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Friday Free-for-all! March 23rd 2018

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516 Comments

It’s the end of another work week and that means it’s time for another Friday Free-for-all! This is our regular end of the week news round up and open topic discussion thread for the weekend, here are a few recent links to kick off the chat:

–NDP with 5 point lead
–Fed rate hikes
–Who will run for Mayor?
–Not concerned about debt levels
–3 in 4 houses sold below asking
–AI replacing RE agents
–

So what are you seeing out there? Post your news links, thought and anecdotes in the comments below and have an excellent weekend!

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Lost,... but not leased

Hi…I’m NDP

The dog ( woulda ) ate my homework,
……….. but foreign locust ate my dog…..

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UBC in crisis

A SFH price increase: a boomer’s late entry.

3775 W 12th Avenue, Vancouver
Jan 19:$3,380,000
Mar 12: $3,790,000
Change: 410000.00 12%

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bestplaceonearth

I thought the stupid bears said mortgage default is on the rises across the country
https://www.cba.ca/mortgages-in-arrears

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Name

US home prices post 6.2 per cent annual gain in January:

http://www.news1130.com/2018/03/27/us-home-prices-post-6-2-per-cent-annual-gain-in-january/

The price of houses is easily outpacing wage growth and inflation.
Prices rose 12.9 per cent in Seattle, 11.1 per cent in Las Vegas and 10.2 per cent in San Francisco. Chicago and Washington D.C. posted the weakest annual home-prices gains: 2.4 per cent.
Homes for sale are scarce. It would take just 3.4 months to snap up the supply of available homes at the current sales rate, down from an average since 2000 of 6 months.

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hmnhrmmm

Just thought I’d share this hilarious video about Vancouver real estate, back in 2015. Things have gotten much worse since then too. 🙁

Video is short, 1:21. Probably the funniest 90 seconds of your day today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcAMtvNfp78

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Combat Roach

BlueLily – “White trash Losers can’t stand the fact immigrants live a better life than them”

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southseacompany

“The Canadian Mortgage Machine Fires Up Again, As Debt Levels Resume Growth”, Better Dwelling

https://betterdwelling.com/the-canadian-mortgage-machine-fires-up-again-as-debt-levels-resume-growth/

“Canadian mortgage numbers are back to growth, after taking a very brief vacation. Bank of Canada (BoC) numbers show outstanding household credit continued to rise in February. The trend was driven by an increase in mortgage balances. The increase comes after last month’s decline, which was the first monthly decline in over six years.”

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southseacompany

“Canada can’t break its debt habit, and it’s killing growth”, Financial Post

http://business.financialpost.com/opinion/philip-cross-canada-cant-break-its-debt-habit-and-its-killing-growth

“The marked slowdown in Canada’s economic growth reflects the economy’s failure to make the transition from household and government spending to exports and business investment that the Bank of Canada has tried to engineer for years.”

“The Bank of Canada wants to make this transition because household and government spending growth has been partly sustained by more borrowing, leaving it vulnerable to higher interest rates when the bank begins to normalize interest rates.”

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Just me

The real outrage yesterday was the decision of Richmond city council to delay a vote on the ban of mansions on ALR.

The farmers won the day: they will not lose the privilege to cash in on the sale of ALR land to developers and Chinese money launderers. they are making millions out of this racket. And nobody has so far had the guts to stand up to them.

Mostly from one ethnic group, so again all kind of race accusations are being used to deflect criticism of this criminal scam.

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KickThemOut

So basically you want to strip away property rights and dictate what other people can or can’t do on their private property. Property that you can’t live on anyways because ALR isn’t for residential until taken out of ALR. If it is such an injustice, nothing prevents you from buying the land so no mansion will be build on it!

Granted you then have to farm the land as well and I’m sure you will bitch and complain about that as well. All in the name of democracy and human rights too?

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bestplaceonearth

Carol James said it’s only fair for the homeowners to contribute more to her tax grab scheme. Well, how about asking the freeloaders to work a bit harder to become homeowners! It’s fair too!

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KickThemOut

But then the freeloaders actually have to work for that house they want, rather than having it being handed to them. That’s just too much work for them! Typing away furious in their mom’s basement is hard enough for them!

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bestplaceonearth

“Typing away furious in their mom’s basement is hard enough for them!”

That would hurt their fingers; then it’s time to go down to the “the pain society” store.

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Just me

ALR is for farming. You cannot build Airbnb hotels on it.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

Please provide evidence for your assertions regarding “outrage” primarily coming from a single ethnicity to the extent that it would be statistically significant given the make-up of the group.

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Just me

The South Asian community is over represented and well organized in the ALR.

See submissions to council.

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bullwhip29

Hello All! I certainly didn’t expect to be returning so soon, but this administration is full of surprises (and few answers), isn’t it?… After reviewing James’ “tweeks” from the last day or so, I am afraid to say that she seemed to take the bait rather easily and has opted for changes that put her even further behind the eight-ball. For starters, what previously appeared to be sweeping measures have now been effectively reduced to an annual surcharge on chinese owners (assuming they would even have to pay this spec tax if they rent out their homes). Secondly, by standing tall, pounding her fists and announcing these measures just weeks ago and now backtracking so easily after having received some less than flattering emails and messages, she has lost whatever credibility she might have had. I now suspect a serious… Read more »

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KickThemOut

So you approve of additional tax on landlords? That would do wonderful for our rental problems?

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southseacompany

“Palmerston home buyer disparaged for paying $600,000 over asking”, Globe & Mail https://www.theglobeandmail.com/real-estate/toronto/palmerston-home-buyer-disparaged-for-paying-600000-over-asking/article38310307/ “David Madani, senior Canada economist at Capital Economics, warns that he sees signs of a national house price correction. He believes the country may face a debt-driven deleveraging process this year. He calculates that the seasonally adjusted household debt-to-income ratio stood at 170 per cent in the fourth quarter, down from what was probably the peak at 170.2 in the second quarter of 2017. “The economist says that heavily-indebted households found out last year that a modest rise in interest rates can lead to significantly higher debt servicing costs. His bigger concern is that these large debts may have been used to finance speculation in real estate and bid home values up to what he considers ridiculously high levels.” “Although household assets have risen in value faster… Read more »

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KickThemOut

Just Me Senior?

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southseacompany

“London property slump most widespread since financial crisis”, The Guardian

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/mar/27/london-property-slump-most-widespread-since-financial-crisis

“House prices are falling in almost half of all London postcodes, according to new figures showing the most widespread collapse in property values across the capital since the 2008 financial crisis.”

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LS in Arbutus

Not to worry, it’s different here.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

What about all the rich foreigners?

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Just me

Still alive and well, Scheming ways to evade the new taxes.

Money from Asia is the main problem. It is also leveraged through conniving local banks.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

So why are prices dropping?

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Just me

Xi Jinping. Capital controls.

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Just me

“Who pays the tax:
Foreign speculators and satellite families:
Foreign demand and capital continue to put pressure on B.C.’s housing stock. Foreign owners and satellite families — households with high worldwide income that pay little income tax in B.C. — will be captured by the tax and will not be eligible for a primary residence exemption.”

“Foreign owners and satellite families can avoid the tax by renting their property. They will be able to offset a portion of the speculation tax with a non-refundable tax credit if they report income in B.C.”

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Just me

“When a property owner holds onto vacant homes and benefits from rising property value, that is speculation. This behaviour is taking homes out of the housing market, driving vacancy rates lower, and making it harder for British Columbians to find a place to live.
Those who own multiple properties in urban centres that they opt to not rent out or live in will be captured by the tax. British Columbians with vacant property in urban centres will be eligible for a non-refundable tax credit that offsets a total of $2,000 in speculation tax payable and is immediately applied against the speculation tax owing. For homeowners with multiple properties, the tax credit will only apply to one property.”

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bestplaceonearth

Are you dumb or are you stupid? Didn’t you read someone else posted earlier, just rent out a basement suite, and leave the rest of the house empty – there you have it! Quit chasing your tail.

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Just me

I don’t think that renting a basement suit is sufficient. They will get prorated taxes in that case. Pay on what you don’t rent out.

Incidentally, this is the end of high end flipping: you canno rent for a full year if you trade it frequently.

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bestplaceonearth

You seem to have answer for everything else but your own problem! Are you sure you are not a paid NDP shill?

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Shut It Down Already (original)

Please provide a link that states it will be prorated and how it will be calculated (bedrooms, floor area, number of fucking windows, etc)

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Oracle

Dude are you that dumb? They’ve effectively cancelled the tax.

$200 million in revenue?

Example: if the average 2nd home is worth $800,000, the tax collected will be $2000. They would need to tax 100,000 homes that much to get to $200 million. Reread that.

100,000 homes!

Now this is without exemptions.

Are NDP supporters really that dumb that they can’t even do simple math???

Show me how this works.

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Whistler or Bust?

You voted for them.

Lest we forget.

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Just me

Yes. And so far so good.

If I ever feel they are taking a different road on housing, I will vote for someone else.

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Just me

I care more about taxing houses that are 3 million. Every little helps. Start charging the Satellite Families. Nobody has had the guts to explicitly targeting them.

If the market picks up again, they will jack up the rates. One thing is sure: the market is under scrutiny, any runup will trigger additional interventions, “Investors” have been warned.

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Just me

And David Eby is in Otrawa today. Have a guess what he is advocating for?

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bestplaceonearth

Of course, you care that the seniors are taxed to dead with their limit incomes, and you said they can always sell and move. Well, why should they have to move from the homes they grow old for decades. Meanwhile, why don’t you tell your NDP to hand off the money from people’s pockets.

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Just me

Sorry. The tide has changed. Yesterday was a good day: there will be more protests once people realize that housing is not a sacred cow any more. Taxing houses is the fair and honest thing to do.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

Everybody who is richer than Just Me must be taxed. It’s only fair.

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Just me

Not everybody. Just the people making money by hoarding housing and making idle land investments.

I am all in favour of lower income taxes.

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bestplaceonearth

Stop your jealousy and work harder! You would get there, but you will not work harder and you will not get there! It’s the straits of the freeloaders.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

It’s too late, he didn’t try hard enough at school. Now everybody else is to blame. Especially those who worked hard.

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Oracle

You are clueless.

Yesterday was when the Bears lost. Get your head out of the sand. .

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Oracle

What good is that to you?

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KickThemOut

I thought cheaters don’t report their worldwide income?

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Oracle

“Professional Tenant Service”.

We will rent out your house for 6 months to a person that travels the globe. So might not be there often.

“Empty home furniture company”

Loopholes you can drive a 747 through.

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Time to go

Still a cost associated with both loopholes you mention. No more free rides. That should deter enough to move the needle. Hopefully…

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Oracle

The low end is going to rocket higher in price. Example is a $600,000 condo or townhome.

With $2000 credit everyone gets, the remaining tax is $1000 per year.

Hahahahaha. $1000 per year if you leave it empty. A few days on AirBnB can make that back.

It’s back folks. HAM. “I buy 4 and my wife buy 3”.

A $500,000 starter condo has only $500 in tax payable. 2 days on Airbnb. Hahaha

Wow. This flip flop is bigger than Site C.

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Oracle

Starter condos (500K) in Kelowna will face a $500 annual bill if NONE of the loopholes exploited.

$500 fucking dollars. Yeah that is going to make Speculators shake in their boots.

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Oracle

In truth, most condos are less than $400K there. So $0 payable after $2000 credit.

Where are the NDP apologists? I thought I was wrong on Budget day but guess not.

If these same guys keep supporting PR and NDP, then you guys even bigger fools.

Let this Province implode.

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Laibach

Oracle, send them a letter and educate them. Those are mainly honest good Canadians without a clue what third world scumbag is capable of and how things work out in the corrupted shitholes across the world.

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Oracle

After 1 year, all the NDP has done on housing is expand the FBT and up it to 20%. Loopholes remain.

What a monumental fail. If anyone still behind these guys, jokes are on you.

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Bestplaceonearth

Where is Just Me me the NDP paid shill? Aren’t you supposed to jump for joy? Now with some clarity, the sideliners are back hunting. Life is stink, right bears!

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Oracle

NDP and referendum are finished. My only questions are how rich did NDP insiders get and was this by design?

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Bestplaceonearth

I guess Carol James has been pressured by her own goons too hence the change.

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Oracle

$$$$$

Real estate won’t go down now with 50,000 new residents moving here each year now. Trudeau recently increased immigration.

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Just me

I am right here. And I do not think this is real back pedaling,

I am waiting to see how they define satellite families: that is key. Carry8ng costs of housing must be jacked up for investors, especially those who make money outside BC and move it here into RE.
It is clear that owning RE in Vancouver is going to get more expensive in taxes. It is just a matter of how much.

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Oracle

You got to be fucking kidding me?

The tax is useless now.

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YVR

“I am waiting to see how they define satellite families”

It is those foreigners who tell the BC government they have high worldwide income but do not pay BC income taxes. That is nobody. Do you think HAM is going to start declaring their worldwide income so they can pay the 2% tax when they do not declare it right now to CRA?

Foreign owners and satellite families — households with high worldwide income that pay little income tax in B.C. — will be captured by the tax and will not be eligible for a primary residence exemption

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/property-taxes/publications/is-2018-001-speculation-tax.pdf

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YVR

“And I do not think this is real back pedaling”

It is the definition of back peddling. Either you are really dumb or too partisan to admit it (probably both).

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Oracle

Just dumb.

Tell us Just me how many homes that cost $800,000 would need to be taxed to get to $200 million?

NDP lies.

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Just me

I was worried they would scrap the whole thing.
They did not. It is a foot in the door, now the tax exists. People know that further house price growth will trigger higher taxes.

Your are missing the point: house investments are not a one way bet any more.

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Whistler or Bust?

So what happens if the second home has a rental suite which is rented 365 days a year but the main house is used for holidays?

Boy these NDPers really screwed this up.

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YVR

There are a thousand ways to get around paying this now 0.5% tax. That is one of them. The tax is a joke. The NDP are a joke.

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Oracle

Yes they are. Not one person will end up paying this tax. It’s a delay tactic. Plus needs to be pulled on these guys now.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

With different tax rates depending on place of residence they’ll have zero excuse for not providing a breakdown of those who paid the tax and why. But I’m sure they’ll find a way of weasling their way out of it when it transpires that the people getting dinged the most are locals.

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Oracle

It’s not even 0.5%. The first $400,000 is exempt.

More like a 0.2% tax with a gazillion loopholes.

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YVR

Looks like your first $400K of home value of an empty home is exempt. Not just houses $400k and under. So a $800K house goes from $16k per year tax to $2k per year for a BC resident (HAM). Rent it 6 months on Air bnb and 100% exempt. Looks like my original prediction of the NDP basically doing nothing has come true.

British Columbians with a vacant second home will be eligible for a non-refundable tax credit that will be applied against the speculation tax. The credit will offset a total of $2,000 in speculation tax payable. This means British Columbians will not pay tax on a second home valued up to $400,000.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4106630/speculation-tax-changes-bc-government/

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YVR

No wonder Eby took off to Ottawa for the announcement. The most embarrassing flip flop in BC history.

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Whistler or Bust?

When will the Greens end this joke?

Lets go to the polls.

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Best place on meth

The balcony muppets are back!

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Whistler or Bust?

Never left. I just gave them the benefit of the doubt. That time is up. They have made a horrible mess.

Lets go to polls and let the voters decide.

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Oracle

I’m voting NO in referendum. Made up my mind. These guys playing the people.

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Bag it and tag it

Who do you plan to vote for in the next election Oracle? I assume it must be the Green party since you don’t like the NDP because they are not doing enough, and surely you don’t like the Liberals because the created this mess and didn’t nothing to fix it…right?
And if that’s the case then why would you vote NO since the Greens would benefit the most from PR. What say you?

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Whistler or Bust?

He voted NDP. You will not get a straight answer.

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Oracle

I did. But never again.

And I will vote NO in referendum. Then force Greens to call election.

Will help Liberals win now. At least you know what they stand for.

NDP assholes starting with James just fucked their base. Time to end their careers.

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Oracle

No. Voting Liberal since I have to buy in Valley. That’s why I’m pissed. NDP basically lied.

Now time to evade taxes like everyone else. Going to vote for end to funding of seniors care homes, Medicare, and public education.

Fuck public programs. Let this place become a third world. .

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YVR

So you are happy with the changes? The NDP has said 99% if BCers will not pay the tax at all. You know all those BCers who live in Richmond. That should be effective in reducing prices. You were lied to.

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YVR

More than 99 per cent of British Columbians will not pay the tax, James said. “Only those who own multiple properties and leave them empty in major cities will be asked to contribute,” James said.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-real-estate-speculation-tax-scaled-back-exemptions-for-rural-areas-1.23213719

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YVR

The highest rate of two per cent of assessed property value will apply to foreign owners. Canadians and permanent residents not living in B.C. will pay one per cent. British Columbians who are Canadians or permanent residents with second homes in major urban centres will pay 0.5 per cent.

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YVR

Homeowners can apply for an exemption based on “special circumstances,” James said. This could include seniors moving into a long-term care facility or people who inherit a property after a death in the family. People who own condos who are barred from renting due to strata rules will be grandfathered in, James said.

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YVR

At first, it was proposed to be paid up front and then offset by a non-refundable income tax credit to be applied in that fiscal year, potentially months later… B.C. residents will be given an upfront tax credit program that will give them the bill, if any, without having to go through the income tax system. The credit will be up to $2,000, said James, but only applicable to one extra property.

http://vancouversun.com/news/politics/b-c-speculation-tax-changed-to-exempt-gulf-island-properties

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YVR

Weaver said in a news release. “We look forward to the full details of the legislation to ensure it truly limits unintended consequences. We will continue to advocate for bolder policies to address speculation, including a flipping tax, the closing of the bare trust loophole and a New Zealand-style ban on foreign capital.”

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Oracle

Dude, you’re not going to defend the NDP on this are you? Do the math. It is full of lies.

The tax is dead. They are playing the dumb NDP supporters who can’t do math.

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Oracle

We will end it this fall with a NO vote. Let’s put the Greens back a generation.

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YVR

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/speculation-tax-government-update-exemptions-james-1.4593681
Comments from the article:
“it is okay, no one really thought they would stand up and make things tough….”
“Back pedal much? Oh right they are just politicians who want to stay in power. Different day same garbage.”
“Comrade Horgan appears to have stolen a page right out of Justin’s playbook: uttering tax threats for weeks/months, angering thousands, and finally partially backpedaling. But the former supporters are likely gone for good. Not a wise choice.”
“I think it’s time we elect a totally green government in BC. Like Notley the BC NDP are selling out to minority groups, big money and corporate influence and all at at a huge cost to those that call BC home.”
“BC following Trudeau’s policies of lack of planning/ organization . understanding in implementing the simplest initiatives of more Tax Grabs.”

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Bestplaceonearth

NDP is the author of all disasters at the get go. No one with a brain would vote them to office, well, apparently some of the people did. And they have been flipfloped on every thing be it LNG or site c or pipeline or this cashgrab tax. Dr. Green is no better, biting his lips instead of bringing down this government.

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myraandrews

If a speculator made a profit from flipping a property the gain is taxed as income and not as a capital gain.

If you rented out the property and held on to it for a while any gain on the sale is taxed as a capital gain.

I recall back in the early 1980’s Revenue Canada started auditing real estate sales to look for quick resales.

If the CRA believes that you purchased the property with the intent of selling it for a profit, it will likely consider it as business income.

http://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/mortgages-real-estate/flipping-houses-expect-to-face-100-tax-on-your-profits

http://madanca.com/articles/entry/taxes-on-flipping-canadian-real-estate-capital-gains-vs-business-income/

http://taxsolutionscanada.com/is-house-flipping-considered-capital-gains-or-business-income/

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Lost,... but not leased

So..let me get this straight…

NDP felt their mandate was to stop speculation, increase affordability, etc. etc.
They didn’t want “locals” to get pushed out…lots of concern re: laundered $$$ etc.

So..what do they do?
Table a Budget over a month ago that most people have no clue either about and/or the details.
People (BC Residents) that have 2nd homes, cabins etc. in “certain” areas will be taxed…to the point many will have to sell.
The FACT that Whistler was exempt and still exempt, should be of concern.

NDP project approx. $200 million….really?..and if so,,what will be the collateral damage?

If did/didn’t know better,,,they seem to want to keep the locals in a state of flux while the bigger targets are conveniently ignored.

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Bob

If they really want to make it like most other cities in the world, what they should do is slap a property tax of 1% on appraised value on all properties, along with whatever taxes the cities charge. It’s criminal that property taxes are as low as they are.

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Shut It Down Already (original)

Commercial taxes are higher.

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Oracle

For better or worse, this tax does nothing.

Better to just cancel it rather than hire insiders for the new ‘ministry.’

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YVR

The NDP flip flop every month. This tax is meaningless now. The fact they reneged on 90% of the tax because of a few whiners shows how spineless the NDP are. Basically nobody will pay the 2% and renting your house out as an Airbnb for 6 months gets you out completely.

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Bob

New builds west side listing under 1k/sq feet whereas delusionists in River District and metrotown still listing for 1300/sq feet.

https://www.zolo.ca/vancouver-real-estate/6130-oak-street

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Oracle

NDP Done!

Referendum done and FAIL! Too bad Weaver.

0.5% for local HAM???? FOMO gonna be on fire now. There is no way prices go down now. No way.

Going to have to buy. Fuck these NDP Greens. Going Liberal just to throw these assholes out.

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Name

calm down buddy. you are going to hurt yourself.

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Oracle

BC Residents (Foreign students and recent Permanent residents) can continue to funnel foreign money in and “I buy 8” continues. And taxes only 0.5%.

Laughable. Might as well made it zero.

And all the condos in Abbotsford going to rocket up to $400,000 in a hurry.

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oncebittwiceshy

Well, stay in Surrey then. There are currently over 230 condos under $400,000 between Richmond and Langley and 70 of those are 2 bedroom.

i’m not sure whether you’re schizophrenic, a bull pretending to be a bear upset at possible higher prices or a bear sounding like a bull trying to push the market higher.

But, let me help you out. A lot of these specuvestors are local and they are living on leverage and average incomes. So, yes an additional .5% tax is going to bury them unless they sell. More inventory, B20, credit contraction and higher rates should make you a happy bear.

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Oracle

I can bet you anything that these changes mean zero impact on prices or rents. Watch the next 3 months.

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Bestplaceonearth

Wow, you talked like you know it. Half a percentage is gonna bury them? They will just jam this expense to the renters down the road. Bears will never be happy, they have been living in failure .

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Shut It Down Already (original)

Just put the tax on your HELOC.

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Disgruntled

I know a local specu Vester who owns about 10 properties all of which are full time rentals. Yes he is leveraged to the hilt and obviously it is for speculation but will he pay this tax? Definitely not since these are rented properties. This tax has zero bite.

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Oracle

Doesn’t even have to de late rental income to CRA or pay capital gains on sale. The system is going to be separate. Great loophole!

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Strata Hacker

What a dumb bear post.

You think 70 2 bedroom apartments is a lot for a population of 2-3 million? Plus all the 10 year visa holders?

I think you are bad at understanding math.

There is probably a demand for 10 times 20 times that many. Probably more.

You are deluded if you think those prices are headed lower.

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See Saw

The market is already collapsing, you idiot.

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Oracle

Go Fuck your mother you inbred

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SilentBob

Touchy.

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Whistler or Bust?

Stats? Proof?

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See Saw

Prove it otherwise, dolt.

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oncebittwiceshy

Lol, please buy Oracle. You might be the only “bull” that comes back on here to complain about the market collapse.

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Bestplaceonearth

Don’t bears bitch every day how miserable their lives are!

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Laibach

Tardfuck, you seem to bitch about bears every day much more than bears are bitching about anything at all. Ask your doctor about mental augmentation, you should definitely go for it.

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Name

B.C. asks for feds’ help to track cash sales of luxury vehicles

https://globalnews.ca/news/4106539/b-c-luxury-car-money-laundering/

more pro-active work by the BC NDP to stop money laundering by a certain group…

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Name

0:43 of embedded video: chineeze guy picking his nose in public.

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Lost,... but not leased

Where do you think wonton comes from ?

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Laibach

It is actually bitcoin mining over there ,

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