Negatives for real estate

Yvr2zrh shared this comment:

Wow. Quite a lot of negatives for real estate values.

1.) If you live outside Vancouver and keep an apartment empty there, you now have a very punitive tax. Total will be 3% by 2019 (only 0.5% provincial in 2018 as a bit of a leeway to allow people to sell).

2.) FBT @20% – pretty good. Big tax – starts immediately. Wow . More people will get caught again. Deals will die. Also if property is over $3M – this will make it 25% for a foreigner to buy a Van West house. Then they have to pay 3% per year ($90K?) to leave it empty. Game over.

3.) The 2% spec tax – Strange name – it’s more of an absentee owner / empty home tax. It’s pretty sizeable. It’s going to be strange but somehow I think they are going to force it onto certain “principal residences” i.e. students, 10-Year visa people – who don’t qualify for really being a resident. Then – if they really pay tax in BC there is a tax credit. Good system.

4.) Full reporting of pre-sale transactions for tax purposes. I suppose that may help but you need to require a tax withholding for non-residents because otherwise – they just won’t pay.

5.) Unveiling all the hidden ownership – starting with collecting on new transactions and forcing existing transactions to be unveiled.

So – I would say that “Housing for Housing” has been supported and properties for non-residents etc – – that will be tough. What about all the Okanagan properties owned by Albertans – – It’s going to be interesting to see how many people bail!!!

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patriotz
Member

Government Needs Transitional Rules for All Transactions Impacted By Taxes Introduced in Budget 2018

The British Columbia Real Estate Association (BCREA) calls on the government to introduce transitional rules for all transactions impacted by the new tax measures introduced in Budget 2018. … Of additional concern, the “speculation” tax introduced in the budget will affect British Columbians who own or want to invest in those markets by buying a second home or recreational property…. the government missed the opportunity to help home buyers across the province by increasing the thresholds to the PTT or index those thresholds to reflect the changing real estate market….

Dave
Member
I’ll give them OK marks on the budget and I’m pretty right wing. I obviously don’t agree with a lot of their plans, but I this budget doesn’t strike me as ideological like the previous NDP governments were. I’d also say that they have also governed this way more or less, excluding Kinder Morgan. Hopefully, that’s a sign of a mature government. What’s going to bite them in the ass will be their Ministers. I can’t imagine a guy like George Heyman will make it full term. He’s already done a few embarrassing things and I’m sure he’ll do it again. He’ll probably get sued soon enough and have to step down. If the Referendum passes, I bet you see a Cabinet shuffle early next year to clean up some of the mess that gets made by some of their… Read more »
bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

re. item #4

the condo presale registry…

whether this was by design or not, the wording used by the NDP in their 30 point plan is often vague. one example is how they seemed to outline the condo presale registry which will supposedly track the “assignments” of condos. what isn’t clear is whether ALL buyers of units will have to register regardless if they flip or not (or if only assignments are reported) and if anything really changes with respect to the purchases made by offshore buyers and when/if changes are in store for this process and the collection of FBT and future cap gains tax which is done after the fact. the fact is that many current owners and future buyers won’t sell anytime soon and this housing will remain off the market indefintely

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

re. item #5

ending hidden ownership…

simple question, what happens to all the properties purchased through one or a variety of these avenues? more importantly, what happens if they are never sold?

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

At some point the CRA will be ” knocking on their door”. If I were a drug kingpin, I would sell and run away.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

i suspect for privacy reasons, an easily accessible and free ownership database will not be made available to public along the lines of bc assessment. and besides if true beneficial owner of a particular property can be obtained through certain channels, what will this really mean? they will still own property and there appears to be nothing to prevent them from keeping it off market forever if they so desire.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

re. item #3

until the govt clarifies what a “qualified long term rental” is I wont be holding my breath

to me it sounds a lot like gregor’s vacancy tax (vs a speculation/flipping tax), so if the home is rented out long term owner may claim up-front spec tax exemption and income offset isn’t even a consideration. unclear from details provided, so we’ll see…

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

If it’s a declaration. Then gong show continues.

DaMann
Member
DaMann

I have heard a few people now say that this will be impossible to enforce, won’t have enough teeth etc. Foreigners will find ways around it. i think people are missing the larger point here. Foreigners were investing here not because it’s pretty and clean, they were flocking here because it was pretty and clean but more importantly easy to cheat the system,. Don’t pay capital gains, no need to pay income tax etc etc etc. The optics have now changed. In my eyes they will just move on to greener pastures. If these NDP measures are enforced properly I can easily see this becoming a FAR less desirable place to park money and game the system. For too long we had a HUGE sing that read BC, open for corruption. i think that sign has been taken down now.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

it will depend a lot on what these so called exemptions look like. it might be a good thing or a lot of hot air after all is said and done. much of the wording in the document is deliberately vague perhaps by design.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Too many loopholes as I’ve slept over the budget.

FBT is a laugh of foreign students are exempted.

Farmland untouched.

Presales untouched.

Spec tax a joke if just a declaration it’s rented. Need CRA income tax rental offset. But they’ve already stated it will be a separate system.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

Your “sources” were 100% wrong as usual.

Name
Guest
Name

and recall that this so-called “oracle” said “no changes for housing in the budget”

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

You’ve completed discredited yourself on this blog…you’re just a babblingnn twit at this point.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

It will come down to how rabid and determined Eby is.

With Sam Sullivan pissing in his ear, hopefully our hairy-assed saviour won’t be able to sleep or eat until everything is made fair.

Or maybe this will be the Fast Ferries of market manipulation: A massive boondoggle that is all nice feelings and hopeful wishes that goes flaccid in its’ execution.

Wait and see.

Just me
Guest
Just me

From the sound of it, you don’t like what Eby is doing. The real question is: why don’t you?
At the very least it won’t impact locals and will have a negative psychological effect on the market. In the best case scenario (which happens to be what I suspect) it will make speculation by foreigners harder.
What’s there not to like?

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Incorrect interpretation.

Burnabonian has been 12 years on the sidelines awaiting February 20, 2018’s announcement. Without exaggeration.

I just don’t trust these buggers to execute.

Remember that nominally we have lots of controls in place now. They are just half-assed and easily circumvented.

This is more talk but they have not taken a single action.

Recalling that provincial and Federal NDP are notorious for being horrible at everything except for wasting public money and spouting platitudes.

I will believe it when I see it.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Agree. Completely.
We were giving the signal: we want your money, no matter how you got it. That message has suddenly changed.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

No it hasn’t.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Exactly.

Because the market didn’t rise due to the imaginary influx of so-called “furriners”.

It rose because of locals flipping houses to each other in anticipation of said ‘ners.

They believed we were attracting them and therefore started flipping tulips I mean beanie babies I mean crack shacks.

Now locals will believe that we are hostile to these imaginary people and will begin profit taking.

That’s all it takes.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Every serious academic who has looked at these issues (UBC, SFU and even abroad) disagrees with you. But go on and convince yourself that it is all about locals.

As I said before, at the very least this will help stop speculation by locals as well as foreigners. So you should be happy about these measures.
Unless your motives are different than having lower house prices…..

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Ownership data is completely obfuscated, and what meager data does exist has has never been published until very recently.

What are you talking about.

Nationality of buyer has only been captured for a little over a year and it shows very little foreign purchasing.

Have you and I been reading a different internet?

Just me
Guest
Just me

As I said, there are studies that try to fill the gaps. Andy Yan has produced a couple. There is a book by geographer David Ley at UBC. There is no single economist I know who dismisses foreign money as marginal (unless you want to call Cameron Muir a serious economist).

Davidoff and the UBC guys even have a tax proposal online in which they outline steps to stop speculation. They do not name foreigners, but the exact design of the tax (which predates the NDP reform and probably gave it its blueprint) is clearly geared to stop people who generate income outside BC and spend it in Vancouver. I guess you can call that coincidence if you want.

I guess we are reading different sources.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

Data shows that >95% of transactions are completed by locals.

Are you arguing that locals are not complicit participants in the raising of prices and the keeping of prices high, despite doing almost all the buying and almost all the selling?

If all of the locals had the same views as me, they would refuse to participate in the market and a single-digit percentage of offshore buyers wouldn’t have a chance of moving any prices.

But they are not. Locals are buying these properties. Locals are selling these properties. Locals are pricing these properties.

Not saying that foreign money doesn’t exist. But the only locals who get to claim victimhood are those who have refused to participate.

Everyone who participates, >95% of whom are local, is to blame.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

Just Me cares not for facts. He has opinions, and that’s what matters most. And when the facts don’t fit his opinions he simply makes shit up.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

Quick question: Does the FBT now applies to up to Hope?
I’ll laugh my ass off if I see RE prices spike in Yale and Boston Bar in the next few months.

patriotz
Member

FBT website now updated. Tax now applies to Fraser Valley RD. It now includes the former Fraser Cheam RD and goes well past Hope up the Fraser Canyon.

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/property-taxes/property-transfer-tax/understand/additional-property-transfer-tax

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

Wow. That’s just brutal.

A locust will need to go to Princeton or Lytton to avoid the FBT! 🙂

Laibach
Member
Laibach

Locust can always jump as far as there is an advantage to do so.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Let them drive their gigantic SUVs.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

Funny – many of the locals here drive even bigger trucks. Completely unnecessary in a city.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

I think Princeton of Lytton would be more than happy to get some HAM for a change. If you’re a realtor there you probably survive on KD and dog food.

Strata Hacker
Guest
Strata Hacker

IMO this is useless. Very few locust buyers in FV. It’s all locals fleeing the invasion.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

incorrect. HAM has been buying up farmland all over gr vanc and fraser valley

Strata Hacker
Guest
Strata Hacker

Not that I have seen. Farmland in Richmond but not Fv. In FV farms are going to Sikh developers mostly.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

And you have stats for this, yes?

Of course you fucking don’t.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Mike DeJong’s six properties are in the FV. I am sure he must be thrilled that their value went down overnight.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

I’m certainly thrilled about it.

Specuskeptic
Member

I’d like to know when/if he tries to dump them. Seriously. We’ll know the fat is in the fire if that happens. (Insert Rich Coleman joke here ____________)

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

If baffles me why they wouldn’t just make it province wide. Looks like Squamish is now included also, I believe it was exempt before. It would have been really nice if Whistler and the Sunshine coast were also included…I believe both are still exempt. I wonder how this will impact that new proposed ski resort just past Squamish should it be within the tax zone.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Maybe Whistler or Bust is a big NDP party insider.

patriotz
Member

” Looks like Squamish is now included also,”

Nope, Squamish and points north are in Squamish-Lilooet RD which is not in the FTB area.

https://www.slrd.bc.ca/

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Not sure you’re right on that. I actually followed your previous link and it showed that the GVRD is taxed and the GVRD shows Squamish listed…
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/taxes/property-taxes/property-transfer-tax/understand/additional-property-transfer-tax/bc-areas

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

They took Squamish out of GVRD, so you’re right. Had scratcher they’d extend all that way up the valley but not Squamish.

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

they might spike in Whistler though…

Laibach
Member
Laibach

Not sure if locust is attracted to snow and cold by definition but I guess it can adapt.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

There is no snow in China…all the pollution and carbon it put out have completely destroyed the weather system and there is only heat wave and drought there now. Going to be a dessert in a few decades.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

wait, we all know that it’s easy money and interest rates that’s driving the market though, right guys?????

right???

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

If you mean global easy money and global interest rates then yes, yes they are.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

yes, for more than a decade when people were saying that it’s lending and rates that are influencing the market and not HAM what they really meant was that it was HAM.

bearlogic.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Let me spell it out for you: if there is a credit crunch in China, Vancouver will suffer even more than Chinese cities.
No more easy cash in China means no more easy cash for corrupt bureaucrats, money launderers and the vast assortment of semi-legal millionaire migrants.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

What credit crunch? US and EU recovery ensures a reprieve from judgement day for another five years at least.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Actually, the opposite is true. the faster these major economic areas grow, the faster long-dated rates will go up. And the higher the pressure for central banks to raise short-term rates.
If you look at what happened over the past year in the US and project forward, you get rates closer to normal levels.
If that happens, no matter how good the economy, the credit crunch will be in full swing among leveraged people.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

We are talking credit crunch in China. Not here. Don’t see it happening right now.

Just me
Guest
Just me
Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

yes, i understand the rationalization HAM deniers are using to shift their position without taking responsibility for being wrong for almost 20 years.

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Shrinking GDP and growing credit in China can only go on for so long before an inflection point. Either their GDP shoots up to pay for all the credit, or their credit market crashes and burns. Due to demographic factors, their GDP growth is almost guaranteed to keep shrinking, the same can’t be said for the credit market. When this happens is anyone’s best guess. 1 year from now? 10 years? 100? that’s open for speculation. I’d be surprised if their credit market doesn’t have a huge crash within the next decade but I’m not a fortune teller.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

Why are Whistler and Squamish completely out of the new FBT and “spec tax” limits?
Have these towns been “engineered” to be locust heavens?

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

squamish is part of gvrd and subject to FBT but Whistler and areas like pemberton are not. complete and total bs imho. i seriously doubt these areas were simply forgotten.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

Yup, it’s BS…same as Sunshine Coast. Why would you include areas up past Hope and the OK, but not include Whistler and Sunshine Coast (which has gone crazy with foreign buying since the FBT originally introduced).
I wonder who in Gov owns recreational properties there?

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Why do you think Chinese bought up Sunshine Coast like crazy last year? Difference between successful people and loser extends beyond just always blaming others for your failure. It also includes being prepared well in advance.

Specuskeptic
Member

Does posting on an RE discussion board repeatedly angry AF qualify as a “winner” thing to do or a “loser” thing to do? You might want to have a good long look in the mirror before calling others loser…. Breath in, breath out. Be happy for others, be happy yourself.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

And gambling. It’s a gamble to guess where the line will be drawn one day?

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

they were betting heavily on Krusty winning the election and building her bridge to the sunshine coast which incidently would have given her a plausible excuse to spend a little more to complete highway to Woodfibre LNG. umm, well, that didn’t happen…

ostritch
Member
ostritch

Me too.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

You have stats for the Sunshine Coast, naturally?

Lost,... but not leased
Guest
Lost,... but not leased

Keep in mind that B-20 , OSFI, stress tests etc . have had an impact on local buyers…this came before the NDP budget which seems to go after the foreign buyers.

Locals first..foreigners next….then we review the sum total effect.

Ibuy3
Member
Ibuy3

The B20, stress tests probably have no full-scale effect until later, as there are pre-approvals floating around.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Disagree. Majority of buyers don’t even know what as B20 is. Those that are impacted later just go via a credit union or 30 yr mortgage.

B20 has had no effect. We are almost into month 3 of the rule changes. And nothing magically gonna change next month because if B20

bullwhip29
Guest
bullwhip29

some notable areas that remain FBT exempt (please correct/update if needed)

kamloops, vernon, penticton, summerland, naramata
whistler, pemberton, merritt, princeton
all of sunshine coast including powell river 😉
tofino, ucluelet, courtenay, duncan, ladysmith, chemainus

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Almost all locals buying in these places. It’s the boomers who are selling in Vancouver that are buying here. Spillover effect.

Lost,... but not leased
Guest
Lost,... but not leased
Seems like NDP used some data that determined places like Kelowna had a direct relation to Metro Vancouver sales. ie people sell home in Metro Vancouver and move to Kelowna. I have always maintained the Coquihalla Highway was built to funnel first wave of sellers to HAM to Okanagan. The Okanagan has little to offer in the way of real non RE related jobs, but its RE market was skewed. Places like Victoria have high prices, but seem to have little new construction., which we found strange. The NDP can’t target all places in BC, but this doesn’t mean it won’t amend the list. Intriguing Nanaimo as named by NDP…, but its RE market has gone a bit crazy. 2 storey homes with zero yards being built in south end of Nanaimo are selling in the $600,000- range.
Oracle
Guest
Oracle

That’s why Abbotsford went up like crazy. Indians selling in Metro Vancouver and buying 2 in the valley.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

What’s an Indian?

Lost,... but not leased
Guest
Lost,... but not leased

Q: Why do Indians hate snow?

A: Cause its white and on their land.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Man your a dumb redneck. Indians are people from India living here. Chinese are people from China etc.

Canada is a just an economic region nowadays. A country? hahaha

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

uhhhh…someone from India? What’s a Canadian?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Person falling further behind.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

why can’t they target the entire province? simply make all policy province wide. Problem solved.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Golden? 100 Mile house? Prince George?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Concerns:

1) Any foreign national that sends a BC application to immigrate is exempt from the FBT. This includes foreign students.

2) the Spec tax will exempt foreign students and fake TFWs as this is their primary residence. Big problem.

3) Farmland free for all.

4) Taps wide open to temp and permanent immigration – Federal matter. But BC can restrict number of foreign students by capping institution numbers.

5) Not clamping down on people who own 3+ homes. Need spec tax of 5% on third home.

6) Gov should own presale registry. Not Bob Rennie.

7) Show us stats if new housing registry going to catch cap gains evaders.

8) Presales gongshow continues.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

Wait a sec… Isn’t the FBT linked to your citizenship and the spec tax linked to your T4? I don’t think locusts can dodge both taxes at the same time.

Don’t forget that if the immigration application is refused, they’re stuck to pay the FBT. Big gamble.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Foreign students and anyone with a pulse who can get a work permit are exempt.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

For the spec tax, if you have a work permit that’s great, but you have to actually work and pay hight enough taxes to be exempt.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Exactly. The tax goes after people who declare unrealistically low incomes. In fact, they explicitly mentioned in press conferences that some people declare incomes that are lower than their property taxes. This is designed to go exactly after those people.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

I guess next trick is that satellite families will swap houses with other satellite families and claim they are renters, thus exempting their houses from the tax.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

The rent would have to be 2%+ of the value of the house. It’s doable but not practical. A 5,000,000$ house would need to have a 100,000$ rent.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Wrong. Details haven’t been released. Primary residence of foreign workers and foreign students means no tax.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

What if it’s their primary residence? Then not.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

9) You are a loser.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

Well done NDP!

I will be the first to say they completely surprised me and did FAR more than I expected.

People will say it is not enough but as many here have said it changes the tone. BC RE is no longer open for business for speculators and dirty money.

I expect HAM and Dirty HAM to move onto greener pastures.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Duh…consider that Whistler was not part of the FBT! Now, let’s wait and see if you will say the same thing after condo prices for a 300 sq ft 1br goes up another 20% this year.

Whistler or Bust?
Guest
Whistler or Bust?

I really don’t know why they exempted Whistler? Could be because most foreign ownership is Americans who actively use or rent their places. Empty homes are not a widespread problem there.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

really? I see tons of homes sitting empty during the shoulder seasons, and empty during weekdays in peak season. Those that are not empty are also often AirBnB / VRBO types, or charging nosebleed rents housing the seasonal foreign workers.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Well done Whistler, for keeping an open mind.

You’re not as partisan as I thought, maybe not at all.

Specuskeptic
Member

Agreed. Wondering if this little microcosm can be extrapolated out to the general public. If traditionally staunchly anti NDP folks can be persuaded onside (not saying anyone here has, or that they’ll be voting for them next time), I’m wondering if this budget will move some poll numbers for them to get even more ballsy.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

It will definitely help. I was always a life long NDP hater, but they were the best shot at tackling the only issues that I really cared about. Especially if PR passes, I still might vote Green next election depending on how the new few years unfold with housing.

Hyper-mega-Bull
Member
Hyper-mega-Bull

can victoria airport handle flights to china or are upgrades needed?

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Why would anyone want to go to that hellhole again?

Shut It Down Already
Member
Shut It Down Already

China vows to crack down on funeral strippers

Some hire them to boost numbers as high attendance seen as a way of honouring the deceased

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-funeral-strippers-crack-down-rural-attract-mourners-death-a8220866.html

Lost,... but not leased
Guest
Lost,... but not leased

Oh good…
…….the non original SIDA is back !

Shut It Down Already
Member
Shut It Down Already

Blue dot, remember?

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

You’re a moron.

Shut It Down Already
Member
Shut It Down Already

Get lost faker. You’ll have to do better than your teal dot. Nice try loser.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

At least you’re enjoying yourself, Oracle.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

And this has to do with Vancouver RE how? I thought we are supposed to stick to RE only for until the FFFA?

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

Irony flies over your head like a swarm of locusts.

CRA221
Guest
CRA221

Just got a flyer in my mailbox today from New Coast Realty. It’s red with Chinese characters and says that “many buyers are coming to Vancouver this season.”

Clearly this was printed and mailed before these latest changes.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

Keep it. It might become a collection item one day.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Taking a stand against Vancouver’s real estate disaster
Terry Glavin on a B.C. budget that suggests the NDP is finally giving the province’s distorted real estate racket some long overdue attention

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/taking-a-stand-against-vancouvers-real-estate-disaster/

Another good article by Terry Glavin.

xhistory
Guest
xhistory

The quality of new housing stock might see a drop

We see ‘Muscle Car housing’ reach its limits, and the industry is now gonna give us Pintos and Mavericks, Pacers and Gremlins.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

For those saying I was wrong blah blah blah.

I need to see results. I want to see a 5- 10% correction at least in next 2 months to call this a success.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

do you take great pleasure in annoying the fuck out of everybody on this blog?

AngloMan
Member
AngloMan

Oracle takes great pleasure in talking out of his/her/it’s ring for sure.
I skip everything it says – absolutely nothing of any value to be heard.
If Oracle sounds right about something, it a lucky guess……

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

What would this blog be without me.

Specuskeptic
Member

Fact-based, for the most part. Get over yourself.

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

97% more factual and 72% less annoying.

99.9% less annoying if AIDS and space leave with you.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

Dumb racist likes his echo chamber.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

A common theme seems to be you just don’t like south Asians and Asians. Even when some are bears and others are bulls.

Specuskeptic
Member

Starting to think that. Troll by definition. Maybe time to just ignore. If I notice people ignoring, I will too.

Specuskeptic
Member

Fuck that. My new policy is to ignore. Please help keep me on course. Any 12 step plans for troll resisting?

Specuskeptic
Member

How much does it cost to rent all the back hoes and cranes to keep moving those goal posts around?

ostritch
Member
ostritch

So if I live in Hong Kong and I keep an apartment empty here, how do you collect the tax from me?

patriotz
Member

Don’t have to. Property goes to tax sale.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

They’re going to force a sale of my property? Because I owe a 3% tax? And the courts will agree?

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

one way or another they will pay eventually when the house is sold either forced or voluntary…though if it’s 30 years from now maybe tax owing will be more than the value of the home if HPI inflation lags the tax rate, which could very well be the case, at least over the next 10 years.

YVR
Guest
YVR

You can have 3 years to be in arrears for any amount and then it goes to auction.

We hold an auction each November called the “tax sale”. At the tax sale, properties with three years of unpaid property taxes are offered for sale by auction.

http://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/auction-of-tax-sale-property.aspx

ostritch
Member
ostritch

I guess they’ll just pay it then. They’re pretty rich and other countries may join in greater taxation for foreign buys pretty soon.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

Yes.

AngloMan
Member
AngloMan

You know what would be truly amazing?
If all the folks on this blog that repeatedly banged on about how the NDP would do nothing, would hold their hand up and say – ‘I got that wrong’, rather than either just flip flop their position/deconstruct the NDP’s proposition/or pump the libs (YVR) in a vain attempt to save face!
BPOM and others, that were patient enough to wait for the budget and see, Kudus to you.
All NDP bashers, you can now eat your words – you were all Waaaaaay off……….
Amazing indeed, now let’s see who has got any integrity……………

I won’t hold my breath

Lost,... but not leased
Guest
Lost,... but not leased

Nobody on this blog or elsewhere has any idea of how the NDP initiatives will shake down.

It will take months before we can analyze the results.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

In that case, I think I’ll wait a few months before making my purchase, said the buyers

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Devil is in the details. FBT has huge loopholes. Spec tax can be a dud with exemptions.

I’m holding the NDP to the fire until I see results. Nothing has been done so far. All talk.

Now they saying action in fall??? Why wait???

backwardsevolution
Guest
backwardsevolution

Do you actually ever sit back and just listen to yourself?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

People that complain and bitch the oldest get their way.

See how the homeowners did it the last 16 years? Speak up or suffer.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Loudest*

Best place on meth
Member
Best place on meth

“It will take months before we can analyze the results.”

True, but the point is that the NDP has taken real action and done 1000% more than the Libs ever would have.

This isn’t the end of it either. It took time to put together a comprehensive plan like this but going forward, any of these new measures can be tweaked and others added as needed.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Actually the foreign buyers tax legislation, the increase in property purchase tax for luxury properties and increased PST for high value vehicles are all Liberal initiatives. The NDP just tweaked them. The speculator tax is theirs.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Do you genuinely believe a Liberal government (Wilkinson or Clark) would have proposed similar measures to the ones we saw in this bufpdhet? Really?

patriotz
Member

“The NDP just tweaked them.”

The Liberals could have just tweaked them too – right before the election, and they probably would have won if they had.

Just me
Guest
Just me

I would probably have voted for a BC Libs party that was serious about triggering lower prices. Honest.

I think promoting ever higher prices in Greater Vancouver is a losing proposition for any politician. The sooner they realize it, the more successful they will be.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

I thought they would do nothing. Me.

However, they have NOT done anything YET.

NDP should release details on exemptions of 2% tax. Otherwise they haven’t really done anything. Just pleasing the naive.

And cancel the FBT exemption for foreign students.

People shouldn’t get their hopes up yet. Execution and teeth needed in legislation.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

+1

Bestplaceonearth
Guest
Bestplaceonearth

More than I thought they would do And more, i.e scraping the msp and making the small business pays for it. However, there’s no change for bears. They will continue bitching and whining.

AngloMan
Member
AngloMan

Of course its unknown how any of this will be done. The fact is they are putting their heads on the chopping board if they don’t follow through with what they propose.
The fact that they even came out with such an intensive proposition blindsided a lot of folks here, from what i have read this past few months.
Like i said ‘I won’t hold my breath’

YVR
Guest
YVR
Clearly the NDP changed their tune over the past few weeks. They went from Horgan openly stating they will protect home owners hard earned equity to Carol James stating she hopes prices get more affordable. You can’t have both. The change was due to pressure from Andrew Weaver IMO. Remember Weaver has to approve the budget. He has been the one calling for demand side action since August while the NDP danced around the issue and made no real commitments. With condo prices up 27% year over year public sentiment also probably factored in there. The NDP had no choice. I give them credit because overall the budget looks good even outside the housing stuff. Again Weaver played a roll there not allowing the $10 day care to put the province into a deficit. Good thing we have Weaver in… Read more »
AngloMan
Member
AngloMan

OMFG!!!!! YVR giving NDP credit???!!!

Sounds almost like an ‘I got that wrong’…………….. but not quite 😉

YVR
Guest
YVR

Sorry I missed your predictions. Oh wait you only make them after the fact. Pure genius.

AngloMan
Member
AngloMan

No – you can go back and check if you wish – I said wait until you hear what is in the budget.
What I didn’t do was bang on for months about how the NDP have failed everyone, whilst trying to keep the Dead Donkey that is the BC Liberals alive as the coffin nails are being put in.
Check yourself my Lib pumping friend…………….

YVR
Guest
YVR

Prices are up 27% year over year. Are you saying that is a good thing and should not be criticized?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

He was not Lib pumping. Not was I. If you had critical thinking skills, you would seee we were the few who openly pressured the NDP. Do you really think you would have got this little change if it weren’t for people like us?

Angloman2
Guest
Angloman2

Omfg, you think you were the two people who caused the NDP to come up with this plan by “openly pressuring them”!!!!????
That is the most ridiculous thing I have read on VCI in ten years
ROTFLMAO

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

People change who they support based on policy changes.

Only dummies keep voting for a name of a party.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

You’re partly right on the pressure from Weaver, but it wasn’t their fear of him not rubber stamping their budget that did the trick, it was the poll numbers. Ever since Weaver started to openly criticize their lack of action on housing, his poll numbers surged to the point where he was neck and neck with Horgan. Horgan’s fear of losing his hard earned home equity suddenly seamed less important than losing his job.

Just me
Guest
Just me

You never give due credit to Eby. But he is the guy behind the whole architecture of the budget. Without him, the plan would not be half good.

If you read the budget carefully, you can see that it is designed so that any escape route leads to a different tax for Chinese millionaires. He is literally closing in on them. That is Eby’s doing. He is a smooth operator, and he set his mind to it.

Probably he had to also fight some cabinet colleagues and other NDP members, who thought this was too ambitious and dangerous. The NDP owes Eby a debt of gratitude: they just became hugely more popular in Metro Vancouver and much of BC.

kabloona
Member
kabloona

Eby wrote it, and Carol James read it….

😉

patriotz
Member
First of all the “protecting equity” line is just BS that any politician would say and should be ignored as I pointed out before the budget. The NDP repeatedly said that comprehensive changes would take time and would come in the budget. The premier declined to mention what specific policies the government would be implementing in the new year, but said it would be a mix of measures designed to increase supply and reduce demand in the housing market. “Carole James is working as Minister of Finance on the demand side, trying to keep prices down, the explosion of costs in the Lower Mainland in the last three years has been quite astounding, and everyone knows that,” he said. There you have a clear commitment from Horgan in December to implement demand side measures, which we got 2 months later.… Read more »
YVR
Guest
YVR

So we should ignore some comments but take others as gospel? Suck and blowing. We only got a hint of action on the demand side in December after Weaver had been going public for 4 months demanding action.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Yeah. Changed me from definitely voting NO in referendum to maybe voting NO. Now depends on details of the spec tax and blind trusts. Etc.

KickThemOut
Member
KickThemOut

Yes, they are so patient that it only took 10 or 12 years, and a quadrupling or quintupling of prices, and daily anger shouting death to Chinese ’til they are blue in the face to get something that might not even work, and more likely to drive their entry 300 sq ft 1br condo another 20%+ out of their reach this year….

yes, definition of success indeed.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

They HAVE done nothing.

In 8 months they have SAID many things. This week they SAID mouthful.

It only counts as DOING when it turns out to be comprehensive, fair, impactful, etc.

Fast Ferries people. Fast Ferries.

paulb
Member
Active Member

New
178
Price Change
33
Sold
146
TI:8285

http://www.clivestevepaul.com

Boom
Guest
Boom

Wife is real estate agent assistant….several collapsed sales today. Hmmm

Doomcouver
Guest
Doomcouver

Let the panic begin….

ostritch
Member
ostritch

Come on! More details or I call BS.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

The stampede to the exits will be triggered by the stampede to the exits.

Put another way, the existence of lions is irrelevant to the herd’s movement.

It’s the existence of herd members who have *noticed* the lions that triggers the panic and ensuing charges off of cliffs.

Also it doesn’t hurt when a few of the complacent get eaten alive in full view of the rest.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

On the topic of locusts moving out of the FBT zones:

Other than Whistler and the Sunshine Coast, I don’t see locusts sweeping the province like a plague for many reasons:

First, locusts like be among their own for social/dating/breeding reasons and there’s no community big enough to harbor them.
Second, locals won’t be as polite as Vancouverites and when they start showing up municipalities might fight back quickly.
Third, even if they move, they’ll get bored very fast. No nail spa, no massage parlor, no nothing…

Lost,... but not leased
Guest
Lost,... but not leased

NDP budget duly noted a need for co-operative effort with other Gov’t agencies.

Read an article on CRA going after waiters and waitresses in Maritimes…ie TIP $$…many of us mused about this. Seems that in this era of debit etc…there are electronic records that can be sourced by CRA. Is this a sign CRA will avoid the big fish…..again…and terrorize the little ones?

NDP initiatives will be rather toothless unless other agencies treat this seriously and cooperate.

Just me
Guest
Just me

I agree that without Federal government support Eby’s plan will falter. We need to close Federal loopholes (starting from the Quebec program and the lack of CRA enforcement).
Trudeau has been greased by Richmond millionaires quite a few times. Will he have the guts to bite the hands that fed him?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

His foundation is overflowing.

Just me
Guest
Just me

The problem at the federal level is the strong pro-China stance of Trudeau, Mc Callum, and company. They have shown no interest in stopping the invasion of corrupt millionaires.

Shut It Down Already (original)
Guest
Shut It Down Already (original)

Sebastian sounds like a fucking Nazi.

Laibach
Member
Laibach

Municipalities will need very strong repellent to treat locusts, save the land and prevent the epic disaster.

YVR
Guest
YVR
AngloMan
Member
AngloMan

Bruce Allen should worry about Bryan Adams come back tour, and leave political analysis to political analysts, geez

YVR
Guest
YVR

Yes it would it suck to ban all foreigners completely and really crack down on money laundering like he said. That may hurt New Coast Realty who are really good people.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

When I first read your comment, I assumed Bruce was a pumper and worried about his equity, but I listened to what he said and liked it a lot. He’s says we should ban all buying in BC by anybody that doesn’t live and pay taxes here and seize empty home and ban all immigration for at least 2 years so we can take a breath. I must say, I like those ideas a lot. The fact that he can even say those things without being fired for racism shows we’ve come a long way in this province in the past few years on this issue.

Laibach
Member
Laibach

Right, if foreign shit in any form and shape (locust, money, smurfs, housewives, students) would be prevented/banned/disintegrated Canadians would get their right to homes back.

patriotz
Member

” He’s says we should ban all buying in BC by anybody that doesn’t live and pay taxes here ”

You mean people like Bryan Adams? And banning all immigration? He should stick to managing rock stars and leave public policy alone.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Bryan Adams was born here as I am sure you know. But yes he should pay extra taxes for keeping a home here if he is not paying income taxes here.

Just me
Guest
Just me

I don’t see what is wrong with it. yes, he should pay for the privilege of owning something he doesn’t use. Use it or lose it.
Alternatively, he can rent it out and use that income (generated in BC) to offset part of the tax. I suppose that is how it will work.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

But what happens when Asians are 75% of the lower mainland.

The indigenous white culture going to be screwed then. Just go to a high school where white kids have become the minority and see the exclusion. Gonna happen mainstream.

But it will be too late to do anything.

Just me
Guest
Just me

This is not about race, it is about money.
Many long-term residents of Asian heritage have voted NDP and regularly support the move towards lower house prices.

Asians who live and work in BC dislike millionaire migrants and speculators just as much as anyone else. The race card is only used by the RE lobby to shut down dissent, and it is not as effective as it was a few years ago.

See Saw
Guest
See Saw

That’s because Bruce Allen is a loud-mouth and an asshole.

Sebastien
Member
Sebastien

Carole James to potential underwater homeowners: Go Pound Sand!

https://twitter.com/robshaw_vansun/status/966423016161738752?s=20

YVR
Guest
YVR

.@carolejames reiterates goal of NDP budget housing measures is to lower price of homes and adjust market.

Can anyone think of a reason why the NDP would not have made statements like this prior to the budget? Like on week one and set the tone to cool the market last Summer/Fall rather than after prices have already run up 20%?

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

If you are going to start whining about the past, I assume you’re going to also critique the Liberals for their 10 years of inaction?

Just me
Guest
Just me

I like the element of surprise in all this.
There is something to be said for hitting fast and in unexpected ways.

patriotz
Member

“There is something to be said for hitting fast and in unexpected ways.”

Surprising and unexpected only for those who thought the NDP was lying in their election platform.

YVR
Guest
YVR

If I recall you were predicting a “politically correct” budget several weeks ago. Is that how you would describe it? Were you lying again?

patriotz
Member

“If I recall you were predicting a “politically correct” budget several weeks ago”

I said the exact opposite. Honestly, you need to take a breather.

Horgan has shown he’s willing to tell the ideologues and other usual suspects to take a hike. I think anyone expecting to see a “politically correct” approach to housing in the budget will be disappointed.

http://vancouvercondo.info/2018/01/friday-free-for-all-january-12th-2018.html#comments

YVR
Guest
YVR

“There is something to be said for hitting fast and in unexpected ways.”

Actually that would be complete incompetence since prices went up 20% due to this surprise which serves no purpose.

Just me
Guest
Just me

The sums are drawn at the end. Let’s wait and see where prices sit two years from now. That is what matters, and will be a test of these policies.

If these taxes do not sort the effect of lowering prices, I suspect there will be more taxes. The public opinion has had enough of living in a resort for Chinese millionaires.

patriotz
Member

“Can anyone think of a reason why the NDP would not have made statements like this prior to the budget?”

Because that’s called a “budget leak” and the NDP would have deservedly been given hell for it.

YVR
Guest
YVR

Liar. Stating what your policy that will take measures to reduce housing prices not protect home owners equity is not budget leak.

Just me
Guest
Just me

Why didn’t Christy Clark warn RE agents of her FBT?

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Do you believe the shit you just wrote??

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Because of the potential backlash. Their own internal polling flashed a suicide warning if if they didn’t act on housing.

Note they didn’t include a list of exemptions for the spec tax. What are they waiting for?? Delaying for what??

Just me
Guest
Just me

She said what most NDP voters really want: lower prices.
The moaning and whining of the RE lobby will be loud. What about underwater borrowers? Why lowering the value of housing for homeowners? What about the hard won equity?
Nonsense. Millionaires and speculators had free rein for 10years, while the vast majority of the population struggled to the point of despair.
There are other ways to make money and contribute to society. Nobody forces buyers to gamble their money in Vancouver RE. Houses are for living, not gambling.

Bag it and tag it
Member
Bag it and tag it

“The moaning and whining of the RE lobby will be loud”…RE lobby is toothless now that they can’t donate.

Oracle
Guest
Oracle

Under the table they can.

YVR
Guest
YVR

The RE lobby is not moaning. They get 27% increase in prices year over year plus no foreign buyers tax on presales.

patriotz
Member

“Carole James to potential underwater homeowners: Go Pound Sand!”

Don’t worry homedebtors, someone’s on your side. Guess who?

Work with financial institutions and the federal government to develop protections for recent homebuyers who are negatively affected by market cooling initiatives.

Burnabonian
Guest
Burnabonian

You can’t protect someone against equity not being there anymore.

It’s like protecting someone against not getting a blowjob.

Donkey
Guest

All these budget talks bs. Say you bought 1b1b condo 3,4 years back…built $300-$400k equity and try to move up maybe 2b2b or TH, you can’t. You will not be qualified. So you are stuck and can’t sell. If you have $400k and can’t get $600k mortgage then that’s problem. Don’t even look at those $2, 3 mil homes. That’s gone too far. Even with 50% collapse, which is very unlikely, you are still too far from it. Policies need to allow some transactions but as of now its stuck. I for one won’t give a damn if $3mil home goes for sale at $2mil.

ostritch
Member
ostritch

No one is “stuck” in that way in reality. Between a 1-bd and 2-bed house, things happen. Stocks go up, inheritances, wage increases, promotions, marriage etc, etc. You are thinking like a donkey.