Flipper sues buyer who sold at a loss

Here’s a Vancouver story if ever we saw one: A Flipper is suing a buyer who lost half a million dollars selling their condo at a loss.

The industry insider who tipped us off feels that this will end up being a nightmare situation for both Collins and Schomaker.

“When the buyer finds out that the property is now in the middle of a lawsuit, they will walk away and the sale will fall through,” they told ThinkPol. “Prices in West Vancouver keep falling, and seller will be lucky to even get $2 million in 2018. I expect both the flipper and the eventual buyer to lose a lot of money.”

The insider blamed the real estate industry’s unethical practices for putting many working Canadians into a tough financial situations.

“The sad part for me is ordinary Canadians are falling prey to number manipulation by the industry trying to keep up the perception real estate prices can only go up,” the whistleblower said. “The amount of deception, corruption and outright fraud in the industry is appalling and there is so much secrecy around the process of purchase and sale that the public is kept in the dark on just about every aspect of it.”

Read the full sordid tale over at ThinkPol.

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Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Where’s SIDA ???

(oh..sorry to hear that..hope LocustLand lets him outi n 25 years.)

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

He’s making preparations to celebrate Mao’s birthday with his friends, Gregor and Kerry. Red scarves will be exchanged as per usual.

Just 7 more days!!! So exciting!!!

oncebittwiceshy
Guest
oncebittwiceshy

Just Me: “I wish sellers were more reasonable and started slashing prices by more than the customary 5%.”
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Oh, this seller was not being reasonable, buds. He was bailing, bailing, bailing. OSFI legislation is coming and he saw the writing on the wall.
The assessment shows us that he took over $400,000 loss on this flip.

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/QTAwMDAzWFpENw==

Sales History (last 3 years)

22-Feb-2016 $1,225,000

Just me
Guest
Just me

A heartwarming story, if ever there was one. Thanks for sharing it. Bring more as you have them.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

I would love to see more examples of prices going down. If people have any please share them. Things look pretty flat to me.

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

Go to My Realty Check. Not “flat” at all.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?
This was on the comment board. Can anyone verify it? There you go, your response says it all. Realtors will always tell you that eventually the value of your house will go up blah blah blah. I can tell you there is no way you are up $250k if you bought last year anywhere in metro vancouver. Prob down $250k. I buy flip and build 6-9 properties a year and i can tell you 2018 it not going to be good. A lot of builders that i know are panicking and trying to get out but no new house are selling, they are begging. I dont know how the real estate board comes up with their numbers bu i can tell you that their is hardly anyone at open house anymore. Standard lots in east van were selling for $1.5-$1.6m… Read more »
Lost...but not leased
Guest
Lost...but not leased

Simply watch the skies over Port Mann and Alex Fraser bridges.

If flying carpets start to crash and burn on the East Side(Surrey)…this may have foreign locusts hiding in trunks of German made cars in Oakridge etc area..

Suggest people “short” curry and dim sum stocks.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Great find. Which board was this on? And does the poster appear genuine?
If so, it would be great. Land prices going down is what this city needs badly, to restore sanity going forward. And to attract productive, hardworking immigrants, rather than your garden variety of greedy mainland China “investors”.

CRA221
Guest
CRA221

Two people presumably of European descent playing the house flipping game trying to suck in a mainlander.

Notice all the 8’s in Katie’s attempted flip?

Just me
Guest
Just me

Yes. It is clear they were targeting mainland China buyers. As that money has become thinner on the ground, loads of aspiring local speculators are finding themselves in serious trouble. And they fully deserve to be in trouble. Trying to score huge money without producing anything of value at all.

oncebittwiceshy
Guest
oncebittwiceshy

Would you take another flipper who is already losing after costs … if it sells that is.
http://blurealty.com/r2228014-2355-e-41st-avenue
2355 E 41st Avenue, Vancouver
$999,000

https://www.bcassessment.ca/Property/Info/RDAwMDBaRzhGMw==
Sales History (last 3 years)
12-Jan-2017 $961,990

Sales history on this home built last year.

2355 E 41st Avenue, Vancouver
Nov 29:$1,198,000
Dec 12: $999,000
Change: – 199000.00 -17%

CRA221
Guest
CRA221

SFH less than $1M? Never thought I’d see the day again.

Maybe low for a bidding war? But you don’t need 20% down at this price point 🙂

oncebittwiceshy
Guest
oncebittwiceshy

Then you better have a great income with the new stress test coming. This smacks more of an “investor” doing his damnedest to get out before January. When they’re willing to take a loss you know they are seeing the trouble down the line. Lol.

Dave
Member

It’s not a SFH… it’s a townhouse more or less.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

If you’re gonna cherry pick data, can you at least find something on a decent street?

history
Guest
history

http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-movement-explained-by-one-equation-fundstrat-tom-lee-metcalf-law-network-effect-2017-10

‘Metcalfe’s law says the value of a network is proportional to the square of the number of users on the network’

So, if the network of vehicle dwellers increase… hmmm.. rubbing my jaw here..

history
Guest
history

https://youtu.be/cUgSpEQlTMY

Martin Armstrong Interview, “the Chinese parking of money in RE” about 17:45 minute

Interesting analogy, ‘parking of money’ .. like, as if the money is Vehicle in a Temporary fixed state.
I know that feeling.. being parked, having to move along soon…

history
Guest
history

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-12-17/china-should-let-its-migrant-workers-roam-free

The story doesnt mention NAFTA, but the Snivel Savant Negotiators stink is all over it.

UBC in crisis mode
Guest

Now on market for $2,888,800
http://www.realtylink.org/prop_search/Detail.cfm?areatitle=&ARPK=&ComID=&agentid=&MLS=R2189004&rowc=1&rowp=1&BCD=GV&imdp=9&RSPP=5&AIDL=21&SRTB=P_Price&ERTA=False&MNAGE=0&MXAGE=200&MNBT=0&MNBD=0&PTYTID=3&MNPRC=2000000&MXPRC=4000000&SCTP=RS

Sale Date
August 14, 2012
Sale Price
$1,638,000

Sale Date
May 12, 2009
Sale Price
$1,798,000

Sale Date
August 23, 2007
Sale Price
$1,722,750

Laibach
Member
Laibach

Vancouver special, a shitload of 8s and Chinese bimbo realtor. How bloody boring is this? Time for all of that shit to fuck off for once and all.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

This is perfect the those impoverished students or low income housewives with no visible means of support. But is there a place to park the Mercedes?

kabloona
Member
kabloona

A half-duplex…..ha-ha-ha! Not even a whole house for almost 3 million balloons….

😉

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Foreign homeownership less than 5% in Vancouver, Toronto: StatCan
https://globalnews.ca/news/3924481/foreign-homebuyers-5-vancouver-toronto-statcan/

>>> for your daily chuckle…

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Haha ya, just like the “official” inflation rate is under 2% …

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Great Canadian Gaming and Clairvest Group Inc. awarded West GTA Bundle in Ontario gaming modernization process
http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/great-canadian-gaming-and-clairvest-group-inc-awarded-west-gta-bundle-in-ontario-gaming-modernization-process-665182813.html

>>> party on wayne, party on garth…

Just me
Guest
Just me

Non-resident Ownership of Residential Properties in Toronto and Vancouver: Initial Information from the Canadian Housing Statistics Program.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/11-626-x/11-626-x2017078-eng.htm

The CHSP data include estimates of the number and assessed value of selected types of properties owned by non-residents, including single-detached houses, semi-detached houses, row houses, and condominium apartments.Note 2 Estimates are available for the Toronto and Vancouver census metropolitan areas (CMAs). This study examines differences in the assessed property value of non-resident and resident-owned condominium apartments, and evaluates the extent to which differences in value can be explained by the location, age and size of these properties.

Just me
Guest
Just me

One in 20 properties in Vancouver metro owned by non-residents already.
For condos the figure is almost one in ten.
Value of properties by non residents significantly higher than value of properties held by residents.

The figures above do not include properties held through proxies, such as housewives and other family members. Nor they include properties held by non-resident through corporations and companies domiciled in Canada.
Including those properties would significantly increase the share of housing attributable to foreign investment.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

Links for your data?

Just me
Guest
Just me

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/non-resident-real-estate-1.4455861

For the purposes of the report released Tuesday, Statistics Canada might include Canadian citizens in what it calls “non-residents.” To the agency, a non-resident is either a Canadian citizen who no longer lives in the country (but still owns real estate) or a non-citizen who owns property in Canada without living in the country as a primary residence.

Nearly eight per cent of the condos in the Greater Vancouver area are owned by non-residents. In Toronto, the figure is slightly lower, but still north of seven per cent.

On average, condominiums owned by non-residents are worth 30 per cent more than other ones, which suggests that higher-end dwellings are preferred by non-residents.

The average condo owned by a non-resident in downtown Vancouver was worth $930,600. In downtown Toronto, the average was $439,000.

Just me
Guest
Just me

CMHC notes that foreign buyer crackdowns in Toronto and Vancouver have had at least one unexpected impact, in that they appear to be shifting some demand to Montreal.

Non-residents owned 1.1 per cent of condos in the Greater Montreal area last year. This year, that percentage jumped to 1.7 per cent — still low, but an increase off more than 54 per cent in a year.

“The lack of growth in Toronto and Vancouver, combined with the increases in Montreal, indicate the possibility of a shift from these centres after the introduction of foreign buyers taxes in Ontario and British Columbia,” said Bob Dugan, CMHC’s chief economist Bob Dugan.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

As usual, you omit the part of the quote which doesn’t suit you. After raising the possibility of foreign buyers being displaced Dugan went on to say:

“However, other factors may also be having a positive impact on the growth of non-resident housing demand in Montreal, including lower housing prices than in other major centres, and a relatively strong economy.”

So dishonest.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

They can’t help it. It’s part of their nature and culture!

Just me
Guest
Just me

Before the usual suspects start waving their hands and claim numbers are low, keep in mind the definition of non-resident used by Stats Can. It does not include family members that are resident of Canada while receiving funds from astronauts and other non- residents. It does not count properties held through corporations domiciles in Canada.
In Vancouver west we know well that students, housewives and numbered company hold a large chunk of SFHs.

Even then, the numbers are stunning. A large chunk of our housing stock is held by non resident.

Just me
Guest
Just me

From the CBC comment section:

David Zhou
Remove 10-year super visa , lots of people taking advantage of this loophole by abandoning their resident status, like husband is nonresident making tax free money abroad but wife& children living in big house plus investment properties here in Canada to enjoy canada’s free education, healthcare and claiming all kinds low income benefits including child support cash. The husband keeps transporting cash money into this country by using the 10 year visa. When he gets old and will retire in Canada to reunite with family meantime claiming low income as well.

Just me
Guest
Just me
More comments: Arash Bahari That’s only on paper. So many of them in Vancouver purchase home under other family members names, friends, or company names. It is like a 3rd party transaction that has a drastic impact on prices. Elston Gunn Two major issues/questions with the ‘report’. First, the 5% figure may hold true when taken on a large metropolitan area of both Vancouver & Toronto, but when narrowed to the highest price half of the housing in each city (especially Vancouver), this report doesn’t pass the simple smell test, which is in fact an ‘eyeball test’. Walking around the west side of Vancouver with nothing more than fingers to count, it is easy to pick out who lives, who owns, and which houses are abandoned (or simply vacant). 10% – 15% would be even a low-end estimate. The second… Read more »
YVR
Guest
YVR

Looks like HAM was a myth. Good thing, the NDP weren’t going to do anything anyway. Now they have an official excuse. Maybe Eby will come out of hiding and have a press conference announcing problem solved?

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

+1

dyugle
Guest
dyugle

A common form of fraud is the I buy three you buy one. The agent will show the mark at the pre-sale that he has bought as many as three units as it is a can’t loose deal. He will even show him the signed contracts that were purchased that day before it was opened to the public. The mark buys not knowing that the agent has three days to cancel the deal which he promptly does at the end of that business day or sometime during the day. Ever wonder how more units are made available during the day of a pre-sale and they have been “repriced”.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Vancouver woman being charged Empty Homes Tax for land with no home on it

https://globalnews.ca/news/3923582/vancouver-woman-being-charged-empty-homes-tax-for-land-with-no-home-on-it/

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

vacant, undeveloped land is also subject to robertson’s tax?

Just me
Guest
Just me

Hopefully so. Look at the empty lots at 10th and Alma, or at Davie and Burrard. They have been acquired years ago and left empty, for the purpose of reaping future appreciation. This is speculation at its purest and should be taxed heavily.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

well, if needed, the work around would be to simply apply for the various permits and what not without any real intention of building anytime soon

best place on earth
Guest
best place on earth

yeah, tax the rich. the freeloaders are hungry all the time.; need to feed them.

Slava
Member
Slava

Precisely! The rich are the freeloaders.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

This is awesome if true. These rich dirtbags need to stop land speculating and do something with these lots. I will not be surprised if there are massive shockwaves in property prices because of the vacant tax. Most of the absent speculators probably haven’t clued in that they’re going to get charged huge taxes for their vacant speculative investments.

yvr2zrh
Member
Active Member

If you think that one of the purposes of the tax is to raise the holding costs of real estate – then taxing empty lots at a higher rate is really an important part of the tax. Look at how cheap it is to just buy land in Vancouver and leave it sitting. If we are talking about an empty lot – you could be from anywhere in the world and you could store a pretty high amount of value in Vancouver empty lots without having almost any holding costs. I would say the tax should apply.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Of course they have to tax vacant land. The fire department wouldn’t be able to keep up with all the houses being torched in order to avoid the tax.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

shadow flipping, assignments and land assemblies coming soon to the “Champs Elysees de Vancouver”…

Dave
Member

Amazing. I can’t imagine how they could possibly make money having to pay $350 per day in municipal tax. Then add in your business license, municipal utilities, provincial taxes, federal taxes and all the other ones too. Let’s be generous and call that $500 per day just in government costs. Now you have to pay rent, utilities, and pay for staff. They’re probably close to $1,000 per day just to keep the door open. Let’s say your profit margin is 20%. You would need to do about $5,000 per day in sales. This is why more and more small businesses are going to shut down.

Slava
Member
Slava

By unquenchable greed they inadvertently create the rope in which to hang themselves.

YVR
Guest
YVR

With that kind of taxation on business the only things that can survive in Vancouver are currency exchanges and pay day loan stores. Maybe bubble tea.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

How will they actually collect on these guys? A lien? Let’s say they build up a huge tax bill, leave the lots empty for years, won’t the City need to negotiate with them to get their pet projects done? I predict the big players will not be taxed. There will be a workaround.

DaMann
Member
DaMann

Welcome to Vancouver. We don’t need an economy or businesses. Just build and sell build and sell. God this city is so stupid it hurts.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

It’s like a game of high-stakes musical chairs. When the music stops, 50% of the chairs are taken away and everyone without chairs is left unemployed, bankrupt, or both.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Looks like foreign buyers aren’t the big problem in Canada’s housing market after all”, Financial Post

http://business.financialpost.com/real-estate/foreign-investment-in-toronto-vancouver-housing-below-5-pct

“Foreign buyers make up a minuscule portion of the market, new research shows, but what they own is more expensive and newer”

“Non-residents owned 3.4 per cent of all residential properties in Toronto and 4.8 per cent of residential properties in Vancouver, according to new housing statistics by Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. and Statistics Canada.”

Dave
Member

The CMHC doesn’t even believe their own study. Trust me on this.

The government is failing the public because they are now pushing propaganda and lies. That’s what this study is. Nobody who is an industry insider would believe those numbers. In fact, the industry operates on a completely different understanding which is that foreign money is a huge component of our market. Everybody knows it, including the CMHC.

Everybody is scared to tell the truth. If the CMHC was legitimately concerned about the Canadian public, they would try to get a handle on this.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

not propaganda. in fact, this is the opposite. this is clear proof the measures currently in place don’t work. as an example, what good is a “foreign” buyer tax if 95% of buyers are either legitimately exempt or are exploiting one of a variety of loopholes to dodge the tax?

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

Nonsense. Where is YOUR proof that 95% are “dodging the tax”?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

He has no proof. His whole hypothesis is driven by jealousy, prejudice, and that one time he saw an Asian-looking fella driving a Ferrari.

oncebittwiceshy
Guest
oncebittwiceshy

Of course everyone in the industry is pushing a different mantra. How else could they persuade you to buy those investment condos. Sheesh.

In order to believe that Chinese investors are driving the housing market you actually have to believe in trickle down economics.

If you don’t, then you’re being hypocritical or disingenuous.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Ah, the old “Dave’s buddies have superior information to the federal government” argument.

Just me
Guest
Just me

@Southseacompany:

do you really believe it yourself? Come on, man…..

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Didn’t I predict you’d immediately reject the data? Yes, yes I did.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Earth is flat and blah blah blah….racism…blah blah blah…

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

It’s funny because the flat earthers are the ones who deny or ignore the wealth of scientific evidence against them yet have not one shred in their favour.

In this case that role is played by you. And you’re too dumb to understand.

There’s no data which would satisfy you, because your position is not rational.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

Yes I do. There are over a million homes in Vancouver and most may have been bought many many years ago, or were recent purchases made by folks who first bought in to our market years or decades ago and are trading up or down. So the figure is not surprising, but not very informative. It would be more informative to know the % of yearly buyers over the last 15 years who were foreign.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

More Chinafication of Canada
99.4% of @AeconGroup shareholders just voted to approve its $1.5-billion sale to CCCI. That means, unless Ottawa says no, the Canadian company behind such landmarks as the CN Tower and the Vancouver SkyTrain will soon become the property of the Chinese government.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Even if the government says no now, when the next recession hits we’ll be begging the Chinese to buy our distressed assets.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Sounds like Vancouver….
“Many Chinese investors borrowed the money to buy these houses from Australian banks using fake statements of foreign income. According to the Australian Financial Review banks were being tricked with cheap photoshopped bank statements that can be obtained online.”
“UBS estimates that $500 billion worth of “not completely factually accurate” mortgages now sit on major bank balance sheets.”
http://digitalfinanceanalytics.com/blog/safe-as-houses-not-if-you-live-in-australia/

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

sounds sketchy, mate…

Laibach
Member
Laibach

FWB – Fraudsters Without Borders, they are global.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Don’t worry, it’s not like mortgage fraud or poor underwriting standards have caused house price collapses before. Oh wait, never mind….

‘In 2004, the Federal Bureau of Investigation warned of an “epidemic” in mortgage fraud, an important credit risk of nonprime mortgage lending, which, they said, could lead to “a problem that could have as much impact as the S&L crisis”.’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

“One study places the losses resulting from fraud on mortgage loans made between 2005 and 2007 at $112 billion.”

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Mortgage fraud in China, “When everyone is doing it, you can’t put everyone in jail.” Hu Weigang, a lawyer specializing in real estate litigation, on the prevalence of mortgage fraud in China.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/china-risk-mortgages/
When this bubble blows, watch out

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Yes typical Chinese.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Talk to your cousins – the rapefugees

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Holy Crap. Our Big 5 does not have this problem, right????

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

just drove by No 2 and Granville and there’s some a-hole in a Cda Goose parka running his $2000 snow blower to skim off the 1″ of snow and launching everything right back onto the road…

gotta get a dash cam…

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

How very prawn-like. Very irritating but not enough to merit jail time.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

StatsCan report on Foreign Investments in Toronto & Vancouver RE market. But I’m sure bears already know that you can’t trust StatsCan and they have their own cold hard facts that refutes everything here.

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/foreign-investment-toronto-vancouver-housing-135134478.html

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I think the numbers are probably accurate, but this doesn’t account for locals using foreign money. To avoid the FBT they’re having to get more creative by funneling cash to domestic purchasers. Also, not all bears agree that foreign investment is the primary factor driving unaffordability. I personally believe the primary issue is domestic speculative purchasing behavior brought on by excessive borrowing. As it relates to pricing action in housing, the perception of foreign buyers matters more than the reality. Locals are in complete panic mode that HAM will continue to come to Canada forever, and housing will get more expensive in perpetuity. What they don’t realize is these are very short term economic shifts, and not remotely sustainable.

history
Guest
history

Ham is a very desirable commodity, especially when the temp moves below freezing. On the street ham goes up in value this time of year.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

My neighbour’s house in Burnaby sold to a local buyer… except the money is coming from her husband who is working in Hong Kong (she told me this directly) so is that really a local buyer? Technically it would count as a local buyer but it’s not really.

Just me
Guest
Just me

That transaction would be recorded as a resident transaction, and it would show up as a resident holding of RE in StatsCan registers.

I agree with you: the money came in full from Asia, so local earners are crowded out by income generated in Asia. This is the problem that our politicians have to address. Money inflows should be taxed heavily to make the playing field level.

Local proxy buyers channel huge amounts of Chinese money in Vancouver. everybody knows it, but nobody wants to say it openly in public debate for fear of being labeled as racist. Not sure why it would be racist to point out a simple fact like this, but we live in strange times.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

The CRA needs to sink their teeth into these cases. There are a lot of Chinese spouses buying huge houses and declaring little to no global income. The tax-man should publicly make an example of a few of these cheats to kill our status as a tax-haven. I’d like to see some of them in jail if the fraud is big enough. I’ve heard they partially closed the door on the voluntary disclosure program, maybe it will start happening soon. A bear can dream…..

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Yes, and as we all know one counter example from a liar is sufficient to defeat nationwide statistics collected by the government.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Didn’t someone on this blog claim that StatsCan isn’t trustworthy as well?

Raincity
Guest
Raincity

The HAM’s spark prices, and the locals fuel the momentum!

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Chinese tire maker picks North Carolina site for major plant :

https://app.tmxmoney.com/news/cpnews/article?locale=EN&newsid=f12403

The Triangle factory marks at least the third Chinese tire maker to build production plants in the U.S., with other companies choosing sites in South Carolina and Georgia.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Someone’s jealous!

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