Houses being sold at a loss

Southseacompany points out this article claiming speculators are leaving the local market and selling homes purchased in the last two years for less than the purchase price:

Dozens of homes in Metro Vancouver bought in the last two years are currently listed to be sold for a loss as speculators appear to exit Canada’s hottest real estate market.

An industry insider sent ThinkPol sales data for single family houses in the Lower Mainland showing roughly 40 properties that are currently listed for prices lower than what the sellers originally paid for them.

As the property purchases were made within the last two years, ThinkPol was able to validate this data using information published by BC Assessment.

price read the full article here

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Laibach
Member
Laibach

“Dozens of homes in Metro Vancouver bought in the last two years are currently listed to be sold for a loss as speculators appear to exit Canada’s hottest real estate market.”

And while they are “exiting” it would be the utmost deed to tunnel them and vigorously beat them off with the shitty sticks and listen to their screechy frantic screams fading out on their way back to a cesspool.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

*Listed* at a loss.

How many have been listed for gain but then sold at par, at a net loss, or at a gross loss by panicked sellers who realized that the knife was falling.

My guess is 10:1 — for every house listed at a loss, 10 are sold under asking.

Denial. It’s a hell of a drug.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Active Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

I think we can all agree that looking at the price overall tells us more than looking at a few properties.

So, overall, are prices up or down versus 2 years ago?

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

The prices are set at the margins and real estate is local. Hyper-mega-local.

So what does “overall” mean to you? Over a time period or over an area? Or both?

How about right now today over an area of your choosing?

http://www.myrealtycheck.ca

Look at all those pretty little red arrows.

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

Since you know a lot, you should have used your talent to get yourself into the market. Dont be the next victim of eviction. At least, have something to show for yourself. Any one can do salivating.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Good point…

Its only a “loss” if the seller received less than THEY paid for………not some sort of scheme where losses are manufactured and manipulated by some sort of pool of investors/launderers etc.

Another trend that CRA should look into, as why would someone that can afford RE @ $1 million plus bail within a year or so and take large haircut ?

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Active Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

every area tracked by the REBGV, and every house type (detached, townhouse, apartment) is up over the last 6 months, 1 year, 3 years, 5 years.

that’s what overall means to me.

so if you want to look at one house or two dozen houses where some moron got into a bidding war and paid over market and make assumptions about the market OVERALL, go ahead. after all, it doesn’t cost me anything if you act like a moron.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Well if we are setting our understanding of the pricing by measuring what morons pay at the end of bidding wars, then let that continue to be the metric.

Morons overpay for 40 houses = all houses very expensive
Morons lose money on 40 houses = house prices falling

Setting the prices at the margin is a bitch.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Active Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

go ahead and believe that house prices are collapsing. i’m totally ok with you thinking that.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

I’m thinking Bull won that argument.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

I like how your username and comment are mutually corroborating.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

The most visible metric we can all subscribe to is ” FOR SALE” signs ….Detached has few SOLDS…multi family sales seems steady.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Number of “for sale” signs you saw on your way to the liquor store is not exactly a reliable metric.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Actually, your mortgage broker started ROTFLAO.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Active Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

is it possible that you’re just seeing what you want to see (confirmation bias)?

because sales in november icnreased 26.2 when compared to November 2016. and last month’s sales were 17 per cent above the 10-year november sales average.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Sales of what..Detached?..or condo?..or both?

What about median prices?

Would not be surprised if sales are up now…SHTF soon with OSFI, Stress tests and interest rates…etc. Simply absorbs potential buyers for next year.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Active Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

sales up = bearmarket
sales down = bearmarket

it’s always a bearmarket when you use bearlogic.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

Not to mention that those staying in Canada and paying tax could use a write off or two, especially when the HAM buyer includes an envelope of cash with purchase.

paulb
Member
Trusted Member

New
133
Price Change
33
Sold
120
TI:8865

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

Can someone with a bright mind subtract the number of land assembly listings from this TI an see what is the availability to the market?

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Why…land assemblies are generally not binding…..the properties can still be sold individually.
If say 5 houses are assembled and sold…is that not 5 sales?

I know this is going wild in Richmond…realtors are assembling SFH for multi- family re-zoning. What is occurring is the OCP may not designate re-zoning for a given assembly, but the developers approach the city with such proposals and often succeed.

nora
Guest
nora

Then why is this story not being picked up by Global news!

Boombust
Guest
Boombust

Global and other Postmedia affiliates are beholden to RE advertisers. That’s why.

Diadora
Guest
Diadora

Bob Rennie and fellow advertisers will not allow it.

Bubble
Guest
Bubble

https://youtu.be/HzSAmOQuyjU

Who owns New Zealand now? Many Canadians interviewed.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Eye on the Kiwis…

Recently reported that auctions of New Zealand homes are falling flat…many are not even bothering to bid

Curious why this practice is not very common in Canada..maybe this will be a new trend when SHTF and volume of Unsold or delinquent mortgages rises.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Good summary. Worth watching

YVR
Guest
YVR

“speculators are leaving the local market”

There are two things that happen when speculators leave the market. First they sell what they have. Second they don’t buy anymore properties. Both equal higher inventory. More sellers, less buyers. Until we see inventory go up I am not buying there is a significant change in the market. We need to hit 20K before we see big price drops across the market.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

20K?

IMHO the panic is at its early stages….but it will begin to snowball.
The condo market is the one to watch…when it starts it will be unstoppable.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

I would love to believe that but I don’t see any signs of panic. If you do please share them. Everyone I talk to still thinks Vancouver RE is a one way ticket.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Opinion/s of MyRealtyCheck site:

Is it cherrypicked or unbiased ?
If unbiased, pretty much showing a market trend which is a precursor to 20K number.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Inventory of close to 20K has been seen before, and prices were still increasing. We need a prolonged period of MOI in the high teens at the very least to see price drops.

What is MOI today? Nobody knows because they’re all too busy bitching about China.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

No MOI because of MAO.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

“Dozens of homes”

Wow, that could literally be almost a half days worth of sales!

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

City of Vancouver approves 2018 budget, with a last-minute property tax hike
https://globalnews.ca/news/3913598/vancouver-budget-property-tax-hike/

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Pretty sleazy….
Keep in mind these increases compound.

Given the hot RE market, why do Local Gov’ts need tax increases. Their revenue streams( numerous fees, permits, etc) must be huge since foreign locust invasion. At stroke of pen approving rezonings they rake in millions. Where is THIS money stashed?

IMHO the citizens are simply “used” to these property tax hikes…and accept them?!?

PS the news item stated that COV Communications Dept has 30 staff ? WTF ?

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

It’s a rich area with massive homes, and a Vancouver councillor wants to house students there
https://globalnews.ca/news/3913558/west-point-grey-student-housing/

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
YVR
Guest
YVR

“It’s a rich area with massive homes, and a Vancouver councillor wants to house students there”

Most of those Point Grey homes are housing students. Just none are local students.

history
Guest
history

In the Canadian bucket shop room, we call this a Reverse Split of a Shell
after Accumulation, particularly effective pump n dumpin the Bestplace on Ert, Vcr Exchange

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

Condos are killing the Toronto strip club. In a city that once had more than 60 bars with nude dancers, only a dozen remain, the rest replaced by condominiums, restaurants, and housewares stores
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-12/it-s-closing-time-for-toronto-s-strip-clubs

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

The worst travesty I’ve seen yet of our housing crisis.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

B.C. Liberal leader candidate and former B.C. Finance Minister, Mike de Jong, will expand Mandarin in the public education system if elected
http://www.richmond-news.com/news/de-jong-wants-more-mandarin-in-schools-1.23120765

Just me
Guest
Just me

Pandering to mainlanders.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

this is beyond pandering. taxpayer funded changes to public school curriculums simply tilts the playing field even further in favour of the chinese foreign student who was only able to jump the queue because mommy and daddy greased the right palms. the next thing you know, english won’t even be a university requirement and canada will adopt mandarin as an official language

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Trudeau started this via bilingualism……waste of time and money. It was a precursor to multiculturalism, to marginalize Caucasians, which eventually paved the way for foreign locusts invasion and subsequent conquering..

De Jong = pro mandarin …. is surrendering on our behalf. ? Like NDP intervention on housing market…why bother……let nature takes its course.

Competition to Mandarin will die off via attrition…”rast pelson to reave BC tuln rights out”

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Maybe he’s thinking if he can learn Mandarin he can sell his 6 apartments in Abbotsford to mainlanders: https://www.straight.com/news/913986/mike-de-jongs-real-estate-portfolio-value-rose-after-introduction-foreign-buyers-tax

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Active Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

sinophication continues.

Vancouver, a better China
http://www.smallstation.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2783

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

“Our obligation is to ensure that our children will have the tools they need to be enslaved in the 21st century,” said de Jong.

history
Guest
history

Whats interesting with the Perennial Vacation ATM Heloc Boomer Fraud Lifestyle Crowd, is that by virtue of Trumps emphatic support of a bullish Stock Market, and his Fortune tied to Real Estate, when things go south, this group of Finance Criminals wont have the Trump/Putin electorate supporters to blame for their misfortune. They are being sliced and diced by Game Theory politics, propaganda, and theatre
The anti-theatical Plunge Protection Team.

LS in Arbutus
Guest
LS in Arbutus

Hot off the press. Canada’s Finance Ministers have agreed to strengthen corporate transparency in Canada. Appropriate authorities need to know who owns which companies to better prevent tax evasion and money laundering. Beneficial ownership transparency baby. I have previously said it was only a matter of time:

http://www.fin.gc.ca/n17/data/17-122_4-eng.asp

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

Barn door. Horse bolted.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

Housing market expected to slow next year, but prices still forecast to rise :
https://app.tmxmoney.com/news/cpnews/article?locale=EN&newsid=pcw93832&mobile=false

TORONTO – New stricter mortgage rules are expected to slow the housing market next year, but prices are still expected to rise about five per cent, according to a report by Royal LePage.
Greater Vancouver is expected to increase 5.2 per cent in 2018.

Also heard on News1130 this AM to go with this; chief Royal LePage house pumper Phil Soper says there will be no interest rate increases by the Bank of Canada in 2018. He must really be in the know… or be insane.

history
Guest
history

Ask him what his insider knows about China and India yield curve.. since thats whose paying for Canada’s West Coast Bubble

http://www.worldgovernmentbonds.com/country/china/

Substitute china with india to get our resident FV slumlords banker

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Canada’s Housing Bubble Resembles That Of The U.S A Decade Ago”, HiBusiness

http://hibusiness.ca/2017/12/13/canadas-housing-bubble-resembles-that-of-the-u-s-a-decade-ago/

“Chief economist David Rosenberg told BNN at Gluskin Sheff “this bubble is on par with what we had in the states back in 2005, 2006 and 2007. We have to actually take a look at the situation. The housing market here is a classic price bubble. If you don’t acknowledge that you have your head in the sand”.”

YVR
Guest
YVR

A few difference with the US bubble that will make ours much worse. In the US interest rates were dropped to soften the blow (which helped pump our bubble). Here our rates are already at rock bottom and we will have the US raising rates when our bubble is imploding. The US also had lots of room on the government balance sheet for government debt (Obama almost doubled the debt in 8 years). Here is Canada our federal government is already spending like drunken sailors. There is not much more room to spend more. Better hope weed brings in lots of new revenue.

Dave
Member

We have also been quietly killing our resource sector because of growing NIMBYism. In the period of 2005 to 2015, something like half of new jobs in Canada were attributable to oil. In the last couple years, most of our new jobs have been real estate related because the NIMBYs are stopping resource jobs. Once real estate corrects, what’s left for job creation? A lower dollar will likely be our new economic policy to make us a cheaper place to do business. Government debt will go up because they’ll want to spend more to get growth.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Nothing to do with the price of oil then? Right.

Dave
Member

Alberta would produce more if they could move it out of the Province. A country that wanted resource jobs would have built Northern Gateway, Kinder Morgan and Canada East 10 years ago. A country that wanted to sell LNG would have built export facilities five years ago. We’re behind other countries that want those jobs. It’s the same story for every resource project —> NOT IN MY BACKYARD.

The price of commodities is a factor for sure, but I think NIMBYism is the bigger one.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

You’re focusing on the projects which didn’t happen whilst ignoring all those which did. It simply became less profitable to pull it out of the ground.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Alberta Oil for Kinder Morgan ?? simply sludge…… low value bitumen….. raw material of last resort. Koch brothers have a bitumen refinery in Minnesota…300,000 barrels a day…..buy this shit very cheap..$ 5-7 barrel
Why doesn’t Alberta refine it.

Natural Gas….another pipe dream.

NOTE:BC was played in the 1980’s via NorthEast coal….all hype till Japanese suckered in other countries to supply coal as well then demanded a price cut..which shut down Tumbler Ridge area.

Alberta is desperate to apparently wholesale resources at any price….as it will end up as broke as Maritimes. There is no shortage of Oil…simply what the Saudis desire for market share. Alberta bet big on Oil “Tar” sands….bad bet..they are done.

(Maybe Alberta can take some foreign locusts ?!? )

dyugle
Guest
dyugle

Wester Canada select is selling at 38.27
http://www.psac.ca/business/gmpfirstenergy/
and Suncor made 1.2 trillion last quarter.
Good points though.

Strata Hacker
Guest
Strata Hacker

One of this country’s greatest flaws is that Ontario and or Quebec have a veto on what’s good for the West. Stupid.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29
US banker crooks threw additional gas on the fire during the 2008 crash as they were positioned to profit handsomely from the popping of the housing bubble they were instrumental in creating and the subsequent cleanup that allowed them steal trillions in taxpayer dollars no questions asked to line their pockets once again. With the help of billions in hot foreign money seeking a safe haven and back door bailouts by the BoC, Canada was able to sidestep this mess for the most part. This said, no hot air was really ever let out of the ever increasing bubble being inflated right here and many locals undoubtedly developed a false sense of security as a result with the ave Cdn now lugging around the largest debt loads in the developed world. While I do think things will end badly for… Read more »
oopswediditagain
Guest
oopswediditagain
I’m not sure that it will be a slow grind bullwhip. I took a look at how quickly the markets changed in Vancouver and Toronto when the foreign buyer’s tax was brought in and then I asked myself, “What the hell would happen if something substantial ever hit this market?” I looked at the sea change of mortgage applications going from insured to uninsured after the previous OSFI changes. This wasn’t minimal. I then reviewed the incredible amount of debt that many Canadian have taken on, pointed out in various posts, as well as the stupid surge in helocs. Then, I looked at the ratio of mortgages renewing this upcoming year and yes, renewals are not affected by OSFI legislation but I can assure you that there is a decent percentage of these renewals that were hoping to refinance the… Read more »
Dave
Member

I generally see it the way he does, but I think you also can’t ignore the foreign money component of the bubble. That clouds an analysis of affordability. Prices are where they are because we have been importing dirty money. We have no idea what that volume of money is, how much is still to come and when it might stop. So to predict a pop of the bubble due to interest rate increases may be wrong. But, eventually higher rates will win out and I think the Bank of Canada needs to seriously consider popping the bubble earlier than later because at some point, it’s going to have to pop.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

How does one “pop” a bubble that is simultaneously being inflated by foreign money. Right now China is focused on reigning in their own property bubble but should the shtt hit the fan, they have lots of ways to ease monetary policy again. RRRs at banks, etc and that has a knock on effect here.

ostritch
Member
Active Member
ostritch

It comes down to a simple bet for housing: in 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now will Vancouver be a less Asian or more Asian city than it is now.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Shadow Lending Growing as Canadians Chase Housing Dream”, Bloomberg

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-13/risk-shifts-to-shadows-in-canada-s-whac-a-mole-housing-market

“In the uninsured space, mortgages are increasingly going to highly indebted households and for amortizations for longer than 25 years, the central bank said. And like Brookes’s clients drowning in house debt, more borrowers are turning to lenders whose activities fall outside federal regulatory scope.”

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“How an expected U.S. interest rate increase will affect Canadians: Don Pittis”, CBC

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/yellen-rate-increase-canada-1.4444491

“keeping up with the Fed could put a strain on the Canadian economy.”

“”You know, the Bank of Canada is in a tight spot,” says Rochon. “The biggest constraint on the Bank of Canada right now is the high debt levels of Canadians. You raise those rates a third time, a fourth time, a fifth time and that’s going to have a real drag on the economy.””

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

the only move the BoC (and other central bankers) has is to inflate all the problems away. debt loads are simply too big for any regular joe to pay down in multiple lifetimes let alone in 10, 15 or 20 yrs. given what has occurred to date with the trump administration i wouldn’t rule anything out once yellen is officially out of the picture.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

These cracksuckers know all this..Canada’s RE bubble is waaay different than US. The US’s RE bubble was fuelled domestically. Canada’s is fuelled by foreigners…the powers that be learned from the late 1970’s early 1980’s crash.

When RE crash Canada occurs…the foreign influence will be blatantly obvious and UNdeniable ( except sino agent SIDA)….thus they may have no choice to avoid this fact but to inflate again after token measures are attempted.

Don’t think Trudeau ain’t talking to Horgan on this matter……..

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

“Interest rates will have to go down across the world to deflate the bubble”, The Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/interest-rates-federal-reserve-european-central-bank-bank-of-egland-deflate-bubble-a8107951.html

“The long period of ultra-loose monetary policy is coming to an end. You could say this is because it has done its job, in that it has led to a solid global recovery. But you can also point to the costs of the policy, an asset boom that has increased inequality and threatens now to lead to an asset bust”

Patiently Waiting
Member
Patiently Waiting

Down?

Dave
Member

Obviously it should say up, but it shows the average level of economic knowledge at your average paper.

I agree that Canadian rates are going to get pulled up by US rates. I don’t think Poloz will want to keep the same pace though because he seems stuck on low rates and doesn’t care about hurting the dollar. The US will get 3 or 4 increases and we’ll probably get 1 or 2. I think now is a good time to move your cash into US currency because that gap in rate increases will cause our dollar to drop. I can see the CAD in the low 70s in 2018.

southseacompany
Member
southseacompany

The article speaks of raising rates. It’s only the headline that’s wrong.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

https://globalnews.ca/news/3909890/new-mortgage-rules-home-prices-royal-lepage/

MSM is now really picking up on this fake news by Royal LePage.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Any article quoting Royal LePage should promptly be printed out and placed in the bathroom in the event you should ever run out of toilet paper…

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

It’s not “fake news”, dumbass. Why do you trumptards like to trot out that phrase so much? They’re simply reporting the opinion of Royal LePage and have correctly attributed those opinions to them. Nothing is fabricated. The fact that theyre quoting a completely biased source doesn’t make it “fake news”, it’s merely just unreliable journalism. Sad!

SilentBob
Guest
SilentBob

I laughed out loud. Your butthurt is palpable.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Intelligent comment, well made.

SilentBob
Guest
SilentBob

Never change space889, never change.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Thinkpol: Whistleblower questions reliability of statistics published by Vancouver real estate board
https://thinkpol.ca/2017/12/13/whistleblower-questions-reliability-of-statistics-published-by-vancouver-real-estate-board/

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

I don’t think “whistleblower” means what they think it does.

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Canadians to stay in the dark about who owns country’s companies
A public registry would provide “an extra set of eyes” — considered key in the fight against tax evasion — but such a move appears to be stalled.
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/12/12/canadians-to-stay-in-the-dark-about-who-owns-countrys-companies.html
Bill Morneau has to go!

BubbleTea
Guest
BubbleTea

Steve Saretsky: Concord Brentwood for sale this weekend in Hong Kong.
When is enough is enough of selling our city to foreigners?

Dave
Member
Apparently never. The NDP isn’t going to rock that boat. Trudeau wants to make it bigger. A future BC Liberal Party is fully on-board with that too. The Bank of Canada cares not about a housing bubble. Nobody has the political guts to do anything about it. And not enough voters care to make it a greater issue because many people aren’t making a link to how it affects their life. When this City is done hollowing itself out, they’ll finally get a clue and complain about it then. In the meantime, throw another log on the fire and let’s keep the party going. If you’re a normal working person, your final chance at a change will be February when the NDP roles out their housing strategy (which will be status quo more or less). If housing doesn’t correct by… Read more »
Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

GreaterFool blog..

Host’s latest post titled ” blame game”..trying to make a case ( or simply sly as fox stirring up the inevitable) that “foreign buyers” are a small % of buyers…

Lot of good comments intellectually nuking that …all sorts of ways one can disguise foreign ownership.
Many are also calling Garth out that he is clueless re: Metro Vancouver market.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

I have relatives who have substantial money to invest and they are looking for a fee based advisor and I gave them a few names to check out but Turner Investments was not one of them. Specifically because of GT’s position on foreign (chinese) ownership.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

His position is simply that the data doesn’t support the notion that foreigners are to blame for lack of affordability, but that it does support the fact that idiots have leveraged themselves to the eyeballs to maintain a one-asset retirement plan. And he’s right. Even Just me told us how his idiots friends have been buying like there’s no tomorrow. But I guess they’re special.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

GT mission seems to be
(i) don’t use Real Estate as an investment
(ii) big fan of ETF’s.
(iii) beware of mutual funds etc. = rip-off fees
(iv) fickle “delete” button.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

You mean he won’t tolerate your racist unintelligible drivel and you’re now sulking about (iv).

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

And this is exactly why next Tuesday you’ll ignore statscan, too.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

GT latest is the tax hits Trudeau and Morneau are implementing on small business. Projected revenue is around $200 million. Big Deal….

More like an attack on small business and keep us under Liberals communist thumb. Could easily generate the revenue by more CRA audits on Real Estate , trust funds and investigation of offshore corporations……..but that would be racist…. right?

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Nope. Not racist until fuckwits like you start with the slurs.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I’ll play devil’s advocate and say that from a RE bear perspective, it’s actually a good thing that foreigners are buying our real estate instead of locals. During the correction the less locals that own our overpriced real estate the better. The damage has already been done on inflating the bubble, now at least there’s a chance for locals to realize their paper gains by selling to foreigners, and the foreign speculators will be left holding the bag. In essence, before the bubble it would have been a good idea for the Liberals to keep HAM out of the market, but now that it’s fully inflated, we’re better off with as much HAM investment as possible.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Disagree. It’s like saying leave the cancer, its established…

If the RE market was more domestically driven, like in the late 1970’s early 1980’s, Gov’t had the data such as liquidity, GDP, Job market, other economic data ,….and made the call to reign it in, albeit a collapse ensued.

With HAM, its the great unknown. Are we in a bear market or just a lull and another bull market? That type of uncertainty does no-one any good….we are kicking the can down the road. Greater fool market has likely been tapped. Much more of this has high probability of revolution.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Doomcouver is correct.

It’s wealth confiscation with non-Canadian speculators as the targets and Canada as the beneficiary.

Just remember not to be stupid and get on the wrong side of it.

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

John Horgan promises housing tax changes ‘that will affect demand’ in February budget

https://globalnews.ca/news/3914763/john-horgan-promises-housing-tax-changes-that-will-affect-demand-in-february-budget/

“We’ve got to stop the speculation, we’re going to do that to the best of our ability in February,” he said. “The Liberals made a ham-fisted effort with loopholes the size you could drive a Mack truck through.”

Dave
Member

I’ll be honest, I’m starting to like Horgan. In that interview, he said:

“We have a serious speculation and money laundering problem in British Columbia, and I can’t wave a magic wand and fix that overnight.”

At least he is finally doing the right thing by talking the market down. It’s true that you can’t just make changes on Day 1 and that you want to do it right. But you can also send the market a strong message. While I wouldn’t call his message very strong, it’s at least something.

That said, speculation isn’t the biggest issue… it’s the influx of money from China which is displacing locals. Hopefully they come around to that and do something there. If neither that nor interest rates change, the market won’t correct.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

These issues are often referred to as pyramid scheme for a reason.

Aim for the top…the head of the snake. The matter needs to have a proper focus..unless its worse than suggested and its such a web of intrigue that it also puts too many parties (aka politicians) under scrutiny…then revert back to scapegoats .

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

It’s not a pyramid scheme. Any buyer at any time can value the thing they’ve invested in and legally prove ownership. The fact they’re ascribing the wrong value doesn’t make them victims of a scheme, it makes them stupid.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

What I am referring to are the offshore groups/individuals who launder money and get minion proxy’s to buy RE. FEW foreign locusts are stand alone , they are supported by a network of bankers. lawyers, Immigration consultants etc.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

That’s not a pyramid scheme either.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Your fans must be dyslexic….
………..Pushing th e” thumbs down” votes in error

YVR
Guest
YVR

“I can’t wave a magic wand and fix that overnight.”

You could start trying to fix it. You could literally start the process overnight. They have been in power 6 months! That is like 180 nights and no attempt at anything.

Bear Vancouverite
Member
Bear Vancouverite

Speculation is the biggest issue because the influx of foreign money is almost entirely speculative. If you kill speculation you kill 99% of foreign influx, the rest are foreigners who actually want to live here.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

Translation:

Rest assured word is/will leak out on what NDP plan is. See if there is any interesting activity.

History has shown typical band-aid/meat- to- the- wolves is “TAX THE PROBLEM ” ……which solves nothing except parties will get caught in the middle while the rich have found other loopholes.

Like Foreign Buyers tax or Vacancy tax..CONDOS should have been included not excluded IF they actually wanted to take charge.

Condos will be the biggest variable in the overall RE collapse, yet the Gov’t effectively/literally Pied Pipered buyers into condos , QUESTION: ..was this the real plan all along?

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Seemingly the NDP haven’t forgotten about the demand-side problems in the housing crisis and their pre-election promises regarding it. The recent rhetoric seemed like they were dancing around the issue and only talking about supply-side solutions since the election. Fingers crossed we get some real action to put big curbs on speculation and foreign investment across the province. Though I’m skeptical they’ll do what needs to be done since solving the problem would completely crash the market. Putting in 2nd home and foreign buyer taxes across the province would definitely fix the issue, but would plunge us into recession almost immediately. I’ll be waiting anxiously to see what the budget looks like in February.

Dave
Member

A 2% tax isn’t going to do much but increase government revenue. That’s a low cost in the World of money laundering. Dirty money will happily pay the rate of inflation.

I think it needs to be at least 5% to have any effect.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

True, but 2% is better than nothing. Offloading some of the tax burden from locals to foreigners is a politically popular move as well. I think they’ll try to milk foreigners for as much as they think they can get away with without killing investor sentiment. I would prefer to see a 5% tax on foreign capital, not just on foreigners, but I don’t think there’s a great way to monitor that.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Oh that’s a laugh…can’t believe morons like you still exists and employed. The vast majority of the tax will be paid by locals making average family income.

Joey
Guest
Joey

The market is going down on its own. I think the consensus now is to take a wait and see approach. Even housing expert Steve Saretsky says to focus only on supply.

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

Steve is an expert? I am the king of England.

Combat roach
Guest
Combat roach

No, you are just a plain good old idiot and you know it.

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

Says the incoherent random sentence generator….

Shut It Down Already
Guest
Shut It Down Already

A lot of the speculators are buying their first or only home. They’re rushing to get in because their idiot uncle told them that real estate is a good investment that only ever goes up. Of course you can remove them from the market immediately by increasing minimum downpayment and removing existing incentives to buy, like the ridiculous downpayment loans the provincial government is dishing out and allowing people to raid their RRSPs.

Face it, the governments at all levels have decided that everybody has to be a buyer, not just those who can afford it unassisted.

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

You have many nieces and nephews ? !

Abdul Lahazi
Guest
Abdul Lahazi

U.S. Federal Reserve increases benchmark interest rate:

http://www.news1130.com/2017/12/13/us-federal-reserve-interest-rate/

and the relentless tightening continues…

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

The wealth consolidation begins. All the over-indebted middle class people with real estate as their only “investment” are going to get completely wiped out when rates go vertical. Baby boomer retirement plans are going to get completely eviscerated, and over-leveraged millenials are going to be pushed into insolvency. the 1%ers will be able to buy property for pennies on the dollar though, so it’s good for them I guess…

Joey
Guest
Joey

All the more reason for NDP not to upset housing any further. Write your MLAs on this.

history
Guest
history

Thats Doomy. I remember talking like that when i was 30.
It turned out completely opposite to what i thought, but for me personally, life sucked the rest of the 90s, and i never really recovered.

So, lets see what you are saying:
▪ wealth consolidation begins. (Actually, it may end now)
▪ Rates going vertical wipes middle class out (Actually, rates going vertical in the 3rd world wipes transnational speculators out)
▪ Baby boomers RRSP get gutted (there’s lots of us that agree this could happen, so be the contrarian, and start an RRSP that you dont pilfer.. not easy, eh?)
▪ Millenials pushed into insolvency (thats a bad place for them, personally, go the bankrupt route, you do bankruptcy when young)

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver
Higher interest rates are a sword that cuts both ways. Yes the speculators will be forced to exit the market when rates spike. But actual homeowners who are already struggling to make payments will have to re-amortize to infinity to stay in their home. Rates could easily be so high that, even at maximum amortization, people won’t be able to afford it. Wealth consolidation will accelerate, because even the “wealthy” are over-exposed to real estate as an asset class. It’s only the wealthiest of the wealthy, the so-called “smart money”, that are at arms length enough to scoop up assets when the market is imploding in on itself. Baron Rothschild said “Buy when there’s blood in the streets, even if the blood is your own.” . The people with enough liquidity to buy outright when bedlam breaks out will be… Read more »
Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Yeah but dude the world has never been skewed like this.

We are in utterly, utterly uncharted waters.

Comparing our current situation to old paradigms in nonsensical.

The current insanity is why China has $38T in shady loans and a house is 50 years’ income and the US is $20T in debt and the world printed $12T in currency and ran NIRP for a with no discernible inflation. Because the train has left the track.

When you were 30 you were probably dealing with Reaganomics or something.

This makes Reagonomics look like dropping your piggy bank when you were 4 and some of the pennies rolled under the couch.

Strata Hacker
Guest
Strata Hacker

Sure and Santa is gonna gift you a pet unicorn.

Joey
Guest
Joey

Yup! It would be wise for the NDP to hold off on housing changes because the market is unravelling. Prices are lower now than 2 years ago. They can do a little more on supply.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Are you nuts? This is the only right moment to pounce and give a significant push down to house prices in Vancouver. A wait and see attitude will simply prolong the market’s life, until the next upturn.
We don’t need marginally lower prices. We need significantly lower prices.

Anything short of a significant tax on speculators would be a letdown in February. The housing market is finally showing some small signs of weakness, but November 2017 is still the highest price record in Vancouver history. This is not good. We need the government to act decisively to bring prices down by at least 25%, for things to make sense again in terms of local incomes.

Right now not even lawyers and doctors can afford anything decent (unless you want to live in a 900sqft glass box, without open windows).

Lost...but not Leased
Guest
Lost...but not Leased

NDP next move?……that’s the scary thing.

Look at the foreign buyers’ tax. Did it scare off foreign buyers?
If a foreign buyer paid the tax…the likely purchaser will be ______? possibly another foreign buyer ?…………or no, if 2 foreign buyers are involved in a transaction during the life of the tax the total tax will be north of roughly 30% ie 15% each. By now, the lawyers and accountants have figured this out. Or perhaps sellers are reducing their asking prices so as to attract buyers aka “eating the tax”.

NDP may feed into the eat the rich mentality, and cast a net that affects long time locals. Politically, they have disappointed their supporters, so Feb.may simply be a suck up exercise.

wpDiscuz