Vancouver condo presales, locals to get first crack

The Mayor is said to be drafting a motion that will give local buyers first chance to buy crack condos:

Mayor Gregor Robertson will introduce a motion to give local residents first crack at pre-sale condo sales Tuesday during a Vancouver city council meeting.

The motion asks city staff to draft a policy framework as part of the city’s “Housing Reset” plan.

Critics of the real estate industry have raised concerns about how the increasingly speculative pre-sale market is pushing up prices in both the pre-sale and resale market, and is preventing local residents from buying.

Presumably this will help to end the homeless problem in Vancouver by giving locals easier access to condo presales.

Read the full article here.

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Yikes
Guest
Yikes

Cracking of the market, things turning sour quickly. Oracle gonna run outa hot air to keep this bubble alfloat

SpacedOut
Guest
SpacedOut

don’t say his name stupid. He’ll show up.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

He’ll keep showing up until the bubble collapses then you’ll never hear from him again.

Madashell
Guest
Madashell

Must listen. Sam Cooper on Twitter on casino money laundering.
https://omny.fm/shows/the-jon-mccomb-show/underground-banks-secret-hand-shakes
Heads will roll if the NDP/RCMP have a spine.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I haven’t seen any NDP spine yet, but the RCMP have some teeth. They will likely drop the hammer if there’s a hammer to be dropped. We could see a lot of houses seized as proceeds of crime, in Richmond especially.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

The Liberal’s ass is handed to the NDP on a platter. Hope they do not drop it.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Drop it? They’re figuring out ways to copy it and pad their foundations. Why else the delay in election promises? Whoever pays them the biggest bribes gets their wish.

So far developers and Taxis have already paid up.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

so heads won’t roll…

Dude Chilling
Guest
Dude Chilling

Spring 2016 was the top.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Not for condos and townhouses.

paulb
Member
Active Member

New
252
Price Change
70
Sold
202
TI:9867

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

Jon
Guest
Jon

What would prevent using someone locally as a proxy?

Dude Chilling
Guest
Dude Chilling

Trust for one.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Yeah some people are doing it, but there’s no guarantee they won’t just retain ownership and tell the wealthy investor to go pound sand. Then you’re out $1 million +.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

local proxy used to lockup presales would almost certainly be a relative or close associate. what happens between then and closing time is whole different matter. would assignments be restricted or not? if assignment occurs, who is to say transfer is not done at MSRP + $1 to stay off CRA’s radar.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

friendship and family ties are very strong in chinese culture. westerners can’t really comprehend i. when you come from a culture where kids tell their parents to f off without consequences, money is a taboo subject, and people who have been friends for decades get separate bills at restaurants you simply can’t comprehend it.

there are companies setup that hook up people with fake jobs and help them do immigration fraud. all that is illegal but it’s safe because in a shame based culture neither side wants to lose face by going back on their word.

canadians are having a very hard time realizing that people in other countries do things differently… and that it might be more effective for getting ahead in society.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

A Major reason banks agreed to this is because their profits will be going up after these changes. When yo do a renewal after jan 1st, banks are going to play hardball with rates. They won’t give you a deal and their algorithms will let them know how much money you make. They will dare you to try to move lenders on renewal and face the stress test.

Thats what this is really about. Screwing locals with mortgages.

What about the foreign $$??

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

and the looks on your faces when prices don’t drop after Jan 1st….priceless..

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Have you started replying to your own posts so you can find someone that agrees with you?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

FFS add something useful in your posts. Look at mine for guidance moron.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Timelines:

RiverRock casino(current structure) opened in 2004..
……..the same year Richmond took on the $100 million Olympic oval…
…..which Burnaby had first dibs on…but turned down realizing it was a white elephant
…but John Furlong …shitting bricks…called Richmond CAO George Duncan about the availability of 30 acres of Land in North West Richmond
…and Richmond(useless) Council on THE last day for Council to vote (JULY 2014) before summer break and peoples minds attuned elsewhere..votes for the OVAL in blank cheque mode…also rezones surrounding lands to as high density as possible= equivalent to printing money…as they needed casino funds..at minimum $50 million….from RiverRock “10%”cut to Local Govt’s

If ever a major and all encompassing investigation from A to Z was warranted ..this is it.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

there have been all sorts of shenanigans with respect to BC Place, Pavco, the new convention centre, new $600M stadium roof, development of surrounding lands, parq casino etc too…lots of wishy washy money sloshing around, no questions ever answered

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Motion to give residents priority for pre-sale homes approved in Vancouver
http://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-priority-pre-sale-homes-plan-approved-october-2017

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Rezoning of Steveston’s waterfront subject of contentious public hearing
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/steveston-rezoning-2017-1.4358332

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Correction to previous post

Richmond Council voted for Richmond Olympic Oval at end of JULY 2004…..(not 2014)
=================================================================================
In addition..IMHO..the cesspool of corruption is so deep/Far/wide…NOTHING will happen..as if they even dared.(.other than token court cases)……..the economy would unwind at speed of light…it would be far more brutal than any OSFI ,BoC etc. braking measures.

Al Capone was allegedly taken down on” Income Tax” indiscretions…which was probably a token prosecution…but IMHO what we have now exceeds orders of magnitude and thus makes Capone look like a choir boy.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

A question for the smart people on this blog:

Let’s say I have a mortgage of $400,000 on a house appraised at $1 million.

And my income now is $79,000 (would not qualify in coming stress test for $400k mortgage).

And say I want to take out $250,000 from the equity in my home. New mortgage will be $650K. Will I qualify if I am buying a condo who’s rent offset will increase my income 1:1.

Many people who own in Vancouver are currently buying condos this way.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

“Zhang…w/ 5 Cdns, 2 people from Florida & New Jersey man, were indicted in North Dakota for conspiracy to import..drugs fr Canada & China”
http://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/2115812/two-chinese-nationals-made-tonnes-fentanyl-sold-it?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=referral
Connect the dots… Drug. Casino. Money Laundering. High price Real Estate.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

the fentanyl crisis is HUGE and underreported health emergency and it’s directly linked to China. the powers that be don’t want to talk about this.

us based global corporations, hollywood, national and local politicians especially in canada, real estate especially in vancouver are all blinded by dollar signs.

eventually the problem will grow so big it can’t be ignored. of course by then it will be too late, just as it’s too late for vancouver.

Road Warrior
Guest
Road Warrior

This motion will be ineffective.

Elebody know. somebory who buy thlee.

Unless you dig down into the economics of each purchaser there’s no way to track it, and to follow funds. Too much effort.

There is a ton of tax collectible files out there right now and nothing is being done, so I’d imagine this will be a dead end also.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

The new stress test WILL NOT APPLY TO FOREIGN STUDENTS?WORK PERMIT HOLDERS as they have no credit history here yet thus don’t require income verification. These new rule changes are to get more money out of locals.

Wow. CIBC came out and said it.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

What does credit history have to do with income verification? I’ll tell you – nothing.

MarKoz
Member
Active Member

The impact of the new OSFI rules coming January 1. If only the provincial government would apply similar rules to credit unions…
https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/personal-finance/household-finances/ten-ways-the-new-mortgage-rules-will-shake-up-the-lending-market/article36628214/

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Will not happen. Boards of credit unions tight nit with NDP.

Dave
Member

“The impact of the new stress test requirement will be to lower the purchasing power of households by up to 20 per cent. Like past tightening of mortgage regulations, we anticipate that the market impact will be sharp but temporary. In the past, we’ve seen home sales decline in the three to nine months following the implementation of tighter mortgage lending standards, with the severity of the impact fading within one year. However, these new regulations impact a larger pool of mortgages and so the impact could be more significant than in the past,” said Cameron Muir, BCREA chief economist

Dave
Member
I am noticing that the tone of real estate insiders is starting to shift. Most now accept that price declines are coming. This is a significant shift from where we were six months ago and even two months ago. In August I said the tone had changed to the expectation that price appreciation will now be small to negligible, but won’t go down. Now, the tone is, we expect it to go down, but only by a small amount. It will be a few more months for the next shift which will be, this will be a minor temporary correction. I think the wild card is the flow of Chinese money. If Trump puts trade sanctions on China, it’s possible they will pull back capital outflows to prop up domestic investment and spending. That could speed up a correction here… Read more »
Oracle
Guest
Oracle

People on garth’s blog are so stupid that it make me wanna puke. They think the new mortgage changes are a game changer. LMAO. Every few months there is a game changer change to them. ahahaha

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Mainland China polluting our waters and food supply? Too much “medical” use to juice production rates and poisoning our water?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/pacific-oysters-recalled-due-to-toxin-causing-paralytic-shellfish-poisoning-1.4358203

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

All the landlords are rubbing their hands in glee….happy eviction notices bears! You might be forced out of your moldy basements into a rooming house. But at least sunlight! Do wonders for your attitude.

history
Guest
history

i can show anyone here how to oive in a vehicle for $300 per month. Dine out several times per month. It’s easy, free wifi

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Bathrooms are overrated!

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

30 days for residents of Vancouver, another 60 days for Metro region residents. So fucking easy to get around and basically toothless. That’s assuming the lazy pigs at city hall working their 2 hours a day of semi-productive work can actually create a proposal before the next civic election.

All it means is that developers will change their VIP sale contracts to be conditional on availability to get the bridge financing for the official sales, wait 3 months and then voila, all units sold at 3 months + 1 day. Will probably rope in a few local buyers who think they are getting a deal too.

history
Guest
history

i agree it’s stupid.
condos are for global speculation, vehicles are for living local

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

I know several people in the industry and if you told them to wait “3 months” to get any sales from time of the project launch you’ll be hearing screams.

Firstly, not a single one of the sales people in these projects get paid a salary, they get paid on commissions that come upon completion of the project, yet they have to work long hours preparing for a launch. I imagine developers are pretty frustrated by these changes, while a no-nothing Oracle laughs them off.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

NDP says

Thanks to the posters here for letting us off the hook. You say prices are going to decline with these mortgage changes so we will do nothing then. No closing FBT loopholes or 2% tax.

Are people on this blog really that stupid? What happens if prices don’t decline? You’ve got to keep the pressure on the NDP. Unbelievable.

Dave
Member
The funny thing is doing nothing will actually be better than what the Liberals would have done. In the past, the Liberals would respond to any tightening on rules from the CMHC to prop up the market. I think they would have done the same this time around had they been in power. But, the NDP won’t actively do anything, so the mortgage changes will actually have an effect this time. I’m not suggesting people shouldn’t keep the pressure on. They should. The flow of foreign capital is the problem. It’s not going to be easy to unwind all that because we’ve built an economy around it. The tentacles are deep. While a potential for lower prices might be a good thing, it’s still not enough because it won’t stop the main problem of foreign capital inflows. Making real estate… Read more »
YVR
Guest
YVR

Wait and see what the NDP do. I think the foreign buyers tax will be cut within 6 months. We will also see the first time buyers program expanded.

Dave
Member

LOL. Of course the first time buyer plan will be expanded. The only thing the NDP will dare to do is help push real estate demand. They will not undermine the market no matter what. They are still of the belief that all they need are a few talking points and this is low hanging fruit.

They won’t do all the things Eby knows very well should be done unless people show up with pitchforks.

Dave
Member

I suggest people act like Eby is the Housing Minister. If you send email or mail to comment on policy, address it to David Eby, Housing Minister. It would show the NDP that they can’t hide on this file.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

“history” is right
..condos are for global speculation….

IMHO, we’ve(ie BC) been selling out to offshore investors since Expo 86…
The banksters ,, CMHC , etc. ripped a page from the US housing market playbook and liberalized credit to allow Locals to compete.

LOCAL Condo buyers were seriously sucked into supporting the condo market under all sorts of false pretences, in that it was more “green” to live in a strata, (when in fact if one crunches the numbers these units contribute a huge amount of ” GHG”….more on that later.)

Basic point is sucked in Locals effectively cheered on rampant development, thus masking the offshore buyers who control and manipulate the market…which is” global speculation”.

Rates
Guest
Rates

Foreign students and housewives exempt from stress tests. Just need 35% down. Looks like new rules aimed at locals only.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/7741ip/cibc_giving_out_mortgages_to_international/

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Everybody is exempt from the stress test right now. It hasn’t come into force yet.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

Essentially locust (eg. student, housewife, casino-man) can’t be technically stress tested. They don’t have major stress receptors developed well enough except those endemic receptors responsible for detecting scamming and leaching opportunities.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Nope. Stress tests apply to everyone. The photo in the redit post is over a year old. HAM must prove income regardless of downpayment.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ajme55enger/status/920389277128695808

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Oracle, you promised to leave – not create more sock puppets.

Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Maybe trumpeted “stress test” ain’t gonna happen
…they are simply bluffing to test the waters…as I submit that while this market is greatly inflated…a crash has more dire consequences and no one wants to get tarred and feathered ..as the mob can get real ugly.

stagnate
Guest
stagnate

where was this stress test ten or even twenty years ago? and Gregor stop playing politics, you could have done something about housing years ago but didn’t bother

Dave
Member

Vision Vancouver has done well for themselves with the current situation. They aren’t going to bite the hand that’s fed them, so all he can and will do is play politics.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Of course Vision have done well with cab drivers and developers. The NDP want their cut now. Anyone notice their policies and broken promisses are indentical? If you want to know what the NDP WILL do just look at what Vision HAS done.

Dave
Member

Vision and NDP are one and the same. The NDP signed up for the same benefit plan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr9_GfeoCjk

Ask and you shall receive.

I’m not sure what Marc Cohodes is playing for because I haven’t paid attention to him, but if he’s trying to take the market down, this is one of the pillars IMO. Show the public why they shouldn’t trust the politicians and bureaucrats and the house of cards will fall. Information asymmetry is worth hundreds of millions, if not billions.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“Vision and NDP are one and the same.”

I know that but you see the same people around here who criticize Vision for their policies and track record and then vote and support the NDP with identical polices. The definition of insanity. Geoff Meggs as chief of staff should have made that crystal clear. So far the NDP have matched Vision 100% on policy and broken promises.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

People here are happy now with the stress tests so they don’t care if NDP does nothing /S. Houses are going to be going for 50 cents on the dollar in a few months.

We will see what happens in the next few months. But be prepared to be surprised when prices don’t budge. Misinformation = Surprises.

patriotz
Member

“Anyone notice their policies and broken promisses are indentical?”

How on earth can a provincial government and a city council have “indentical” policies when their jurisdictions are so different? Even in some cases where they might be able to take a similar position, such as proportional representation, they don’t.

YVR
Guest
YVR

How about Uber and housing?

patriotz
Member

“where was this stress test ten or even twenty years ago? ”

Interest rates were falling back then. There was the odd blip up a percent or two, but that doesn’t make much difference in the payments when the base rate was double digits. As well, back then buyers remembered the super high rates of the early 1980’s and were more cautious and had larger down payments, as opposed to those today who think super low rates will last forever.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite
Oracle is out to spew his disinformation again. Let’s recount and refute all of them: 1) Oracle stated that the OSFI B20 rules would be “watered down”. In fact they were made stronger: as a response to industry criticism that B20 would push borrowers to get shorter loans which will have lower qualifying rules, they amended the policy to state that borrowers must be tested at the greater of the BOC 5 year rate or the contract rate+2%. The current BOC 5 year benchmark rate is 4.89%, so no amount of rate discounting by banks will save anyone from a minimum 4.89% stress test. This is a huge point. 2) Oracle is saying that foreigners are exempt from OSFI rules. This is incorrect. To quote straight from OSFI’s policy: “At a minimum, the qualifying rate for all uninsured mortgages should… Read more »
Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Then I guess be prepared to buy houses 50 cents on the dollar.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

There is no way this can be true since it contradicts Oracle’s sources?! Death, taxes and Oracle’s sources…

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Can anyone confirm under which circumstances renewals will be stress tested?

For example, suppose I have carried a mortgage for 5 years with the Royal Scotia Bank of Commerce and it’s time for me to renew for another 5 years.

Do I get stress-tested under the new rules?

And what happens if I fail the stress test on my renewal?

Are my choices then to find an alternative lender or have a firesale? Or am I “grandfathered”?

This must be wishful thinking on my part because if every mortgage in Vancouver gets stress tested over the next 5 years, it will lead to a meltdown more powerful than a thousand suns.

Dave
Member

Ya, meltdown time. I heard a banker say a lot of our customers won’t qualify… we know what their incomes are. Trust me on this.

Going to a good old time if you enjoy watching a show. It’s going to hurt my bottom line, so I’ll make sure to enjoy the price of admission. I’m a glass half full kind of guy and a lot of people are about to have half glasses.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
the renewal itself is basically a rubber stamp but the rate you get will depend on where the market may be at that time. if you switch banks all bets are off. honestly i think your insurance co is more likely to subject its clients to regular (and more and more stringent) stress tests. i have had many people tell me that getting insurance for properties in various locations around the province is getting more difficult and expensive particularly for vacation properties that are not always occupied. many insurance co’s wont even touch them now. without insurance none of the above issues would even come into play as the banks would automatically reject the application. and to those who think they are clever and fudge and/or go cheap on their insurance (ie. as it pertains to general conditions, coverage, usage… Read more »
Egg Hunt
Guest
Egg Hunt

Yes, insurance co is more strict these days. One case, owner has to visit the suite every two weeks and make sure no major changes since contracted.
I confirmed this is to visit inside the tenanted suite, not to confirm the building is there from outside.
this is pretty much impossible to do, and good excuse for insurance co to deny claim.
Btw, if strata unit, individual home insurance is not mandatory to obtain mortgage.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

every two weeks seems like a stretch. i am thinking that landlord is just using this as an excuse to keep tabs on their tenants. this said, the insurance co’s will deny claim for owners of properties that were vacant at time of incident when in fact they were not supposed to be or owner claimed otherwise. other issues arise when owner stipulated property was to be owner occupied for a whole host of reasons, then proceeded to insure as such only to wind up using house as a long or short term rental.

YVR
Guest
YVR

“which circumstances renewals will be stress tested?”

If you switch lenders or want to increase the mortgage. A simple renewal will not be stress tested.

But the bank knows your income (or can ask for it) which lets them know if you have the ability to switch lenders so that will be a factor in the rate you are offered. For example does a HAM housewife get a good rate going forward? I doubt it. They get the posted rate at best.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

the mortgage advisers working at the banks (still) have a vested interest in presenting their client’s applications in the best possible light. if needed those HAM housewives, students, farmers, consultants, contractors, tour guides, hotel operators, plastic surgeons and pharmaceutical technicians and can now have one of those fake job boiler room operations “act” as their employer now in addition to providing the standard tax planning, legal and foreign exchange services. always a step ahead of authorities and regulators…

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

There’s no need to speculate on this point. An article in the news (I forget which) specified that only when changing institutions will you get stress tested.

I think this will be very interesting because it means that institutions don’t have to compete anymore to retain the marginal buyer’s mortgage: those buyers will have to accept whatever rates they’re given at time of renewal (within reason of course).

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

This should be good for bank stocks.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Oh, here’s another one for you Einstein.

Uninsured mortgages can be stress tested with 35 year amortizations. 35 yr amortizations are about to make a comeback. There is your loophole.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

you are wrong. the little guys will be squashed, people with means (ie. bags of unaccounted for cash but no financial history) and a few connections can easily solve this by forging immigration, employment and tax docs. the fees charged can be offset by what is saved from the FBT and then some…

YVR
Guest
YVR

“I am very confident that even foreign buyers will be affected by this.”

Looks like it. Foreign buyers have lots of options to purchase property other than Canada. They will take the path of least resistance. In the past that was Canada. Not anymore.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

your user name is “BEAR Vancouverite” and you’re worried about someone else’s predictions?

lol.

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