmond/12191_GILBERT_RD

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Will never happen in Vancouver under Krusty’s watch…
Chinese police chief Wang Jun Ren jailed for buying Australian real estate with corrupt money.
http://www.smh.com.au/world/chinese-police-chief-wang-jun-ren-jailed-for-buying-australian-real-estate-with-corrupt-money-20170317-gv0nz6.html

patriotz
Member

He was jailed in China for offenses in China. What would be different if he had bought the RE in BC?

Just me
Guest
Just me

I think that BubbleTea is simply saying that in BC it would quite a bit harder to ascertain the ownership structure. And even then, our current laws make it hard to retrieve the loot (see what happened with the case of Citic bank and the Chinese family with multiple homes under a numbered company, as reported by Christine Duhaime).

The key point in all this is that the laws in BC are, by chance or by design, such that corrupt Chinese millionaires (like this guy) can use our real estate to anonymously store their wealth.

And Christy Clark is quite happy about it: these “investors” help our economy, according to the BC Libs.

Krusty is giving them carte blanche to launder their money in BC.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Lock her up! Lock her up!

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Lock her up! And then do the same or worse yourself!

patriotz
Member

Everything the BC government knows about a property is on the title, which is public information. Also information about companies is public. What more do you think the BC government could do?

Just me
Guest
Just me

As the recent case popularized by the lawyer Christine Duhaime proved, the beneficial owner of a property in BC is not easy to determine. We had this conversation many times before, and many times you have come up with the same incomplete answer.

If it was as easy as you claim, Citic would have been able to recoup the money that was stolen by the Chinese family in question. They could not, because beneficial ownership was changed multiple times.

This is the kind of things that should be fixed by appropriate legislation. If there is a will, there is a way.
The problem is that Christy Clark has no will.

patriotz
Member

Fair enough but going back to the article, there’s no indication the Chinese conviction relied on any information from Oz in the first place. As we know if the Chinese want to convict someone they’ll just conjure up any “evidence” they need.

And again if anyone has any suggestions on how to improve transparency in RE ownership let’s hear it.

Just me
Guest
Just me
The impunity that Chinese money launderers enjoy in our province (and country) is predicated exactly on the argument you used. The Chinese government can fabricate evidence, hence we should leave them alone. That is setting the bar too low. Can you explain to me how a high ranking police officers of a formerly communist country with barely 20 years of development can amass enough cash to buy multiple luxury properties in Australia? I think we should let the Chinese government give us all the details they have about individual cases, then decide. This case was clear enough. If we don’t do this seriously, we will be swamped by money launderers. I personally don’t want to live in a country that gives harbor to thousand such individuals. I would rather pay an economic price (recession) than having to deal with such… Read more »
patriotz
Member

The accused confessed. You know what that means in China. Either he was tortured, or he was told he’d be executed if he didn’t confess.

The Chinese government can pursue civil suits against someone here according to our rules, and remember it’s much easier to get a civil judgment than a criminal conviction, but their criminal “justice” system merits no credibility here. I also think we should use our own civil forfeiture system, something which Christy seems reluctant to do.

I don’t have a problem with sending anyone back to Chinese if they’ve been convicted of a criminal offense in our courts.

Newcomer
Member
Newcomer

Civil forfeiture is the abrogation of the rule of law.

Just me
Guest
Just me

The bottom line is that we do…nothing!
These guys bring boatloads of cash and leverage it to buy up the city.
This is changing the social fabric of the city, as people accept that crime (with impunity) is the only way to get ahead.
Many locals benefits. Others bow their heads in fear of being labeled racist. A sad state of affairs.

Civil forfeiture should come with limits, but should be an available option. Of course Christy Clark would not even consider it.

Global
Guest
Global

You are the guy that tries to negotiate with the likes of YVR Shut it and Newcomer. Don’t you understand what they stand for?

You are also to blame with your lackadaisical responses to them.

They have hijacked this blog and admin is adamant it die soon.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Shut it already.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

die kristy, die!

specuskeptic
Member

You’ve promised to leave so do the one honourable thing left for you to do. (No. That’s not log out and log in again as one of the sockpuppets….)

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

We absolutely should ban ownership of residential property by opaque ownership entities. This is a 100% no brainer.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Only 17 years in jail, they’re getting soft. These kinds of crooks used to be executed.

I suppose they don’t want to use the death penalty anymore because everyone at the top is committing the same crimes as this guy.

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