Friday Free-for-all! September 22nd 2017

Are you ready for the weekend?

We are!

It’s Friday and that means it’s time for another Friday Free-for-all open topic discussion thread for the weekend.

What are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thoughts and anecdotes in the comments below and have an amazing weekend!

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Party on
Guest
Party on

The borrowing and spending binge by Canadian households, businesses and governments (all levels) continues unabated. Growing the debt in the economy significantly faster than the economy itself grows seems to have developed into a way of life in Canada.

Canadian total (household, business, and all levels of government) debt numbers as of the end of June, 2017

https://owecanada.blogspot.ca/2017/09/canadian-total-household-business-and_19.html

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Debt gluttony is a global trend, and it’s due to central bankers crashing interest rates to 5000 year lows. http://www.businessinsider.com/interest-rates-5000-year-history-2017-9

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

China criticizes S&P credit rating cut as ‘wrong decision’
https://app.tmxmoney.com/news/cpnews/article?locale=EN&newsid=i28291&mobile=false

Poor old China so hard done by.
It is only a ‘right decision’ if it benefits China and makes them look good.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Oh please, like US / Canada is any better when rating agency cut its debt rating outlook….

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Says Commie sympathizer Great-Leap-Forward guy: any criticism of China… BAD.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

You mean calling a spade a spade? Geez…this is why you morons are so far behind that even a 50% crash isn’t going to help you any. You can’t see what’s really going on through your tinted glasses with an extra help of tar sand coating.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

What are you blathering on about? You don’t make any sense.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

They deserved the downgrade. China cooks their books and is probably already at 0% real GDP growth. If not for the government funneling trillions into building ghost towns and massive subsidies for exporters, the house of cards would have fallen in on itself by now. Canada’s credit bubble is miniscule compared to the Chinese, they have a multi-generational debt problem on their hands now.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Yellen triggers plan to cut stimulus and avoid disaster: Don Pittis”, CBC

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yellen-fed-balance-sheet-1.4298385

“But as a result of the post-2008 bond-buying binge, somewhat confusingly called “quantitative easing,” the central bank has nearly $4.5 trillion US worth of bonds and mortgage-backed securities dammed up in its reservoir. Some economists worry such a vast lake of bonds is distorting the market and is in danger of distorting it more if it gets out suddenly.”

“Now Yellen and her team want to at least partially drain the reservoir. But they are anxious not to create a flood.”

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

There Never Was a Real Tulip Fever

A new movie sets its doomed entrepreneurs amidst 17th-century “tulipmania”—but historians of the phenomenon have their own bubble to burst

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/there-never-was-real-tulip-fever-180964915/

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Commissioned by the cryptocurrency and real estate cartels

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

That title is misleading. There was a tulip fever, but the economic devastation in the crash is overstated due to not everyone speculating on tulips. I’m sure if 70% of the population were speculating on tulips, just like 70% of Canadians that own houses and are thus “speculating” on housing, the tulip crash would have been worse.

SpacedOut
Guest
SpacedOut

I’m not sure I’d classify the entire 70% as speculating, but it would be nice to know the percentage of home owners with carrying costs of over 250x rent. That’s the segment of the market that drives any future downturn IMO. Starting with the subset carrying more than a 6:1 household debt/income ratio.

Amazing its gone on this long. I feel like it could easily have a few more years of legs, but its hard to imagine a scenario where the chickens don’t eventually come home to roost.

best place on earth
Guest
best place on earth

There is a new Robin Hood in town running for the Van city councilor. She called for tax the rich; and will have a protest at Chip Wilson’s house on Sat. Any of the free loaders here join her?
She did know that if it was not for the rich, the not-haves would have been worse off as the rich pay their shares of taxes to cover them. And the rich do work their asrses off to pay taxes too. Do we really want Robin Hood in city hall? Sure, the free loaders say so!

Joe Condo
Guest

Yeah, parking your money in a concrete box downtown and seeing it triple in value over a decade his really hard work.

best place on earth
Guest
best place on earth

triple in value, so what? if these owners don’t sell, nothing happens. if they sell and move up, the government collects more taxes including capital gains as for investment properties. It means more money to look after the haves-not. Why the bitching?
The freeloaders will never be satisfied. You hand them affordable units, they want free pizzas to come with it.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Taking other people’s money in the name of fairness is always easier than actually work and create real wealth and then giving away those wealth away to help other people. When I see these “activists” clamoring for fairness, 99% of the time I see busybody people who are too lazy to do the actual hard work, but still want to feel like they are saints.

Joe Easing
Guest
Joe Easing

“Economies grow because of hard work and innovation, not because of some magical asset inflation.”, Mark Carney, 2012.

Dave
Member

I always felt that way too. Except now I want the government to tax the people parking money here. I’m too lazy to go to China and make corrupt money like they did.

Joe Easing
Guest
Joe Easing

The freeloaders are the condo investors, who’s gains come from government created asset inflation – not a natural free market.

realist
Member
realist

“the government collects more taxes including capital gains as for investment properties.”

Regrettably, there is very little evidence of capital gains taxation of properties owned by private/amateur investors and landlords in the Lower Mainland. It is an understatement to refer to such tax evasion in the Lower Mainland as very widespread. This is one reason why SFH is such a highly desired money laundering machine. Commercial multi-family etc is another matter.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Blame the idiots who overpaid, or kick yourself for not identifying that Vancouver RE was cheap 10 years ago.

Joe Easing
Guest
Joe Easing

Blame the central bankers who pumped the world full of money artificially raising asset prices.

Blame the idiots who have no idea that this has happened, adding speculative mania to the mix.

And don’t feel sorry for the greatest fools who don’t understand that the contraction has now begun.

Dave
Member

Poloz deserves a lot of blame for cutting rates two years ago. That was world class dumb.

All three levels of government deserve blame too. The Feds for our stupid immigration policy of importing dirty money and the lack of a clue at Revenue Canada. The Province for encouraging the movement of dirty money and propping up the real estate industry. The Municipalities for preventing supply.

I make my living in the real estate business, but enough is enough already. We’ve taken this situation to absurd levels and it’s damaging to our society.

Joe Easing
Guest
Joe Easing

Hey, Poloz admitted this would happen back in 2015 when he cut rates.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/interest-rates/bank-of-canada-rate-announcement/article25514585/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

“The Bank of Canada acknowledged that lower rates could exacerbate record household debt levels and add fuel to overheated housing markets in cities such as Toronto and Vancouver. But Mr. Poloz said it’s a risk worth taking given the shock facing the economy.”

All this RE craziness just because oil prices shot down for a while. These are priorities I can’t understand.

Well, here we are now smack dab in the middle of ‘overheated’ and .. oh.. did Steve and Janet just say they’e putting the bus in reverse?

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Poloz panicked and made an amateur mistake. Simple as that.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I don’t see it as an amateur mistake, he just kicked the can down the road. The debt pain is coming, he’s just hoping it doesn’t blow up on his watch. He probably sees himself as an Alan Greenspan, getting to keep everything all nice and happy until he leaves and then WHAM, Canadian Ben Bernanke has to deal with the credit market collapsing. Carney only made it 5 years before he bailed so I’m sure Poloz will leave soon enough, then he gets to dump the big mess onto the next sucker.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

But why were they able to overpay? ..because of government insurance and government down payment assistance and government artificially low interest rates (savers penalized) = freeloaders
Plus many of the homeowners that are benefiting don’t pay any taxes at all other than their artificially low subsided property tax.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Not because of foreigners then?

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Damn right…if it weren’t for the rich, those moronic peon serfs would still be living in caves and mud huts. All societal progress is solely due to the hard work of the rich, especially capital owners which is why there should be no tax on capital or capital gains period.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

a perfect demonstration of why affordability won’t be solved.

instead of targeting the cause of the problem they target a guy who started an global company, paid his taxes, give a bunch of ppl jobs (i hear it was a shit place to work, but whatever) who also paid their taxes.

one side is united by profit, the other is unfocused and incapable of identifying the cause of their misery.

there is no hope. learn mandarin for your self and your family.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Don’t bother, China’s goose is cooked, demographically and economically. Mandarin is one of the most difficult languages for an english speaker to learn, so by the time you get good, it will be too late.

SpacedOut
Guest
SpacedOut

It’s a somewhat valid argument that might be better received if you didn’t present it like a douche bag. I know its more difficult to craft coherent and persuasive written thoughts, but it really does help you get your point across. Or,. just keep barfing garbage and vitriol all over the internet. Whatever works for you.

Joe Condo
Guest

Prepare yourselves accordingly:

“The everything bubble is ready to pop”

http://www.businessinsider.com/infographic-shows-how-close-we-could-be-to-an-economic-bubble-collapse-2017-9

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

All caused by credit bubble in China…everything bubble won’t pop until China pops.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. When we’re talking about asset bubbles that are globalized, there are a lot more triggers that can start the collapse. For example a full blown property collapse in Australia could cause Chinese to start liquidating their real estate assets in Australia, then China, then everywhere else. There’s no telling what could pop the China credit bubble.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Attorney General to investigate possible money laundering in Lower Mainland casinos:

http://www.news1130.com/2017/09/22/attorney-general-money-laundering-casinos/

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Attorney General David Eby has released a report written over a year ago about suspicious cash transactions at Lower Mainland casinos that he says the BC Liberals should have released in the public interest, but kept buried.
“River Rock staffs have fostered a culture accepting of large bulk cash transactions.”

BC Libs again failed to enforce money laundering laws…
Casinos should not accept cash over $10,000

Simple Solution
Member
Simple Solution

WOW…. is he going to comission a “study” to kill time till this all blows over? Im sure we should hear the cries of “racism” shortly….

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Just more evidence that the Liberals were a bunch of greedy dirtbags. They should just change their party name back to Social Credit. Why a massively right-wing party can call themselves Liberals and get away with it is a real testament to how dumb the voting public can be. They’re about as Liberal as Stephen Harper.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

It appears NDP maybe doing something about the money laundering issues in casinos.
http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/big-cash-flowing-into-river-rock-casino-sparks-money-laundering-probe
Next, turn your attention to housing.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Auditor MNP LLP explains reasons for its report, noting that the enforcement branch “compiled a document which identified approximately $13.5 million in $20 bills being accepted in River Rock in July 2015.”

Interesting Eby starts with a casino that takes in $13.5M over a year. Most of that is probably legitimate. Gamblers do use cash. Why would he bother with this when one high end RE transaction equals this amount. This is like CRA auditing waiters tips. This is just a charade so Eby can say he is doing something when he leaves the big fish alone to flip houses and launder billions not a few million at best.

Dave
Member

Good point. That’s like one West Vancouver house or a couple on the westside of Vancouver.

Road Warrior
Guest
Road Warrior

Uuuummmm…….it was $13.5M in one month.

It was impossible to me legitimate money, because no one can legally get that much out of communist Red China.

YVR
Guest
YVR

The $13.5 M was not one person. It was a total in the casino. China’s laws on money transfers are irrelevant anyway. We do see $13.5M in a single real estate transactions that are actually doing harm. People gambling is voluntary taxation. I say bring it on. Look at the big stuff that is doing the harm.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

it was $13.5M in one month…
and only at that one casino.

Simple Solution
Member
Simple Solution

Nothing more than a charade to distract from the fact they have NO intention of fulfilling their promisses

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

The NDP are too focused right now on digging up dirt on the Liberals and winning political points for the next election. What will win the next election is policies that legitimately lower cost of living for the middle and lower classes in the province. Everything short of that is just window dressing.

Burnaby Bear
Guest
Burnaby Bear

The issues identified in MNP’s report happened while the B.C. Liberal government, and Finance Minister Mike de Jong, were responsible for gambling in B.C.
At least Eby appears to be doing something.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

From the Breaker: BC Liberals suppressed report on suspected money-laundering at B.C.’s biggest casino
http://thebreaker.news/news/casino-money-laundering/
I hope someone is going to jail!

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

This is the economic end game. When there is engineered asset inflation with fiat currencies and people have the get rich mentality for doing nothing then we are doomed.

Road Warrior
Guest
Road Warrior

True ‘dat !!!

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I don’t believe it’s “engineered” asset inflation. It seems most likely that in a race to the bottom on interest rates, central bankers have inadvertently inflated massive asset bubbles. They just didn’t care because rock bottom interest rates were making their exports cheaper, and it jacked up their GDP growth numbers. Then they all patted themselves on the back while the elephant in the room grew and grew. Keynesian theory can be very dangerous when it’s used this way.

patriotz
Member

Relying on low interest rates to stimulate the economy is monetarist, not Keynesian. Keynesian theory is to increase government spending.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Bitter-Face-Off-Between-Keynesian-Economics-and-Monetarism-The-1905030

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver
That’s not correct actually. Advocating for government spending is just one stanchion of Keynesian theory, the fiscal policy part, and not what I’m talking about here. What I was alluding to is Keynesian economics promotes COUNTER-cyclical policies, monetary and fiscal. For example, during the Great Depression, Keynes recommended a reduction in interest rates (monetary policy), and government investment in infrastructure (fiscal policy). In conclusion, Keynesian and Monetarist ideals are not diametrically opposed to each other, there is some tangible overlap to what they advocate for. The distinction is, from what I understand, Monetarists only believe the monetary policy side matters, and fiscal policy need not be used to disrupt the business cycle. Keynesians believe that both central banks and central governments need to work together in a counter-cyclical way to smooth out the peaks and valleys economies will naturally experience… Read more »
patriotz
Member

” Monetarists only believe the monetary policy side matters, and fiscal policy need not be used to disrupt the business cycle. ”

That’s the whole point. Relying on super-low interest rates alone because governments are unwilling to increase spending is Monetarism pure and simple. So don’t call it “Keynesian theory”.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Just because central bankers only have levers that affect monetary policy doesn’t mean they’re monetarists. In our case it means they control the monetary side of a Keynesian government slant. The infrastructure spending Trudeau was doing while the interest rates are at rock bottom should have convinced you they’re in lock-step with Keynesian ideals.

kabloona
Member
kabloona

‘Like the perfect storm’: An FP Investigation into the events that took Home Capital to the brink”

http://business.financialpost.com/news/inside-the-rise-and-fall-of-home-capital

“More than two weeks before the public would get the first inkling of problems at Home Capital Group Inc., the alternative mortgage lender found itself under heightened scrutiny — and not for the first time — from Canada’s top banking regulator.

In a letter dated June 23, 2015 and addressed to the company’s founder and then chief executive Gerald Soloway, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions detailed the concerns that were building around the company.

“Significant corporate governance issues, AML (anti-money laundering) concerns and internal control breakdowns pertaining to practices in underwriting residential mortgages” had been identified at Home Trust, Home Capital’s fully owned subsidiary, OSFI wrote in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by the Financial Post….”

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Something tells me the Home Capital issue isn’t over. The last crisis with them wasn’t related to mortgage stress it was investor fear over OSC dropping the hammer on the company. What happens to them when the fraudulent or marginal loans start defaulting when mortgage rates rise? I think bad things are ahead for this company. If they’re smart they’ll split off the good loans into a new company and sell the garbage to anyone that will buy it. Canadian bankers think every loan is solid gold though so I bet they’ll keep on truckin’.

Bear echo chamber #7
Guest
Bear echo chamber #7

IF. If the fraudulent loans default. Not when.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver
I will concede this is speculation, so I will correct myself by saying “What happens to them if the scenario occurs I consider to be highly likely, and the fraudulent or marginal loans start defaulting …”. To elaborate I think if you’re going to assume the default rate won’t rise, you have to be of the opinion that the rising rate environment will be stopping in the very near future. Every time the rates tick higher we’re getting closer to large swathes of borrowers not being able to make payments. I personally give the chances of rates going sideways or down almost no chance at this point. It sounds likely we’ll get another .25% increase before the end of 2017. The Federal Reserve is on a huge rate hike kick and the BoC almost always follows their example. So what… Read more »
paulb
Member
Active Member

New
146
Price Change
55
Sold
129
TI:10082

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

ostritch
Member
ostritch

Holy See. Inventory doesn’t go up. It’s a west coast phenomenon.

NDP
Guest
NDP

The NDP would just like to announce to you suckers that we will work on the housing file in a few years. The low end has gone up 25% since the election. Sorry suckers.

Oh.. WE will look into money laundering at ONE casino. Hahahah

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Is that what your sources told you, Oracle?

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Maybe wait longer than 2 months into their taking power before you assume they’re not going to do anything to fix housing. The Liberals spent 16 years inflating our housing bubble, it will take longer than 2 months for the NDP to deflate it.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Are you serious? You think something is going to be done now??

Every day that goes by means less and less chance AND watered down policies. Even you know that.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I don’t know what will happen, I just think you’re being premature. When they release their new housing policy, THEN depnding on what’s in it we can start bashing them properly. Until then it’s just speculation and belly-aching that they didn’t release it the day they took office. The actual grunt work in crafting the legislation is way more than telling voters what you plan on putting in it.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

B.C. lawyer suspended over $25 million in offshore transactions
A B.C. lawyer with nearly 50 years experience has been suspended for six months after allowing more than $25 million in offshore money into Canada through his own trust account.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/donald-gurney-lawyer-suspended-1.4281461?cmp=rss&utm_content=bufferd7b5e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Dear David Eby, this matter is more urgent than casino laundering.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

A 6 month suspension for essentially laundering $25 million? That’s ridiculous. Luckily this crap-bag is 74 and will probably be dead soon. He’s also an idiot because he only got $25k in fees for this much money. If I decided I wanted to be a total scumbag I would have demanded at least 5% in fees for this shifty service. $1.25 million would be enough to soothe my feelings of guilt. You’d still know you’re a terrible person, but you’d be a RICH terrible person.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“He’s also an idiot because he only got $25k in fees for this much money. ”

What a fool. He even set up the trust account in his name. A good lawyer would have taken 20% and not gotten caught. I guess you get what you pay for.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Yeah what idiot would hire this lawyer. He can’t even launder money properly.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“Dear David Eby, this matter is more urgent than casino laundering.”

Exactly. Not only is it much larger, more damaging and probably easier to stop, but with casinos at least the government gets a massive cut through losses in the casino. One can only wonder why Eby and the NDP who promised to go after the large scale easy to target housing money laundering goes after the mom and pop small time casino stuff nobody really cares about and leaves housing alone. Casino money laundering was not even mentioned prior to the election by the NDP. Strange it is top priority now with everything housing related not even talked about.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Because they lied to get elected. Some people here still in denial. Almost half year since election soon.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

“this matter is more urgent than casino laundering”

All criminal activity by mainland chinese is an urgent matter and equally important, there is so much of it on so many levels and it all ties together from the moment they submit those fraudulent documents to our immigration authorities.

We need large scale investigations into every scam they’ve been perpetrating in large numbers, from real estate scams to money laundering to tax evasion, to immigration fraud to illegal hotels and so on and so on and so on…..everything right down to poaching.

We’ve been invaded by an enormous organized crime ring that makes the mafia of a century ago look like amateurs.

realist
Member
realist

To quote a wise observer:
Every country has its mafia, but in Canada, the mafia has a country.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I think Coal Harbor would be our local equivalent. Mostly dead and empty. I still feel the most effective solution is giving squatters more rights. If squatters could get ownership of a vacant property after squatting there for a few years, rich people would think twice about buying a house just to leave it empty. If you get the police and social workers involved, you can have them start canvassing for vacant properties, and fill them with the homeless.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Stealing beats earning, right?

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Just ask any Norwegian, they’ll agree with that statement

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

That’s what the sinomen all say.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I wouldn’t say stealing; “non-consensual philanthropy” sounds nicer.

VanRant
Member
VanRant

Norwegian bans buyers of new condos from reselling within three years in some cities as it tries to cool market
http://www.scmp.com/property/article/2112546/new-homeowners-cant-resell-three-years-under-new-rules-five-chinese-cities
If Vancouver does that, then it will be brand as a racist.

Madashell
Guest

Norway also bans Canadians from buying real estates in their country. If Canada bans the Norwegian from buying in Canada, we will be called racist. I really think our politician should have a spine and protect Canada from a foreign invasion.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

There is no such ban.

Vots Mograi
Guest

They are being clever, trying to be ‘non-racist’ by referring to chinese as ‘norwegians’. Do let us know if you are able to buy real estate in China though, because that will prove that they are being racists.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Another race baiting scumbag surfaces.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Yes, foreigners can buy real estate in China.

wow...
Guest
wow...

China calls for understanding of Myanmar’s needs as Myanmar conducts ethnic cleansing.

Violent incidents in Myanmar’s Rakhine state are unacceptable and there should be understanding of the Myanmar government’s efforts to protect social stability, Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi told his Indonesian counterpart, state media said.

More than 400,000 Muslim Rohingya have fled across the border to Bangladesh following a counter-insurgency offensive by Myanmar’s army in the wake of militant attacks on security forces. U.N. officials have described Myanmar’s strategy as “ethnic cleansing”.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-myanmar-rohingya-china/china-calls-for-understanding-of-myanmars-need-to-protect-stability-idUSKCN1BV0JO

Diadora
Guest

Remember, China (under CCP) is still a communist totalitarian regime who banns freedom of speech and free vote. A country who has murdered tens of millions of its citizens and still organ harvest from prisoner consciences.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/?utm_term=.fad398986aa3

Madashell
Guest

Meanwhile Onni is flogging Vancouver Condos first in Asia before Vancouver because of time differences.
Come on David Eby, enough is enough! Housing for Canadians is a human rights issue. STOP foreign speculation and money laundering!

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Onni ???? et al…

I think that a lot of these bigger developers should be subject to closer scrutiny, as it is not a stretch to say they their business model involves some dubious partners.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

re: WESTBANK….

This is apparently THE biggest developer in Vancouver….
Interesting background…

Started by Ian Gillespie in 1992..married Stephanie Dong, niece of of developer Robert H. Lee.
Partnered with Hong Kong based Kuok Group ( who own South China Morning Post )

Robert H Lee…..missing link?
According to Wiki…Lee went to UBC, graduating in 1956.
He subsequently began his real estate empire, working with Tong Louie and David Lam

HERE is the clincher..
Lee got a big break in 1960’s..when Communist China made attempts to take over Hong Kong..leading to a mass exodus of
Hong Kong immigrant to Vancouver…MANY OF WHOM WERE ADVISED TO CONTACT LEE BECAUSE HE COULD SPEAK THEIR LANGUAGE.

BACK TO WESTBANK……..they are being audited by CRA because of their many pre- sales….aka flips.

Madashell
Guest

International speculators are gambling on Vancouver’s real estate market without having to pay the 15% foreign buyer tax by investing in subprime mortgage lenders, who in turn offer high-interest mortgages to Canadians to buy homes.
Wealthy investors from China have poured millions of dollars into Gentai Capital Corporation, who claim to control a $215 million dollar mortgage portfolio through Genesis Mortgage Investment Corporation, the Richmond-based lender’s disclosure documents show.
“Available evidence suggests that these lenders account for the majority of unregulated lenders and, in terms of value, the bulk of subprime lending in Canada,” according to CMHC.
https://thinkpol.ca/2017/09/21/international-speculators-play-vancouvers-real-estate-market-through-subprime-mortgage-lenders-avoiding-foreign-buyer-tax/

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I don’t see any possible consequence of investing in subprime lenders. I’m sure marginal Canadians are more than able to pay their debts in a continually rising rate environment. These Chinese investors are extremely intelligent in their investment decisions and we should all follow their example. I plan on buying a $2 million McMansion on a busy street in Richmond as soon as Home Capital approves my sub-prime loan.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Is this even legal? I mean, can Asian investors bankroll Vancouver mortgages without regulation and with no regard of legal limits on money transfers across countries?
Or is it yet another case of lax enforcement?

patriotz
Member

Of course Canadian corporations are regulated on raising funds through the bond and stock markets. But if it’s legal for them to raise money domestically, it’s also legal for them to raise money internationally – with some exceptions which apply to takeovers of really large firms. If the government in some foreign country wants to limit its own people from doing this, it’s up to them.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Re casino’s and report.

Agreed that $ 13 million noted in the report is small in comparison to the millions involved in RE….
However, Local Gov’ts get a cut of these funds.
The problem is they become addicted to these funds for capital projects and often are not prepared for a downturn.

City of Richmond dedicated over $50 Million of casino towards to white elephant Olympic Oval …and has used these funds for other capital projects…YET it raises taxes each year?

The point is..if there was no casino funds…would they have the ability for these capital projects, because this casino revenue is at minimum “seed “money that obligates taxpayers to be the funder of last resort.

Why not referndums….apparently if they don’t have to borrow the money ??? they can ??? WTF….which leads into a whole other topic.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

RE : Alan Greenspan.

Not sure if this is old news …but Greenspans Phd thesis was apparently kept secret for years… but decades ago he forsesaw the economy manouevered into a housing bubble..and he left the Fed before this became known.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

You mean this one? http://www.barrons.com/articles/SB120917419049046805

I hadn’t read it but it makes sense he wouldn’t have wanted this thesis to get out. It’s quotes like this that make me think he knew damn well it was a bubble and bound to collapse: “There is no perpetual motion machine which generates an ever-rising path for the prices of homes.” .

Madashell
Guest

More on Onni sale: Vancouver developer Onni is pre-selling the upcoming 1335 Howe condominium at a Hong Kong fair for prices “cheaper than if bought in Canada,” while boasting about pricing ordinary Canadians out of the housing market
“Every buyer who has successfully purchased the onni project at a fair this weekend has a special discount, which is cheaper than buying in Canada,” the Facebook page for the event reads.
https://thinkpol.ca/2017/09/23/vancouver-developer-pre-sells-condos-for-cheaper-than-in-canada-at-hong-kong-fair-and-boasts-of-pricing-ordinary-canadians-out-of-the-housing-market/

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I wonder if there are grounds for a lawsuit there. I’m not a lawyer, but it seems like they’re breaking some sort of antitrust law. I don’t know why a company would have an incentive to give overseas people a cheaper price. Maybe Onni is run by Chinese and they’re racist against Canadians…

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Onni is one of the developers in the De Cotiis family group..Pinnacle is another..
Interesting that many of the major developers are of Italian descent…must have something to do with concrete work???

I doubt what they are doing is “illegal”…I interpret them as admitting that offshore pre-sales are the hottest market…and the locals get the leftovers…if any. Why anyone would enter into a pre-sale is beyond me..moreso as the market seems prime to crash. Pre sale is apparently a practice imported from Asia…

Buy a used or relatively new unit makes more sense to me

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Pre-sales are like the difference in prices between wholesale and retail pricing. Buy at a discount because it’s not built yet.

patriotz
Member

” I don’t know why a company would have an incentive to give overseas people a cheaper price. ”

Cheaper than what? Are they actually offering the same units at the same time for a lower price in HK than in Vancouver? Or is this just marketing BS? They’re probably not subject to any truth in advertising rules in HK.

Joe Condo
Guest

No business would sell an item to one person for less, when they can sell to another for higher.

This is obviously a marketing gimmick.

And it seems to work, as it fooled some on both sides of the Pacific.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

It’s a mistranslation, as I understand it. Nothing to see here.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

But that’s ok, right, because Hong Kong isn’t China?

Madashell
Guest

Last time I check, Hong Kong is a city of CHINA.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Sarcasm is not your strong suit, I see.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Is geography yours?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Jesus Christ, you still don’t see the sarcasm after I pointed it out to you?

Just me
Guest
Just me

Byelection candidate wants $174-million ‘mansion tax’ to fund housing for poor

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/mansion-tax-proposal

I would vote for this in a heartbeat.

Just me
Guest
Just me
University of B.C. economist Thomas Davidoff said Swanson’s tax would primarily affect homeowners who bring money from outside of Vancouver into the city, and is particularly beneficial to residents. “It’s very hard to find anything undesirable about raising taxes on high-value Vancouver property,” he said. “Obviously, it’s bad for the rich guys.” Davidoff drew a comparison between a homeowner living in a $5-million mansion, declaring a poverty income and paying $20,000 a year in property tax but no income tax, and a tech worker making $200,000 a year and renting but paying $60,000 in income tax. “The idea that somebody sitting in a $5 million property, not working, ought to pay way less tax than somebody renting and working, making $200,000, doesn’t make sense,” he said. Davidoff said the revenues generated by a mansion tax could mean tax breaks for… Read more »
Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

“Politicians don’t like to irritate the kind of people who live in $5 million to $10 million homes”

Why not? They’re only 1% of voters and probably much less than that considering how many of them are not even locals.

Oh wait, these were the people who showered the BC Libs with money, I forgot.

Well, those days are over.

patriotz
Member

CoV has no power to impose such a tax. Now I don’t think it’s such a bad idea, but I think people running for city council ought to propose things that the City can actually follow through on.

The provincial government does, and the NDP actually proposed something similar, and voters should expect them to follow through on it.

Just me
Guest
Just me

If the NDP put a steeply proportional tax on land and homes they would clinch my vote ad infinitum.

patriotz
Member

The NDP actually proposed this when they were in government 20 years ago and backed off after protests from homeowners. It’s not just about your vote or my vote, unfortunately.

bestplaceonearth
Guest
bestplaceonearth

just wondering, if the freeloaders get what they want, will they find jobs to maintain it, or they just demand for more?

history
Guest
history

“The thing that always struck me is how much the morality of debt—that anyone in debt has only themselves to blame, that deadbeats are contemptible—stubbornly refuses to die. Even now, when the situation is largely engineered by government policy, the first impulse of pundits and other popular moralists is invariably to assume the real problem must, somehow, be a bunch of lazy freeloaders, living beyond their means.”

https://renegadeinc.com/accounting-error-spells-chaos-for-global-economy/

The debt pigs looking for a way out of the pigpen, now that it starts to dry up.

Joe Condo
Guest

The home owning freeloaders, subsidized by government, will not create the jobs require to maintain the asset bubble, and the whole thing will eventually collapse.

And when that happens, as history has shown, they will demand more… in the form of bailouts from the government.

NDP
Guest
NDP

Any bets that David Eby is now set for life???

Long lines outside a presale in Richmond today. All on NDP’s watch.

Did you think this wold happen on May 9th? Suckers.

Prices rocketing higher on low end.

And btw, Greens silent to.

Confirms the thesis that the backrooms of all BC parties are now infiltrated by developers.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

With those prices rocketing higher on the low end, I would think your sock puppets should be out at open houses this weekend. Right, Oracle?

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

What pre-sale was that? Do tell.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased
Re: JEAN SWANSON AND MANSION TAX. This is another example of failed leadership by gov’t and its wannabees. Swanson wants to target Chip Wilson and other elites. Why? ..and what will it achieve? This whole mess can be blamed on all 3 levels of Gov’t, not the citizens. The Feds effectively left the borders wide open to foreign invasion..not via military per se… “via’ the All Wars are Bankers Wars” premise..but via the ultimate surrender of sovereignty…economic war via fiat currency . Just because its “bloodless” does not mean the same end result. Swanson, if elected, will simply be another” eat the rich” councillor The City of Vancouver vacancy tax has proven to be a joke….the costs are approaching the revenue stream. If, Swanson plan is actually implimented….the accrued funds will simply sit in some account for years. The cost… Read more »
Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

GEORGIA STRAIGHT is reporting that developer Westbank will be building a 39 story condo project on the site of 2 existing condo buildings..one built in 1990..11 floors/11 units. ..the other built in 1980..13 floors/12 units..located on Alberni st.

What does this imply?
If one unit per floor..likely hi end.

My understanding of the strata act is one only needs 80% of the strata to approve sale of the entire strata to a developer.
I am curious what the value of each condo unit is…but are we entering an era whereby in the search for development land…this may be the latest trend.

Do the units depreciate more quickly..or is the land in hyper appreciation mode.?

YVR
Guest
YVR
1684 Alberni Street is called The Lord Stanley. It is listed as a condo hotel with nightly rentals. Probably one owner for the building and the short term rentals are likely illegal and about to get shutdown by the CoV after operating illegally for 20 years. I assume this building has one owner. 1668 Alberni Street is only 11 condo units. A google search indicted the Penthouse which is 2 floors and roof deck sold for $1.1M in 2014. That would be the most expensive unit by far. The other units are only 1 floor and no roof deck. For a developer to buy out all 11 owners it wouldn’t have cost much even if they offered way over market value for the individual units. This is a pretty easy land assembly. The new building is going to be 39… Read more »
patriotz
Member

“The NDP said they are going to make developers build condos for locals”

That’s not in their election platform. What’s your source?

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased
Whether the NDP said it or not is irrelevant. ..Reality can be a bitch. Reminds me of the wildfire season…man was seriously humbled by natural forces. Prior to the offshore invasion ie pre1986…we had some form of domestic autonomy in our gov’t and more importantly RE. IMHO this was Canada..especially BC’s Waterloo. Surely the Gov’ts and their experts/lobbyists foresaw the impact, which us humble peons can call a sellout. Pre 1986 we had various forms of housing to address domestic needs..co-ops , MURBS etc. Anyone with 1/2 a brain can realize the situation is out of control..exacerbated by ignorant politicians and their hollow promises. With land costs and capital costs to build social housing, we are talking millions to perhaps accomodate a few hundred…??? Most Developers have zero interest in building social housing or incorporating it into their developments..they tend… Read more »
YVR
Guest
YVR

Eby brought this up many times.

“A B.C. NDP government would crack down on the absentee speculators driving up pricing in our housing market,” Eby said. “We’ll end the practice of rich developers buying access to government. And we’ll kick off a rental housing construction boom, building housing for seniors, for workers, and students.”

https://www.straight.com/news/891561/ndp-mla-david-eby-promises-homes-will-be-built-seniors-workers-and-students

YVR
Guest
YVR

That was before the election of course. Things quickly changed.

A two-per-cent tax on speculative real-estate investment in B.C. that was a key part of the NDP’s election platform may not be a sure thing, says the party’s spokesman for housing.

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/ndp-softens-position-on-speculative-real-estate-tax?utm_term=Autofeed&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#link_time=1497569879

YVR
Guest
YVR

June 1, 2017 (4 months ago). Still waiting for the quick act.

An NDP government supported by the Greens would act quickly to cool British Columbia’s hot real estate market by creating more affordable housing and cracking down on speculators and tax evaders, the parties say.

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/ndp-greens-seek-ways-to-cool-british-columbias-housing-market/article35185394/?ref=http://www.theglobeandmail.com&

YVR
Guest
YVR

NDP would expand B.C.’s foreign buyer tax March 28, 2017
Retroactive 2% tax would cover all B.C. homes owned by those not paying Canadian income tax

If you think the BC Liberals got tough on foreign buyers last year, get ready for an even rougher ride for foreign nationals buying B.C. homes if the BC NDP wins the May 9 provincial election

https://www.biv.com/article/2017/3/ndp-would-expand-bcs-foreign-buyer-tax/

YVR
Guest
YVR

Metro Vancouver home sales reached near-record numbers for the month of May — and a local politician says the spike in numbers is coming before a potential NDP-Green Party government can bring in additional measures to cool the market. The party’s housing spokesperson, David Eby, feels those loopholes are around presale condos. “The issue with presale condos is twofold, one is that they are exempt from the foreign buyer’s tax, the second problem is that if you are buying and selling presale condos you don’t have to pay the property transfer tax.”

http://www.news1130.com/2017/06/02/hot-housing-market-presents-presale-condo-conundrum/

patriotz
Member

When did the NDP say “they are going to make developers build condos for locals”? Back you what you said, not something else.

YVR
Guest
YVR

David Eby:

And we’ll kick off a rental housing construction boom, building housing for seniors, for workers, and students.

Who is going to kick off the boom and build all this housing? Does Horgan swing a hammer?

Joe Condo
Guest
Joe Condo

No, Horgan doesn’t swing a hammer, and neither do developers. Developers contract construction companies to build housing, as do arms of the government like BC Housing.

So, the statement ‘kicking off a rental construction boom”, doesn’t imply “forcing developers to build condos”. First – he’s talking rental not condos. Second, no mention of who’s going to develop it. It could easily be developed by the government, as BC Housing already does this. Just costs $.

YVR
Guest
YVR
LOL. When do you expect the “boom”to be kicked off and where will the money come from to acquire the land and build the housing for all the “seniors, workers, and students”? If the government does it all and pays for it all as you suggest it will cost more for them to build you a place than it would for you to just pay for it from a developer. You pay for it either way. There is no free lunch because the government does it. There is no money in the budget for this. The only way for it to be remotely possible is for developers to be forced into it. Like the City of Vancouver is doing with adding rental stock to condo developments. Of course none of this is going to happen under the NDP so it… Read more »
Joe Condo
Guest
Joe Condo

I don’t expect a boom. You quoted Eby – not me.

I still see no mention of your claim that “the NDP said they are going to make developers build condos for locals”” Rentals are not condos.

I would like to see that statement, if true.

You seem to like deflecting. Maybe by ‘condo’ you meant rental. Just admit it – no big deal.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Eby made that statement in many interviews. You do the research if you want an exact quote. You are trying to split hairs because you were sucked into voting for the NDP.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“Rentals are not condos.”

Yes they can be. There are many condos being built in Vancouver which part of the building (still condos owned by the developer) is designated as a rental. In fact one of the buildings being torn down is a condo building and is 100% rented.
http://www.lordstanley.com/

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