Spectrum I, II, III, & IV «

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Spectrum I, II, III, & IV

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Started 1 year ago by shawnchong
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shawnchong
Member

Hi everyone,

I've been reading VancouverCondo for a while now, but just signed up for the forums. My wife and I are currently living in Toronto, but will be moving to Vancouver in January, 2011, and of course, will rent until the prices drop like a rock.

I just had a question for you locals in the know... we have been looking online for rentals and have noticed that Spectrum comes up a lot. It's in a great location, and some of the units have very nice views.

It also seems that Spectrum probably has a lot of "investor units". Do you think it would be easy for us to secure a good rental unit there (for around $1,500/month or less... especially when "reluctant landlords" start renting out their places)... in light of the fact that on Craigslist it seems there are so many rentals available.

We plan to stay in a hotel for one or two weeks while searching for a place to rent. Is one week enough time?!

Thanks for any and all advice!
Shawn

Posted 1 year ago #
Daddy Fat Stax
Member

Hey Shawn, Vancouver prices won't be "dropping like a rock" anytime soon, so get that thought out of your head. What's going to happen is that prices are going to hold at around their current values for the next 2-3 years before climbing again. New developments are still coming online and selling out before ground is even broken. (2300 Kingsway is an example)

As for Spectrum. It is approximately 90% rentals and a lot of them are noisy inconsiderate international students. Be prepared for loud neighbors and plenty of warning letters from the strata for "excessive noise", "objects being thrown off balconies" and "elevator repairs".

Posted 1 year ago #
shawnchong
Member

Okay, well, prices dropping or going up aside...

Thank-you very much for your opinion on Spectrum!

Regardless of whether we want to buy or not, one must rent in a new city in order to get to know the place.

So... you're seriously not exaggerating? 90%?! Don't international students usually keep to themselves and are quiet?! Well, that's kind-of the impression we have of them here in Toronto... except when they go out in big groups - but that's not just the ones from abroad.

Have you lived there... pass by there everyday?

Hmm... after getting the tip-off from you, I found this article: http://condohype.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/spectrum-of-vandalism/

Thanks again, DFS!

Posted 1 year ago #
jesse
Member

The Spectra are large developments with relatively spartan suites. I don't think I'd call it convenient though it's technically in downtown. Anywhere in that neighbourhood you will have a wide mix of people living there so expect a crap shoot for your neighbours. I think in that respect it's no different than T.

I'd keep it in mind but there are dozens of buildings in the central core alone to choose from; most are as or more convenient than Spectrum.

As for prices dropping like a rock, well, odds are good IMO but if I were you I'd be prepared to rent for some time if you're looking for fire sales.

Posted 1 year ago #
Daddy Fat Stax
Member

Vancouver is home to numerous language schools, and while a lot of them home-stay, many of them "get together" and rent out the apartments downtown such as spectrum, sometimes with 4 or more students living in a one bedroom suite.

A friend of mine owns a one bedroom unit in one of the existing Spectrum towers, and has nothing but horror stories about the students and other "riff raff" that would constantly bother him with noise and garbage. He is currently renting it out, and living elsewhere.

Also to note, Spectrum 5 (COSMO) has recently broken ground, so be prepared for the nearby construction related obstructions and noise.

Posted 1 year ago #
shawnchong
Member

jesse and DFS... thanks again for the great info.

Initially, the abundance of Spectrum rentals on Craigslist got me to look at that area more... but yes, there are lots of other, better buildings nearby (Firenze, Espana?), so I will be looking there, first.

If we rented for one year, that would be a total of $18,000. So... if prices dropped by even that much in one year, renting or not renting would be pretty much equal. We don't mind renting for several years.

What attracted the wife and I to Spectrum was proximity to Skytrain and to T&T. We would also probably not need a car (which is a huge savings).

What area of downtown Vancouver would you guys suggest we rent in?

Posted 1 year ago #
jesse
Member

If you want to be close to T&T/Chinatown there are a few buildings in Tinseltown besides Spectrum. If you want proximity to Chinese food shopping the primary neighbourhoods to look in are Chinatown (obviously), Victoria/41st, Joyce/Kingsway, Fraser/49th, Metrotown in Burnaby, and pretty much all of central Richmond. Coquitlam Centre also has decent Chinese food shopping but may be a bit far away for you.

A friend of mine lives around Tinseltown and likes the convenience for getting out of downtown quickly for trips and to other parts of the city. I think there are a few car coop outlets in that neighbourhood as well.

DT peninsula is littered with buildings pretty much everywhere so hard to say which area suits you. If you see a rental listing, check out Google streetview for a sense of the immediate neighbourhood. Other neighbourhoods in Vancouver city proper popular with renters are Kitsilano, Fairview, Marpole, Cambie/16th, Kerrisdale, Commercial Drive, Joyce, Oakridge, Sunrise (Hastings/Renfrew), and Main/16th, to name a few.

Once you get settled into a city you can always move from there. I get the sense a year in Tinseltown isn't going to end up that bad for you.

Posted 1 year ago #
shawnchong
Member

Oohhh... thanks for the great list of Chinese Food Shopping neighbourhoods, jesse!

Yes, proximity to Chinese food is one of our primary factors. For example, we currently live in North York, Toronto (Yonge & 401), which is a great neighbourhood with grocery stores all around... but the closest non-nasty Chinese supermarket is at least a 10-minute drive away (in the middle of the night when there are no cars on the streets).

We also want to be close to the Skytrain in order not to have to have a car... and the car co-ops sound like a good idea!

I look on Google Maps and Bing Maps (great bird's eye view) constantly; everywhere looks great on it! It doesn't show the shopping cart being thrown from Spectrum, though.

So, you are encouraging us to try Tinseltown for a year? I think we will! Not Spectrum, though... I hate noisy neighbours.

Thanks again for the generous advice

Posted 1 year ago #
grant
Member

"If we rented for one year, that would be a total of $18,000. So... if prices dropped by even that much in one year, renting or not renting would be pretty much equal."

Better rethink that. On a basic $350,000 condo, the minimum you're paying is:

$200/mo - strata fees
$80/mo - taxes
$1000/mo - interest on mortgage
$20/mo - repairs

At *WORST* you're paying only $6000/yr in rent, after savings.

Posted 1 year ago #
jesse
Member

grant, howzat? I get $15,600 rent equivalent plus huge risk on equity.

Buy: $15,600 plus equity fluctuations, repair/special assessment risk, and depreciation
Rent: $18,000 with none of the above conditions.

Sounds like his hedging strategy is costing $2400/year at absolute maximum. Prices drop only 3% in a year and he's guaranteed to be net positive if he buys at that point. Maybe I don't understand what your $6K number means.

Posted 1 year ago #
grant
Member

jesse, i used some bad math there. I should have said:

"At *WORST* you're paying only $2400/yr in rent, after savings"

Posted 1 year ago #
shawnchong
Member

Those numbers sound excellent!

Owning vs. renting is a big issue here... but in many European countries, renting is the norm. I was even surprised to read somewhere that a couple in Denmark had put an addition onto the apartment that they had been renting for the past 15 years. Imagine that!

Posted 1 year ago #
patriotz
Member

Renters have a lot of rights in many of these countries. Really their tenancy is pretty much as secure as for a condo owner here. So it's rather like living in a condo, except you don't have to get in debt to get in. And they can't make you pay for repairs.

Frankly I feel that condo ownership combines the worst aspects of both renting and owning.

Posted 1 year ago #
Devore
Member

Condos really are a kind of a trap. And once the serviceable life of the building runs out (boom-time construction anyone?) the strata shares are eligible for what is basically land price minus tear-down costs.

Recall that the primary driver of condo developments was blowback resulting from heavy rent controls. Developers got fed up with not being able to turn profits on their construction, and simply started building for private ownership, downloading shoddy construction and building problems onto strata corporations and their shares. Buyers were less demanding too, and would pay an ownership premium far above what could be expected from a rental property. A most lucrative investment proposition for developers.

Even after the most onerous regulations were lifted, it took decades for the rental business model to become profitable enough to start becoming viable again.

Posted 1 year ago #
shawnchong
Member

Hmm... the Strata form of ownership is a fairly recent development. Co-op was the predominant form before that (and still is, in places like New York).

Evidence backs up what you two are talking about.

For example, in the ghetto parts of Toronto (Scarborough and North York, mainly), there are plenty of 70s/80s strata apartments for sale for around $100,000... whereas the same-size new would cost maybe $300,000 and up. However, the areas that they are in are definitely ghetto... with Coffee Time instead of Starbucks! No Frills instead of Loblaws. And oil stains on all the parking spots.

Some of the condo fees are double of the new, too.

Here are some examples via MLS:
W1926959
W1831186
E1850505
E1888092
E1906541

Posted 1 year ago #

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